Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
St. Sid

St Mirren Employees & 10000 Hours

Recommended Posts

If the club has managed to get itself into a situation where 60% of its funding comes from TV revenue then it probably deserves all that may be coming its way. I remember not so long ago we were in the 1st division trying to service a £2 million debt, yet we got out of that situation. So why are now hearing these apocalyptic warnings?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The scaremongering about the club being in administration within the next 4/5 months came from 10000 Hours

So you can redirect your "bawbags" to 10000 Hours as it is their rumour - not mine.

I think it came from div actually, not 10000hrs.

As for scaremongering, you do a lot more of it than 10000hrs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the club has managed to get itself into a situation where 60% of its funding comes from TV revenue then it probably deserves all that may be coming its way. I remember not so long ago we were in the 1st division trying to service a £2 million debt, yet we got out of that situation. So why are now hearing these apocalyptic warnings?

To repeat, again;

The potential problem is the sky revenue disappearing overnight, leaving us with a wage bill for this season that is budgeted on that money being there to pay for it.

IF that scenario came about, the club WOULD be in serious trouble.

This isn't scaremongering, it's not the result of bad management, its pure and simple common sense.

How likely it is to happen is anyone's guess but it remains possible, and for that reason it is prudent to sit and wait for the situation to become clearer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the club has managed to get itself into a situation where 60% of its funding comes from TV revenue then it probably deserves all that may be coming its way. I remember not so long ago we were in the 1st division trying to service a £2 million debt, yet we got out of that situation. So why are now hearing these apocalyptic warnings?

Same situation all the other 10 clubs in the SPL are in give or take a few percent either way, and if you want to look at any top league in Europe, take away the TV money and see how many clubs could survive without it.

When you look at the new deal in England, in comparison, SKY\ESPN are paying peanuts to our league, out of the petty cash really, so they might not even bother to rip up the contract just now, rather sit back and see if Scottish Football can come up with a better all round product.

It may transpire that the CIC membership don't buy the 52% just now, and 1 of the 2 "outside interested parties" either dive in with funding, or walk away, or the consortium have to sit tight on a shareholding with a diminished value - one thing the rangers debacle has proved is that in administration or liquidation, the fixed assets of any football ground, training centre(we don't actually own ours) etc. are worth hee-haw, so book values and reality are miles apart. It may transpire we can buy that 52% for less than £1,000,000 and have it paid off a lot quicker.

Whole different ball game may be about to unfold for top flight Scottish Football.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To repeat, again;

The potential problem is the sky revenue disappearing overnight, leaving us with a wage bill for this season that is budgeted on that money being there to pay for it.

IF that scenario came about, the club WOULD be in serious trouble.

This isn't scaremongering, it's not the result of bad management, its pure and simple common sense.

How likely it is to happen is anyone's guess but it remains possible, and for that reason it is prudent to sit and wait for the situation to become clearer.

Yet other similar clubs voting no to a newco and still investing in the playing side! Think we have a severe case of financial self preservation amongst the current BOD ! We seem to be the only prophets of doom in the SPL and I'm not liking it !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet other similar clubs voting no to a newco and still investing in the playing side! Think we have a severe case of financial self preservation amongst the current BOD ! We seem to be the only prophets of doom in the SPL and I'm not liking it !

Are you suggesting we should go the way of oldco and buy players we can't really afford and pay them wages we can't really afford ?

Other clubs may be looking at investing in the playing side but is that because they have released players from last season to free up wages ?, finished higher up the league than expected and received a larger payout from last season ? Qualified for Europe and will get a bonus from that ?

For all 'well have qualified for the champions league they announced at the end of the season that McCall's budget would be cut.

I'm fairly confident that 10000hours members will say no to newco but don't you think they deserve to know the entire facts of what that vote could mean and that the board and 10000hours would be morally wrong to ask for a vote without disclosing all the information available. This is how the CiC will work, decisions will have to be made after weighing them against the possible consequences/results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet other similar clubs voting no to a newco and still investing in the playing side! Think we have a severe case of financial self preservation amongst the current BOD ! We seem to be the only prophets of doom in the SPL and I'm not liking it !

Billy, sorry bud but this is bonkers talk! The reason R*ngers were liquidated, K*illie and the D*ng aren't far off and others are following closely behind is because they ended up with astronomically high wage bills in comparison to their income.

The answer for St Mirren is not to stick their fingers in their ears and sing "nah nah" very loudly. The correct course of action is to be up front an honest. Which is what is happening now and why the sale hasn't gone ahead.

And to reply to your post before this one, of 60% of St Mirren's income relies on TV and corporate sponsorship deals then that is simply that. "They should take what's coming to them" has nothing to do with it. I'm willing to bet that almost 100% of your household income comes from one source - job, benefits, pension etc.. Does that mean that you deserve all you get if your employer goes bust or the government changes the benefits entitlement or you pension scheme goes tits up?

St Mirren, as all clubs have, have budgeted the TV and sponsorship money into the general running of the club. Are you suggesting they shouldn't spend 60% of their income in case the company providing it say bye bye? That would be ridiculous and see us relegated immediately as we didn't have good enough players to compete.

In the same way that you would spend the large percentage of your household income that comes from one source, St Mirren have plans to spend they 60% of their income that comes from one type of source. It's naive to assume they'd do any different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To repeat, again;

The potential problem is the sky revenue disappearing overnight, leaving us with a wage bill for this season that is budgeted on that money being there to pay for it.

IF that scenario came about, the club WOULD be in serious trouble.

This isn't scaremongering, it's not the result of bad management, its pure and simple common sense.

How likely it is to happen is anyone's guess but it remains possible, and for that reason it is prudent to sit and wait for the situation to become clearer.

of course its bad managment they should not be bugeting for sky money .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

of course its bad managment they should not be bugeting for sky money .

Utter nonsense! So you're suggesting 60% of St Mirren's income sits in the bank unspent IN CASE Sky pull out? Or maybe they could spend it on flower beds for the area around the car park?

If we didn't budget it we'd be relegated, and not just to the first! Remove 60% of St Mirren's income and we're competing with 2nd Div sides. Oh and we can sack 90% of the non playing staff too as there'd be no money to pay them.

Elvis, you're the first to moan about players and poor performances when the team lose and now you are advocating a business model that will see us lose, most likely, every match next season and the one after, whilst stockpiling cash in the bank unspent!

Edited by ktf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its bad enough being a St Mirren fan at the moment with all this bollox going on. Imagine what it must be like being an employee of St Mirren Football Club. Are they being told that the club could be in administration in 4/5 months?

If they haven't and they log onto B&WArmy they're in for a shitty surprise. And what of the players that Danny Lennon might be looking to bring to the club who might take a look to see what is going on with the club?

Time for all this nonsense to be brought to a swift close and for St Mirren to get back to being a football club and not a plaything for folk Alan Sugar would have sacked long ago for failing to deliver.

Sid every SPL club bar 1 would be in administration if Sky pulled the plug out the blue - most sooner than we would be. This is not news to anyone who follows Scottish football. Perhaps it was news to you that every SPL club relies on the TV contract but to the vast majority of us it was common knowledge. Sky are undoubtedly going to play their cards close to their chest in all of this. They hold all the aces here and it's a cert that they will look to re-negotiate should / when the cheats are punished as they should be with a resounding NO vote to the Newco. I'm sure there would be financial carnage if they decided to walk away from Scottish football completely but that is highly unlikely given several clubs have already commited themselves to saying no to the Newco. I would have thought these clubs must have some inkling of how Sky are going to play it before nailing their colours to the mast so early.

You are scaremongering more than the joint statement was. Any company takeover is an uncertain time for employees and for you to start a thread emphasising that is of no help to anyone and is more likely to cause them further completely un called for fear and alarm. Stop it now ffs !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sid is now in full meltdown mode and the extent of his pop knowledge on finance, business and constituted organisations had been stretched to snapping point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I don't get is why would we be in administration? So the turnover drops fair enough. In any other walk of life there would be redundancies, an I could be wrong here bit is redundancy money not a grand for every year of service? Make the cuts and play boys. If everybody is in the same boat then what's the problem? Those who aren't willing to make cuts implode and Wed find ourselves ok. Or is standard employment law not applicable to football clubs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I don't get is why would we be in administration? So the turnover drops fair enough. In any other walk of life there would be redundancies, an I could be wrong here bit is redundancy money not a grand for every year of service? Make the cuts and play boys. If everybody is in the same boat then what's the problem? Those who aren't willing to make cuts implode and Wed find ourselves ok. Or is standard employment law not applicable to football clubs.

Redundancy pay depends on a lot of things but primarily length of service. Standard redundancy pay is not a fixed amount (i.e. not a grand) and is more along the lines of a weeks salary for each year worked but that is a bit of a rough guide but lets stop talking about redundancies and administration it's total reckless speculation.

Edited by Ayrshire Saints

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find the talk of potential administration quite bizarre to be honest, I thought we would be in a far better position to deal with this than most

I've now seen figures of 500k and 60% drop in income is this the same figure?

Bearing in mind we finished 8th last year that should be an extra 240k income over what was budgeted, we have always heard that we budget for 11th place.

What about ESPN? How much do they contribute to the tv deal, they never got OF games so why would we lose their share of the deal? Even taking that as 100k per team so leaving sky with 80% of cost.

On to the team, we have let go Mooy, Murray, Thomson, Smith, Hasselbaink, Tesselaar, McHugh,McShane and only brought in Guy, Parkin and Robertson. So if you match the 3 guys in with Thommo, tess and Hasselbaink in terms of wages, there must be 100k per year saved (on last year) between Murray, Smith, Mooy, McHugh and McShane. And at that I doubt the 3 guys in are on as much as those I've matched them with.

Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of the numbers but I don't think I've wrote anything that is wildly inaccurate

I would imagine if we were to face difficulties and possible administration then Dundee Utd, Aberdeen, Killie and possibly Motherwell will be absolutely f**ked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Redundancy pay depends on a lot of things but primarily length of service. Standard redundancy pay is not a fixed amount (i.e. not a grand) and is more along the lines of a weeks salary for each year worked but that is a bit of a rough guide but lets stop talking about redundancies and administration it's total reckless speculation.

It's also a maximum of £430 per week so were not talking major amounts here given that most players have only been here a few years.

The problem would be replacing the professional footballers with other professionals doing the same job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once again we get a spurious, ambiguous statement from 10,000 Hours and the clique of henchman then take the doubt it raises and build it into a worst case scenario scremongering exercise.

Last time it was two bidders and it very quickly got turned into one of the bidders being Angelo Massone - it took me seconds to check this out with Angelo Massone directly. He informed me that he has never even registered interest in St Mirren never mind made a bid. I've posted this many times now and it has never been challenged.

10000 Hours run in the opposite direction everytime their information is challenged. Instead the usual suspects appear with comments like "forum clown", or ktf's latest blubbering, "Sid is now in full meltdown mode and the extent of his pop knowledge on finance, business and constituted organisations had been stretched to snapping point."

Anyone can contact Massone to find out if he is bidding for St Mirren - he quite simply isn't. It took me seconds and he was only too happy to set the record straight. So why haven't Herald journalists done the same and shat all over the bollox scaremongering St Mirren fans are being subjected too. I believe we got soms shit excuses about breaching confidentiality last time round. There is no confidentiality to be broken - Massone has zero interest in St Mirren.

The latest bollox about going into administration is as low as St Mirren fans can go in terms of trying to scaremonger their fellow fans. Clubs in much worse financial positions than us are coming out and being clear that they will be voting no. Not us - we scaremonger about administration and fanny around with votes.....but of course none of the communication is from the club or even 10,000 Hours - they have conned fans into doing their dirty work.

It is clear and apparent that scumgers not being in the SPL does not suit 10000 Hours agenda. However, I hope that will be out of their hands - although I dread to think that St Mirren will be arguing against a no vote at the SPL meeting to discuss the implications next week. The one thing that is brutally obvious from this is that 10000 Hours cannot afford to takeover our club. For them to then get fans to start scaremongering that we will go into administration whether 10000 Hours is in control or not is a step too far.

10000 Hours won't come out with an official statement regarding administration. Until they do the administration bollox should be treated with all the credability of a St Sid signing rumour.

Is this going to be how the CIC runs. Puppet rumour mongers that scare the support into believing any old shite so that 10000 hours can manipulate a vote. Time these clowns were removed from the club and fans get back to supporting the club rather than trying to bullshit each other with scaremongering bollox.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It really is clear now that Sky hold the future of Scottish football in their hands. There are good comments on here about how this came to be but the fact is like it or lump it that is where we are now.

So what will sky do now?

The truth deniers will not be in the SPL next season and the old firm (1M audience) will be no more.

So if you were in charge of the sky contract what would you do?.....terminate it and risk a massive backlash of Scotts not only cancelling football but the whole package?...(this scenario seems likely to me) or create some positive PR by saying we are the good guys and will honour the contract for next season.

This will give us time to talk to them about the new future of our game ....Change the set up and try to offer a better product in the future. Oh and yes Mordor will rise in some shape or form and Sky or another tv provider will at some point get the OF bloodlust once again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once again we get a spurious, ambiguous statement from 10,000 Hours and the clique of henchman then take the doubt it raises and build it into a worst case scenario scremongering exercise.

Last time it was two bidders and it very quickly got turned into one of the bidders being Angelo Massone - it took me seconds to check this out with Angelo Massone directly. He informed me that he has never even registered interest in St Mirren never mind made a bid. I've posted this many times now and it has never been challenged.

10000 Hours run in the opposite direction everytime their information is challenged. Instead the usual suspects appear with comments like "forum clown", or ktf's latest blubbering, "Sid is now in full meltdown mode and the extent of his pop knowledge on finance, business and constituted organisations had been stretched to snapping point."

Anyone can contact Massone to find out if he is bidding for St Mirren - he quite simply isn't. It took me seconds and he was only too happy to set the record straight. So why haven't Herald journalists done the same and shat all over the bollox scaremongering St Mirren fans are being subjected too. I believe we got soms shit excuses about breaching confidentiality last time round. There is no confidentiality to be broken - Massone has zero interest in St Mirren.

The latest bollox about going into administration is as low as St Mirren fans can go in terms of trying to scaremonger their fellow fans. Clubs in much worse financial positions than us are coming out and being clear that they will be voting no. Not us - we scaremonger about administration and fanny around with votes.....but of course none of the communication is from the club or even 10,000 Hours - they have conned fans into doing their dirty work.

It is clear and apparent that scumgers not being in the SPL does not suit 10000 Hours agenda. However, I hope that will be out of their hands - although I dread to think that St Mirren will be arguing against a no vote at the SPL meeting to discuss the implications next week. The one thing that is brutally obvious from this is that 10000 Hours cannot afford to takeover our club. For them to then get fans to start scaremongering that we will go into administration whether 10000 Hours is in control or not is a step too far.

10000 Hours won't come out with an official statement regarding administration. Until they do the administration bollox should be treated with all the credability of a St Sid signing rumour.

Is this going to be how the CIC runs. Puppet rumour mongers that scare the support into believing any old shite so that 10000 hours can manipulate a vote. Time these clowns were removed from the club and fans get back to supporting the club rather than trying to bullshit each other with scaremongering bollox.

Your 100% right that it's scaremongering of the highest order Sid but be honest your opening post in this thread fanned those flames. EVERYONE no matter what their take on the sale of the club MUST stop all the speculation and scaremongering as it does no one any good and paints us as a club in a poor light. Some don't agree the CiC/Co-Op is the way forward and others do - that's life in a nut-shell but neither party should be using it to peddle some of the nonsense being spouted over the last few days and I think if you are honest Sid you will admit your opening post did not help matters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your 100% right that it's scaremongering of the highest order Sid but be honest your opening post in this thread fanned those flames. EVERYONE no matter what their take on the sale of the club MUST stop all the speculation and scaremongering as it does no one any good and paints us as a club in a poor light. Some don't agree the CiC/Co-Op is the way forward and others do - that's life in a nut-shell but neither party should be using it to peddle some of the nonsense being spouted over the last few days and I think if you are honest Sid you will admit your opening post did not help matters.

Ayrshire Saint, it is a real shame that 10000 Hours have used the fans in this way. They won't put any of their rumours in writing - they just use supporters to spread their bile in order to try and get control of the club.

Put yourself in the position of being an employee of the club. I don't know were you work but I would imagine you wouldn't be too happy if someone trying to buy your company started spreading rumours that the company you work for is going to be going into administration - in fact it is actually against the law to do that. If 10000 Hours were to put make this rumour official shareholders would be within their rights to sue them.

Like I said in my opening post - it is bad enough being a supporter whilst all this nonsense is going on - imagine being an employee at the club right now.

All this 10000 hours should be brough to a close now. 100% against it now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The latest bollox about going into administration is as low as St Mirren fans can go in terms of trying to scaremonger their fellow fans. Clubs in much worse financial positions than us are coming out and being clear that they will be voting no. Not us - we scaremonger about administration and fanny around with votes.....but of course none of the communication is from the club or even 10,000 Hours - they have conned fans into doing their dirty work.

Let's clarify this again. It seems you have misunderstood what was said and have conveniently ignored the previous two dozen explanations I have given.

I will make this as simple as possible for you John and you can tell me which bits you disagree with.

60% of the current revenue which comes into St.Mirren comes in the form of Television and SPL sponsorship money.

Sky have a termination clause in their contract which they can exercise if either Rangers or Celtic cease to be in the SPL.

Rangers membership of the SPL is the subject of a club vote on 4th July.

It is widely anticpated that they will not be voted back into the SPL. And rightly so in my personal opinion.

This then means Sky COULD, POSSIBLY terminate the current television deal.

IF that happend, IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF it happened, then St.Mirren would be in serious trouble.

We have a wage bill for this season that is budgeted based on the TV and Sponsorship money being there.

If it is not there we have a problem. We will be spending more money than is coming in.

We cannot borrow money to bridge that gap, as nobody will lend us it.

This is an IF scenario. I did not say the club would go into administration if Rangers were voted into the SPL. I have NEVER said that.

If you cannot comprehend the above then I cannot help you any more. It's simple common sense and whilst it can be argued that is unlikely to happen the truth of the matter is that it IS possible and it COULD happen. For that reason it is not prudent for us or the club to close the deal and take over the running of the club, nor is it financially possible as the funder will not, for obvious reasons, lend us money to buy a business that COULD be in such serious trouble in just a few months time.

This is ALL about IF's, it is is ALL about speculating how we would deal with various scenarios that unfold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Put yourself in the position of being an employee of the club. I don't know were you work but I would imagine you wouldn't be too happy if someone trying to buy your company started spreading rumours that the company you work for is going to be going into administration - in fact it is actually against the law to do that. If 10000 Hours were to put make this rumour official shareholders would be within their rights to sue them.

It is you who is spreading this rumour John, every other post you are doing is mentioning it and taking it completely out of context.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone can contact Massone to find out if he is bidding for St Mirren - he quite simply isn't. It took me seconds and he was only too happy to set the record straight.

REA stated quite categorically at the last meeting that Massone wasn't involved in any bids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's clarify this again. It seems you have misunderstood what was said and have conveniently ignored the previous two dozen explanations I have given.

I will make this as simple as possible for you John and you can tell me which bits you disagree with.

60% of the current revenue which comes into St.Mirren comes in the form of Television and SPL sponsorship money.

Sky have a termination clause in their contract which they can exercise if either Rangers or Celtic cease to be in the SPL.

Rangers membership of the SPL is the subject of a club vote on 4th July.

It is widely anticpated that they will not be voted back into the SPL. And rightly so in my personal opinion.

This then means Sky COULD, POSSIBLY terminate the current television deal.

IF that happend, IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF it happened, then St.Mirren would be in serious trouble.

We have a wage bill for this season that is budgeted based on the TV and Sponsorship money being there.

If it is not there we have a problem. We will be spending more money than is coming in.

We cannot borrow money to bridge that gap, as nobody will lend us it.

This is an IF scenario. I did not say the club would go into administration if Rangers were voted into the SPL. I have NEVER said that.

If you cannot comprehend the above then I cannot help you any more. It's simple common sense and whilst it can be argued that is unlikely to happen the truth of the matter is that it IS possible and it COULD happen. For that reason it is not prudent for us or the club to close the deal and take over the running of the club, nor is it financially possible as the funder will not, for obvious reasons, lend us money to buy a business that COULD be in such serious trouble in just a few months time.

This is ALL about IF's, it is is ALL about speculating how we would deal with various scenarios that unfold.

This post contains too many FACTS in it.......Readers beware

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could one of the solutions to this potential SKY financial armageddon be that the consortium and 10000hours agree a compromise where the consortium retain their 52% shareholding for another year, but allow 10000hours to kick-off all the new ventures including developing the void and the membership fees start now and with all those new revenue streams in place can offset any TV, hospitality and advertising losses?

Just an idea to help bridge the gap in what may be a significant loss of revenue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking forward to reforming and playing in the 3rd division. The SPL project has failed, and failed disasterously. Concentrating the money into the hands of a small group of clubs has led those clubs (including ours by the look of it) to become lazy and complacent.

If we were to liquidate how feasible would it be for a fans group to purchase the assets of the club? It could lead to proper democratic fan ownership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...