Alternative Fan Buy Out

[ck1]

What would be the options for a fan buy out without 10000hrs, would or could it work????

Some will say well we have had three years to do it, but most have went along with the 10000hrs option. But the conditions have changed on numerous occasions and now with the Rangers situation things are still up in the air.

Could the fans make a bid for the club now with the value of the share price not as high as it would have been 6 months ago ,bring SMISA on board GLS and all other share holders and concentrate on running a football club.

For the record I have signed up for the CIC……But open to options and a discussion !

[div]

What would be the options for a fan buy out without 10000hrs, would or could it work????

Some will say well we have had three years to do it, but most have went along with the 10000hrs option. But the conditions have changed on numerous occasions and now with the Rangers situation things are still up in the air.

Could the fans make a bid for the club now with the value of the share price not as high as it would have been 6 months ago ,bring SMISA on board GLS and all other share holders and concentrate on running a football club.

For the record I have signed up for the CIC……But open to options and a discussion !

If someone can come up with a sensible way of raising circa 1.5 million quid then the selling consortium would speak to them.

[ck1]

However is the club now worth £1.5 million now with all that's happening with Scottish Football at the moment ?

[div]

Cash Converters or Wonga must surelly stand a chance after Dickie's failed attempts ?

I'm not sure they would lend you £1.5m but you can always ask them.

The current WONGA interest rate is 4214% which doesn't compare very well with the 8% Richard has worked on. Without security.

Still, I'm sure you are only kidding you rascal.

[Stuart Dickson]

However is the club now worth £1.5 million now with all that's happening with Scottish Football at the moment ?

£3m....not £1.5m. The £1.5m - or whatever it is - bid by 10000hours is only for 52% of the club.

To be honest having had time to digest the information as has been disclosed by GLS and by Motherwell FC tonight I think 10000hours have been very prudent - even if it is only because of conditions attached to the BII Loan. It would be bonkers to hand the selling consortium any money at all until the financial projections can be nailed down.

The fact that up to 60% of the clubs turnover could go in the next few months and the revelation that this will put the club in severe financial difficulty doesn't make me want to send the consortium in to vote yes to a Newco. Instead it makes me more adamant that the Board of Directors should vote No. A far more prudent position for 10000hours right now would be for them to bide their time and if the club does go into administration then they would be ideally placed to rescue the club at a much lower price.

[davidg]

Actually agree with Stu.

Will the other bidders still be prepared to part with £1.5m for the 52% if the club lost 60% of it's revenue?

Don't think so.

[Drew]

£3m....not £1.5m. The £1.5m - or whatever it is - bid by 10000hours is only for 52% of the club.

To be honest having had time to digest the information as has been disclosed by GLS and by Motherwell FC tonight I think 10000hours have been very prudent - even if it is only because of conditions attached to the BII Loan. It would be bonkers to hand the selling consortium any money at all until the financial projections can be nailed down.

The fact that up to 60% of the clubs turnover could go in the next few months and the revelation that this will put the club in severe financial difficulty doesn't make me want to send the consortium in to vote yes to a Newco. Instead it makes me more adamant that the Board of Directors should vote No. A far more prudent position for 10000hours right now would be for them to bide their time and if the club does go into administration then they would be ideally placed to rescue the club at a much lower price.

100% spot on.

[animal]

£3m....not £1.5m. The £1.5m - or whatever it is - bid by 10000hours is only for 52% of the club.

To be honest having had time to digest the information as has been disclosed by GLS and by Motherwell FC tonight I think 10000hours have been very prudent - even if it is only because of conditions attached to the BII Loan. It would be bonkers to hand the selling consortium any money at all until the financial projections can be nailed down.

The fact that up to 60% of the clubs turnover could go in the next few months and the revelation that this will put the club in severe financial difficulty doesn't make me want to send the consortium in to vote yes to a Newco. Instead it makes me more adamant that the Board of Directors should vote No. A far more prudent position for 10000hours right now would be for them to bide their time and if the club does go into administration then they would be ideally placed to rescue the club at a much lower price.

Let me get this right Mr. Dickson and friends. You want to put our Club into adminstration so that 10,000,000,000 hours and their friends can pick it up for very little. I have heard it all now.

You all may be interested to know that a possible ray of hope will be announced soon. Early days, but perhaps if it gets agreement, a chance to put an end to this two years of farce and have real community ownership of the Club.

Watch out for a story in the newspapers in the next 48 hours.

[Stuart Dickson]

Let me get this right Mr. Dickson and friends. You want to put our Club into adminstration so that 10,000,000,000 hours and their friends can pick it up for very little. I have heard it all now.

You all may be interested to know that a possible ray of hope will be announced soon. Early days, but perhaps if it gets agreement, a chance to put an end to this two years of farce and have real community ownership of the Club.

Watch out for a story in the newspapers in the next 48 hours.

It would appear administration is inevitable if the SPL lose TV rights and sponsorship according to the reports from Motherwell and from St Mirren. Even if those TV and sponsorship deals remain in place the loss of *Rangers* to the SPL will, it appears, cause the club financial hardship. No sensible businessman would or should be looking to buy the club at this moment in time. Any buyer coming in right now is either a lunatic, a kamikaze pilot or just criminally insane and you would have to question their capabilities in business. Given those circumstances I would have thought that St Mirren fans would be far happier with the idea that instead of letting the consortium profit from their poor judgement over this fiasco, that it would be better if the revenue was there to bail the club out of administration when the inevitable happens.

I look forward to seeing who this "ray of hope" will be. Last time you got excited about a prospective buyer it was Ken McGeogh with his Ticketus proposal..... Is it Charles Green this time?

Edited June 23, 2012 by Stuart Dickson

[ck1]

My post was meant to be an alternative to the 10000hrs bid ......just a fans bid with no attachments or baggage!

[Stuart Dickson]

My post was meant to be an alternative to the 10000hrs bid ......just a fans bid with no attachments or baggage!

CK1 I think Div answered it with the second post on this thread. If a fans group is capable of raising the finance against the current financial background, and it can find a way to make the football club viable then I'm sure the proposal would be welcomed by the selling consortia. I wouldn't be in the remotest bit interested because a fans buyout wouldn't retain the elements of the CIC bid that appeals to me as someone who is not a St Mirren fan but that's not to say that if someone wants to take it on it shouldn't be investigated.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Stuart Dickson

[animal]

It would appear administration is inevitable if the SPL lose TV rights and sponsorship according to the reports from Motherwell and from St Mirren. Even if those TV and sponsorship deals remain in place the loss of *Rangers* to the SPL will, it appears, cause the club financial hardship. No sensible businessman would or should be looking to buy the club at this moment in time. Any buyer coming in right now is either a lunatic, a kamikaze pilot or just criminally insane and you would have to question their capabilities in business. Given those circumstances I would have thought that St Mirren fans would be far happier with the idea that instead of letting the consortium profit from their poor judgement over this fiasco, that it would be better if the revenue was there to bail the club out of administration when the inevitable happens.

I look forward to seeing who this "ray of hope" will be. Last time you got excited about a prospective buyer it was Ken McGeogh with his Ticketus proposal..... Is it Charles Green this time?

I was never 'excited' by Ken's proposal. No it's not Mr. Green.

[Liverpool Bud]

Could we maybe not just put the 11 grand raised monthly on the euro lottery until the big win came in and then buy the club apply to join the EP(HELL)!

[div]

Let's have a wild stab in the dark here about what this new plan might be ?

Based on animals previous posts and what has been suggested above Id put my money on a proposal by a local councillor that suggests the local council table an offer to buy the majority shareholding of St.Mirren.

Am I close Animal ?

Interesting to see the detail before commenting further, but as a local constituent I can't really see how the council could consider buying a football club at a time when public services are being cut to the bone.

I might be totally wrong in my assumption of course but sure Animal will let me know.

[St. Sid]

If someone can come up with a sensible way of raising circa 1.5 million quid then the selling consortium would speak to them.

10000 Hours have failed to come up with a sensible way of raising £1.5Million and the consortium are speaking to them.

[div]

That's your opinion John and you are entitled to it.

Crowd sourced funding tied to an affordable unsecured loan from a social investment fund and topped up with capital from local businesses seems sensible enough to me.

[One Anonymous User]

What would be the options for a fan buy out without 10000hrs, would or could it work????

Some will say well we have had three years to do it, but most have went along with the 10000hrs option. But the conditions have changed on numerous occasions and now with the Rangers situation things are still up in the air.

Could the fans make a bid for the club now with the value of the share price not as high as it would have been 6 months ago ,bring SMISA on board GLS and all other share holders and concentrate on running a football club.

This is something that I suggested a few weeks ago! I haven't signed up for the CIC, like the majority of St Mirren fans and those with businesses who are not convinced either. But if there was an alternative, without REA and co, then I would be in, SMISA might come back in and the local businesses too! Just a thought!

Edited June 24, 2012 by One Anonymous User

[St. Sid]

That's your opinion John and you are entitled to it.

Crowd sourced funding tied to an affordable unsecured loan from a social investment fund and topped up with capital from local businesses seems sensible enough to me.

Div, if the numbers you posted yesterday are genuine then the latest version of the CIC has failed. They are buried in amongst a lot of abusive posts from the likes of ktf now. It might be an idea to publish the numbers in a new thread and also on the 10000 Hours home page where the counters were before. Are fans not entitled to know about the progress of the plan you have outlined or are we 10000 Hours still playing games with critical information? We'll only shout about detail that suits 10000 Hours and we'll hide the bad news / risks.

[Kendo]

I laughed out loud when I saw this thread posted, who would front it, Sid or that side kick dick Slexia.

If they get half the grief that they have dished out it would be interesting to watch.

I am afraid to tell the good Buddies on here the the CIC are the only fan based buy out in town, all the noise you hear is coming from professional critics that are prepared to do nothing else other than what they are good at ..................... crticise everything that others are doing.

Either get behind the CIC, shut up or start your own buy out. We need to stick together, Scottish football is in one almighty mess get behind the people who are trying to do what they believe is in the best interests of our club.

[St. Sid]

I laughed out loud when I saw this thread posted, who would front it, Sid or that side kick dick Slexia.

If they get half the grief that they have dished out it would be interesting to watch.

I am afraid to tell the good Buddies on here the the CIC are the only fan based buy out in town, all the noise you hear is coming from professional critics that are prepared to do nothing else other than what they are good at ..................... crticise everything that others are doing.

Either get behind the CIC, shut up or start your own buy out. We need to stick together, Scottish football is in one almighty mess get behind the people who are trying to do what they believe is in the best interests of our club.

Another head in the sand see no eveil hear no evil speak no evil post. It doesn't matter if there is another bid or not. The club is at risk and it is not me or whoever lie behind the animal-type aliases that are saying that - it is 10000 Hours, the consortium and their last remaining funder.

What is being said is that if the worst comes to the worst and Div's doomsday scenario comes into play in a few months - all his bollox not mine - do we really want all the fans spare cash locked up in £1.5Million of unecessary debt with nothing left available to bail the club out as it heads into administration?

SMiSA offered to hold the CIC subs in trust until the deal was done. That would have given us over 2 years worth of subs. I think we were sitting at around £6,000 a month back then. We would have had around £150,000.00 sitting in the SMiSA bank account good to go. We could have made a decision to ring fence that money in the CIC for cashflow problems for the CIC instead of handing it over to the consortium. That plus the £100K 10000 Hours tells us they have allocated for cashflow issues would have given us a £250,000.00 firefighting fund to help see us through the SKY / SPL sponsor crisis.

10000 Hours for whatever reason appear to have knocked that offer from SMiSA back.

The last thing fans should be doing at this point in time if there is a threat to our club is signing up to service a debt, that is looking dodgier in terms of how it is financed every time 10000 Hours releases a statement.

[steve_the_saint]

Another head in the sand see no eveil hear no evil speak no evil post. It doesn't matter if there is another bid or not. The club is at risk and it is not me or whoever lie behind the animal-type aliases that are saying that - it is 10000 Hours, the consortium and their last remaining funder.

What is being said is that if the worst comes to the worst and Div's doomsday scenario comes into play in a few months - all his bollox not mine - do we really want all the fans spare cash locked up in £1.5Million of unecessary debt with nothing left available to bail the club out as it heads into administration?

SMiSA offered to hold the CIC subs in trust until the deal was done. That would have given us over 2 years worth of subs. I think we were sitting at around £6,000 a month back then. We would have had around £150,000.00 sitting in the SMiSA bank account good to go. We could have made a decision to ring fence that money in the CIC for cashflow problems for the CIC instead of handing it over to the consortium. That plus the £100K 10000 Hours tells us they have allocated for cashflow issues would have given us a £250,000.00 firefighting fund to help see us through the SKY / SPL sponsor crisis.

10000 Hours for whatever reason appear to have knocked that offer from SMiSA back.

The last thing fans should be doing at this point in time if there is a threat to our club is signing up to service a debt, that is looking dodgier in terms of how it is financed every time 10000 Hours releases a statement.

Divs potential Doomsday Scenario was the exact reason why the deal has been put on hold for the time being and why it wouldn't go through if it did happen, meaning there would be no fans money tied up in £1.5m (not strictly true that figure, is it Sid?) of debt!!

And I've been following this closely, but don't recall SMISA ever offering to keep the subs in trust until the deal went through! And even if this was the case, I'm sure it would be on the basis that all SMISA members get to see the detailed business plan, which upon being made public would allow competitors to copy it and rendering the CIC bid useless!

More great work there Sid!

[div]

I haven't signed up for the CIC, like the majority of St Mirren fans and those with businesses who are not convinced either. But if there was an alternative, without REA and co, then I would be in, SMISA might come back in and the local businesses too! Just a thought!

Over 1,000 fans have currently backed the 10000Hours bid. Personally I'd say that is a decent start, especially considering we can't use the club themselves to promote what we are trying to do.

Div, if the numbers you posted yesterday are genuine then the latest version of the CIC has failed. They are buried in amongst a lot of abusive posts from the likes of ktf now. It might be an idea to publish the numbers in a new thread and also on the 10000 Hours home page where the counters were before. Are fans not entitled to know about the progress of the plan you have outlined or are we 10000 Hours still playing games with critical information? We'll only shout about detail that suits 10000 Hours and we'll hide the bad news / risks.

I was asked to provide the numbers, and I provided the numbers. It is true that we have failed to hit the numbers required to fund a £1.5m bid but we were not too far away and we submitted a credible and sustainable bid based on what we could afford to pay back. It's harsh in the extreme to label the whole thing a failure when we have smashed one subscription target by 150%.

Another head in the sand see no eveil hear no evil speak no evil post. It doesn't matter if there is another bid or not. The club is at risk and it is not me or whoever lie behind the animal-type aliases that are saying that - it is 10000 Hours, the consortium and their last remaining funder.

What is being said is that if the worst comes to the worst and Div's doomsday scenario comes into play in a few months - all his bollox not mine - do we really want all the fans spare cash locked up in £1.5Million of unecessary debt with nothing left available to bail the club out as it heads into administration?

SMiSA offered to hold the CIC subs in trust until the deal was done. That would have given us over 2 years worth of subs. I think we were sitting at around £6,000 a month back then. We would have had around £150,000.00 sitting in the SMiSA bank account good to go. We could have made a decision to ring fence that money in the CIC for cashflow problems for the CIC instead of handing it over to the consortium. That plus the £100K 10000 Hours tells us they have allocated for cashflow issues would have given us a £250,000.00 firefighting fund to help see us through the SKY / SPL sponsor crisis.

10000 Hours for whatever reason appear to have knocked that offer from SMiSA back.

The last thing fans should be doing at this point in time if there is a threat to our club is signing up to service a debt, that is looking dodgier in terms of how it is financed every time 10000 Hours releases a statement.

So you agree that 10000Hours and the selling consortium have been entirely prudent in the decision that was taken last Thursday. Good !

[beyond our ken]

If the inner sanctum of 10000 hours are bandying around phrases like "crowd sourced funding" then it's most likely a good thing they dont have legs left to get their bid over the line.

When people resort to using hackneyed buzz-phrases when describing other humans then it usually means at least one of two things

1. they have little imagination and are trying to look smart by inventing their own little language

2. they have no regard for the people they are talking about.

Just so you all know, the supporters of St Mirren, the club you all believe you are fit to control, are not a "crowd". They are a body of passionate people who care about the institution of the club

[St. Sid]

Divs potential Doomsday Scenario was the exact reason why the deal has been put on hold for the time being and why it wouldn't go through if it did happen, meaning there would be no fans money tied up in £1.5m (not strictly true that figure, is it Sid?) of debt!!

And I've been following this closely, but don't recall SMISA ever offering to keep the subs in trust until the deal went through! And even if this was the case, I'm sure it would be on the basis that all SMISA members get to see the detailed business plan, which upon being made public would allow competitors to copy it and rendering the CIC bid useless!

More great work there Sid!

More head in the sand...everybody is wrong if they don't roll over and let 10000 Hours rub their belly nonsense. Can't you see that you are merely trying to rubbish every point / concern that is raised now. You are not delviering any new information to the support. All people are seeing is CIC-supporters behaving like other supporters concerns don't matter.

It was SMiSA that spoke of the offer to hold money in trust - from what they said at the meeting this offer was made way back at the beginning when they were engaged with 10000 Hours - before they were sidelined when they were no longer required to tick a box for the £750,000.00 grant funding. I don't know if there were any dependencies placed on that offer - I am not a member of SMiSA let alone a committee member. I was merely pointing out the difference between fans setting money aside to be used to help the club survive a crisis versus fans signing up to service a debt leaving the club at risk.

You have made some big claims about SMiSA in your post Steve. Read this statement you made in your post and see if you can recognise the flaw in your statement:

And I've been following this closely, but don't recall SMISA ever offering to keep the subs in trust until the deal went through! And even if this was the case, I'm sure it would be on the basis that all SMISA members get to see the detailed business plan, which upon being made public would allow competitors to copy it and rendering the CIC bid useless!

1. You claim to have been following this closely.

2. You don't recall SMiSA ever offering to keep the subs in trust until the deal went though (were you at the last public meeting or the one before it when this was mentioned?)

3. You claim to be SURE that the would be a dependency on SMiSA getting to see a detailed business plan

All three points manage to contradict themselves and are fairly typical of the bollox behaviour of CIC supporters. There isn't an actuall valid point in your entire post. You are passing comment on something that you don't recall and then taking something that you don't even remember and adding a condition to it on behalf of SMiSA.

It is the same old shite. Bad news gets delivered from 10000 Hours via its unofficial online team and the concerns raised get rubbished not with information but with spurious shite like that contained in the post above.

The reality is that we now have a conditional offer because 10000 Hours do not have the ability to steer St Mirren Football Club through a revenue crisis. That risk is about SMFC getting f"k'd not 10000 Hours. We are repeatedly told through soundbites that the club is not at risk. Let's see some figures around the risk to St Mirren Football Club, because that is exactly what the conditional offer is all about.

[steve_the_saint]

If the inner sanctum of 10000 hours are bandying around phrases like "crowd sourced funding" then it's most likely a good thing they dont have legs left to get their bid over the line.

When people resort to using hackneyed buzz-phrases when describing other humans then it usually means at least one of two things

1. they have little imagination and are trying to look smart by inventing their own little language

2. they have no regard for the people they are talking about.

Just so you all know, the supporters of St Mirren, the club you all believe you are fit to control, are not a "crowd". They are a body of passionate people who care about the institution of the club

Crowd funding or crowdfunding (alternately crowd financing, equity crowdfunding, or hyper funding) describes the collective cooperation, attention and trust by people who network and pool their money and other resources together, usually via the internet, to support efforts initiated by other people or organizations.^{[citation needed]} Crowd funding occurs for any variety of purposes,^[1] from disaster relief to citizen journalism to artists seeking support from fans, to political campaigns, to funding a startup company, movie ^[2] or small business^[3] or creating free software.

.....

The United States based company ArtistShare (2000/2001) is documented as being the first crowdfunding website for music.....

So it's been around since 2000 or earlier and wasn't invented by 10000hours trying to look smart.

And please take notice of the phrase "collective cooperation" in the description above, to see that there is no "they". Once you sign up for 10khours it becomes "we" not "they".

It seems like you're living in the dark ages and have no ambition to help move the club forward.