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"no To Newco" Vote

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Has there been any final word on when and to whom the questionnaire on the "No To Newco" consultation will be issued?

I did read somewhere on this forum that we could possibly expect it on Sunday, but no later than Monday and that it will be issued by the Board rather than the CIC, which differs from the joint statement issued on Thursday.

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I'm sorry but these questions are loaded and quite frankly very disappointing. I had expected information upon which to base my decision, not baseless rhetoric that allows no-one to make an informed decision.

I am abstaining from this vote.

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Agree - terrible questions, and turned into an attempt to get more funding for the CIC.

Surprised there isn't a question 'Would you vote No to a Newco Rangers even if meant nuclear armageddon and the end of civilisation'.

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Thanks Div.

Is it just me or is question 3 a loaded question with the use of "plummet" and "massive revenue shortage" in its wording without actually indicating what the before and after scenarios or financial projections are.

I have absolutely no wish to appear as a naysayer but that question cannot be answered in the context in which it is currently presented.

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Looks like I am not the only one seeing these for the first time.

Communication outage from CIC?

They were published on the website last night, I am preparing an email just now to go out to members telling them about the draft questions and also preparing the survey itself which will go out later today.

Sadly I have two businesses to run on top of this, both of which were badly neglected last week as I spent so much time working on 10000Hours stuff.

This week I can't move as quickly as I would like to but I am doing my best to get the information out there.

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Div

That comment is not intended as a criticism of you personally as I know from my time lurking here and since I joined that you don't have enough hours in the day to pander to everyone that wants some of your time.

Surely it is not beyond the wit of others in the CIC to send out an e-mail though.

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My View for what it’s worth,

Back to basics:

A principle should be established that a new company post liquidation should not be allowed direct entry to the top tier of Scottish Football.

An application (were it to be made) should be to the lowest entry point of the league structure of Scottish football.

At this stage that is the third division.

I would vote no for admittance of a newco to the existing SPL. (Circumstances of liquidation in case of severe debt)

If a company is completely solvent and carrying no debt but is being restructured then these are very different circumstances.

If the latter being the case then transfer of shares should allow continuity within the same league structure.

The rules should be drafted to cover both potential eventualities in future.

Having said that I would hope that the whole of Scottish football can now restructure and expand under 1 governing body.

It’s time for the SPL to be disbanded and all control and governance to rest with the SFA.

Hoping this helps you make a decision on behalf of St Mirren Football Club.

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Speaking hypothetically, should the scenario envisaged under question 2 come to pass could the solution considered under question 4 not apply there also.

The key to all of this is information. I have said before that there are so many variables here that I defy anyone to give accurate projections on the various potential outcomes.

These are extraordinary times which require extraordinary measures. The club needs to be as open and honest with the fans regarding financial details as they consider appropriate in order to make the most reasoned decision on these points.

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Surely it is not beyond the wit of others in the CIC to send out an e-mail though.

I don't trust the rest of them to send emails out !

You may recall the 7 copies of one email that was sent out previously. That was the last one they sent themselves whistling.gif

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Loaded questions? Yes, but when was the last time you saw a survey that wasn't. The questions are easy to answer for me.

1. No

2. No - Our team would cope

3. No - Our club would survive

4. Yes - I would do all I can if ST Mirren were in trouble.

I see these answers as no brainers, others may have different views.Each there own.

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At the risk of my initial reply being deemed flippant - I'm with ktf on this. I want information on which to base my vote.

Sky - are we talking about them walking away from Scotland completely?

Sky - are we talking about a reduced deal?

Sky - if a reduced overall deal, is it distributed more evenly?

Visiting Rangers fans loss - are we 'budgeting' on us being bottom 6 or top 6 - this affects how often we would lose their income.

Home fans - are we factoring in Saints fans who currently stay away when the OF visit?

Club 12 fans - are we making guesstimates on visiting Dundee fans off-setting the loss?

Sponsors - do we know if they will 'walk away' from the SPL unless 'Rangers' are in it?

... We know nothing, are being told nothing, and it isn't right.

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I would like this consultation to also cover the reports that a potential deal is being brokered involving the SPL and the SFL to relegate/parachute/dump Newco RFC into SFL1/new SPL2 as some sort of "compromise".

This is as scandalous as the notion of them "carrying on" in the SPL - if reports are true, the game will potentially be restructured entirely to accomodate them! Like most fans I am wholly supportive of changes to the structure of Scottish Fitba but it must be done for the right reasons, not as some sort of political compromise to appease a TV vendor.

Rangers cheated financially on an industrial scale to the extent that they ran themselves out of existence. They are starting again from scratch, and as such any admission of them into our game should be at the bottom of the existing structure - end of story. Anything else is rigging the game for financial gain.

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FFS, Rangers DO NOT EXIST in this context.

It will be a new company, so they cannot be allowed back in. They've never been in. How hard a concept is this to grasp?

I won't be responding to these questions. At least Motherwell tried to provide some figures/projections.

If St Mirren cannot adapt to the changing financial climate based on a decision that would safeguard the fundamental integrity of the game in Scotland, then Hell mend them (us....depending on your take).

Edited by Drew

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Sorry Poz, I don't see the relevance of how the reduction in revenue comes about.

Does it really matter if its sponsors, sky, or season ticket sales.

I think that all but the most blinded individuals would accept that there will be a reduction its just what are we prepared to accept as possible effects should the reduction be at certain levels.

I think if we/anyone knew the exact reduction there would only be one question/scenario.

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At the risk of my initial reply being deemed flippant - I'm with ktf on this. I want information on which to base my vote.

Sky - are we talking about them walking away from Scotland completely?

Sky - are we talking about a reduced deal?

Sky - if a reduced overall deal, is it distributed more evenly?

Visiting Rangers fans loss - are we 'budgeting' on us being bottom 6 or top 6 - this affects how often we would lose their income.

Home fans - are we factoring in Saints fans who currently stay away when the OF visit?

Club 12 fans - are we making guesstimates on visiting Dundee fans off-setting the loss?

Sponsors - do we know if they will 'walk away' from the SPL unless 'Rangers' are in it?

... We know nothing, are being told nothing, and it isn't right.

Poz,

Some of the information you list needs to come from the SFA/SPL and they may not even have much on those yet (although you would like to think that they have more than they are going public with). The rest needs to come from the club/s where fans are being consulted on these issues.

I've lost track of which meetings come before which, but IIRC the one this week is for clubs to discuss reconstruction and the level at which the zombies might be allowed entry with the actual vote taking place at a later date based upon the information gathered from the meeting. If that is correct would this vote not be better after the meeting this week when more information will be available? or am I talking nonsense?

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I'm getting sick of this prevarication and fudging. Other clubs have had the balls to make a public statement of intention over this. St Mirren/10000Hours fannying about over the issue is becoming embarrassing, frankly.

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Are we getting Financial projections as to what each stage means? How many more fans, etc, are required to break even in the event of a £500k hole in the budget? You can't ask questions like that with supporting documentation!

Question 3 in particular is a stinker! It's a bit like asking "will you vote Labour if it means a slow death and poverty for yourself?"

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Guest somner9

Never mind the 10000 hours/CiC hyped up, scaremongering, lets get more cash out of the members type questions.

Other clubs have taken the communication and feelings of their fans into consideration and opted to vote "no". Our board need to grow a pair and do likewise or forever be seen as a bunch of self-interested fudgers.

Was there a vote by the club given to the fans on deciding the preferred bidder for 52% in SMFC???? no there feckin wasn't and its pathetic that 10000 hours are all over this now.

the board should make the statement as they are the custodians of the club at the present. "No to Newco" it's that simple.

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FFS, Rangers DO NOT EXIST in this context.

It will be a new company, so they cannot be allowed back in. They've never been in. How hard a concept is this to grasp?

I won't be responding to these questions. At least Motherwell tried to provide some figures/projections.

If St Mirren cannot adapt to the changing financial climate based on a decision that would safeguard the fundamental integrity of the game in Scotland, then Hell mend them (us....depending on your take).

I agree the questions aren't all we might hope.

No reason note to vote though. Obviously 3 no's keeps the Newco out regardless.

I think the club and 10000Hours are coming close to a PR disaster with this. And at this sensitive stage of the takeover I'm not sure a PR disaster is something they can afford.

Edited by ds10

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I've lurked here since the dark hazy beginnings of this site ... and never felt the need to register and post.

However today i felt the urge.

1. No

2. No - Our team would indeed cope

3. No - Our club would survive & cut the cloth accordingly, as we've done it before when the proverbial hit the fan

4. Yes - I would do all I can if St Mirren were in buggered & ... have done before.

HOWEVER I would want to know "What's in it for us?" ... no where else in the world do customers have a whip round to keep a currently viable commercial entity topped up with FREE cash. ~ The BOD would surely have to raise more concessions in the sale apart from, we'll sell it to you all in a year, as we've had a squeaky bum event.

Yours ... Scotty Conroy ;)

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No matter where the loss of income info' should come from - I am being asked to vote on something, and there is a lot of inference that the losses could be very, very significant. The language used is (in my view) verging on scare-mongering.

Maybe the loss of Rangers to the SPL clubs IS scary - from a financial POV. If it is, show me in at least some detail why a 'YES' to Newco should even for one minute be considered. I cannot take on board any possible 'YES' scenario with zero facts coming my way.

If I receive more than emotive language - I'll take it on board... then vote no anyway. It had to be said.... The SFA say only match-fixing was more serious. The SPL say they have a prima facie case to answer in regard to EBTs. Their manager with his 'who are these people' rant saw threats to individuals and property. Their club ambassador marched on our national stadium with a horde, and issued threats. They wilfully witheld tax and PAYE. They took the SFA to court. They show no humilty or take any responsibility.

NO TO NEWCO.

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I don't trust the rest of them to send emails out !

You may recall the 7 copies of one email that was sent out previously. That was the last one they sent themselves whistling.gif

You only got 7 - I got 14 relating to the 87 SRTB Club.

I thought that 10000Hours had a legal beagle who is also the Club Secretary on the current BoD - Chris Stewart.

Should he not be taking some of the workload here and let you get on with your day job which is more important for you and your family than dealing with the stress that you get from answering numerous questions from the supporters.

Take a step back Div and get on with your own business this week. No-one on here will question your commitment to this.

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