"no To Newco" Vote

[div]

Personally I hope (and believe) that the scenario outlined in question 4 never comes to pass.

The club formerly known as Rangers won't be in the SPL next season but I'm fairly sure that some sort of fudge is going to be created whereby they drop to one division down so that their hiatus from the top flight is only one year.

I don't think that is right, and I am party to no other information other than what I read online and in the papers, but I just feel that is the most likely scenario.

St.Mirren will suffer a wee bit of pain through reduced gate revenue but we will be able to live with that and if it also means removing the 11:1 voting structure and thus allowing the game to be restructured it will definitely be a price worth paying.

[Guest somner9]

Not you usual clarity there DXB......looks like this is troubling you.

I heard that noise too!

So it was the sound of a penny dropping right enough? (or should i say mandate to seek further membership contribution endorsed by majority of CiC membership on 25/6/2012)

[pozbaird]

Personally I hope (and believe) that the scenario outlined in question 4 never comes to pass.

The club formerly known as Rangers won't be in the SPL next season but I'm fairly sure that some sort of fudge is going to be created whereby they drop to one division down so that their hiatus from the top flight is only one year.

I don't think that is right, and I am party to no other information other than what I read online and in the papers, but I just feel that is the most likely scenario.

St.Mirren will suffer a wee bit of pain through reduced gate revenue but we will be able to live with that and if it also means removing the 11:1 voting structure and thus allowing the game to be restructured it will definitely be a price worth paying.

Can't see it Div. Once upon a time (Feb 14th), I absolutely thought that Rangers would do a Harry Houdini act and pop up debt-free and smelling of roses under a new consortium. Then after a while, I figured that they were in real trouble, but under-pressure SPL chairmen would save their sorry ass for monetary short-term gain. That didn't happen. A newco organisation being shoe-horned into Div 1 is patently as wrong as a newco organisation being shoe-horned into the SPL.

It's a new game now - they are goosed. Dundee come up, the relegation play-offs in lower leagues are re-set, and the best they can hope for is to apply for, and get, the vacant slot in Div 3.

IMHO. He added. Just in case there's a twist... but I don't see it.

[Drew]

Personally I hope (and believe) that the scenario outlined in question 4 never comes to pass.

The club formerly known as Rangers won't be in the SPL next season but I'm fairly sure that some sort of fudge is going to be created whereby they drop to one division down so that their hiatus from the top flight is only one year.

I don't think that is right, and I am party to no other information other than what I read online and in the papers, but I just feel that is the most likely scenario.

St.Mirren will suffer a wee bit of pain through reduced gate revenue but we will be able to live with that and if it also means removing the 11:1 voting structure and thus allowing the game to be restructured it will definitely be a price worth paying.

I have a sense of quiet optimism that the NewCo won't gain entry to the 1st Division either. It seems to me that the momentum that has built in the past week or so is largely down to the pressure being brought to bear by ordinary supporters, and the supporters of the smaller clubs will have no less a sense of injustice should the NewCo gain a direct entry into their leagues.

In some respects, smaller clubs have more to fear from their supporters staying away if their league is rendered an uncompetitive, rigged sham by the NewCo being allowed in. They can't fall back on other streams of revenue to the same extent that SPL clubs can (sponsorship, big(gish) home gates, later rounds of the cup competitions etc.).

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the momentum for change has grown to much for it to stall at this stage.

I also don't believe that the SFA have the remotest chance of persuading the member clubs to embrace a radical restructuring a mere 7 or so weeks from the start of next season.

The most likely scenario is that the NewCo(rpse) will go to ground for a year. Green will cut his losses and sell to the Blue Knights (or some other disparate consortium of so-called 'Rangers men') who will then look to either join a league in England, or apply to enter a new legue structure up here in the second tier. As things stand, I don't expect us to have any NewCo in the SPL for another two seasons. Pleasing, as they say on P&B

[Drew]

Can't see it Div. Once upon a time (Feb 14th), I absolutely thought that Rangers would do a Harry Houdini act and pop up debt-free and smelling of roses under a new consortium. Then after a while, I figured that they were in real trouble, but under-pressure SPL chairmen would save their sorry ass for monetary short-term gain. That didn't happen. A newco organisation being shoe-horned into Div 1 is patently as wrong as a newco organisation being shoe-horned into the SPL.

It's a new game now - they are goosed. Dundee come up, the relegation play-offs in lower leagues are re-set, and the best they can hope for is to apply for, and get, the vacant slot in Div 3.

IMHO. He added. Just in case there's a twist... but I don't see it.

Kind of beat me to it!

[billyg]

I'm sure I read they would need 22 votes out of 29 if TRFC dropping to the 1st was put to the SFL members. No chance of being voted down one division if that's the case. The 3rd and 2nd division clubs will want their share of the financial cake , and the 1st division clubs know that they'll be in their division sooner or later anyway !

[billyg]

The most likely scenario is that the NewCo(rpse) will go to ground for a year.

If you mean under suspension or opting out altogether, then they will never come back IMO. How could a business that size survive for a year by standing still ?Impossible !

[Guest somner9]

If you mean under suspension or opting out altogether, then they will never come back IMO. How could a business that size survive for a year by standing still ?Impossible !

I'm sure I read they would need 22 votes out of 29 if TRFC dropping to the 1st was put to the SFL members. No chance of being voted down one division if that's the case. The 3rd and 2nd division clubs will want their share of the financial cake , and the 1st division clubs know that they'll be in their division sooner or later anyway !

My thoughts too, but may yet be spiced by either:

A - newco go into admin as they have no funds to run club, no ST sales and players walk under TUPE

B - SFA revoke their licence for year, as a cosequence of not taking the year long transfer embargo

either way the newco would be stuffed and forced to sell on at a loss to some sort of fan purchase scheme.

Remember (although I don't) Rangers were at the forefront of trying to get five teams playing in the lower leagues bumped out completely in 1964, namely Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City, Stenhousemuir and Stranraer. see here: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rangers-newco-1964-bid-to-eject-minnows-

could-come-back-to-haunt-club-1-2375352

Those five along with falkirk and raith already opposed to them walking into Div 1 would in itself mean they couldn't achieve a 75% vote in favour.

we waited long and hard for this Billy but very soon we will be able to raise that glass and say "What goes around comes around ya manky bastards, away in lie in yer Div 3/New Div 2 pish"

[Stuart Dickson]

I still think that the fudge will come, if not in slotting Newco in the First Division then in terms of league reconstruction. I don't have any feel of how it would sit with fans of lower league clubs but I still think we'll see some sort of SFA led solution where there are either two or three tiers to the game and more promotion and relegation slots.

However to bring this back to the CIC i think it's really important that regardless of the outcome 10000hours don't fall into the trap of robbing from the community to pay for the club. If the deal to buy the club is to be postponed for a year then so should the direct debit mandates. There is nothing stopping Gilmour et al to ask fans to donate that money to the club for the 12 months if needs be, but 10000hours shouldn't be used as a vehicle for that IMO.

[Drew]

If you mean under suspension or opting out altogether, then they will never come back IMO. How could a business that size survive for a year by standing still ?Impossible !

I can't see them playing in any other division that the Scottish 3rd this coming season, and, with each day that passes, that looks increasingly unlikely also.

Despite that, I can't envisage any circumstance whereby they will disappear completely on a permanent basis. They (I use that term advisedly) still have a huge latent fan-base, and, as such, this will always be regarded as a money-making opportunity by someone out there (not least if they aren't saddled with massive debts).

They'll be back in some form or another eventually.

[St. Sid]

The talk about getting into the 1st div has been as daft as them going to the Court of Session. If scumgers had held there hands up and started to plan for the 3rd division I reckon most fans would have accepted that; however it is the persistent avoidance of their responsibility and acceptance of their punishment that has made it difficult to provide them with any leeway.

Probably a thread in itself; however there will be no end of SFL clubs lining up to be one of the first 8 to announce their no vote. The beaks have tried to fiddle deal after deal for scumgers and everytime it hits the press the scumgers fans start the bleating leaving no wiggle room for club chairmen. Giving the middle finger to your judge and jury after pleading guilty is not going to go well for you when it comes to sentencing. It is their institutionalised culture and it looks like it will be the death of them.

[pozbaird]

Kind of beat me to it!

There's room for more than one 'Cannae see the disgraced cheats newco zombie start-up club being admitted to Div 1' post.

[DXBBud]

I heard that noise too!

So it was the sound of a penny dropping right enough? (or should i say mandate to seek further membership contribution endorsed by majority of CiC membership on 25/6/2012)

Question 4 as it currently stands can only be read hypothetically. In principle I have no objection to putting money into securing the future of the club, but only if those asking for the money are open and up-front about why it is needed and what those asking will be doing themselves.

No pennies dropping - on a Paisley forum I would expect a stampede if there were. Just a straightforward point being expressed in a straightforward way. No more no less so don't try to read in things that are not there.

[Guest somner9]

The talk about getting into the 1st div has been as daft as them going to the Court of Session. If scumgers had held there hands up and started to plan for the 3rd division I reckon most fans would have accepted that; however it is the persistent avoidance of their responsibility and acceptance of their punishment that has made it difficult to provide them with any leeway.

Probably a thread in itself; however there will be no end of SFL clubs lining up to be one of the first 8 to announce their no vote. The beaks have tried to fiddle deal after deal for scumgers and everytime it hits the press the scumgers fans start the bleating leaving no wiggle room for club chairmen. Giving the middle finger to your judge and jury after pleading guilty is not going to go well for you when it comes to sentencing. It is their institutionalised culture and it looks like it will be the death of them.

Quote:

The #SFA application must include fit and proper details from administrators re Charles Green and consortium. #Rangers @BBCchrismclaug 7 minutes ago

#SFA tell newco #Rangers to get their application for SFA membership in by Friday.

Thats not much time to get your consortium "laundering" done

[Guest somner9]

Question 4 as it currently stands can only be read hypothetically. In principle I have no objection to putting money into securing the future of the club, but only if those asking for the money are open and up-front about why it is needed and what those asking will be doing themselves.

No pennies dropping - on a Paisley forum I would expect a stampede if there were. Just a straightforward point being expressed in a straightforward way. No more no less so don't try to read in things that are not there.

Meeoow!

[St. Sid]

Quote:

The #SFA application must include fit and proper details from administrators re Charles Green and consortium. #Rangers @BBCchrismclaug 7 minutes ago

#SFA tell newco #Rangers to get their application for SFA membership in by Friday.

Thats not much time to get your consortium "laundering" done

The SFA have been fairly skaving of Green repeatedly ignoring their requests for full disclosure of his "consortium". Bluff well and truly called now.

[Vambo57]

My thoughts too, but may yet be spiced by either:

A - newco go into admin as they have no funds to run club, no ST sales and players walk under TUPE

B - SFA revoke their licence for year, as a cosequence of not taking the year long transfer embargo

either way the newco would be stuffed and forced to sell on at a loss to some sort of fan purchase scheme.

Remember (although I don't) Rangers were at the forefront of trying to get five teams playing in the lower leagues bumped out completely in 1964, namely Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City, Stenhousemuir and Stranraer. see here: http://www.scotsman....-eject-minnows-

could-come-back-to-haunt-club-1-2375352

Cracking reply to that Scotsman article below. Its a long read but worth it:

38

mayray

Tuesday, June 26, 2012 at 08:17 AM

Is there something deeper going on here with the Scottish People. ..................Thinking back most decent minded Scots have been appalled at the behaviour, antics, criminal, drunken, quasi political and religiously prejudiced baggage attached to Rangers FC over the years. ........................Sadly while obviously not the majority of their fans were guilty of that behaviour the numbers were such that there appeared no possibility of stamping it out. .............................It was after all the conduct and stated philosophies of the Club that attracted these types from all over Scotland, hanging onto their coat tails wherever they went in order to disperse their poisonous hatred and abusive behaviour. ..............Unfortunately even many of the decent Rangers fans while visiting the designated towns of their victims refused to "walk a mile in the other man's shoes" If they had they would have understood the reaction to Rangers plight from the general population. .............There is not a town visited by this Club that couldn't recount stories of hordes of malevolent, swearing drunken louts, using their weight of numbers to bully and intimidate anyone caught in their path. Their shoplifting, public urinating, verbal abuse of anyone "not in their gang" is something every place they have visited, has fallen victim to. ..............I remember as a boy growing up in Methil, asking my Mum why she wanted Rangers or Celtic to win at Bayview. ..................She told me it was safer for everyone if they did. I never understood at the time but as I grew up I caught on fast................Now it seems to me all these incidents, all these memories, all the bruises, damaged property, and being made to feel a victim in our own town on these Saturday afternoons have flooded back to us. ...............Our frustrations that our Chairmen, Boards of Directors and police forces seemed unable or unwilling to prevent us all being intimidated in our own stadia have resurfaced....................Effectively Rangers grew so powerful in their own country their lust for more power caused them to implode. Their own greed avarice and determination to use any means to transfer their fans intimidation of their counterparts into their team's intimidation on the field, ate away the very fabric of their institution, aided by an already sycophantic and equally corrupt media, unable but more likely unwilling to question the validity or merit of any of it. ............So as I see what we have witnessed over the last few weeks is an administration of a long overdue punishment by the people of Scotland who have suffered decades of humiliation at the hands of this Club. Unrestrained by the law, the media, Government or even the Football Authorities these victims have grasped their opportunity to meat out their own long overdue punishment, as they see it to Rangers. ...............call it vindictive (many Rangers fans do) call it justice (the majority of the people do) or call it fate but look at it this way. ...................................In a domestic situation on your street, is there a single decent Rangers fan out there, given the opportunity to finally get their own back on a vile and bullying neighbour would count themselves a man if they had not taken the same opportunity? ...................Rangers are as much paying the price for their fan's behaviour as they are for their past owners debatably criminal behaviour. Hopefully it is not the idiots who have posted all manner of threats and boasts about when "Rangers" come back who will be leading the way for the fans of the new club but people who realise that this game of football is a SPORT to be watched and enjoyed in the spirit of fair competition and camaraderie with opposition fans. ............A realisation that they represent the reputation of their Club when they visit other fans towns, willing to show friendliness and a desire to leave a good impression wherever they go. .............I don't expect many " Rangers" fans to agree with most of the above but if that is the case then fine, I'm sure the "they don't like us, we don't care" attitude will serve them in the same way some time in the future and if it does, if no lessons have been learned, people like Sandy Jardine are still representing your attitudes, don't complain when it brings you down again in the future, as it most certainly will. ..................................The Scottish Football Fans have realised how standing together and wielding their undoubted power will overcome even the most ingrained and corrupt areas of our game..............and they liked how it felt.

end

Well said that man!

[div]

765 votes have been returned. Members have until midnight tonight to return their votes before the poll closes.

Report will be issued tomorrow with all the results and an appendix of all the comments that have been made (364 of the 765 who have voted have left a comment).

Latest results as of 8am this morning are now on the homepage at http://www.10000hours.org

[whydowebother]

765 votes have been returned. Members have until midnight tonight to return their votes before the poll closes.

Report will be issued tomorrow with all the results and an appendix of all the comments that have been made (364 of the 765 who have voted have left a comment).

Latest results as of 8am this morning are now on the homepage at http://www.10000hours.org

Good to see most people being fairly consistent. There is no need for kneejerk reactions , sit tight , watch developments & make a judgement once all details/facts etc have been established.

Still a good time to be a buddie

[reborn saint]

Is there a way for people to resubmit their votes?

I'm just surprised that Q1 currently has 3% of the vote in favour of a Newco being allowed straight into the SPL.

As Sean Connery would say....Shurely Shum Mishtake Mish Moneypenny.

Remember SG might have a vote on Q1