BoWSaint Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I don't think a lot of 10000hrs pledger's will be too happy at the thought of starting their DD's with no assurances that 10000hrs will actually take control of the club in 12 months time. I'm happy to pay my monthly subs, but it is under the condition that I have an equal voice in the 52% share of the club i.e. the CIC bid goes through. Why should I start paying a year early to effectively have no voice during this time when there is a chance that in a years time things go tits up and I have just thrown away £120 for nothing and am left standing holding my Davina's with a 1000 other folk. If this is what was meant by Question 4 of the survey then I misunderstood. I am happy to increase my DD to help the club but with the understanding that 10000hrs already have control of the 52%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Old Fan Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I don't think a lot of 10000hrs pledger's will be too happy at the thought of starting their DD's with no assurances that 10000hrs will actually take control of the club in 12 months time. I'm happy to pay my monthly subs, but it is under the condition that I have an equal voice in the 52% share of the club i.e. the CIC bid goes through. Why should I start paying a year early to effectively have no voice during this time when there is a chance that in a years time things go tits up and I have just thrown away £120 for nothing and am left standing holding my Davina's with a 1000 other folk. If this is what was meant by Question 4 of the survey then I misunderstood. I am happy to increase my DD to help the club but with the understanding that 10000hrs already have control of the 52%. Agreed totally, and in addition I would want to see some projected figures to show me the effect of TV and sponsors walking away to show what the revised cash flow would be. During the recent voting period I suggested to 10000hours that if we could survive relegation why not Sky walking, and got reply that players contracts were written in way that wages would be reduced to reflect the loss of income . Thats fair enough but if the 10000hours team want us to be paying DDs without a properly constituted CIC and the right to a binding vote of members, and a proper and complete disclosure of the cash flow problems I suspect I will support the club in other ways than a CIC DD. I will not be satisfied will contributing to a purely advisory online poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Is the penny starting to drop now? I like a few others practically begged 10000 hours not to run with Q4, it sent out all the wrong signals i.e. (Hey instead of your DD paying your cic membership subs, why don't we give it all to the selling consortium for at least a year in lieu of the fact we couldn't sell any of the SRTB corporate memberships, This will help make up that shortfall. Then when we've paid them that for a year we'll see if we can afford to bid for the club, bearing in mind there's no guarantee that the Big Issue loan will still be on the table in a year's time, so you might well have given the selling consortium a years worth of subs for feck all. Yes or No?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Is the penny starting to drop now? I like a few others practically begged 10000 hours not to run with Q4, it sent out all the wrong signals i.e. (Hey instead of your DD paying your cic membership subs, why don't we give it all to the selling consortium for at least a year in lieu of the fact we couldn't sell any of the SRTB corporate memberships, This will help make up that shortfall. Then when we've paid them that for a year we'll see if we can afford to bid for the club, bearing in mind there's no guarantee that the Big Issue loan will still be on the table in a year's time, so you might well have given the selling consortium a years worth of subs for feck all. Yes or No?) Well again Somner it was hardly your revelation but to answer the question in your last paragraph....yes absolutely. It is certainly how I view it, particularly from the community group / charity point of view. This now just looks like yet another one of those greedy St Mirren cash grabs that has been going on for years now within the local community where yet again community groups are expected to pay up or miss out for little or no return at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Is the penny starting to drop now? I like a few others practically begged 10000 hours not to run with Q4, it sent out all the wrong signals i.e. (Hey instead of your DD paying your cic membership subs, why don't we give it all to the selling consortium for at least a year in lieu of the fact we couldn't sell any of the SRTB corporate memberships, This will help make up that shortfall. Then when we've paid them that for a year we'll see if we can afford to bid for the club, bearing in mind there's no guarantee that the Big Issue loan will still be on the table in a year's time, so you might well have given the selling consortium a years worth of subs for feck all. Yes or No?) You don't half read a lot in to a question mark at the end of a perfectly simple question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 That's right , "the club will be sold one way or another by the start of the season" ! As you say Billyg it was all a load of bollox to get everyone to jump on board the CIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 You don't half read a lot in to a question mark at the end of a perfectly simple question. OK let's just say 10000 hours come back and ask for that extra contribution from its members going straight to SMFC (thats what Q4 states). They have said the sale could be delayed for a year, and they have asked if you would pay your cic monthly contribution over to them/smfc to help fund the club in that year. making clear that this money will not be your cic membership contribution. Which bit am i reading 'A Lot' into? I see a strategy to make up the shortfall on £25k & £3k (£250k) memberships that GLS promised us his batch of shares would sell. And as far as I can see he is still entitled to be paid through the cic for those shares even though we've sold bugger all SRTB memberships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Rangers can go and play on the moon for all we care. No they can't. They are deid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Looking at the figures on 10000 Hours site, they have actually got a mandate to start taking direct debits before the deal is completed if you treat that vote as an ordinary resolution. This is going to be another challenge....when a vote goes against some fans views you will see fickle-souled people like BoWSaint greeting like f"k rather than accept a democratic vote made by their fellow members. By joining 10000 Hours you need to be prepared to accept the results of votes no matter how much you disagree with it. In my humble opinion, 10000 Hours and SMFC would be mental to try and start taking money out of fans bank accounts based on that vote. However, as a proof of concept it has been a rather clumsy exercise. And as somner9 pointed out - 10000 Hours got feedback and chose to ignore it. I actually think that has been a positive on this occasion though as hopefully it has educated some members on the importance of their involvement in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Looking at the figures on 10000 Hours site, they have actually got a mandate to start taking direct debits before the deal is completed if you treat that vote as an ordinary resolution. This is going to be another challenge....when a vote goes against some fans views you will see fickle-souled people like BoWSaint greeting like f"k rather than accept a democratic vote made by their fellow members. By joining 10000 Hours you need to be prepared to accept the results of votes no matter how much you disagree with it. In my humble opinion, 10000 Hours and SMFC would be mental to try and start taking money out of fans bank accounts based on that vote. However, as a proof of concept it has been a rather clumsy exercise. And as somner9 pointed out - 10000 Hours got feedback and chose to ignore it. I actually think that has been a positive on this occasion though as hopefully it has educated some members on the importance of their involvement in the process. Lets see when they start asking for a years subs to go to the selling consortium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Lets see when they start asking for a years subs to go to the selling consortium? This is were it starts to get bizarre.........you have 10000 Hours supporters taking the position that they won;t help the club out, and then you have St Mirren supporters not joining the CIC who will be more than happy to put their hands in their pockets to support SMFC. Utter shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Looking at the figures on 10000 Hours site, they have actually got a mandate to start taking direct debits before the deal is completed if you treat that vote as an ordinary resolution. This is going to be another challenge....when a vote goes against some fans views you will see fickle-souled people like BoWSaint greeting like f"k rather than accept a democratic vote made by their fellow members. By joining 10000 Hours you need to be prepared to accept the results of votes no matter how much you disagree with it. In my humble opinion, 10000 Hours and SMFC would be mental to try and start taking money out of fans bank accounts based on that vote. However, as a proof of concept it has been a rather clumsy exercise. And as somner9 pointed out - 10000 Hours got feedback and chose to ignore it. I actually think that has been a positive on this occasion though as hopefully it has educated some members on the importance of their involvement in the process. I've said several times I'd be out. You're right that if you wish to be a member of a Community Interest Company then you have to accept the democratic will of the majority of members, but there is absolutely nothing to stop you withdrawing your membership application if a decision taken by the majority means that you no longer wish to be a member. As I've said I cannot square the idea of a CIC taking subscriptions from community groups and charities and using that money to prop up an ailing senior, professional football club when the CIC is not going to be in a position to deliver benefits back to the community groups and charities. 10000hours should never allow itself to be seen as a vehicle to take money from community groups and charities to fund the senior professional club it may eventually own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 ...but there is absolutely nothing to stop you withdrawing your membership application if a decision taken by the majority means that you no longer wish to be a member. If you are not in the CIC for the long haul - essentially until the debt is paid off then you should not be in it at all. Withdrawal of funding into 10000 Hours not only puts the CIC at risk, but also SMFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) If you are not in the CIC for the long haul - essentially until the debt is paid off then you should not be in it at all. Withdrawal of funding into 10000 Hours not only puts the CIC at risk, but also SMFC. Sid the reason I am interested in 10000hours and the whole project is because of the claim that it would work with corporate and community members to deliver mutual benefits to all three groups. 10000Hours has also repeatedly stated that existing direct debits would not be drawn upon until the deal to buy the 52%shareholding is complete. For me this wouldn't be a CIC it would be a greedy SPL bastards self interest club. This is a senior football club screwing the community over for more cash. Edited June 28, 2012 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoWSaint Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Looking at the figures on 10000 Hours site, they have actually got a mandate to start taking direct debits before the deal is completed if you treat that vote as an ordinary resolution. This is going to be another challenge....when a vote goes against some fans views you will see fickle-souled people like BoWSaint greeting like f"k rather than accept a democratic vote made by their fellow members. By joining 10000 Hours you need to be prepared to accept the results of votes no matter how much you disagree with it. In my humble opinion, 10000 Hours and SMFC would be mental to try and start taking money out of fans bank accounts based on that vote. However, as a proof of concept it has been a rather clumsy exercise. And as somner9 pointed out - 10000 Hours got feedback and chose to ignore it. I actually think that has been a positive on this occasion though as hopefully it has educated some members on the importance of their involvement in the process. This was not a vote to start taking money out of our bank accounts. It was an opinion poll requested by SMFC, nothing more, nothing less. You are just trying to make more out of it for your own warped agenda. Fickle-souled people like me have clearly stated that I would actively like to change the voting structure from 75% to 51% majority rule on issues once the CIC takes over so back to the drawing board with that one Lets see when they start asking for a years subs to go to the selling consortium? Why would the money go to the selling consortium? Why not go towards SMFC as a whole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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