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I've emailed [email protected] :

10000Hours Executive team,

With the recent publication of a SPL document by STV: http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/, many supporters of St Mirren and 10000Hours are dismayed at the content of that proposal.

With that in mind, I would encourage you to consider issuing a communication to all signed up members of 10000Hours that you were not aware of this proposal and encourage feedback via a new poll that should be done independently of SMFC Ltd.

I’m sure many signed up members of 10000Hours would welcome direct correspondence than hearing indirectly from the media eg PDE and The Herald.

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Sorry, what have 10000Hours got to do with what St.Mirren FC are currenty doing ?

It seems a bit bizarre to punish the group who are trying to deliver fan ownership because the current board aren't seen to be listening to the fans ?!

The newco situation should be a fundamental condition attached to the sale of the club. If today's deal goes through then it's too late for 10000 hours, the game is dead. There is no point in fans wasting their money on Scottish football.

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Time to take a reality check guys are you hatred for Rangers out weigh your love of St Mirren?

That was my view on the season ticket boycotting. I felt that we should give SG and the BoD the benefit of the doubt. I was prepared to accept that the process was complicated, to buy my season ticket to support the club into the new season and be patient.

SG shat all over that trust with his interview in the PDE. There has been no denial of his comments regarding why he couldn't understand 1st division clubs being against the newco getting into their division. Then we have this disgrace of a document threatening SFL clubs with being left outside of SPL1 & 2 if they don't accept scumgers.

Why would anyone in their right mind want to give SG & Co £1.5Million, or let REA, Chris Stewart and Brian Caldwell take control of our club?

Surely the fan's president should be speaking out about this too?

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Im sorry guys but I can not get my head around why we want to punish the CiC and St Mirren for a decision that we may not agree with.

I want to see Rangers in the third division at best, but I want to see a successfull St Mirren more.

SG and the current board may make some daft decisions at the momment with regards to Rangers, however in his tenure he has made some decisions that have saved us from being in Rangers position.

Time to take a reality check guys are you hatred for Rangers out weigh your love of St Mirren?

Nobody advocating punishment of the CIC, the OP says it all, let them know you are back on board as long as this proposal is flushed out where it should be.

Money talks, and the £1.5 million chegue that the CIC arethinking of giving tothe consortium is the best voice we have to speak out against this perverse proposal.

And let's face it, it's more honest. there are very few of us who will support SMFC regardless of who owns it if this goes through. It's best to let them know how seriously todays events have undermined the bid for the club

Edited by beyond our ken

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Im sorry guys but I can not get my head around why we want to punish the CiC and St Mirren for a decision that we may not agree with.

I want to see Rangers in the third division at best, but I want to see a successfull St Mirren more.

SG and the current board may make some daft decisions at the momment with regards to Rangers, however in his tenure he has made some decisions that have saved us from being in Rangers position.

Time to take a reality check guys are you hatred for Rangers out weigh your love of St Mirren?

Honestly - I've got more reasons to hate St Mirren than I have Rangers and that has been the case for a long time now. When posting on the Rangers saga some of what I've written has been pointing and laughing at them along with everyone else, but I've also tried to balance that with a bit of understanding of how some of my work mates and friends are really feeling.

The problem with this though is this isn't about Rangers. This is about morality, about sporting integrity and it's about the love of the sport. If Chairmen are going to try and bully other clubs with the threat of cutting them adrift and threatening their future they can go f**k themselves. Gilmour doesn't deserve a penny for his shares and neither do the rest of the Board Of Directors.

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Totally understand all that has been said above and agree that fans and 10000hours should be doing everything possible to stop Mr Gilmour despite all he has done for us down the river. I dont know whether I can walk away from St Mirren after 50 years but in the event of a carve up designed to do nothing more than help a bunch of cheats and criminals I will have to give it serious consideration. I dont agree with a condemnation of two directors involved in 10000hours as i quite believe it is down to Mr Gilmour alone. He and the consortium he leads have 52% of shares but 100% of the power and have the ability to do what they like regardless of other directors, fans, or anyone else.

As a 10000hours member I look for a statement making our position quite clear. No carve up for a team of cheats and crooks. If we do that there is a very real prospect of professional football dying in Scotland.

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Nobody advocating punishment of the CIC, the OP says it all, let them know you are back on board as long as this proposal is flushed out where it should be.

Money talks, and the £1.5 million chegue that the CIC arethinking of giving tothe consortium is the best voice we have to speak out against this perverse proposal.

And let's face it, it's more honest. there are very few of us who will support SMFC regardless of who owns it if this goes through. It's best to let them know how seriously todays events have undermined the bid for the club

^^^^^^^^^^^^^This!

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Honestly - I've got more reasons to hate St Mirren than I have Rangers and that has been the case for a long time now. When posting on the Rangers saga some of what I've written has been pointing and laughing at them along with everyone else, but I've also tried to balance that with a bit of understanding of how some of my work mates and friends are really feeling.

The problem with this though is this isn't about Rangers. This is about morality, about sporting integrity and it's about the love of the sport. If Chairmen are going to try and bully other clubs with the threat of cutting them adrift and threatening their future they can go f**k themselves. Gilmour doesn't deserve a penny for his shares and neither do the rest of the Board Of Directors.

Honestly - I've got more reasons to hate St Mirren than I have Rangers and that has been the case for a long time now. When posting on the Rangers saga some of what I've written has been pointing and laughing at them along with everyone else, but I've also tried to balance that with a bit of understanding of how some of my work mates and friends are really feeling.

The problem with this though is this isn't about Rangers. This is about morality, about sporting integrity and it's about the love of the sport. If Chairmen are going to try and bully other clubs with the threat of cutting them adrift and threatening their future they can go f**k themselves. Gilmour doesn't deserve a penny for his shares and neither do the rest of the Board Of Directors.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This!

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Sorry, what have 10000Hours got to do with what St.Mirren FC are currenty doing ?

It seems a bit bizarre to punish the group who are trying to deliver fan ownership because the current board aren't seen to be listening to the fans ?!

I thought REA was on the current board.

I may be wrong.

If I'm right then culpability lies therein.

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Fair enough bud, I can't criticise anyone for feeling like that.

I too am disgusted by the proposal and particularly the way it has been worded, but I see the strength of feeling all the way through the leagues and believe the fans will ensure this fudge doesn't happen.

Rather than try and kill our own club, we should be trying to kill the proposal. In my opinion.

I agree but how do we do that effectively without threatening a boycott of tickets and withdrawing TTH money?

If these guys won't listen what else can we do?

Gilmour can end all of this tomorrow by making a statement. Let's hope he does because he doesn't seem to get the seriousness and immediacy of this problem as it affects Saints.

If he doesn't then he's seriously risking standing in an empty stadiumn on day 1 of the new season wishing for the old days where Saints stood to lose just a few quid from SevCo away fans.

Maybe he just doesn't think we are serious.

Ticket sales are apparently up 15%.

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Im sorry guys but I can not get my head around why we want to punish the CiC and St Mirren for a decision that we may not agree with.

I want to see Rangers in the third division at best, but I want to see a successfull St Mirren more.

SG and the current board may make some daft decisions at the momment with regards to Rangers, however in his tenure he has made some decisions that have saved us from being in Rangers position.

Time to take a reality check guys are you hatred for Rangers out weigh your love of St Mirren?

At what point do you put common decency and morals before your football team?

Is it SO overridingly important to you to watch 22 guys kicking a plastic ball for 90 minutes that you are willing to suffer corruption, blackmail and bullying?

What exactly would need to happen before you stopped watching games?

Would ticket prices need to go to £150 a match?

Whatever that point is for you, understand that for more than 95% of ALL scottish football fans out there, this is a red line.

BTW the entire point is that a boycott which is prepared to be seen through will result in the BOD backing down.

If you think a single person on here WANTS to miss a single match you've misunderstood everything.

I believe this is financially driven and therefore financial threats which overcome the perceived gain of greasingup for SevCo MUST logically win the day.

Temporary boycotts are that financial threat.

There isn't a chance in hell that Saints will disappear.

The boycott will hopefully remain, Gilm our will back down and make the statement we all demand and then he'll sell up, disappear and we can all forget about this shit. We can all tell our grandchildren how we were there when SevCo were finally beaten.

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My e-mail to 10000 hours advising them of my intent to cancel if this goes ahead is not a judgement on them.

If this 'parachuting' of newco wrongers into division 1 or SPL 2 goes ahead I will no longer be willing to be assosiated with Scottish football in any way. My TTH membership would just be a casualty as would my season ticket and Sky subscription. My hard earned will be spent in outlets other than JJB.

Edited by 2becks

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Fair enough bud, I can't criticise anyone for feeling like that.

I too am disgusted by the proposal and particularly the way it has been worded, but I see the strength of feeling all the way through the leagues and believe the fans will ensure this fudge doesn't happen.

Rather than try and kill our own club, we should be trying to kill the proposal. In my opinion.

I do not want to kill St Mirren Div but the current BoD could put us in an impossible position that makes continuing untenable. The BoD know via the CiC Poll that 80.9% of fans accept the position that they will tolerate relegation if necessary to maintain integrity and not condone cheating and fraud.

However the BoD's last act could be to say 'tough shit, here's Rangers, give us your money and its now your problem'. And by then its too late.

In the meantime the CiC can tell the BoD then the takeover will not go ahead unless they come out against the proposed cheats' charter. Its all that is left for us.

If the cheats' charter goes ahead then I am finished with Scottish Football and will cancel my CiC DD. I'm out.

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If we cast our minds back to the period where it looked for all the world like a Rangers newco would be greased straight into the SPL - I came on here and said I wouldn't renew my ST for this season - just as many others did. Naturally received accusations of trying to organise a campaign that would damage our club, but as subsequent weeks have proven, that accusation came from a forum user whom, if he told me today was Friday, I'd go and check my calendar.

Anyway, as things dragged on, with no sign of a resolution to the Rangers debacle in sight, it was my low-level involvement with the 10000hours CIC bid that helped make my final decision, and that decision was to take the plunge and re-new my ST. If the CIC came to fruition, we'd have supporter involvement, and the opportunity to make our individual voices heard.

My decision to go ahead and renew my ST was made to seem absolutely the right thing to do, as Vlad broke ranks and said 'No to newco in the SPL', closely followed by the likes of Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee United, and others. Once it was clear (with Aberdeen's vote) that it was 'No to newco' in the SPL, not sure about anyone else, but here's what I was thinking: I was thinking that we were on the road to any newco Rangers firstly having to get themselves up and running and capable of carrying on, and secondly, applying for what would become a vacancy in SFL 3, taking their chances with Spartans, Cove, or anyone else who applied.

There was a mood of buoyancy amongst supporters. If newco Rangers got their shit together, applied for and got into Div 3, and came up through the divisions - fair enough. This is what ANY newco club applying for SFL membership would do. Just like Annan Athletic. Apply, get in, start off in Div 3, work your way up. It is clear that the rules do not apply though when we are talking about Rangers.... but, this isn't Rangers. This is far from the 'big' Rangers we knew - with a 50,000 crowd, a team of internationals, regular European jaunts, and a ton of trophies. This is a newco club with a handful of players turning up for training, and who knows what going on behind the scenes in regard to who Green's backers are. Are they remotely fit and proper? Is he just an asset-stripper, and how much has Craig Whyte still got to say about it? In regard to the dying club that would spawn the newco - there's still SFA sanctions to come, there's criminal investigations into their recent owners, and the SPL say they have a big case to answer in regard to illegal double contracts. Yet, the football authorities seem to be hell-bent on finding a way to make life easier for this 'newco' which hasn't even sprung yet from the disgraced ashes of the deeply corrupt and cheating corpse of what used to be Rangers FC? Disgusting isn't the word for it. It's beyond disgusting.

Now, in regard to the 'football authorities' who seem hell-bent on taking it up the arse for this 'newco' - here's my big confusion. Obviously while we were all being fed the 'NO' verdicts from Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs... and feeling that justice was being done, behind the scenes it was a different matter. Moves were afoot to create this monster of all cock-ups, with a new league structure dressed up as a major way forward for our game, but merely a device by which to 'save' this 'newco' from having to enter football at the bottom of the pack.... as they should, just like any new applicant. What I don't know is who knew. Who was in on it. Who was well aware of our 'No to newco in SPL' delight, while all the time they were cooking up this disgraceful attempt at a carve-up. Did SG know? Was SG instrumental in any of the talks to attempt this? Petrie at Hibs? Which SPL chairmen were in on it? Has Doncaster simply went off on one and went over the heads of most SPL chairmen? Who in the SFA and SFL was/is 'in on this little game'? Where should the finger be pointed?

Div has said it was news to the 10000hours team, yet two of the team are directors of St Mirren FC, and the entire 10000hours team were locked in talks with the selling consortium last week - with the Rangers 'uncertainty' causing talks to be put on ice. IF 10000hours knew nothing about this carve-up going on behind the scenes, but SG and maybe others on the selling consortium did know it was going on - draw your own conclusions. The selling consortium want 1.5mil, 10000hours are offering what they can - but they could easily have concluded a deal..... blissfully unaware that the people selling the club to them were involved in a shoddy deal to completely piss off St Mirren supporters which (as we can see) has caused some to talk about cancelling CIC membership as a protest! I would have thought it was important SG told 10000hours about any possible 'Newco straight to a new Div 1' scheme during those talks - if he's looking for 1.5million from them.... which in no small part comes from us.

Something stinks - big time. This was already a farce on Feb 14 when Rangers went into administration and made ZERO compulsory redundancies. Months and months later, it is beyond a farce, it is an absolute disgrace. I have no idea who knew what about whom, and who was talking to who behind closed doors - but in my opinion, Doncaster, Regan, Ogilvie and Longmuir are clearly not fit for purpose. Doncaster in particular is a walking disaster. No wonder Norwich City are better off with him plying his trade 500 miles up the road in a corrupt banana republic organisation like the Scottish SPL.

Beyond those individuals though, and especially in our boardroom. Tell us what the hell is going on. Absolute farce from beginning to end!

I've been trying to say this in bits and pieces for a while now.....You say it so much better! Best post on here by a country mile.

One point I have..... Maybe I was wrong to jump the gun and assume the gang of ten all agreed to this at the meeting in Aberdeen. With Stuart Milne coming out early with his comments then maybe it was quite simply a chance to make the clubs positions clear on the newco SPL vote. SG seemed to be pushing it (1st Div) in the PDE but I did note the text message posted on here from him saying it's bollox. My position still stands ...I will wait to hear a statement from our club on or before July 4th. If they want to be a part of a corrupt league then I'm out of St Mirren and as such there really would be no point in joining the CiC. If they say what the Vast Majority of fans on here want then I would be happy to increase my financial support to the club whether thats through the CiC or any other form.

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I've been trying to say this in bits and pieces for a while now.....You say it so much better! Best post on here by a country mile.

One point I have..... Maybe I was wrong to jump the gun and assume the gang of ten all agreed to this at the meeting in Aberdeen. With Stuart Milne coming out early with his comments then maybe it was quite simply a chance to make the clubs positions clear on the newco SPL vote. SG seemed to be pushing it (1st Div) in the PDE but I did note the text message posted on here from him saying it's bollox. My position still stands ...I will wait to hear a statement from our club on or before July 4th. If they want to be a part of a corrupt league then I'm out of St Mirren and as such there really would be no point in joining the CiC. If they say what the Vast Majority of fans on here want then I would be happy to increase my financial support to the club whether thats through the CiC or any other form.

One thing I should have made a lot clearer is that I am NOT saying SG & the selling consortium were 'in on' the scheme to create a hasty re-jigging of the Scottish game purely to accomodate Rangers newco in 'Div 1' rather than Div 3.... All I'm saying is that it is possible, just as it is possible that people from Hibs and other clubs knew about this going on behind the scenes as they all voted 'No' to direct SPL entry, and in doing so, received much goodwill from supporters of all smaller clubs in Scotland.

In my big post I was only attempting to highlight the possibility - another one being SG and our selling consortium knew nothing, or knew little... and have been surprised to see the news come out as it did. Anything is possible now, who knows what is going on. I have suggested that Doncaster & Co went over the heads of SPL chairmen? Wouldn't be the first time. Doncaster stood on the Hampden steps and told us it was a 10 team SPL or we die - and many SPL chairmen were as surprised as we were, because Doncaster hadn't consulted with them before opening his gob in such a pompous manner.

Hopefully as suporters we will get the answers we want (and deserve) at the upcoming meetings.

Edited by pozbaird

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I can see a scenario where the consortium are the bad guys letting Newco stay in the SPL and the CIC say "If only...................."

OK not quite but I'm glad to see that in general fans are not buying this dichotomy. If the consortium want to sell to the fans then they should do what the fans want and it's pretty clear what that is - if not then I suggest they get on the phone to the other buyers..........................

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Sorry, what have 10000Hours got to do with what St.Mirren FC are currenty doing ?

It seems a bit bizarre to punish the group who are trying to deliver fan ownership because the current board aren't seen to be listening to the fans ?!

Why should we join the CIC to line the pockets of our directors who have in effect bent over and taken it from the Old Firm if they vote THEM back into div 1

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Sorry, what have 10000Hours got to do with what St.Mirren FC are currenty doing ?

It seems a bit bizarre to punish the group who are trying to deliver fan ownership because the current board aren't seen to be listening to the fans ?!

And just who sits on the current board ffs

It representatives of 10000 hours treating us as dafties that really annoys me.

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And just who sits on the current board ffs

It representatives of 10000 hours treating us as dafties that really annoys me.

Gilmour was St Mirren's representative at the meeting yesterday. Gilmour has stated that he would support a two tier league featuring just 26 senior professional football teams. Gilmour has been quoted directly in the PDE claiming that he knew he would vote no to Rangers in the SPL long before the 10000hours vote. It's Gilmour who is taking everyone for a ride and the sad fact is that some are still willing to shovel up his shite and eat it.

I've cancelled my direct debit to 10000hours because I am concerned at the way the group is being run. I cannot understand why they haven't withdrawn from the sale and told the consortium that if there are such dire financial consequences just around the corner they would prefer to protect their membership and retain the Direct Debits for such times as when the football club is in administration and it needs bailing out. I cannot understand why 10000hours would seek to protect the consortium from the clearly stupid and irresponsible financial mismanagement that they have clearly indulged in over the past 12 months and beyond. And I've cancelled my direct debit because of concerns at Question 4 where a motion to ask the membership - that's fans, charities, community groups, corporate members and other individual members - to pay their direct debits whilst the takeover was on hold for 12 months was carried with an 80% majority! But I absolutely believe them that they had not seen this document until it was published on the STV website and until guys like me started to post on the forum expressing my anger.

I said all along St Mirren fans were too stupid - every day just proves me more and more right. How you can continue to let Gilmour off with his shite - which is clearly stated btw - and continue to deflect blame onto a group of individuals who weren't at the meeting yesterday is just bizarre. Teflon Stew right enough!!!

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ive posted this on another topic aswell but just thought i would post again

could you guys all live without a st mirren football club? because that is what will happen if you go through with your threats....

totally understand your frustrations and i totally agree that the bullying tactics applied by the spl on the sfl are completely wrong, i too would love to see rangers in division 3. but lets think about our own beloved team here if some of you do what you have threatened to do and demand refund for season tickets, boycot games etc then there will be no st mirren. I hate rangers and everything they stood for but i love st mirren and want st mirren to continue and in order to continue more than ever we need our fans to stick behind them.

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ive posted this on another topic aswell but just thought i would post again

could you guys all live without a st mirren football club? because that is what will happen if you go through with your threats....

totally understand your frustrations and i totally agree that the bullying tactics applied by the spl on the sfl are completely wrong, i too would love to see rangers in division 3. but lets think about our own beloved team here if some of you do what you have threatened to do and demand refund for season tickets, boycot games etc then there will be no st mirren. I hate rangers and everything they stood for but i love st mirren and want st mirren to continue and in order to continue more than ever we need our fans to stick behind them.

Me? Oh aye happily - but putting that aside what is the point of being a St Mirren customer when you know that the product you are paying through the nose to see is part of a fixed league where justice is applied only on the basis of your financial importance and not on your skilful ability.

Maybe we should look at referee training again. The FIFA rulebook clearly doesn't cover it but the SPL should make it quite clear to officials that no matter what happens in a game so long as the club with the most fans win, everyone will be happy. :rolleyes:

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Me? Oh aye happily - but putting that aside what is the point of being a St Mirren customer when you know that the product you are paying through the nose to see is part of a fixed league where justice is applied only on the basis of your financial importance and not on your skilful ability.

Maybe we should look at referee training again. The FIFA rulebook clearly doesn't cover it but the SPL should make it quite clear to officials that no matter what happens in a game so long as the club with the most fans win, everyone will be happy. rolleyes.gif

fair enough mate, but i really do not want to live without st mirren and i am sure there is a hell of a lot of st mirren fans who dont want to either....

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fair enough mate, but i really do not want to live without st mirren and i am sure there is a hell of a lot of st mirren fans who dont want to either....

Over the years there have been plenty of St Mirren fans who have just drifted quietly away. They didn't renew their season tickets, they didn't buy the new strips, and then they just stopped turning up. Some stuck it out through the Coughlin years or the McPherson years watching lamentable overpriced pish. But they did all that with the belief that Sid speaks of - a belief that supporting St Mirren was a cause. Once you know that cause was bullshit, the league set up is corrupt and that everything is tainted in favour of two clubs from Glasgow I think you might be surprised at just how many will discover they can live without having to watch St Mirren every week.

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