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I choose to watch St Mirren but I have many interests in life that equally provide enjoyment. I will always love the Club but will not be taken for granted. I can find other alternatives on a Saturday that cost less and provide enjoyment rather than watching Newco rip the pish out of us. SG and the BoD and the CiC folk have to do what they have to do. Just like me.

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I choose to watch St Mirren but I have many interests in life that equally provide enjoyment. I will always love the Club but will not be taken for granted. I can find other alternatives on a Saturday that cost less and provide enjoyment rather than watching Newco rip the pish out of us. SG and the BoD and the CiC folk have to do what they have to do. Just like me.

Not long to go now...End game in sight....We will all know very soon.....If It's No Rang*rs in any league will that make you happy?

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Not long to go now...End game in sight....We will all know very soon.....If It's No Rang*rs in any league will that make you happy?

I know you aren't asking me Reborn, but just to answer it for myself anyway - no I don't think I would be happy.

Look to put you in the picture I followed the Airdrieonians case very closely. When they were liquidated and they formed the new Airdrie United they went up against a number of non league clubs for admission to the SFL at the four tier. I can't remember who all the clubs were but I think I'm right in saying there were four. Of the four Airdrie had approval to play as tenants at the brand new Shyberry Excelsior Stadium - a 10,000 seater SPL compliant ground - in a town that had proved it had a fan base of around 2,000 - 3,000 supporters. SFL chairmen decided wrongly that the better bid came from Gretna who had an owner who was pledging to throw money around whilst playing on a pitch which was barely a public park. Their decision left other SFL clubs exposed to the potential that Airdrie United would become predatory in order to purchase a place back in the SFL and as it transpired Airdrie United succeeded when it bought Clydebank off of their administrator.

Lessons have to be learned from history and for that we need an even handed approach to the application of the established practice when a Scottish Senior League club is liquidated - in that they be made to re-apply for the 42nd league spot and considered amongst other applicants. Now presuming the Newco can prove either ownership or at least papers that prove they will be the sole tenants of Ibrox Stadium - a FIFA 5 star stadium - and evidence that the Newco has a potential fan base in excess of 40,000 then surely that bid has to be better than one that would admit Spartans, no matter how ambitious and well run they are. And if that application isn't subsequently rubber stamped then all you are doing is pushing the Oldco Rangers fanbase into a situation where they have no choice but to become predatory in the same way Airdrie United became - and the net result could see Rangers back in the SPL far more quickly as they buy up the likes of a St Mirren, Kilmarnock or a Motherwell.

IMO there shouldn't be the blood lust that we are seeing for retribution against Rangers. What we should be seeing is an overwhelming pressure on the authorities and on football chairmen to ensure that all teams are treated equally. Rangers have to be treated as Airdrieonians were.

Edited by Stuart Dickson

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Gilmour was St Mirren's representative at the meeting yesterday. Gilmour has stated that he would support a two tier league featuring just 26 senior professional football teams. Gilmour has been quoted directly in the PDE claiming that he knew he would vote no to Rangers in the SPL long before the 10000hours vote. It's Gilmour who is taking everyone for a ride and the sad fact is that some are still willing to shovel up his shite and eat it.

I've cancelled my direct debit to 10000hours because I am concerned at the way the group is being run. I cannot understand why they haven't withdrawn from the sale and told the consortium that if there are such dire financial consequences just around the corner they would prefer to protect their membership and retain the Direct Debits for such times as when the football club is in administration and it needs bailing out. I cannot understand why 10000hours would seek to protect the consortium from the clearly stupid and irresponsible financial mismanagement that they have clearly indulged in over the past 12 months and beyond. And I've cancelled my direct debit because of concerns at Question 4 where a motion to ask the membership - that's fans, charities, community groups, corporate members and other individual members - to pay their direct debits whilst the takeover was on hold for 12 months was carried with an 80% majority! But I absolutely believe them that they had not seen this document until it was published on the STV website and until guys like me started to post on the forum expressing my anger.

I said all along St Mirren fans were too stupid - every day just proves me more and more right. How you can continue to let Gilmour off with his shite - which is clearly stated btw - and continue to deflect blame onto a group of individuals who weren't at the meeting yesterday is just bizarre. Teflon Stew right enough!!!

Just to take you up on your Q4 point you talk as if it was a proper motion which committed people. It wasn't and it doesn't. It amounted to little more than an opinion poll although I grant you it achieved its objective in confirming the fans' strength of feeling which we all knew anyway. I answered 'yes' to 4 but my intention is to help St.Mirren directly in my own humble way if I can. It will have nothing to do with 10,000 hours/CIC. That will have to be put on ice if it isn't already in terminal decline. I imagine quite a lot of fans feel as I do.

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There is always two sides to a story which the board will put to the fans on Monday. At the end of the day everyone of us want sporting integrity to prevail in this sorry affair.

However and it’s a big HOWEVER personally I don’t want to see clubs up and down the country having to lay off staff all because of the bloody mess created by Rangers. We are talking families with lively hood here.

Will staff from newco lose there jobs. Not a chance while players will get a big pay day for signing on somewhere down south.

This whole thing needs radical thought not decisions made over anger and hatred

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I'm sure none of us want to see people lose their jobs as a direct result of this Rangers 'situation' - but that may happen. This may sound harsh - but that prospect simply is not a reason to brush the reasons Rangers got into trouble under the carpet. We are talking about over a decade of financial doping and cheating. A prima facie case of illegal double contracts. Offences just short of match fixing. Previous owners under crminal investigation. Administrators under investigation. Threats made to SFA officials and other club's property due to comments made by Rangers manager. Rangers club ambassador marching to Hampden (OUR national stadium), and announcing that Rangers won't forget those who 'wronged them'. They took the SFA to court. They deliberately witheld paying tax and PAYE. They made zero compulsory redundancies despite needing to save one million pounds per month. They attempted to sign Daniel Cousin at 5k-7.5k per week, while their tea ladies, ticket office staff, cleaners etc were under threat of losing their jobs. Their current owner has who exactly as investors?.....

The fact anyone is even talking about what can be done 'save Rangers' is disgusting. Aside from the fact of course we aren't even 'saving Rangers'. We are discussing a newco club attempting to start up. Unbelievable. The lack of clear leadership and decision making from both the SPL and SFA is frightening. Any other club and the bullet between the eyes would have been administered weeks and weeks ago - no way would we still be going through this sordid charade.

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Agree with some of the posts on here, if Rangers start life over again anywhere bar the Scottish third division (Or lower, if league re structuring comes into place that means relegation from the third division they should be starting in the very very bottom tier) I will be cancelling my CIC subscription and will stop going to games or bying merchandise. We support this team and the team needs to support us when it comes to issues we feel so strongly on.

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I know you aren't asking me Reborn, but just to answer it for myself anyway - no I don't think I would be happy.

Look to put you in the picture I followed the Airdrieonians case very closely. When they were liquidated and they formed the new Airdrie United they went up against a number of non league clubs for admission to the SFL at the four tier. I can't remember who all the clubs were but I think I'm right in saying there were four. Of the four Airdrie had approval to play as tenants at the brand new Shyberry Excelsior Stadium - a 10,000 seater SPL compliant ground - in a town that had proved it had a fan base of around 2,000 - 3,000 supporters. SFL chairmen decided wrongly that the better bid came from Gretna who had an owner who was pledging to throw money around whilst playing on a pitch which was barely a public park. Their decision left other SFL clubs exposed to the potential that Airdrie United would become predatory in order to purchase a place back in the SFL and as it transpired Airdrie United succeeded when it bought Clydebank off of their administrator.

Lessons have to be learned from history and for that we need an even handed approach to the application of the established practice when a Scottish Senior League club is liquidated - in that they be made to re-apply for the 42nd league spot and considered amongst other applicants. Now presuming the Newco can prove either ownership or at least papers that prove they will be the sole tenants of Ibrox Stadium - a FIFA 5 star stadium - and evidence that the Newco has a potential fan base in excess of 40,000 then surely that bid has to be better than one that would admit Spartans, no matter how ambitious and well run they are. And if that application isn't subsequently rubber stamped then all you are doing is pushing the Oldco Rangers fanbase into a situation where they have no choice but to become predatory in the same way Airdrie United became - and the net result could see Rangers back in the SPL far more quickly as they buy up the likes of a St Mirren, Kilmarnock or a Motherwell.

IMO there shouldn't be the blood lust that we are seeing for retribution against Rangers. What we should be seeing is an overwhelming pressure on the authorities and on football chairmen to ensure that all teams are treated equally. Rangers have to be treated as Airdrieonians were.

I don't go for the blood lust either Stuart. Let me explain. The only point I was trying to make was... are Rangers ready and willing as a new club to join the SFA?. If they are then I have already said they should apply for 3rd Div football. I have also said they must be selected for the space before Spartans etc due to the points you highlight. Now I could be wrong (again! lol) but I have a strong feeling they will close the club down for 1 year. By that I mean Green will be able to make more money if he does this before selling the assets to a say a Walter Smith consortium. So to sum up ...I'm not calling for them to close or wait behind Spartans...It's Mr Green who is holding the cards and whether closing for 1 yr is his main plan...it must be one of his options.

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Everyone seems to be demanding that Rangers must start in Div 3. The SPL have held up their part of the bargain by refusing Newco entry into the top league. The decision on which level of entry they are handed in the SFL is down to the SFL clubs alone. If they deem the 1st Division to be the correct place for them to start, who are we to complain? I agree with everyone's disgust at the SPL bully boys meddling in this decision by issuing blatant threats to the SFL teams. The SFL should be left to get on with it themselves AND the proposed changes to league structure (SPL1/2) should be voted on separately. I'll be at the shareholders meeting on Monday asking that SMFC distance themselves from these shocking blackmail tactics. They harped on about sporting integrity when justifying refusing SPL status to Newco, then incredibly came up with this hairbrained scheme to get them back up ASAP. Double standards of the worst kind. Not in my name Mr G.

Having said all the above, I want to hear the full story before passing judgement on anyone. In particular I want to know how the tv money was divvied up last season and what Sky are going to do next season. They must know by now, as Newco are confirmed out of the SPL. I think some of the scaremongering "£800k loss if Sky pull out" stories will be shown up to be a fabrication.

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i cannot believe what i am reading on these forums, st mirren supporters sound like they are seriously considering turning there back on there team???

Mr Gilmour is not st mirren, st mirren is about the history, the town, the people and the fans and is a club we all love, so if you have issues with him/the board go along like myself on monday and tuesday are air them directly to them.

but by not going to games or cancelling season tickets do you guys not realise that that WILL KILL ST MIRREN, and surely none of you want that seriously ???

All of us are agreed that reangers have done wrong and deserve to be punished and hoepfully the SFL can make up there own minds and i trust them to force them into the 3rd division.

but this is about st mirren now not rangers, dont let our club be another victim, we need more fans at this moment in time not less !!

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i cannot believe what i am reading on these forums, st mirren supporters sound like they are seriously considering turning there back on there team???

Mr Gilmour is not st mirren, st mirren is about the history, the town, the people and the fans and is a club we all love, so if you have issues with him/the board go along like myself on monday and tuesday are air them directly to them.

but by not going to games or cancelling season tickets do you guys not realise that that WILL KILL ST MIRREN, and surely none of you want that seriously ???

All of us are agreed that reangers have done wrong and deserve to be punished and hoepfully the SFL can make up there own minds and i trust them to force them into the 3rd division.

but this is about st mirren now not rangers, dont let our club be another victim, we need more fans at this moment in time not less !!

I agree with what your saying however i feel these actions are needed to show how strongly we all feel. A powerful message is needed so that our team make sporting integrity paramount in all decisions. I think our club will do the right thing in all senses (Eventually) and it won't come down to cancelling season tickets.

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Everyone seems to be demanding that Rangers must start in Div 3. The SPL have held up their part of the bargain by refusing Newco entry into the top league. The decision on which level of entry they are handed in the SFL is down to the SFL clubs alone. If they deem the 1st Division to be the correct place for them to start, who are we to complain? I agree with everyone's disgust at the SPL bully boys meddling in this decision by issuing blatant threats to the SFL teams. The SFL should be left to get on with it themselves AND the proposed changes to league structure (SPL1/2) should be voted on separately. I'll be at the shareholders meeting on Monday asking that SMFC distance themselves from these shocking blackmail tactics. They harped on about sporting integrity when justifying refusing SPL status to Newco, then incredibly came up with this hairbrained scheme to get them back up ASAP. Double standards of the worst kind. Not in my name Mr G.

Having said all the above, I want to hear the full story before passing judgement on anyone. In particular I want to know how the tv money was divvied up last season and what Sky are going to do next season. They must know by now, as Newco are confirmed out of the SPL. I think some of the scaremongering "£800k loss if Sky pull out" stories will be shown up to be a fabrication.

You are going to be told that if Rangers aren't put into the second tier of Scottish League football Sky and other Commercial Partners of the SPL will cancel their contracts and will be due a refund / compensation of some of the monies already paid. You are going to be told that a large portion of this money was paid out by the SPL to all member clubs and that it has been spent. You are also going to be told that when the refund is due the SPL will have to make up oldco Rangers share of the money as the SPL would be the creditors of Sky, and the SPL would become creditors of the now liquidated Rangers. You will be told that if the SFL won't put Rangers in the second tier of the game St Mirren will immediately be put heavily into debt and with no potential lines of credit that would force the club into administration.

You will then be told that because the current directors of St Mirren FC have failed to manage the club with fiscal prudence that you should all just hold your nose and accept the bullying of SFL clubs and you will be told this so that Gilmour, McAusland, Campbell, Marshall and Purvies can walk away with a substantial payment from 10000hours members who will have paid circa £1.2m in return for a f**ked football club that is no longer financially viable. And you will be told there is no other option.

There is another option. That is that 10000hours pull out of the sale - let the club go into administration and it then uses the money that would have been paid to the consortium to repay the creditors. We get the community ownership that is the future of the game in Scotland, and Gilmour and his mates get exactly what they deserve for putting St Mirren into this situation.

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i cannot believe what i am reading on these forums, st mirren supporters sound like they are seriously considering turning there back on there team???

Mr Gilmour is not st mirren, st mirren is about the history, the town, the people and the fans and is a club we all love, so if you have issues with him/the board go along like myself on monday and tuesday are air them directly to them.

but by not going to games or cancelling season tickets do you guys not realise that that WILL KILL ST MIRREN, and surely none of you want that seriously ???

All of us are agreed that reangers have done wrong and deserve to be punished and hoepfully the SFL can make up there own minds and i trust them to force them into the 3rd division.

but this is about st mirren now not rangers, dont let our club be another victim, we need more fans at this moment in time not less !!

This is emotive pish. If St Mirren go into administration it will not "Kill" St Mirren.

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You are going to be told that if Rangers aren't put into the second tier of Scottish League football Sky and other Commercial Partners of the SPL will cancel their contracts and will be due a refund / compensation of some of the monies already paid. You are going to be told that a large portion of this money was paid out by the SPL to all member clubs and that it has been spent. You are also going to be told that when the refund is due the SPL will have to make up oldco Rangers share of the money as the SPL would be the creditors of Sky, and the SPL would become creditors of the now liquidated Rangers. You will be told that if the SFL won't put Rangers in the second tier of the game St Mirren will immediately be put heavily into debt and with no potential lines of credit that would force the club into administration.

You will then be told that because the current directors of St Mirren FC have failed to manage the club with fiscal prudence that you should all just hold your nose and accept the bullying of SFL clubs and you will be told this so that Gilmour, McAusland, Campbell, Marshall and Purvies can walk away with a substantial payment from 10000hours members who will have paid circa £1.2m in return for a f**ked football club that is no longer financially viable. And you will be told there is no other option.

There is another option. That is that 10000hours pull out of the sale - let the club go into administration and it then uses the money that would have been paid to the consortium to repay the creditors. We get the community ownership that is the future of the game in Scotland, and Gilmour and his mates get exactly what they deserve for putting St Mirren into this situation.

Thank god I don't have to rely on your input to run my business.

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If you run your business like the way SPL clubs have been running theirs - then thank f**k I don't work for you.....rolleyes.gif

If you run your business like the way SPL clubs have been running theirs - then thank f**k I don't work for you.....rolleyes.gif

You wouldn't fit in with the company I work for, given that they are the most successful independent in their particular field uk wide. so jog on with your own personal agenda and stupid ideas on how to run a business.

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You wouldn't fit in with the company I work for, given that they are the most successful independent in their particular field uk wide. so jog on with your own personal agenda and stupid ideas on how to run a business.

Ok so you tell me then. If you were interested in taking over a company and you knew it was in financial trouble would you be paying the current directors £1.2m for a 52% shareholding, or would you keep your pen and your cheque in your tail and wait until the administrator is called in?

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I'm sure none of us want to see people lose their jobs as a direct result of this Rangers 'situation' - but that may happen. This may sound harsh - but that prospect simply is not a reason to brush the reasons Rangers got into trouble under the carpet. We are talking about over a decade of financial doping and cheating. A prima facie case of illegal double contracts. Offences just short of match fixing. Previous owners under crminal investigation. Administrators under investigation. Threats made to SFA officials and other club's property due to comments made by Rangers manager. Rangers club ambassador marching to Hampden (OUR national stadium), and announcing that Rangers won't forget those who 'wronged them'. They took the SFA to court. They deliberately witheld paying tax and PAYE. They made zero compulsory redundancies despite needing to save one million pounds per month. They attempted to sign Daniel Cousin at 5k-7.5k per week, while their tea ladies, ticket office staff, cleaners etc were under threat of losing their jobs. Their current owner has who exactly as investors?.....

The fact anyone is even talking about what can be done 'save Rangers' is disgusting. Aside from the fact of course we aren't even 'saving Rangers'. We are discussing a newco club attempting to start up. Unbelievable. The lack of clear leadership and decision making from both the SPL and SFA is frightening. Any other club and the bullet between the eyes would have been administered weeks and weeks ago - no way would we still be going through this sordid charade.

This is like an Island of sense in what is becoming a sea of p*sh.

We need to focus on the real issues which are well highlighted in your post and not be sidetracked by the propoganda and threats coming from the boardrooms/heirarchy.thumbup2.gif

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This is emotive pish. If St Mirren go into administration it will not "Kill" St Mirren.

unlike you ime a st mirren fan so of course i am concerned that if we go into administration it could KILL our club, of course it could there is never any guarantees that you can get out of administration without liquidation , as rangers have just proven

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unlike you ime a st mirren fan so of course i am concerned that if we go into administration it could KILL our club, of course it could there is never any guarantees that you can get out of administration without liquidation , as rangers have just proven

I am really starting to wonder what your real motives are here.

Is it to encourage people to follow Saints? Or is it an attempt to deflect from the issues and, by way of suggesting the demise of Rangers, (which, in case you didn't know, has already happened), will kill all clubs throughout the northern hemisphere given they are all but omnipitent in your blue eyes, make sure the surge of support for the right course of action is diluted somewhat?

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I am really starting to wonder what your real motives are here.

Is it to encourage people to follow Saints? Or is it an attempt to deflect from the issues and, by way of suggesting the demise of Rangers, (which, in case you didn't know, has already happened), will kill all clubs throughout the northern hemisphere given they are all but omnipitent in your blue eyes, make sure the surge of support for the right course of action is diluted somewhat?

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unlike you ime a st mirren fan so of course i am concerned that if we go into administration it could KILL our club, of course it could there is never any guarantees that you can get out of administration without liquidation , as rangers have just proven

Ok, well here's a thought for you to take to meetings on Monday and Tuesday. If the club want to avoid administration, why don't Stewart Gilmour, Bryan McAusland, George Campbell, Evelyn Purves and Alan Marshall all agree to hand over their shares to 10000hours free of charge. The shares will be worthless in September anyway if Div is right and the club is destined for administration so why not cut out the opportunity for accountants and lawyers to get their cut, and just do the right thing now.

Then 10000hours will have no need for social funding, no interest rates to pay, and they'll have £11,000 of membership funds per month, and a lump sum from the 87's members to use as a fighting fund that might just see St Mirren come through the season unscathed with the opportunity then to either cut the playing budget or/and to get revenue streams coming into the club from social activies.

Surely with the consortium being filled with such St Mirren legends, all of whom as so passionate about the club will be quite happy to relinquish their stewardship easing these enormous health problems they are building up for themselves safe in the knowledge that their stewardship didn't actually bury the club.

Edited by Stuart Dickson

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I very much agree with all gazmc83 comments. We are all agreed that Rangers have to be punished absolutely no doubts about it whatsoever but come on we are all saints supporters surely we are not going to give up on our beloved club. This mess is Rangers fault not St Mirrens. My wife son and I have all renewed our season tickets at considerable cost and have no intentions whatsoever of asking for refunds.Moreover we have all signed up for 10000hours and will not cancel our direct debits. This is about supporting our club as I have done for the past 60 years. Saints need more fans not less. It is a disgrace that in a town the size of Paisley and its surrounding areas that we cannot get at least 5000/6000 home fans at our matches. If there is a problem with TV income this coming season then surely it is plain for everyone to see that we will have a major problem meeting our contractural obligations. I will be at the Shareholders Meeting on Monday and will be interested in what SG has to say. In the meantime lets all be positive and remember that in our first two league matches we have two senior players suspended and Danny will be forced to make up the squad with youngsters unless we have more signings. So come on everyone this Newco thing will take care of itself hopefully and we can all look forward to next season. It goes without saying that all non OF firms have a dislike for what they stand for and hopefully soon this will be no more at some stage in the future. In the meantime "Come on the Saints".

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