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10000hours

10000Hours Statement On Recent Events

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It is not a CIC meeting. It is a meeting organised by the Club Board for Shareholders/Season Ticket Holders and Supporters. If anyone is in any of those categories then come along

I appreciate that Richard, but I am not in any of the clubs categories so I won't be there.

Edited by Stuart Dickson

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I think you'll find that the concern isn't really about what Sky do under their existing contact. I think you'll find that the reason for the panic, and the reason SPL Chairmen are so desperate to have Rangers just one tier below the top flight is that the contract is due for renewal for the start of the 2013-14 season and without 4 "Rangers" v Celtic clashes of some description in the league that contract is going to be worth a great deal less.

Fair enough. That gives St Mirren, and all other clubs, a year to cut their cloth accordingly. I suggested elsewhere on here that, as part of the takeover, we budget to be a first division club and that we see anything else as a bonus. I see no reason to change that.

If Kilmarnock want to carry on spending despite their debt (the Brighthouse approach) then they'll be trying to chase Rangers up the leagues in year's time.

Edit: the fact is, the 'value' of Scottish football has been over-inflated courtesy of Rangers' cheating anyway. The TV deal should reflect what the product is worth. Less money will need to come into the clubs because they're not trying to play catch-up with f**king debt cheats like Rangers and (eventually, hopefully) Killie.

Celtic will win stuff for a couple of years, then get bored and will weaken as the cut in TV money bites and fans drift away, bored of having nobody to scream bile at.

This whole thing should represents the chance to end the Old Firm hegemony: it might take a few years, but all I care about is that Saints can emerge on the other side.

Edited by Magic Monkey

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Not sure where to post this very simple question, but it's been bugging me for a while.

There seems to be a view that Rangers newco must be in the SPL ASAP, or there's going to be a danger that Scottish professional football will die.

What happens if Green is a crook, cannot / does not set up a viable newco Rangers, and they do a Third Lanark? What happens if they are shoe-horned into a new dodgy Div 1, but fail to win promotion? What happens if they finish bottom of any dodgy new Div 1?

Beats me.

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Not sure where to post this very simple question, but it's been bugging me for a while.

There seems to be a view that Rangers newco must be in the SPL ASAP, or there's going to be a danger that Scottish professional football will die.

What happens if Green is a crook, cannot / does not set up a viable newco Rangers, and they do a Third Lanark? What happens if they are shoe-horned into a new dodgy Div 1, but fail to win promotion? What happens if they finish bottom of any dodgy new Div 1?

Beats me.

Newco's blawbag Murray has been in the press telling scumgers fans to buy season tickets or they are heading for financial meltdown. All the chat about impending doom for scottish football to try and support these idiots isn't doing any club any favours.

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we should have a four question vote on the impact of that, you know just to test the feeling out there.

1. Should the car park be open?

2. If the car park were to open, and the requirement to make the necessary arrangements to facilitate this incurred a cost to the club in excess of a projected estimate figure of £200, should the car park be open?

3. If the car park were to open, and a truculent steward abused a patron who subsequently complained to the club and demanded compensation as a result of distress caused, should the car park be open?

4. Would it be easier to park on Murray Street?

Edited by Drew

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I keep saying this, but someone needs to get the boot into Sky. They are holding all the cards, but everyone's shit scared of dealing with them, apparently.

Where's the public pressure on Sky? Does Sky TV support sporting integrity or doesn't it? I know it's a business, I know it's a particularly immoral one at that, but surely it must see the damage that supporting a Newco would do? Walking away from Scottish football because it has punished an organisation for not paying taxes would send all the wrong messages about what Sky TV values in society.

Exactly. They are the key to this.

Many of us bump our gums about the negative influence of TV on football, yet how many of us who are outraged at Newco going into Division 1 subscribe to Sky? How many matches do we watch on television every week?

If we didn't watch football on television then there would be no market for Sky, SPL clubs wouldn't be dependent on their money and Newco would be sent into Division 3 without fuss. We're culpable too.

That's where football is now. We've helped make it this way and we can't just cast aside the issue of TV money when considering how to deal with Newco.

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1. Should the car park be open?

2. If the car park were to open, and the requirement to make the necessary arrangements to facilitate this incurred a cost to the club in excess of a projected estimate figure of £200, should the car park be open?

3. If the car park were to open, and a truculent steward abused a patron who subsequently complained to the club and demanded compensation as a result of distress caused, should the car park be open?

4. Would it be easier to park on Murray Street?

5. If someone drives up wearing a Rangers top, do we hastily create a new car park for them by using one of the 5-a-side pitches so that they can access the main stand quicker than any other fans.

OOOH, bitch.

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Guest somner9

1. Should the car park be open?

2. If the car park were to open, and the requirement to make the necessary arrangements to facilitate this incurred a cost to the club in excess of a projected estimate figure of £200, should the car park be open?

3. If the car park were to open, and a truculent steward abused a patron who subsequently complained to the club and demanded compensation as a result of distress caused, should the car park be open?

4. Would it be easier to park on Murray Street?

That's the spirit!

So are the pitchforks back on ice, and the witch chucking-in station on the cart mothballed for the moment fellow villagers?

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Many of us bump our gums about the negative influence of TV on football, yet how many of us who are outraged at Newco going into Division 1 subscribe to Sky? How many matches do we watch on television every week?

Speak for your spineless self JB....I have given VM notice of my intention to cancel as have many other football fans according to the 'well supporting contact centre chap who called me back about it.

I would imagine SKY are getting even more notices to cancel. Just because you haven't done it doesn't mean other fans haven't. I did that before I renewed my season ticket.

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Guest somner9

Fair enough. That gives St Mirren, and all other clubs, a year to cut their cloth accordingly. I suggested elsewhere on here that, as part of the takeover, we budget to be a first division club and that we see anything else as a bonus. I see no reason to change that.

If Kilmarnock want to carry on spending despite their debt (the Brighthouse approach) then they'll be trying to chase Rangers up the leagues in year's time.

Edit: the fact is, the 'value' of Scottish football has been over-inflated courtesy of Rangers' cheating anyway. The TV deal should reflect what the product is worth. Less money will need to come into the clubs because they're not trying to play catch-up with f**king debt cheats like Rangers and (eventually, hopefully) Killie.

Celtic will win stuff for a couple of years, then get bored and will weaken as the cut in TV money bites and fans drift away, bored of having nobody to scream bile at.

This whole thing should represents the chance to end the Old Firm hegemony: it might take a few years, but all I care about is that Saints can emerge on the other side.

The time may come when in a purely business arrangement we inform sky/espn and any other sponsor that cuts and runs that it will work both ways in scotland, and they can expect a double whammy when the subscriptions are cancelled etc, etc

Shine the big gun now so they can see it, show them how powerful it is, what range and impact it has. But don't fire until you really need too!

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Fair enough. That gives St Mirren, and all other clubs, a year to cut their cloth accordingly. I suggested elsewhere on here that, as part of the takeover, we budget to be a first division club and that we see anything else as a bonus. I see no reason to change that.

If Kilmarnock want to carry on spending despite their debt (the Brighthouse approach) then they'll be trying to chase Rangers up the leagues in year's time.

Yeah, that's what I had hoped 10000hours were hinting at in the poll. i.e that the club would lose revenue in year one, but with re-adjustment of the budget the losses could be turned around into profit by year two, and that you could probably reduce and clear any deficit created gradually over a number of years. However if you look at deed and action it appears that they (the SPL Chairmen) don't believe this can be done without the revenue that comes from a Sky deal based on four "Rangers" v Celtic league matches in a season.

I've said elsewhere several times that the logical solution for me was to restructure the leagues into two divisions. A top flight of 20 and a second tier of 22 - Newco Rangers going in as Scotlands 42nd club. This would retain sporting integrity and allow the possibility of a Rangers return in year two. That structure gives top teams 38 matches per season playing each other twice and getting rid of the stupid league split that makes the league a farce. However reading Gilmours statement it seems pretty clear that it's important to SPL chairmen that even if you are going to restructure the league it has to be in a manner that still leaves the potential for four Old Firm derbies per season.

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Exactly. They are the key to this.

Many of us bump our gums about the negative influence of TV on football, yet how many of us who are outraged at Newco going into Division 1 subscribe to Sky? How many matches do we watch on television every week?

If we didn't watch football on television then there would be no market for Sky, SPL clubs wouldn't be dependent on their money and Newco would be sent into Division 3 without fuss. We're culpable too.

That's where football is now. We've helped make it this way and we can't just cast aside the issue of TV money when considering how to deal with Newco.

Ah.

I see what the problem is now. It's ALL your fault. :)

I AM not culpable in any way because I do not have SKY. I have a life that doesn't solely revolve around television, football and St Mirren.

I'm glad that it's not me who is to blame for the meltdown of Scottish football and I now understand why some people are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.

My thoughts are with you Julian B... :(

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I'm not cancelling our Sky subscription. The clue is in the word 'our'. This isn't just about me and my obsession with 11 men kicking a bag of wind around a football pitch, and it isn't just about the football on the Sky Sports channels. Sorry darling, but wave goodbye to the NFL, Mad Men, and all those Sky Arts Bruce Springsteen shows from last week....

Poz /Death interface situation.

Edited by pozbaird

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Exactly. They are the key to this.

Many of us bump our gums about the negative influence of TV on football, yet how many of us who are outraged at Newco going into Division 1 subscribe to Sky? How many matches do we watch on television every week?

If we didn't watch football on television then there would be no market for Sky, SPL clubs wouldn't be dependent on their money and Newco would be sent into Division 3 without fuss. We're culpable too.

That's where football is now. We've helped make it this way and we can't just cast aside the issue of TV money when considering how to deal with Newco.

But Sky haven't done anything wrong. The issue is what the value of Scottish League Football is to them and viewing figures would back up the claim that it's worth next to nothing without some form of Old Firm derby.

I'll still be paying my Sky Sports subscription next season, I won't be paying admission to SPL football matches though. It's the SPL who are acting in a corrupt manner, not the TV companies.

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I'm not cancelling our Sky subscription. The clue is in the word 'our'. This isn't just about me and my obsession with 11 men kicking a bag of wind around a football pitch, and it isn't just about the football on the Sky Sports channels. Sorry darling, but wave goodbye to the NFL, Mad Men, and all those Sky Arts Bruce Springsteen shows from last week....

Poz /Death interface situation.

LOL,

Aye same here - only I'm not so scared of the wife, The issue is we've got four Sky HD boxes and the withdrawal of Sky would mean a greater likely hood of our teenage children making an appearance out of their bedrooms. I don't think I could handle that. whistling.gif

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Actually, I have never once had a subscription to Sky. Was more to do with Rupert Murdoch than football though. Integrity and all that. wub.png

I do watch Freeview football on TV though and Sky, ESPN matches in the pub sometimes. I did my wee bit for TV's creeping influence on the game in the past 20 years. As has everyone who posts to this forum I would say.

What we're seeing now is people who have enjoyed all of that suddenly take the moral high ground when the importance of TV money on football has become explicit.

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But Sky haven't done anything wrong.

No, but we've let them become entwined with our game and we're now seeing the direct consequences of that i.e. SPL clubs voting for Rangers to go in 1st division. Many people see that as being wrong and it all goes back to the influence of Sky.

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No, but we've let them become entwined with our game and we're now seeing the direct consequences of that i.e. SPL clubs voting for Rangers to go in 1st division. Many people see that as being wrong and it all goes back to the influence of Sky.

What we are seeing is the consequences of that Sky TV money not being put to a sustainable use in the Scottish game. Instead of investing in decent youth programmes and initiatives that brought more kids into football grounds, the TV money was pissed up against a wall as clubs fell over themselves to pay ridiculous sums of money to anyone with a foreign sounding name who owned a pair of football boots.

It is the short termism that SPL Chairmen have applied to everything that is the problem here not the TV money. Even in this case they can't grasp the fact that when other popular sports have been revealed to be a sham that their viewing figures slum dramatically too. I cited the days of UK Wrestling when Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks used to sell out Wembley Arena, and they had a £multi million TV deal on ITV. These days they struggle to get 200 into the back street Wakefield venue where they film bouts for some unheard of channel in the 200's on a Sky box.

Fixing the Scottish Football Leagues to chase Sky TV money will only harm the credibility of the Scottish game, and in return that's bound to have a long term detrimental effect on advertising and TV revenue. Fans boycotting Sky is pointless especially since Sky could quite comfortably cope without Scottish Football on it's channels. Fans boycotting their football clubs, and SPL football - well we've seen that's exactly what forces action.

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No, but we've let them become entwined with our game and we're now seeing the direct consequences of that i.e. SPL clubs voting for Rangers to go in 1st division. Many people see that as being wrong and it all goes back to the influence of Sky.

It is wrong, but more so on the part of the SPL and the club chairmen who accepted such a ludicrous contract as 'four OF games a season' in a league with a split and for relying their budgets so heavily on that money, considering this exact scenario has been rippling beneath the surface for almost three years now.

Sky will cut the best deal they possibly can, that's their prerogative. It's the SPL's fault for the desperation kicking in when Setanta died that they'd sign any contract placed in front of them.

I fail to understand how they can confidently predict losses of up to £16m without NewCo, yet none of them even let it cross their mind of there being a faint possibility that Rangers' financial issues may come back and throw a spanner in this entire works.

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Ah.

I see what the problem is now. It's ALL your fault. :)

I AM not culpable in any way because I do not have SKY. I have a life that doesn't solely revolve around television, football and St Mirren.

I'm glad that it's not me who is to blame for the meltdown of Scottish football and I now understand why some people are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.

My thoughts are with you Julian B... :(

I don't even OWN a telly :) I am EVEN MORE absolved of any responsibility!

:D

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I AM not culpable in any way because I do not have SKY. I have a life that doesn't solely revolve around television, football and St Mirren.

This!

****************

No to Newco in the SPL

No to Newco in a SFL 1 / SPL 2 lovechild.

Let them take their chances with Sp*rt*ns etc

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