Nero Blanco Fund Launched

[div]

News update from 10000Hours on the launch of the "Nero Blanco" fund and also confirming that all member direct debit first payments scheduled for July 31st have been pushed back to August 31st.

http://www.10000hour...o-fund-launched

[St. Sid]

Div, why not just do this through SMiSA who appear to have already launched a very similar "project"?

Its just getting stupid now.

[Drew]

TBH, I'd have been in a position to donate more on a monthly basis as opposed to a one-off.

Can I make a regular 'one-off' payment - ie: will this fund be kept live on an ongoing basis?

On Sid's point, does it really matter who the money goes through if it is going to the club at the end of the day?

[colinorr]

Good idea but nero blanco does sound more like a brand of coffee.

So when it says 10,000 Hours still plans to take DD payments on 31 August, does this mean they hope to have the share purchase concluded by then?

[div]

TBH, I'd have been in a position to donate more on a monthly basis as opposed to a one-off.

Can I make a regular 'one-off' payment - ie: will this fund be kept live on an ongoing basis?

On Sid's point, does it really matter who the money goes through if it is going to the club at the end of the day?

Of course you can donate as many times as you like, whenever you like.

[Drew]

Of course you can donate as many times as you like, whenever you like.

Ta - that suits me (I take it I'll only have to email 10,000Hours once, though? )

[div]

Ta - that suits me (I take it I'll only have to email 10,000Hours once, though? )

Yes sir !

[div]

Good idea but nero blanco does sound more like a brand of coffee.

So when it says 10,000 Hours still plans to take DD payments on 31 August, does this mean they hope to have the share purchase concluded by then?

Would be an excellent cuppa as well I am sure !

The dilemma faced was whether to crack on and take the direct debits on 31st July as planned or just to push it back so that members know 100% for sure that their funds are being used expressly for the purposes we said they would be used for.

After a lot of discussion we decided it would be better just to push back but there is certainly no reason why we cannot conclude the deal before end of August.

All we need is clarity on the landscape the club is going to be operating in, then we can confirm our funding and our offer to the selling consortium.

The final decision on selling of course will be theirs to make and there is still another party interested in the shares as far as I am aware.

[div]

Div, why not just do this through SMiSA who appear to have already launched a very similar "project"?

Its just getting stupid now.

There have been discussions between 10000Hours and SMiSA over the past few days John.

We are simply offering our members, and anyone else who wants to, the use of our existing technology to make online payments to a fund. The stuff is already all setup, all the hard work has been done to make the payments side easy and simple. Seems daft not to use it.

I am guessing SMiSA may do more on the actual fundraising side through events etc as well as perhaps inviting donations. Not sure.

Either way by pushing back our direct debits we have given our 1,000+ members the opportunity to either give their first month donation to Nero Blanco or to SMiSA, whichever they prefer. Or they may just keep their money, entirely up to each individual to decide.

If we are not successful in buying the club, then we will pass our Nero Blanco money over to SMiSA.

We want to work WITH SMiSA, not against them.

[ck1]

I agree with helping out the club with the £10 per month DD.

But I still think we need to know how much is the club going to be sold for now ,surely not at the value that it was before i.e £1.5 million.

Are WE 10000 hrs going to review the asking price ??

[div]

I agree with helping out the club with the £10 per month DD.

But I still think we need to know how much is the club going to be sold for now ,surely not at the value that it was before i.e £1.5 million.

Are WE 10000 hrs going to review the asking price ??

We are not drawing down the 10000Hours membership direct debit at this point. Nero Blanco is a way for fans to give single (or multiple if they want) donations to a fund that will be separate from the funds that have been pledged to buy the club.

I am sure that is what you meant but important to clarify that point I think.

We aren't in a position to review the asking price, we can only review our own offer !

It will be up to the selling consortium to review their asking price based on both changes to the revenue model the football club is operating in and/or in light of financial assistance given to the club from a 3rd party like ourselves and/or SMiSA.

[civilsaint]

Bit disappointed have read both 10000hrs and SMISA statements tbh. Donate money and ask no questions? Supporting the club blindly does not sound like a wise plan to me. Surely both these groups should asking for reassurances before pledging hard cash.

They should start by requesting that the club make their position clear with regard to SPL2 and the Settlement Agreement.

The club have not yet done enough to deserve fans' hard earned cash. Simple questions should be answered publicly.

Clyde on the other hand deserve every penny their fans can afford.

For what it is worth I actually quite like the scheme and the statement. Sort out the fundamental issue and it could be a winner both for 10000hrs and SMFC.

[colinorr]

Would be an excellent cuppa as well I am sure !

The dilemma faced was whether to crack on and take the direct debits on 31st July as planned or just to push it back so that members know 100% for sure that their funds are being used expressly for the purposes we said they would be used for.

After a lot of discussion we decided it would be better just to push back but there is certainly no reason why we cannot conclude the deal before end of August.

All we need is clarity on the landscape the club is going to be operating in, then we can confirm our funding and our offer to the selling consortium.

The final decision on selling of course will be theirs to make and there is still another party interested in the shares as far as I am aware.

Cheers for that Div

Appreciate what you're saying, but surely 10000 Hours falling well short of the targets would be a good reason why the deal might not conclude?

Either way, I can't help but feel a time of financial turmoil can't be the best point to hand the club over to new owners with an untested way of working.

I appreciate it's their decision to make and they would have to go back on previous statements, but I can't help but feel the club would benefit by having the existing board staying in place - at least for the next few months - to keep an experienced set of hands on the wheel while finances are up the air.

They could still work with 10000 Hours in the meantime and look to conclude the deal at a later date.

[pozbaird]

I viewed my monthly DD, originally scheduled to come off on July 31 as helping both 10000hours get their bid through, AND helping the football club, because it is the start of a new era, after a long period of 'traditional ownership'. I would have been happy to see that monthly amount go to a Nero Blanco fund, until such times as the deal itself is concluded. Incidentally, we really need to dig up a signing target called Nero Blanco now... hope Brian Caldwell is onto some agents!

Anyway. I am also happy to donate to this new double espresso with a dash of milk fund - but not at this moment in time. Not until SFL clubs vote. Not until Longmuir, Regan and Doncaster stop fannying around. Not until I know if any of those three muppets will still attempt to gerrymander a Div 1 place for the Sevco Works XI. Not until I know 100% with NO scope for further whataboutery which division the tax dodging cheats will be in. Not until Sky say something. Not until these 'wavering' corporate sponsors speak out. Not until the new season kicks off and we are speaking in hard, fast, monetary loss terms - rather than Neil Doncaster and the SPL suits giving me a vision of armageddon, that even Bruce Willis armed with two space shuttles and a nuclear warhead couldn't fix.

In short, I'll do whatever I can to help 10000hours / St Mirren - but I am sick of trying to cut through what may or may not be bullshit from the three organisations who are frankly getting right on my tits big time.

[ck1]

We are not drawing down the 10000Hours membership direct debit at this point. Nero Blanco is a way for fans to give single (or multiple if they want) donations to a fund that will be separate from the funds that have been pledged to buy the club.

I am sure that is what you meant but important to clarify that point I think.

We aren't in a position to review the asking price, we can only review our own offer !

It will be up to the selling consortium to review their asking price based on both changes to the revenue model the football club is operating in and/or in light of financial assistance given to the club from a 3rd party like ourselves and/or SMiSA.

Yes I understand that but however 10000 hrs must have an idea of what we are going to pay for the club, also what will be drawn from the accounts on 31st of Aug when we don't know what we are going to offer ! More questions to be answered I'm afraid

[Evil_Panda]

have any of the major sponsors actually came out and said they will be re-negotiating their contracts as yet? all this scaremongering is actually giving the sponsors the green light to cut their funding. its almost like the rest of the SPL is actively encouraging sponsors to pull out.

instead of concentrating on the negatives, the SPL/chairmen should be congratulating the sponsors in their continued support instead of accusing them of pulling out. which none have done so far.

im impressed that the membership (85.3%) have agreed to hand over even more money to subsidise the league sponsors pulling out. in countries like germany its the sponsors that subsidise the fans allowing for cheaper entrance yet in scotland its a total reverse.

best of luck to 10k hours, smisa, and the support, their continued enthusiasm in all this is commendable.

[Evil_Panda]

I viewed my monthly DD, originally scheduled to come off on July 31 as helping both 10000hours get their bid through, AND helping the football club, because it is the start of a new era, after a long period of 'traditional ownership'. I would have been happy to see that monthly amount go to a Nero Blanco fund, until such times as the deal itself is concluded. Incidentally, we really need to dig up a signing target called Nero Blanco now... hope Brian Caldwell is onto some agents!

Anyway. I am also happy to donate to this new double espresso with a dash of milk fund - but not at this moment in time. Not until SFL clubs vote. Not until Longmuir, Regan and Doncaster stop fannying around. Not until I know if any of those three muppets will still attempt to gerrymander a Div 1 place for the Sevco Works XI. Not until I know 100% with NO scope for further whataboutery which division the tax dodging cheats will be in. Not until Sky say something. Not until these 'wavering' corporate sponsors speak out. Not until the new season kicks off and we are speaking in hard, fast, monetary loss terms - rather than Neil Doncaster and the SPL suits giving me a vision of armageddon, that even Bruce Willis armed with two space shuttles and a nuclear warhead couldn't fix.

In short, I'll do whatever I can to help 10000hours / St Mirren - but I am sick of trying to cut through what may or may not be bullshit from the three organisations who are frankly getting right on my tits big time.

take it you werent in the 83.5% then?

[pozbaird]

take it you werent in the 83.5% then?

Sorry, I genuinely have a really thumping headache today! Not sure what your point is? I don't mean that in a cheeky way - I am maybe missing the obvious?

[Guest somner9]

Just when you thought there was no appetite for fund raising schemes FOUR! come along at once...

Smisa

Smisa (new)

10000 hours

Point Nero Blanco

WTF???

the over riding factor for me and doubtless a few others is no one as far as I can tell knows what situation the club will face yet, in the upcoming season as regards finances and income. So since we don't know what is required and when, would it not be wise to ascertain that first, then IF required donate/pledge/take part in whatever works re: fundraising activities?

For example as someone here has mentioned if the SFL say Div 3 newco, there is a suggestion that the spl will go straight to Spl 1 and 2. in that scenario there may well be little drop off in tv/sponsor revenues as scumco would be in SPL 2.

Up to each to decide for themselves, but surely you need a target to aim for? We don't know where it's been painted yet.

[Evil_Panda]

Sorry, I genuinely have a really thumping headache today! Not sure what your point is? I don't mean that in a cheeky way - I am maybe missing the obvious?

no, it might just be me, ive had a total overload of takeovers and sevco recently that im totally scunnered.

what i mean is that, gilmour basically told the fans that the best outcome would be for sevco to be fast-tracked into the 1st division and the majority of the support agreed, and to plug the funding gap 83.5% of the membership were happy for the bid to go on hold but to start handing over the subs in any case?

have i got that all right?

so, i guessed you answered no to question 4 was all i meant.

[div]

Yes I understand that but however 10000 hrs must have an idea of what we are going to pay for the club, also what will be drawn from the accounts on 31st of Aug when we don't know what we are going to offer ! More questions to be answered I'm afraid

10000Hours have already made an offer to the selling consortium..

That offer was made based on the financial commitments we had from our members.

We were not able to make the full £1.5m offer that had previously been agreed in principal as we did come up short in two of the three member categories.

The surplus we had in the other category did however allow us however to make a substantial 7 figure offer.

That offer includes some funding that is conditional on 10000Hours being able to demonstrate that the football club we are buying the controlling interest in is a viable business and will be able to trade successfully.

The football club is currently unable to guarantee what the revenue situation will be in the immediate future for obvious and well publicised reasons.

Hence we (10000Hours) are unable to proceed with our offer. Similarly they (the selling consortium) are not really in a position to sell at the moment either.

Once the situation with regard sponsors, revenue etc is clear we can go back to our funder with the (most probably revised) business plan, gain approval for the funds we are asking for and then assuming all is well we then have the proof of funds required to allow us to confirm our offer.

That offer of course may also in itself also be revised depending on what has changed and by how much.

Similarly if the changes are particularly severe it could be that the selling consortium decide themselves to take the club off the market for now.

Or a third party might step in and buy the club with a better offer than 10000Hours can make.

The figure that would be taken out on Aug 31st will be whatever members pledged, but it will only be drawn down if we have or are in the final stages of completing a deal.

[Guest somner9]

10000Hours have already made an offer to the selling consortium..

That offer was made based on the financial commitments we had from our members.

We were not able to make the full £1.5m offer that had previously been agreed in principal as we did come up short in two of the three member categories.

The surplus we had in the other category did however allow us however to make a substantial 7 figure offer.

That offer includes some funding that is conditional on 10000Hours being able to demonstrate that the football club we are buying the controlling interest in is a viable business and will be able to trade successfully.

The football club is currently unable to guarantee what the revenue situation will be in the immediate future for obvious and well publicised reasons.

Hence we (10000Hours) are unable to proceed with our offer. Similarly they (the selling consortium) are not really in a position to sell at the moment either.

Once the situation with regard sponsors, revenue etc is clear we can go back to our funder with the (most probably revised) business plan, gain approval for the funds we are asking for and then assuming all is well we then have the proof of funds required to allow us to confirm our offer.

That offer of course may also in itself also be revised depending on what has changed and by how much.

Similarly if the changes are particularly severe it could be that the selling consortium decide themselves to take the club off the market for now.

Or a third party might step in and buy the club with a better offer than 10000Hours can make.

The figure that would be taken out on Aug 31st will be whatever members pledged, but it will only be drawn down if we have or are in the final stages of completing a deal.

In bold a compelling case to NOT set up another fund raising scheme, as the proceeds could well end up sweetening a deal for A.N. Other to buy the club?

[pozbaird]

no, it might just be me, ive had a total overload of takeovers and sevco recently that im totally scunnered.

what i mean is that, gilmour basically told the fans that the best outcome would be for sevco to be fast-tracked into the 1st division and the majority of the support agreed, and to plug the funding gap 83.5% of the membership were happy for the bid to go on hold but to start handing over the subs in any case?

have i got that all right?

so, i guessed you answered no to question 4 was all i meant.

In regard to my DD mandate, I wouldn't mind it coming off on July 31 to kick-start this Nero Blanco fund. I also accept the rationale behind not doing that at this time. In short - I'm easy. Take it off for the fund, put it on hold, either way, no problem.

In regard to SG - I put my individual opinion across to him in two e-mails, one personal meeting at the stadium - Newco Rangers should simply be treated as any newco club. Apply to join Div 3 like Annan, Peterhead, or Spartans if they fancy it. He knows my view - he didn't need to hear me state it again at the Tuesday meetings.

At the Tuesday meetings, I had my say and asked questions - most of which related to these twitchy corporate sponsors, and this desire (from certain quarters) to do anything, everything, including selling your first-born into slavery, to 'save Rangers'. I queried just what sort of 'Rangers' these sponsors and media types thought they would be saving. Certainly not the club full of international stars with big gates of yore. The answer was that many of these corporate sponsors don't really give a shit - they just sit in London offices and see their sponsorship of the SPL in purely commercial terms. They want Old Firm games. End of. It didn't seem to matter that any newco Rangers who may well have been parachuted into the SPL could be on the end of 5-0 or worse hidings from Celtic, as they'd be a far cry from the old Rangers. Still, doesn't matter. Must. Save. Rangers... I didn't see the point of pushing it any further.

I was there to listen to the three scenarios. I listened, I understood them, I went away fully understanding that IF Sevco XI were gerrymandered into Div 1, then it would be the 'least worst' of the three options from a financial POV.... but importantly it should come with proper league reconstruction, fairer distribution of wealth, the voting system changed, but then.... there's Donkeymaster & Regan. If those sort of reconstruction plans are written in blood, in triplicate, and lodged on the internet for me to see... I might believe we'd actually get them.

I took the points raised on board, but (as I said in my reasoning for wanting to help this Nero Blanco fund - but just not yet).... I'm at the stage where if the SPL told me tomorrow was Thursday, I'd check the calendar. A newco club should apply to join Div 3, same as any other newco. Drew also argued the point about 'what sort of entity do people think this newco is'. and argued it firmly and fairly. We could easily see them go tits-up before launch anyway. Or, parachute them into Div 1 and they simply don't win Div 1 - so, no 'Rangers' in the SPL to satisfy these corporate sponsors in London anyway. What then? Just promote them anyway? Must. Save. Rangers....

Edited July 11, 2012 by pozbaird

[St. Sid]

SMiSA taking the "fighting fund" cash is the only sensible option here. They are entirely separate from the club and have no "vested interest". Their only intention is to help the club. Already we have seen 10000 Hours shift the goalposts on a number of occasions with regard to how the CIC would be funded and members' fees used.

At this point it is difficult to make a donation as you have no idea what is actually going to happen with your cash or what it will end up being used for. The Div1 / Div 3 decision is outwith our control. We don't know what the shortfall will be. SMiSA will be able to take a genuinely independent view of how your money will be utilised. 10000 Hours is run by SMFC's Commercial Director, Club Secretary and General Manager. The club has appears to have used the same sales pitch on fans as the SPL and SFA have used on SFL clubs, which most supporters and SFL Directors appear very dubious of.

Is this just another tired attempt to breenj even more cash from rank and file fans whilst wealthy individuals put very little into the club. At what point is REA, Chris Stewart or Brian Caldwell going to put their hand in their pocket and help to save St Mirren? So far the CIC is being funded almost entirely by rank and file supporters for very little if any real return.

In a crisis supporters should be looking to their fellow supporters, and that is SMiSA.....not 10000 Hours. SMiSA are doing the right thing drafting plans for fundraising events should the worst come to the worst. However, if SMiSA intend handing any cash raised to 10000 Hours should the impending crisis not happen, then they won't be seeing any of my cash either - I am perfectly capable of presenting my own cash to the club directly.

[ck1]

SMiSA taking the "fighting fund" cash is the only sensible option here. They are entirely separate from the club and have no "vested interest". Their only intention is to help the club. Already we have seen 10000 Hours shift the goalposts on a number of occasions with regard to how the CIC would be funded and members' fees used.

At this point it is difficult to make a donation as you have no idea what is actually going to happen with your cash or what it will end up being used for. The Div1 / Div 3 decision is outwith our control. We don't know what the shortfall will be. SMiSA will be able to take a genuinely independent view of how your money will be utilised. 10000 Hours is run by SMFC's Commercial Director, Club Secretary and General Manager. The club has appears to have used the same sales pitch on fans as the SPL and SFA have used on SFL clubs, which most supporters and SFL Directors appear very dubious of.

Is this just another tired attempt to breenj even more cash from rank and file fans whilst wealthy individuals put very little into the club. At what point is REA, Chris Stewart or Brian Caldwell going to put their hand in their pocket and help to save St Mirren? So far the CIC is being funded almost entirely by rank and file supporters for very little if any real return.

In a crisis supporters should be looking to their fellow supporters, and that is SMiSA.....not 10000 Hours. SMiSA are doing the right thing drafting plans for fundraising events should the worst come to the worst. However, if SMiSA intend handing any cash raised to 10000 Hours should the impending crisis not happen, then they won't be seeing any of my cash either - I am perfectly capable of presenting my own cash to the club directly.

St Sid I agree with some of what you are saying there is a conflict of interest here between SMFC & 10000hrs .

I think a good idea would be for 10000hrs to collect the monthly subscriptions as Div says the system is in place and ready to go, once the cash comes in then hand it over to SMiSA who hold the cash in there bank account until it is needed.

By doing this it takes away all the cloak and dagger and suspicion away from both parties .I for one would be happy for my monthly payment to be taken out ASAP if this was the case.