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Nero Blanco Fund Launched


div

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St Sid I agree with some of what you are saying there is a conflict of interest here between SMFC & 10000hrs .

I think a good idea would be for 10000hrs to collect the monthly subscriptions as Div says the system is in place and ready to go, once the cash comes in then hand it over to SMiSA who hold the cash in there bank account until it is needed.

By doing this it takes away all the cloak and dagger and suspicion away from both parties .I for one would be happy for my monthly payment to be taken out ASAP if this was the case.

Or why not just take the 10000 Hours brand off of the online collection mechanism and make it a SMiSA operation? Are we not all St Mirren fans? Why is a takeover bid competing with a Supporters Trust? I got fed up apologising for the stoopidity of 10000 Hours. They are absolutely clueless. SMiSA have been organising fund riasing events for the club for years now, they've been successful at it and are trusted - 10000 Hours should have offered them their unconditional support whether it be in the form of web payment facilities or assistance with fundraising through the hospitality suite at the club.

Instead we have 10000 Hours launching their version of what SMiSA have announced making it a competition. Its a lot of f'k'n nonsense and just makes the support look bad. What happened to one town, one club......they can't even manage one club, one fundraising campaign.

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Instead we have 10000 Hours launching their version of what SMiSA have announced making it a competition. Its a lot of f'k'n nonsense and just makes the support look bad.

agreed with this, SMISA should be the vehicle for raising money independently. Its direct competition and will divide alot of the support.

its obvious there is no unity with 10k hours and smisa, shame.

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I'm not entirely sure there is any problem here.

10000Hours already have 1,000+ members, all with their existing bank details already setup in our system.

We have offered the ability for those members, plus anyone else who does not necessarily want to join the CIC to donate to a fund.

We will use that fund to help the club if we are asked.

If we are asked we will look to have that money considered in the deal we are working on to buy the shareholding

If we raise money through Nero Blanco but are unsuccessful in buying the shareholding we will give the money to SMiSA to do whatever they like with it

I am not sure in what way that can be construed as being divisive, we are even offering a scenario where we give potentially thousands of pounds to SMiSA !

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I'm not entirely sure there is any problem here.

10000Hours already have 1,000+ members, all with their existing bank details already setup in our system.

We have offered the ability for those members, plus anyone else who does not necessarily want to join the CIC to donate to a fund.

We will use that fund to help the club if we are asked.

If we are asked we will look to have that money considered in the deal we are working on to buy the shareholding

If we raise money through Nero Blanco but are unsuccessful in buying the shareholding we will give the money to SMiSA to do whatever they like with it

I am not sure in what way that can be construed as being divisive, we are even offering a scenario where we give potentially thousands of pounds to SMiSA !

Just don't see it Div. Why not just have a single organisation responsible for raising the funds - why the need for 10000 Hours to hold the cash? Why the dependency on whether the CIC goes ahead for the cash to be handed to the club?

Its a shambles again. I'll be keeping my cash in my own account for the moment until the situation becomes clear. Another utter shambles.

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Sid, you're just being provocative on this one. There is nothing wrong with what 10000hrs are doing per se. It is a simple amendment to their current infrastructure.

Would be good if they could secure some assurances at the same time though.

The use of "shambles" is the type of nonsense one would expect to read in the Daily Record.

Edited by civilsaint
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Sid, you're just being provocative on this one. There is nothing wrong with what 10000hrs are doing per se. It is a simple amendment to their current infrastructure.

Would be good if they could secure some assurances at the same time though.

The use of "shambles" is the type of nonsense one would expect to read in the Daily Record.

It is a shambles civilsaint. The entire sorry tale of 10000 Hours has been a shambles. This is just the latest example of it.

This should have been an easy decision. Support SMiSA's efforts at fundraising and put all cash raised through SMiSA with no dependencies on when 10000 Hours finally decide to admit that the deal is dead. An act like that might have changed a lot of people's opinions on the organisation. Instead they have opted to play games again. Yet another shooty in opportunity to convince fans that they are about supporting the clubs interests rather than their own. I have absolutely no doubts about SMiSA on that score.

Wouldn't it be great if the SMiSA fighting fund was launched with £100K worth of donations from the interim BoD (real ones not the kind where fans pay the donation back to you at a later date) - REA, Chris Stewart, Brian Caldwell, Tony F and GLS.......surely they can come up with that sum between them. Rank and file fans with donate to SMiSA / 10000 Hours unconditionally just as we've contributed to SMFC unconditionally in the past. Let's see if these people are fans or if they just fancy controlling a football club.

£100K to SMiSA......Fans have committed to over £1.3Million over 10 years to 10000 Hours based on a few online FAQs. £100K to SMiSA would be a very welcome return gesture by those who wioll waltz into control of our club on the back of fans money.

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Just don't see it Div. Why not just have a single organisation responsible for raising the funds - why the need for 10000 Hours to hold the cash? Why the dependency on whether the CIC goes ahead for the cash to be handed to the club?

Would have thought that was obvious ?

If we simply gift money to the club then we are effectively boosting the value of the same business we are then attempting to buy ?

In effect we'd be buying the club twice. Sheer lunacy,

SMiSA will have the same issue with any money they collect that is not specifically earmarked as being for a particular project. That is probably why they have kept hold off their £50k for the last few years as they have nothing to spend it on ie; No share capital that would see the money go directly into the football club.

This is a non issue. The fans want to help, our members told us they wanted to help, and we've provided them with a means of doing it using the same account they are already using to fund the takeover.

SMiSA themselves state on their website;

Any supporters & other supporters groups who wish to make or organise contributions, or run events in order to assist the club are also invited to give us details. We will help to publicise all such events and will encourage more people to help, attend, contribute & participate, as well as recording how much money was raised in all cases so that the total raised by all Saints fans to help the club is known, as well as how the amount raised has been given to the club.

They know what we have been working on as we told them about it on Monday. We support their initiatives and will do all we can to help them.

Why you seem intent on turning fan against fan is really beyond me but I find it quite sad.

On that note I'm off on my holidays. Good night !

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The paragraph you refer to doesn't read anywhere like a ringing endorsement of 10000 Hours plans. However, what goes on between 10000 Hours and SMiSA is between each groups members - I am not a member of either group. As an independent fan keen to support and help the club (if the much exaggerated crisis actually happens) I can't see why I can't just invest in the club directly as someone who has no desire to prove a mandate to control the club - just support it.

And how much is REA and the interim BoD putting into the fighting fund....£100K, £200K....or are they just happy to provide the mechanism and administration whilst taking all the credit and control...again?

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Just don't see it Div. Why not just have a single organisation responsible for raising the funds - why the need for 10000 Hours to hold the cash? Why the dependency on whether the CIC goes ahead for the cash to be handed to the club?

Its a shambles again. I'll be keeping my cash in my own account for the moment until the situation becomes clear. Another utter shambles.

Yeh, you're right Sid. What a shambles.

We have 2 organisations doing all they can to raise funds and help the club out if required. What a shambles.

I think it's a great thing since 10000 hours have a database of over 1000 Saints fans.

It's not a competition, who cares who gathers the funds, they'll end up in the same place if required.

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Just when you thought there was no appetite for fund raising schemes FOUR! come along at once...

Smisa

Smisa (new)

10000 hours

Point Nero Blanco

WTF???

the over riding factor for me and doubtless a few others is no one as far as I can tell knows what situation the club will face yet, in the upcoming season as regards finances and income. So since we don't know what is required and when, would it not be wise to ascertain that first, then IF required donate/pledge/take part in whatever works re: fundraising activities?

For example as someone here has mentioned if the SFL say Div 3 newco, there is a suggestion that the spl will go straight to Spl 1 and 2. in that scenario there may well be little drop off in tv/sponsor revenues as scumco would be in SPL 2.

Up to each to decide for themselves, but surely you need a target to aim for? We don't know where it's been painted yet.

exactly how i feel on this, i will help the club in any way i can in its' hour of need, but as somner said the target is not there yet. i've bought my season ticket and anyone else thinking of buying one should do so as soon as they can - that is money the club were counting on having by now. Anything else is unclear at the moment
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Yeh, you're right Sid. What a shambles.

We have 2 organisations doing all they can to raise funds and help the club out if required. What a shambles.

I think it's a great thing since 10000 hours have a database of over 1000 Saints fans.

It's not a competition, who cares who gathers the funds, they'll end up in the same place if required.

"if required".......SPL makes up financial armageddon to support its agenda. SMFC / 10000 Hours use the opportunity to push their own agenda.....fans are left wondering what the f"k is going on and offer to put their hands in their pockets. 10000 Hours takes the opportunity to start taking subscriptions ealry - just in case of course....nothing to do with them requiring more up front capital as the commercial / corporate bollox unsurprising fell on its arse.

This will drag on for say five months and if all the members agree 10000 Hours will have amassed an additional £50K in capital to invest - making up 2 x 1877 club memberships. They'll ask their members if they can use this money to fund the takeover rather than it going to SMFC as the cash wasn't needed as all the scaremongering turned out to be bollox.

By contrast it looks like SMiSA are ringfencing their donations and would hand it back to the donators should it not be required.

Might be wrong, but I wouldn't put anything past 10000 Hours as they get increasingly desperate in their attempts for fund the takeover.

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Div:

Have a good holiday. This has been a boring close season with little to talk about, so you have a great time, put your feet up, pour yourself a wee Campari and soda...

By the time you get back, maybe something will have happened in Scottish football that'll get us talking.

bye1.gif

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Yeh, you're right Sid. What a shambles.

We have 2 organisations doing all they can to raise funds and help the club out if required. What a shambles.

I think it's a great thing since 10000 hours have a database of over 1000 Saints fans.

It's not a competition, who cares who gathers the funds, they'll end up in the same place if required.

As I have already set up a DD for 10000 hrs my personal prefrence would have been to allow the club this money as a fighting fund. Some will think like me and some will not. Having SMiSA as another worthy organization to collect funds is a win win for me. No competition....Just maximizing the potential of support. I agree we need some final figures of the loss of revenue after Friday but a loss it will be and as such both funds WILL be needed.

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As I have already set up a DD for 10000 hrs my personal prefrence would have been to allow the club this money as a fighting fund. Some will think like me and some will not. Having SMiSA as another worthy organization to collect funds is a win win for me. No competition....Just maximizing the potential of support. I agree we need some final figures of the loss of revenue after Friday but a loss it will be and as such both funds WILL be needed.

And what if the consortium refuse to negotiate on the price for the takeover? Half arsed bollox yet again. The 10000 Hours scaremongering prior to the fans poll was in collusion with the selling consortium. The poll was designed by 10000 Hours and the selling consortium. Your money will be better placed with SMiSA who will have independence from the eventual bid for the club.

Just as league reconstruction should be separate from the newco question.......fundraising for SMFC should be separate from the takeover.

The build up of cash in a 10000 Hours firefighting acoount and 10000 Hours shortfall of funding is not a good mix and it would be better if a completely independent party managed the firefighting funds.

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And what if the consortium refuse to negotiate on the price for the takeover? Half arsed bollox yet again. The 10000 Hours scaremongering prior to the fans poll was in collusion with the selling consortium. The poll was designed by 10000 Hours and the selling consortium. Your money will be better placed with SMiSA who will have independence from the eventual bid for the club.

Just as league reconstruction should be separate from the newco question.......fundraising for SMFC should be separate from the takeover.

The build up of cash in a 10000 Hours firefighting acoount and 10000 Hours shortfall of funding is not a good mix and it would be better if a completely independent party managed the firefighting funds.

I disagree....My point being there would have to be an agreed change in the DD to allow fans like myself to understand my money was going to the club and not 10000hrs. If we have 1000 members already signed up then maybe 500 might say no but with 500 feeling like myself then £6000 per month means more in cash flow terms than any 1 off donation. The SMiSA fund raising is great and is of equal importance at a time where we will need funds from as many as possible as we aim to prove the Doomsday tabloids wrong.

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I disagree....My point being there would have to be an agreed change in the DD to allow fans like myself to understand my money was going to the club and not 10000hrs. If we have 1000 members already signed up then maybe 500 might say no but with 500 feeling like myself then £6000 per month means more in cash flow terms than any 1 off donation. The SMiSA fund raising is great and is of equal importance at a time where we will need funds from as many as possible as we aim to prove the Doomsday tabloids wrong.

Again you are leaning towards my point.....If the CIC takes another 6 months to table its offer then it will have £36K of capital ready to invest into the club and all it will need to do is convince the members to release the £36K to make the deal happen. Putting this money through 10000 Hours is too messy and a bit too handy for the interim board / selling consortium to snaffle.

10000 Hours said no money would be taken from fans until the deal was complete. They should stand by that promise.

£36K sitting with SMiSA will be completely independent. If it is not required then from what I can see you just get the cash back.

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Again you are leaning towards my point.....If the CIC takes another 6 months to table its offer then it will have £36K of capital ready to invest into the club and all it will need to do is convince the members to release the £36K to make the deal happen. Putting this money through 10000 Hours is too messy and a bit too handy for the interim board / selling consortium to snaffle.

10000 Hours said no money would be taken from fans until the deal was complete. They should stand by that promise.

£36K sitting with SMiSA will be completely independent. If it is not required then from what I can see you just get the cash back.

Yes Sid I understand ...but if 10000hrs were to make it clear that the DD could be changed for a fighting fund and nothing to do with the takeover then I think this would be more helpful to our club than one off donations.

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Sid - I would take the complete opposite view from you. I cannot understand why - no sorry I can understand it, I just think it's bonkers - SMiSA would want to collect money from the fans right now. SMiSA have been ridden by the BoD's before. Fans should be demanding a reduction in the share price and a commitment to sell to the fans in return for bailing the club out otherwise what is the point! All you are doing is lining the pockets of five individuals.

Anyway look I don't know why 10000hours chose not to activate the direct debits to assist the club - it may be my fault, then again it might not be. I was very vocal in my objection to 10000hours membership subs being used to prop up the club. My firm belief is that 10000hours eye should be firmly on the goal - which is delivering community ownership of St Mirren FC. I was extremely perturbed by the thought that a community member - like WWW98's - may find itself in a position where it was funding a senior professional football club in return for absolutely nothing, which is after all what senior football clubs have been doing to juvenile football clubs for years now. As it is my membership and that of the clubs remains cancelled. I'll be waiting on some clarity in Scottish Football before I re-evaluate my position and I'll await some clarity over the purchase of the club before I re-evaluate that of the juvenile football club.

I am satisfied with the 10000hours statement and with the clear intention that any donated money should be considered in the selling price. I'm less easy about the idea that in the event of a failed bid the money would be given to SMiSA though. I'd much rather see a refund with donors deciding whether they would prefer to support SMiSA.

Edited by Stuart Dickson
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Yes Sid I understand ...but if 10000hrs were to make it clear that the DD could be changed for a fighting fund and nothing to do with the takeover then I think this would be more helpful to our club than one off donations.

That would have been my preference for the excess rank and file direct debit forms they got too. However, without consulting the members they decided to use the excess to shore up the utter collapse of the Baldrick-style plan for corporate members. That was pretty desperate in my humble opinion.

Now the selling consortium / 10000 Hours have been quite to go into competition with the traditional fundraisers for such crisis events. Not just a shambles - a desperate shambles.

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Sid - I would take the complete opposite view from you. I cannot understand why - no sorry I can understand it, I just think it's bonkers - SMiSA would want to collect money from the fans right now. SMiSA have been ridden by the BoD's before. Fans should be demanding a reduction in the share price and a commitment to sell to the fans in return for bailing the club out otherwise what is the point! All you are doing is lining the pockets of five individuals.

Anyway look I don't know why 10000hours chose not to activate the direct debits to assist the club - it may be my fault, then again it might not be. I was very vocal in my objection to 10000hours membership subs being used to prop up the club. My firm belief is that 10000hours eye should be firmly on the goal - which is delivering community ownership of St Mirren FC. I was extremely perturbed by the thought that a community member - like WWW98's - may find itself in a position where it was funding a senior professional football club in return for absolutely nothing, which is after all what senior football clubs have been doing to juvenile football clubs for years now. As it is my membership and that of the clubs remains cancelled. I'll be waiting on some clarity in Scottish Football before I re-evaluate my position and I'll await some clarity over the purchase of the club before I re-evaluate that of the juvenile football club.

I am satisfied with the 10000hours statement and with the clear intention that any donated money should be considered in the selling price. I'm less easy about the idea that in the event of a failed bid the money would be given to SMiSA though. I'd much rather see a refund with donors deciding whether they would prefer to support SMiSA.

You are getting yourself tied up in knots on this matter. The BoD now consists of the selling consortium and 10000 Hours key players. They are one and the same. You are giving money to the both parties involved in the same transaction - you more than anyone should be able to see the conflict in interests. It looks looks like it could be nothing more than another traunch of fundraising from rank and file fans whilst none of these jokars have put their hand in their own pocket to bail out the club.

The often quoted example of REA's investment is the LOAN from a company he is a director of to manage a brief cashflow issue. Fans - mid worst economic crisis since WW2 are being pilfered again...meanwhile Maxi Group are boasting about an annual pre-tax profit rise to £3.4Million. It wasn't long ago that we were hearing rumours about GLS being able to make a £1M bid for the club.....are we going to see any of a fraction of these big numbers being properly donated (not as loans or strings attached donations) to the club?

At what point will they do what they are asking supporters to do and sink some money into the club if and when it needs it most without strings attached. If they want to be supporters then let's see them make the same sacrafices for the club they are asking us to make. They are bleeding the support dry at a time when the club may need cashflow most.

It's a shambles Stu and any cash we are collecting at the moment should be kept as far away from the takeover as possible.

They promised not to take money out of peoples accounts until the deal was done. They should stand by that and throw their support behind the SMiSA effort. That would be the smart move if they are serious about wanting to get as many supporters on board as possible.

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10000 Hours said no money would be taken from fans until the deal was complete. They should stand by that promise.

From todays release of Nero Blanco;

In short we do not want to draw down the original funds unless they are to be expressly used for the purpose for which they were pledged.

Which is exactly why we have not used the direct debits we already have in place for kicking off the emergency fund.

You are having an argument with yourself here John and trying to create an issue where one does not exist.

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You are getting yourself tied up in knots on this matter. The BoD now consists of the selling consortium and 10000 Hours key players. They are one and the same. You are giving money to the both parties involved in the same transaction - you more than anyone should be able to see the conflict in interests. It looks looks like it could be nothing more than another traunch of fundraising from rank and file fans whilst none of these jokars have put their hand in their own pocket to bail out the club.

The often quoted example of REA's investment is the LOAN from a company he is a director of to manage a brief cashflow issue. Fans - mid worst economic crisis since WW2 are being pilfered again...meanwhile Maxi Group are boasting about an annual pre-tax profit rise to £3.4Million. It wasn't long ago that we were hearing rumours about GLS being able to make a £1M bid for the club.....are we going to see any of a fraction of these big numbers being properly donated (not as loans or strings attached donations) to the club?

At what point will they do what they are asking supporters to do and sink some money into the club if and when it needs it most without strings attached. If they want to be supporters then let's see them make the same sacrafices for the club they are asking us to make. They are bleeding the support dry at a time when the club may need cashflow most.

It's a shambles Stu and any cash we are collecting at the moment should be kept as far away from the takeover as possible.

They promised not to take money out of peoples accounts until the deal was done. They should stand by that and throw their support behind the SMiSA effort. That would be the smart move if they are serious about wanting to get as many supporters on board as possible.

Sid I really can't see it. SMiSA have absolutely no intention of buying the club. They don't have the ability to buy the club and having had years and years of contributions from members they didn't succeed in getting a single member onto the board. Instead they put their hands in their members pockets to bail out the board of directors whether it be in helping to fund a youth development programme the club hadn't bothered with, or whether it was buying towels and t-shirts to save the players from having to buy their own. Now I appreciate their intentions were honourable, but tell me Sid, what did they actually deliver in terms of putting a fan in the boardroom, or even in terms of having a voice that the board of directors listened to?

10000hours is a membership owned vehicle that is trying to purchase a controlling stake in the club. Gilmour and Co are selling a controlling stake in the club. Membership of 10000hours assists in the purchase of that controlling interest meaning that Gilmour and Co get to f**k and that fans of the club never face a situation again where a consortium uses threats of "overseas buyers" as leverage to try and get more money off the fans for purely personal gain. I can't see how they are one and the same when if one group is doing it's job properly it's trying to get the best price for the consortium, and if the other is doing it's job properly it's trying to buy the shares at the cheapest price going. If you are alleging a carve up then you have a story, but if not I can't see where the conflict comes.

From where I'm sitting I see Div's point far more clearly than yours. A donation to the club or to SMiSA just puts value back into what should now be completely worthless shares. Money into 10000hours will at least be used as leverage.

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From todays release of Nero Blanco;

Which is exactly why we have not used the direct debits we already have in place for kicking off the emergency fund.

You are having an argument with yourself here John and trying to create an issue where one does not exist.

Agreed. I've no idea if he's at the wind up or if he's just completely lost touch having gone on holiday at one of the most important points in Scottish Football history but he certainly isn't making sense.

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