Nero Blanco Question For Rea/gordon Scott

[alanmurray24]

Hi Richard can you help with this, I have posted this on another post, as you know I am all for the CiC/CoOp buy out of Saint Mirren

however I am at a loss to the following request from 10000hours.

I feel the 10000hours should make it a condition of any money donated by them, should lead to the purchase of the club being agreed.

I have copied and pasted the post that I have made elsewhere and hopefully I will get a reply and us fans can hear your points of view on this before donating money.

Am I a little bit stupid or What ?????????

I have read the info from 10000 hours and if I have got this right, I would ask you all to think a little bit more before you jump in with your money.................

We" FANS/10000hours" Members are being asked to donate money to help the club survive via 10000hours/ SMISA schemes.

and at the end of the day we have no guarantee after we have bailed them out with season tickets and extra cash that someone else could then come and buy the club and we have all lost our money.

I have read the following paragraph dozens of times and \i am very unsure of it. We (All fans of SMFC) are going to give our money to help run the club through hard times for some rich git to take over when the money rolls in again.

We, and the club, greatly appreciate that offer, however we also appreciate that there are many individuals who support the club who do not wish to take up a monthly subscription and we are also mindful of the fact that in a competitive bidding situation there is no guarantee that 10000Hours will emerge as the successful bidder for the majority shareholding. In short we do not want to draw down the original funds unless they are to be expressly used for the purpose for which they were pledged.

So my problem is with this...lets say after a year we have given SMFC £120K, Rankers are back in SPL with 14/16 other teams, some rich git wants to buy club offers SG £2.2 million........ deal done we have all lost out.........

Not for me SORRY unless 10000hours/SMISA make it a condition to SMFC that if we donate money they will accept our offer for the club "

2nd post

NO 10000hours then offer less than 1.5 million for club

Sorry.....when my business was short of cash flow it was me that put money in not my customers..........thats what directors are for, and if they dont have the money at least then say that if 10000hours/fans donate money, that they will then be owners of the 52% share holding that they have at present, when funds are in place.

Scenario is SMFC as per SG statement is going to be in Financial trouble ? SMFC directors Cant/Wont put money into club?

Club is then not worth 1.5 million

Fans/10000hours donate £120K to help run club and then Selling Consortium then sell for 2.2 million to Mr Moneybags Esq do SG and Co then give back money to Fans/10000hours???????

A qoute for S. Dickson (slightly changed)

Putting money in without stipulating the conditions for that donation is simply retaining value in worthless shares that are being flogged by the consortium and by Gordon Scott. Why make individuals rich when it's the football club we all care about?

We are not in as much debt as others in SPL clubs, and with them getting more of a share of the money thus then losing more money I dont hear other clubs asking for this sort of assistance

Richard / Gordon. Thanks in advance for your time in answering my querey

Alan

[Kemp]

I think you are missing the point of "Nero Blanco"

[St. Sid]

The asking price was no longer £1.5Million....pretty sure the offer being made and not rejected would have been nearer the £1.2 -1.3Million mark. So the selling consortium has already discounted the price by around £750K to accomodate the buy out.

[Stuart Dickson]

The asking price was no longer £1.5Million....pretty sure the offer being made and not rejected would have been nearer the £1.2 -1.3Million mark. So the selling consortium has already discounted the price by a rough nd £750K to accomodate the buy out.

.... And how much do you think the shares would cost when the club is in administration?

The more help 10000hours members give the club the less money the five members of the consortium - and Gordon Scott - should get for their shares

[St. Sid]

.... And how much do you think the shares would cost when the club is in administration?

The more help 10000hours members give the club the less money the five members of the consortium - and Gordon Scott - should get for their shares

And do you think 10000 Hours will be the only bidders if the administration scaremongering actually came to pass. The SPL finances are about as detailed as 10000 Hours finances. Sober up Stu - you are arguing a case based on points from sales pitches by the SPL, SG and the selling consortium, and 10000 Hours.

I suspect the entire push from 10000 Hours is a covert attempt to prove that they will be able to manage a cashflow crisis via fans dipping into their pockets to try and circumvent the concern that they have no funds to "fighting fund" to manage cash flow issues.

10000 Hours was a stretch of faith at the first pass when it was adequately funded - according to 10000 Hours. Now it isn't and is entirely dependent on fan investment and a single £500K loan which is far from in the bag. All 10000 Hours has going for it is momentum with the fans. The sooner they own up to it being a dead duck the better for everyone...especially with all the SPL / SFA stuff going on.

[Stuart Dickson]

And do you think 10000 Hours will be the only bidders if the administration scaremongering actually came to pass. The SPL finances are about as detailed as 10000 Hours finances. Sober up Stu - you are arguing a case based on points from sales pitches by the SPL, SG and the selling consortium, and 10000 Hours.

I suspect the entire push from 10000 Hours is a covert attempt to prove that they will be able to manage a cashflow crisis via fans dipping into their pockets to try and circumvent the concern that they have no funds to "fighting fund" to manage cash flow issues.

10000 Hours was a stretch of faith at the first pass when it was adequately funded - according to 10000 Hours. Now it isn't and is entirely dependent on fan investment and a single £500K loan which is far from in the bag. All 10000 Hours has going for it is momentum with the fans. The sooner they own up to it being a dead duck the better for everyone...especially with all the SPL / SFA stuff going on.

Nonsense Sid, I am not one of those people rushing for my wallet to help bail a club out of a situation that hasn't developed yet. Rangers - and lets call them that cause that is what the newco are going to be known as - are not yet in Division 3, and not even SFL Chairmen believe Rangers will be there after tomorrows meeting either. What they fully expect to happen is that they will vote to send Rangers to Division 3 and the SFA will over rule them, whether it's by then closing the SPL and SFL and declaring them unfit to govern, or by allowing the SPL to push ahead with a new breakaway league - perhaps the SPL2 perhaps something similar. So the likelihood of the Armageddon scenario painted by anyone else is very unlikely to come to fruition.

Unfortunately the people who are buying the sales pitches from the SPL and SG and the selling consortium are those who are being exploited by SMiSA in some cases to the tune of hundreds of pounds. And what for? What will they get in return? Fan ownership? No. A voice on the board? No. No, instead they well get the same kind of warm fuzzy feeling that one gets when they've pissed their pants, thinking they've helped the football club - whilst instead they've propped up the value of shares with one end result - they've sent five rich people home even richer.

At least those putting money in through 100000hours will do so knowing that their money will be used as leverage to bring the sale price of the club down, and they will do so in the knowledge that if 100000hours succeed in its aims the club will be member owned with no-one ever going to be able to threaten them with give us all your money or we'll sell the club into "foreign ownership" pish ever again.

[reborn saint]

Nonsense Sid, I am not one of those people rushing for my wallet to help bail a club out of a situation that hasn't developed yet. Rangers - and lets call them that cause that is what the newco are going to be known as - are not yet in Division 3, and not even SFL Chairmen believe Rangers will be there after tomorrows meeting either. What they fully expect to happen is that they will vote to send Rangers to Division 3 and the SFA will over rule them, whether it's by then closing the SPL and SFL and declaring them unfit to govern, or by allowing the SPL to push ahead with a new breakaway league - perhaps the SPL2 perhaps something similar. So the likelihood of the Armageddon scenario painted by anyone else is very unlikely to come to fruition.

Unfortunately the people who are buying the sales pitches from the SPL and SG and the selling consortium are those who are being exploited by SMiSA in some cases to the tune of hundreds of pounds. And what for? What will they get in return? Fan ownership? No. A voice on the board? No. No, instead they well get the same kind of warm fuzzy feeling that one gets when they've pissed their pants, thinking they've helped the football club - whilst instead they've propped up the value of shares with one end result - they've sent five rich people home even richer.

At least those putting money in through 100000hours will do so knowing that their money will be used as leverage to bring the sale price of the club down, and they will do so in the knowledge that if 100000hours succeed in its aims the club will be member owned with no-one ever going to be able to threaten them with give us all your money or we'll sell the club into "foreign ownership" pish ever again.

Never had that Stu.....what's it like?

[Stuart Dickson]

Never had that Stu.....what's it like?

I'm guessing you use TENA Lady?

[Stuart Dickson]

Not are You only Law Stud - but your a Stud with your Keyboard ? well said that man !!!

My wife tells me I'm no bad looking too....

Is it bad I hid her prescription for the opticians?

[St. Sid]

Nonsense Sid, I am not one of those people rushing for my wallet to help bail a club out of a situation that hasn't developed yet. Rangers - and lets call them that cause that is what the newco are going to be known as - are not yet in Division 3, and not even SFL Chairmen believe Rangers will be there after tomorrows meeting either. What they fully expect to happen is that they will vote to send Rangers to Division 3 and the SFA will over rule them, whether it's by then closing the SPL and SFL and declaring them unfit to govern, or by allowing the SPL to push ahead with a new breakaway league - perhaps the SPL2 perhaps something similar. So the likelihood of the Armageddon scenario painted by anyone else is very unlikely to come to fruition.

Unfortunately the people who are buying the sales pitches from the SPL and SG and the selling consortium are those who are being exploited by SMiSA in some cases to the tune of hundreds of pounds. And what for? What will they get in return? Fan ownership? No. A voice on the board? No. No, instead they well get the same kind of warm fuzzy feeling that one gets when they've pissed their pants, thinking they've helped the football club - whilst instead they've propped up the value of shares with one end result - they've sent five rich people home even richer.

At least those putting money in through 100000hours will do so knowing that their money will be used as leverage to bring the sale price of the club down, and they will do so in the knowledge that if 100000hours succeed in its aims the club will be member owned with no-one ever going to be able to threaten them with give us all your money or we'll sell the club into "foreign ownership" pish ever again.

Stu, we are essentially arguing the same point but from different perspectives - however the outcome is similar. There is no sense in anyone submitting any funds to any organisation at this point.

10000 Hours stated that they would not take any money from anyones accounts until the deal was done. They should stick with that. The org - which doesn't exist yet - has been set up for a specific purpose. It should stick to that. It corrupted itself with the frankly bizarre poll and statement of intent to take money from fans early and give it to the club to help its cashflow. We both appear to agree that is not something that should be done.

You clearly have personal issues with SMiSA just as you have admitted your personal issues with SG. My experience of them is very different, and their "honourable" values are aligned with mine.

We have spent eons slating the SPL / SFA for bullying tactics, blackmail, threats, corruption, cheating.......now we are doing the same to the BoD that have put us in the position to actually buy out the club. I understand the reasoning for trying to negotiate the support of the club to reducing the sale of the club.

However, here is my take on that. 10000 Hours appears on the scene with a plan to get social grants and hand them over to the selling consortium. The selling consortium invites them into the SMFC Boardroom....(remember KMG).....the idea being that they get to understand how the club works and will be able to take over the club smoothly. Big problem - turns out that the grant funding and the rest of the social funding was bollox. So SG and the selling consortium are left with fans baying for fan ownerhsip, 10000 Hours sitting on the BoD and pressure mounting on them from the unravelling of scumgers and ultimately the SPL.

10000 Hours look dead on their arse....the corporate and commercial funding has been a failure. The deal should have died at the deadline; however they landed further fans support putting the selling consortium in a shit position. Fans want it to happen - 10000 Hours don't have the cash to properly support the takeover and running of the club. SMFC will find it difficult to tell 10000 Hours to f"k off out of it.

scumgers situation kicks off big time - 10000 Hours start releasing "armaggedon" press releases before SMFC states anything about it publically. Now the game is reduce the selling price if you want financial support from the fans. Meanwhile we have SMFC appearing to support the newco at every turn.

There is sufficient doubt about this volatile situation for fans / "members" to back off from 10000 Hours who are clearly in a negotiation situation with the selling consortium, and I'm none too happy about them continuing to sit on our BoD 3 years into a bid that has failed more than once to gain the required funding.

Im my humble opinion the last thing we should be doing is allowing 10000 Hours more power to use the financial health of SMFC as a blackmailing tool to try and progress an underfunded bid.

At this point in time 10000 Hours should step down from the BoD until the financial situation is clear - the bid was supposed to be on hold and yet 10000 Hours are attempting to blackmail the club in public in the press - where's the "honour" in that.

Fans should stick their "fighting fund" donations into their own accounts until the situation is clear - if they want to make it visible then place the cash with SMiSA.

10000 Hours should not be a player in this. And SMFC's financial health should not be a bargaining chip. That is as disgusting as what the SPL / SFA have attempted to do to the SFL clubs. I thought our support were better than that.

[Stuart Dickson]

Stu, we are essentially arguing the same point but from different perspectives - however the outcome is similar. There is no sense in anyone submitting any funds to any organisation at this point.

10000 Hours stated that they would not take any money from anyones accounts until the deal was done. They should stick with that. The org - which doesn't exist yet - has been set up for a specific purpose. It should stick to that. It corrupted itself with the frankly bizarre poll and statement of intent to take money from fans early and give it to the club to help its cashflow. We both appear to agree that is not something that should be done.

You clearly have personal issues with SMiSA just as you have admitted your personal issues with SG. My experience of them is very different, and their "honourable" values are aligned with mine.

We have spent eons slating the SPL / SFA for bullying tactics, blackmail, threats, corruption, cheating.......now we are doing the same to the BoD that have put us in the position to actually buy out the club. I understand the reasoning for trying to negotiate the support of the club to reducing the sale of the club.

However, here is my take on that. 10000 Hours appears on the scene with a plan to get social grants and hand them over to the selling consortium. The selling consortium invites them into the SMFC Boardroom....(remember KMG).....the idea being that they get to understand how the club works and will be able to take over the club smoothly. Big problem - turns out that the grant funding and the rest of the social funding was bollox. So SG and the selling consortium are left with fans baying for fan ownerhsip, 10000 Hours sitting on the BoD and pressure mounting on them from the unravelling of scumgers and ultimately the SPL.

10000 Hours look dead on their arse....the corporate and commercial funding has been a failure. The deal should have died at the deadline; however they landed further fans support putting the selling consortium in a shit position. Fans want it to happen - 10000 Hours don't have the cash to properly support the takeover and running of the club. SMFC will find it difficult to tell 10000 Hours to f"k off out of it.

scumgers situation kicks off big time - 10000 Hours start releasing "armaggedon" press releases before SMFC states anything about it publically. Now the game is reduce the selling price if you want financial support from the fans. Meanwhile we have SMFC appearing to support the newco at every turn.

There is sufficient doubt about this volatile situation for fans / "members" to back off from 10000 Hours who are clearly in a negotiation situation with the selling consortium, and I'm none too happy about them continuing to sit on our BoD 3 years into a bid that has failed more than once to gain the required funding.

Im my humble opinion the last thing we should be doing is allowing 10000 Hours more power to use the financial health of SMFC as a blackmailing tool to try and progress an underfunded bid.

At this point in time 10000 Hours should step down from the BoD until the financial situation is clear - the bid was supposed to be on hold and yet 10000 Hours are attempting to blackmail the club in public in the press - where's the "honour" in that.

Fans should stick their "fighting fund" donations into their own accounts until the situation is clear - if they want to make it visible then place the cash with SMiSA.

10000 Hours should not be a player in this. And SMFC's financial health should not be a bargaining chip. That is as disgusting as what the SPL / SFA have attempted to do to the SFL clubs. I thought our support were better than that.

I don't remember 10000hours releasing Armageddon statements before SMFC. The way I remember it was Gilmour made the press releases about the financial instability of the club before the talks started on the 10000hours bid last month, 10000hours then said at the meeting that the deal would be put on hold until there was more financial certainty which was all pretty reasonable IMO. You'll remember that I subsequently cancelled my membership of 10000hours after they asked the poll question about whether fans would be happy to postpone the sale of the club for up to 12 months with the direct debits being used to prop up the club and 85% voted in favour of doing just that.

As for this Blanco Nero stuff - well like you I don't think fans should be putting their money anywhere right now but SMiSA and 10000hours are only responding to the requests that fans were making in the immediate aftermath of last weeks meetings. 10000hours were asked to start drawing down Direct Debits and to their credit REA hasn't done that and appears to have listened to my complaint and instead Div has set up this method of crowd funding.

As for SMiSA, I don't have any personal issues. I'm just calling it as I see it. I was a member of SMiSA, I have been and still am a member of a number of other ISA's. As a matter of course I have been supportive of the Independent Supporters Association movement since it started. It's a matter of public record that I cancelled my membership of SMiSA after they opted to fund the purchase of t-shirts and towels for the club - something I saw as a lack of focus on the main goal. John White has contacted me to explain the circumstances around this and I give him credit for doing that but the detail changes nothing, it was still a waste of members money. In this instance it's SMiSA who look to me like the ones who are being opportunistic. Instead of allowing the additional money to be channelled through 10000hours - which has 1000+ members - and used as leverage towards the goal of member ownership, they dived in looking to take the money off some very dim St Mirren supporters once again attempting to fudge the goal of a large number amongst the support.

In short if the two organisations were St Mirren strikers SMiSA would be Brian McGinty - keen as f**k but with absolutely no idea where the goal is or what they are supposed to be doing - whilst 10000hours are more of a Michael Higdon - capable but with a tendency of shooting itself in the foot with the supporters. More chance of hitting the net than much of the other rubbish around the club.

[E=Mc2]

My wife tells me I'm no bad looking too....

Is it bad I hid her prescription for the opticians?

And she thinks I'm no bad looking either..........................

And when she's wi' me she dinnae need her glasses cause it's all close up stuff...............

Know whit I mean?

Know whit I mean?

[Stuart Dickson]

And she thinks I'm no bad looking either..........................

And when she's wi' me she dinnae need her glasses cause it's all close up stuff...............

Know whit I mean?

Know whit I mean?

Aye she said she her chiropodist was a St Mirren supporter. How are her bunions this morning?

[St. Sid]

I don't remember 10000hours releasing Armageddon statements before SMFC. The way I remember it was Gilmour made the press releases about the financial instability of the club before the talks started on the 10000hours bid last month, 10000hours then said at the meeting that the deal would be put on hold until there was more financial certainty which was all pretty reasonable IMO.

Nope, it was 10000 Hours that started the revelations about financial impacts of scumgers not being in the SPL with articles in the PDE and in their own FAQs on the 10000 Hours web site, which were all repeated on B&WArmy.com. At that point fans were frustrated by SG and SMFC's no comment style statements on the fishal site. 10000 Hours were the first to launch the save scumgers campaign.

[Guest somner9]

http://youtu.be/vAc4q1YqdOU