Never Mind The Boll#cks, Let's Have A Fan Led Approach?

[Guest somner9]

If as predicted the SFL vote Sevco to div 3 today, and the scaremongering re; tv/sponsorship is half as bad as predicted?

Instead of setting up multiple "Fighting Funds" why don't we wait to see how the club/BoD fair and if it's administration use our CiC pledeged DD's and the support of Smisa to buy the club at a realistic value, given we are told to expect a drop from £15m a year in Tv money to £3m.

Would it make any sense to throw fighting fund money at a business model that will have patently failed? (not the BoD's fault) Would it make more sense in business and support terms to take that opportunity to shape the club, after a purchase at a much more realistic price?

We wouldn't need 500k from Big Issue, we could fund the deal after say saving up six months subs, plus if smisa see the merit 50k from them. then pay off any residuals through the monthly subs.

I praise the current BoD for the magnificent job they have done over their reign, However what i'm proposing is just business, and if their share value tumbles along with expected tv/sponsorship revenue, why should we as fans throw extra money in each week to prop up their value?

No A.N. Other bidder is going to pay circa £1.5m for SMFC if any of the doom mongering is to be believed, so why should we go with 10000 hours Matt Bianco Fund??? I can see as members of the current BoD and significant shareholders whats in it for them, but I can also see any extra money chipped in from the support having no effect whatsoever except to prolong the current BoD's tenure a bit longer, then they'll still want market value when they go into admin anyway.

Should we wait til alls done and dusted next week re; sevco, promotions, re-organisation plans etc. then seek clarity from sky/espn/sponsors etc as what their intentions are. Then get the 1000 and more saints fans DD's start rolling in to the fans buy out bank account, ready to respond when the inevitable happens?

[bluto]

It won't be "all done and dusted" next week.

I'd bet that by next week we'll be closer to a general realisation and acceptance that ICBINR (I can't believe it's not Rongers), is NOT going to be playing in any part of Scottish Football.

You're quite correct that a longer view should be taken and yet some attempt should be made to make provision...

Just shows you what those basturts are doing to ALL of us.

Though current governance/governors of Sfa and SPL are almost as blameworthy...

Edited July 13, 2012 by bluto

[Guest somner9]

It won't be "all done and dusted" next week.

I'd bet that by next week we'll be closer to a general realisation and acceptance that ICBINR (I can't believe it's not Rongers), is NOT going to be playing in any part of Scottish Football.

You're quite correct that a longer view should be taken and yet some attempt should be made to make provision...

Just shows you what those basturts are doing to ALL of us.

Though current governance/governors of Sfa and SPL are almost as blameworthy...

Quite right the Sfa/Spl heeds should be f**ked and burned for the shambles they have created.

My main point is as you say taking a longer pragmatic look at what we as fans, customers and prospective owners can do for the LONG term good of the club.

I don't see as is described in Rea's Pde interview "Keeping Afloat" the club should the predicted shortfall of £1.1m happen, a thought through, realistic and effective use of the power of our direct debits!

[Stuart Dickson]

If as predicted the SFL vote Sevco to div 3 today, and the scaremongering re; tv/sponsorship is half as bad as predicted?

Instead of setting up multiple "Fighting Funds" why don't we wait to see how the club/BoD fair and if it's administration use our CiC pledeged DD's and the support of Smisa to buy the club at a realistic value, given we are told to expect a drop from £15m a year in Tv money to £3m.

Would it make any sense to throw fighting fund money at a business model that will have patently failed? (not the BoD's fault) Would it make more sense in business and support terms to take that opportunity to shape the club, after a purchase at a much more realistic price?

We wouldn't need 500k from Big Issue, we could fund the deal after say saving up six months subs, plus if smisa see the merit 50k from them. then pay off any residuals through the monthly subs.

I praise the current BoD for the magnificent job they have done over their reign, However what i'm proposing is just business, and if their share value tumbles along with expected tv/sponsorship revenue, why should we as fans throw extra money in each week to prop up their value?

No A.N. Other bidder is going to pay circa £1.5m for SMFC if any of the doom mongering is to be believed, so why should we go with 10000 hours Matt Bianco Fund??? I can see as members of the current BoD and significant shareholders whats in it for them, but I can also see any extra money chipped in from the support having no effect whatsoever except to prolong the current BoD's tenure a bit longer, then they'll still want market value when they go into admin anyway.

Should we wait til alls done and dusted next week re; sevco, promotions, re-organisation plans etc. then seek clarity from sky/espn/sponsors etc as what their intentions are. Then get the 1000 and more saints fans DD's start rolling in to the fans buy out bank account, ready to respond when the inevitable happens?

Ok, good stuff Somner. I look forward to hearing and seeing your campaign and your proposals. Hopefully you will look to retain community and commercial involvement in your takeover bid. I certainly agree with you that the best thing to do right now is to wait till SG's predicted Armageddon happens and then buy up the controlling interest as cheaply as possible, and preferably without finance.

When can we expect to see your website and what date should I pencil in for your first public meeting

[Guest somner9]

We should be looking to dramatically expand community involvement at every level, from youth football to day centres for the not so young, to toddler groups, parenting classes, home economics for young parents, courses and support on living on a budget, cookery courses, how to cook healthy and cheaply, back to work courses, setting up or own companies using the expertise of local people, businesses and the widening support of our club.

I can imagine a st mirren park on a weekday where most of this can be going on at the same time! toddlers mixing with pensioners, young unemployed/disadvantaged people mixing with retired/unemployed tradespeople. in short being all inclusive to every group/person in our community, not just the easy targets

Edited July 13, 2012 by somner9

[Stuart Dickson]

We should be looking to dramatically expand community involvement at every level, from youth football to day centres for the not so young, to toddler groups, parenting classes, home economics for young parents, courses and support on living on a budget, cookery courses, how to cook healthy and cheaply, back to work courses, setting up or own companies using the expertise of local people, businesses and the widening support of our club.

I can imagine a st mirren park on a weekday where most of this can be going on at the same time! toddlers mixing with pensioners, young unemployed/disadvantaged people mixing with retired/unemployed tradespeople. in short being all inclusive to every group/person in our community, not just the easy targets

Yep, good. So what are you calling your group?

[Kendo]

We should be looking to dramatically expand community involvement at every level, from youth football to day centres for the not so young, to toddler groups, parenting classes, home economics for young parents, courses and support on living on a budget, cookery courses, how to cook healthy and cheaply, back to work courses, setting up or own companies using the expertise of local people, businesses and the widening support of our club.

I can imagine a st mirren park on a weekday where most of this can be going on at the same time! toddlers mixing with pensioners, young unemployed/disadvantaged people mixing with retired/unemployed tradespeople. in short being all inclusive to every group/person in our community, not just the easy targets

What's the weather like in La La Land?

[Guest somner9]

St Mirren Football Club

(One Town, One Team, One Community)

[Guest somner9]

What's the weather like in La La Land?

So would you rather we exclude members of your community?

[Kendo]

When can we expect to see your website and what date should I pencil in for your first public meeting

The 12th of never.

[Stuart Dickson]

St Mirren Football Club

(One Town, One Team, One Community)

I'm no lawyer, but I think there might be a breach of trademark there - unless of course you get permission to use the club name to raise funds for your takeover.

Good luck with this though Somner. I mean it truly can't harm anyone having a number of competing fan groups looking to buy shares. One would presume that would only serve to drive the price down wouldn't it.....

[Kendo]

So would you rather we exclude members of your community?

I would rather live in a world where no one went hungry, everyone had plenty of money and wars were history.

However this is the real world.

[Guest somner9]

I would rather live in a world where no one went hungry, everyone had plenty of money and wars were history.

However this is the real world.

A real world in which say a few years ago if someone had told you SMFC was on the cusp of being majority owned by its fans, would you have believed that?

Start at home, work with your people, every little change builds to bigger changes. Is there a valid reason not to do it?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

St Mirren Football Club

( County One Team, One Community)

Fixed

[Stuart Dickson]

A real world in which say a few years ago if someone had told you SMFC was on the cusp of being majority owned by its fans, would you have believed that?

Start at home, work with your people, every little change builds to bigger changes. Is there a valid reason not to do it?

Nope......so website? Proposal? Press Release? Campaign launch? When can we expect to see something?

[oaksoft]

I would rather live in a world where no one went hungry, everyone had plenty of money and wars were history.

However this is the real world.

That is an absolute cop-out for doing f**k all.

[oaksoft]

Nope......so website? Proposal? Press Release? Campaign launch? When can we expect to see something?

I'm with you Stuart. It's the lack of detailed proposals which gets me.

[St. Sid]

Nope......so website? Proposal? Press Release? Campaign launch? When can we expect to see something?

Why are you obsessed with a "web site" Stu? You are behaving as if there has been a masive investment by 10000 Hours in infrastructure to support its bid. The reality is that it has been a campaign in an already existing fans forum led by "forum clowns" like me. The 10000 Hours site was barely touched and all the debate has taken place in hear - even the fishal site forum has become a ghost board as a result. There's a thread about it on there now.

We've still to see a detailed proposal from 10000 Hours. Would anyone like to have a crack at explaining the detail that hasn't been presented despite numerous attempts to get at real information - particularly around funding and risk.

Press release - 10000 Hours press releases have been a PR disaster by their own admission.

Campaign launch.....that wasn't the approach that 10000 Hours took. Instead they held secret meetings with the likes of SMiSA and selected fans to help them formulate their apporach to the launch.

Have you been sleepwalking through the 10000 Hours process - lack of it?

[Guest somner9]

We've got both Waldorf and Stadtler on the thread today!

The grumpy old men who say "neigh".....

Some opinions shared, some of the usual "against anything" brigade, but still not had one good reason not to do it!

and i suspect that's what gets waldorf & Stadtler's goat? Knowing it's what we should be looking at, but feeling a sense of "neigh" to anything st mirren

Edited July 13, 2012 by somner9

[ktf]

The concept's a good one Somner and I like your vision of what St Mirren could be... Of course there are PVG issues with what you laid out, but I'm sure you were just presenting a concept as opposed to an actual plan.

I'd add to it the opening up of the matchday experience: the stadium opens at 11am with 5-a-side tourneys for all age brackets. A BBQ outside selling all the usual guff. The pandas mixing with fans. local bands on a mobile stage, stalls from local community groups. Beat the goalie etc. bouncy castles. A bar. Merchandise stall open. Maybe injured/suspended players out mixing with fans. Face painting for kids. Etc etc... All culminating at 3pm in kick-off - free entry for under 12s who were at the open day. A much happier crowd. Pulling in people from all over the district, non-saints fans, former OF fans, fringe supporters all coming to bring the kids, meet mates etc.

All scottish football clubs are so narrow-minded in the way they present the matchday experience. St Mirren could be leading the way in community involvement and attracting more fans.

[Stuart Dickson]

We've got both Waldorf and Stadtler on the thread today!

The grumpy old men who say "neigh".....

Some opinions shared, some of the usual "against anything" brigade, but still not had one good reason not to do it!

and i suspect that's what gets waldorf & Stadtler's goat? Knowing it's what we should be looking at, but feeling a sense of "neigh" to anything st mirren

I haven't said neigh at all. I've just asked pertinent questions as to when your campaign launch is. I presume you plan on getting some sort of publicity.

I'm looking forward to reading it.

[Guest somner9]

The concept's a good one Somner and I like your vision of what St Mirren could be... Of course there are PVG issues with what you laid out, but I'm sure you were just presenting a concept as opposed to an actual plan.

I'd add to it the opening up of the matchday experience: the stadium opens at 11am with 5-a-side tourneys for all age brackets. A BBQ outside selling all the usual guff. The pandas mixing with fans. local bands on a mobile stage, stalls from local community groups. Beat the goalie etc. bouncy castles. A bar. Merchandise stall open. Maybe injured/suspended players out mixing with fans. Face painting for kids. Etc etc... All culminating at 3pm in kick-off - free entry for under 12s who were at the open day. A much happier crowd. Pulling in people from all over the district, non-saints fans, former OF fans, fringe supporters all coming to bring the kids, meet mates etc.

All scottish football clubs are so narrow-minded in the way they present the matchday experience. St Mirren could be leading the way in community involvement and attracting more fans.

Re: PVG i would expect all the relevant checks and safeguards to be in place. but what we are talking about is not any different to fireworks/xmas light switch on at the cross. all different groups mingling for a great day/night out.

think more along the lines of pensioner groups being able to see the weans through the glass from the comfort of their tea dance lounge, young disadvantaged people working with the appropriate adults, and volunteers who want to help them get a toe-hold in our community and life. some of these things are already done at st mirren park, and as you say it needs to be ramped up.

[Stuart Dickson]

Why are you obsessed with a "web site" Stu? You are behaving as if there has been a masive investment by 10000 Hours in infrastructure to support its bid. The reality is that it has been a campaign in an already existing fans forum led by "forum clowns" like me. The 10000 Hours site was barely touched and all the debate has taken place in hear - even the fishal site forum has become a ghost board as a result. There's a thread about it on there now.

We've still to see a detailed proposal from 10000 Hours. Would anyone like to have a crack at explaining the detail that hasn't been presented despite numerous attempts to get at real information - particularly around funding and risk.

Press release - 10000 Hours press releases have been a PR disaster by their own admission.

Campaign launch.....that wasn't the approach that 10000 Hours took. Instead they held secret meetings with the likes of SMiSA and selected fans to help them formulate their apporach to the launch.

Have you been sleepwalking through the 10000 Hours process - lack of it?

Not at all Sid.

Everything Somner9 has said on this thread this morning is laudable, and I've got absolutely no problem with it at all. I just suspect that he's never going to go any further than posting about it anonymously on a football forum. After all this is the man who declined a meeting with Stewart Gilmour just a few short weeks ago after his bowels collapsed. Can we really see him turning up for takeover talks - and could we really entrust him to attend those negotiations with the ability to do a deal that would be beneficial for the supporters?

As for his campaign, well if it really is just piggybacking on the work that 10000hours have done already, why not just use the existing vehicle and stand for election onto the board. If his views are popular and the support believes he has the trust and integrity to deliver then he'd be an absolute shoe in, surely.

Finally I'd also be interested to hear how Somner9 believes that splitting the support even further with a third group - we've already got SMiSA and 10000hours - will help realise any of his goals at all especially since there would be at least two competing bids for the 52% shareholding.

[Guest somner9]

Sigh! if only they taught the importance of reading and digesting across all scotland.

Somner 9 quotes from OP "Instead of setting up multiple "Fighting Funds" why don't we wait to see how the club/BoD fair and if it's administration use our CiC pledeged DD's and the support of Smisa to buy the club at a realistic value, given we are told to expect a drop from £15m a year in Tv money to £3m.

One County, One team, one community, ONE BID!

You might be running out of "Neighs" soon at this rate

Edited July 13, 2012 by somner9

[St. Sid]

Not at all Sid.

Everything Somner9 has said on this thread this morning is laudable, and I've got absolutely no problem with it at all. I just suspect that he's never going to go any further than posting about it anonymously on a football forum. After all this is the man who declined a meeting with Stewart Gilmour just a few short weeks ago after his bowels collapsed. Can we really see him turning up for takeover talks - and could we really entrust him to attend those negotiations with the ability to do a deal that would be beneficial for the supporters?

As for his campaign, well if it really is just piggybacking on the work that 10000hours have done already, why not just use the existing vehicle and stand for election onto the board. If his views are popular and the support believes he has the trust and integrity to deliver then he'd be an absolute shoe in, surely.

Finally I'd also be interested to hear how Somner9 believes that splitting the support even further with a third group - we've already got SMiSA and 10000hours - will help realise any of his goals at all especially since there would be at least two competing bids for the 52% shareholding.

Didnae fancy my post so you opt for a personal attack on somner9.

Somner9 is a nutter, but has a few decent ideas every now and then - bit like myself. However, the reality of 10000 Hours that other than getting the support of the fans through scaremongering they have achieved the sum total of f"k all. The funding has been a disaster, the corporate / commercial bollox that was meant to replace it has been a failure - I really don't see why they should be allowed to run the club based on their performance to date. Bizarrely enough the one area where you would hope they would be strong - in convincing the corporate / commercial support to back their plan - has been a shambles.

So you are basically left with a desire for fan ownership being supported by rank and file fans - many of whom have expressed concerns about the plans and the people involved. Looking at a model that does not include the leaders that are failing to deliver it seems like a reasonable suggestion. Particularly in the scenario that you describe where the club is no longer an attractive commercial proposition.