10000Hours Update: 23Rd July 2012

[Guest somner9]

FFS, this is piss-poor even by your standards.

You have failed to bold a few relevant passages in there. For example....

As announced by the Board last week, the Club could face a revenue drop in the coming season forecast to be in the region of....

At worst the board of directors have told the fans and shareholders of the club that it could be faced with....

In short we do not want to draw down the original funds unless they are to be expressly used for the purpose for which they were pledged [this somewhat undermines your claim - "the killer line that 83.5% of 10000 members would be willing to give their monthly subs to the BoD!"]

The 4th question was worded thus:

In the event of SPL Commercial revenues reducing would you, working with the CIC and SMFC, be prepared to support the club through increased pledges and donations ? (Depending on the funding required this may delay the purchase for a year with your monthly contribution going towards helping the club directly while helping to maintain the integrity of Scottish Football)

This only makes reference to increased pledges and donations, not the use of the DD mandate money already received.

re your bold, read above thats not how 10000 hours (holders of said DD mandates) see it! They say 83.5% of us have given them the green light to pass the cash to the BoD

Now whose on the BoD again, oh damn there names are on the tip of my tongue, Stuart, Richard, Chris.....

[saint in exile]

Sorry whose on the board these days? ah yes it's those 10000 hours guys is it not?

I don't know the make up of the Board, but I'm sure it's not exclusively 10000hrs people - otherwise why try to buy the club? They'd already have control. I'm not a big fan of the 1000hrs scheme (I see it as the best in a list of bad options) but you've blamed them for everything except the bloody weather!!!

[Guest somner9]

I don't know the make up of the Board, but I'm sure it's not exclusively 10000hrs people - otherwise why try to buy the club? They'd already have control. I'm not a big fan of the 1000hrs scheme (I see it as the best in a list of bad options) but you've blamed them for everything except the bloody weather!!!

Did i miss the weather? doesn't shower of shite cover that?

[Mr Zo]

Shower of jokers....its the behaviour you would expect of a david murray board, not a board trying to front the takeover of a community club.

Are St Mirren Board meetings now driven by REA and SG carving up scheme after scheme to try and ramp up supporters investment into the club for zero return. I would give SG the benefit of the doubt for previous service to the club. Time for the troublemaking 10000 hrs mob to shut up shop (a poorly stocked one) and head for them thar hills before The Duke starts clearing house.....The magnificent seven were a shower of preening fannies. Big Marion will sort them out.

You sound a bit like Stuart Dickson and his hatred of Mr Gilmour. Did 10000 hours give you some sort of dressing down in a meeting and you are now taking the biggest toys out the pram strop seen on here since Gilmour threatened a young Mr Dickson with a night in Mill Street all those years ago? Did they not think you were bonnie enough to front their poster campaign?

[civilsaint]

I sincerely hope that once the negotiations re-start that 10000hours will severely adjust their offer downwards by at least 500k. As the chairman was so eager to tells only 2 weeks ago the club was the verge collapse, I assume that the asking price will be reflected. A failing business cannot be valued the same as a successful business, can it?

[santaponsasaint]

You are not being honest....and you actually are pretty sure if you are being honest with yourself and your fellow supporters. The rumours of financially calamity if the newco weren't supported were started by 10000 hrs not SMFC.....although they appear to be one and the same at the moment so long as the club is controlled by the 52% shareholding - which is the catalyst for all this shite, and the biggest threat to the clubs future.

Shut up ya boring c**t, Nothing but drivel all day long, BTW going out with the dog so email yer pal to watch for us ya sad bastard

[St. Sid]

I sat in the SMFC boardroom a few weeks back, and it wasn't Richard Atkinson who was forecasting financial catastrophe if the newco weren't in the 1st Division.

You're talking bollocks now John, and you know that fine well. The PDE did carry a story a good while back in which someone from 10000Hours apparently referred to a financial apocalypse, and I was no more impressed with that than I have been with the club making such utterences, but you are twisting this beyond any meaningful interpretation due to your apparent desperation to put the boot into 10000Hours at any and every opportunity.

Overly defensive post and one that ignores some pretty glaring facts Drew. 10000 hours started the scaremongering via REA at the public meeting although the main scaremongering at that meeting was around the "foreign investors" which is also bollox. It was followed up by statements on here and then in an FAQ on the fishal 10000 hrs FAQ section - which is still there:

It would be the obligation of the Football Club board to clearly explain the financial implications that a yes or no vote would have on the Football Club.

For example a No vote may affect our income by up to £500k a year. The football club board would have to provide definitive options as to how that could be handled to allow the club to stay solvent. This would allow members to make an informed decision.

A Yes vote could be on the condition that Club voting reform happens thus enabling the expansion of the SPL without the blocking vote of only 2 Clubs

There was a series of 10000 hrs articles in the PDE ramping up the scaremongering long before SG or SMFC made any official statement. It was all driven by Bii's requirement for the newco to be supported as it was viewed by them as being critical for the financial health of SMFC. Bii recognised that 10000 hrs would not be able to support cashflow issues at SMFC.

You are trying to make the selling consortium / 10000 hrs scaremongering personal. It is not...it is all there in black and white. I didn;t twist their arm to make press releases or hold public meetings or refer to the newco situation in FAQs. That was a strategy the selling consortium / 10000 hrs decided to employ and it has backfired. And for the avoidance of doubt the SMFC BoD is now the selling consortium + 10000 hrs.....the same bawbags that are ripping off disabled fans whilst telling us they are all about the fans and the community.

[St. Sid]

Shut up ya boring c**t, Nothing but drivel all day long, BTW going out with the dog so email yer pal to watch for us ya sad bastard

SPS I am not responsible for 10000 hrs turning out to be a lot of shite.....they are.

[Drew]

Overly defensive post and one that ignores some pretty glaring facts Drew. 10000 hours started the scaremongering via REA at the public meeting although the main scaremongering at that meeting was around the "foreign investors" which is also bollox. It was followed up by statements on here and then in an FAQ on the fishal 10000 hrs FAQ section - which is still there:

There was a series of 10000 hrs articles in the PDE ramping up the scaremongering long before SG or SMFC made any official statement. It was all driven by Bii's requirement for the newco to be supported as it was viewed by them as being critical for the financial health of SMFC. Bii recognised that 10000 hrs would not be able to support cashflow issues at SMFC.

You are trying to make the selling consortium / 10000 hrs scaremongering personal. It is not...it is all there in black and white. I didn;t twist their arm to make press releases or hold public meetings or refer to the newco situation in FAQs. That was a strategy the selling consortium / 10000 hrs decided to employ and it has backfired. And for the avoidance of doubt the SMFC BoD is now the selling consortium + 10000 hrs.....the same bawbags that are ripping off disabled fans whilst telling us they are all about the fans and the community.

Overly defensive post and one that ignores some pretty glaring facts Drew. 10000 hours started the scaremongering via REA at the public meeting although the main scaremongering at that meeting was around the "foreign investors" which is also bollox. It was followed up by statements on here and then in an FAQ on the fishal 10000 hrs FAQ section - which is still there:

There was a series of 10000 hrs articles in the PDE ramping up the scaremongering long before SG or SMFC made any official statement. It was all driven by Bii's requirement for the newco to be supported as it was viewed by them as being critical for the financial health of SMFC. Bii recognised that 10000 hrs would not be able to support cashflow issues at SMFC.

You are trying to make the selling consortium / 10000 hrs scaremongering personal. It is not...it is all there in black and white. I didn;t twist their arm to make press releases or hold public meetings or refer to the newco situation in FAQs. That was a strategy the selling consortium / 10000 hrs decided to employ and it has backfired. And for the avoidance of doubt the SMFC BoD is now the selling consortium + 10000 hrs.....the same bawbags that are ripping off disabled fans whilst telling us they are all about the fans and the community.

What have I got to be defensive about?

I've always been openly sceptical about the CiC/10000Hours and the actions of the consortium. I'm not the one with any agenda here.

Its incredible that you are claiming that I am trying to make scaremongering personal. If you had the time and inclination, you'd find that I've been more than a little cynical about the motivation behind touting the financial apocalypse position. There is in no way, shape or form peronal. You're struggling nearly as badly as somner here, John. My advice would be that you chuck it before you lose your cuddly WOM image and merely make a rip-roaring cnut of yourself over this.

[Stuart Dickson]

What have I got to be defensive about?

I've always been openly sceptical about the CiC/10000Hours and the actions of the consortium. I'm not the one with any agenda here.

Its incredible that you are claiming that I am trying to make scaremongering personal. If you had the time and inclination, you'd find that I've been more than a little cynical about the motivation behind touting the financial apocalypse position. There is in no way, shape or form peronal. You're struggling nearly as badly as somner here, John. My advice would be that you chuck it before you lose your cuddly WOM image and merely make a rip-roaring cnut of yourself over this.

Drew, I was at the meeting with you and others and I have to say that I agree with you 100%. Whether you agree with the CIC or not the hard fact was that Atkinson sat in on the meeting and hardly said a word. All the "scaremongering" if it was that was coming from Gilmour, McAusland and Campbell. Atkinson looked perfectly relaxed and only contributed when asked by Gilmour to give the group the definition of what was a corporate sponsor and what kind of companies generally sponsor St Mirren.

It was exactly the kind of dynamic I would have expected. After all the consortium have the most to lose from the club going into administration. They have a personal investment that they are trying to cash in for as much money as possible. From where I am sitting I can't understand why anyone would think it was in 10000hours best interests to ramp up panic amongst the St Mirren support that would see take action to prop up the share price when surely 10000hours interests would have been far better served had the club gone into administration and they could pick up the shares for buttons.

[WDR]

Does anyone know (1) how much per share the 52% consortium paid for their shares;

(2) when they bought their shares?

AFAIK, they have approx 100,000 shares (being 52% of 198,000) which they originally, two years ago, wanted to sell at £20 per share. The "SPL market" has gone down, and the price has gone down to approx £13-£15 per share now.

What would be a sensible price, inflation-adjusted, for the consortium?

Some of them must have first got their shares some 20 years ago.

[Stuart Dickson]

Does anyone know (1) how much per share the 52% consortium paid for their shares;

(2) when they bought their shares?

AFAIK, they have approx 100,000 shares (being 52% of 198,000) which they originally, two years ago, wanted to sell at £20 per share. The "SPL market" has gone down, and the price has gone down to approx £13-£15 per share now.

What would be a sensible price, inflation-adjusted, for the consortium?

Some of them must have first got their shares some 20 years ago.

As far as I know some of them inherited their shares so putting a valuation might be difficult however I'm pretty sure I saw a figure for the sale being put at £13odd somewhere when they were talking about the 1877 group on here.

[santaponsasaint]

SPS I am not responsible for 10000 hrs turning out to be a lot of shite.....they are.

No, Your just the boring twat that never shuts up about, you know f**k all so give it a rest,

[santaponsasaint]

Drew, I was at the meeting with you and others and I have to say that I agree with you 100%. Whether you agree with the CIC or not the hard fact was that Atkinson sat in on the meeting and hardly said a word. All the "scaremongering" if it was that was coming from Gilmour, McAusland and Campbell. Atkinson looked perfectly relaxed and only contributed when asked by Gilmour to give the group the definition of what was a corporate sponsor and what kind of companies generally sponsor St Mirren.

It was exactly the kind of dynamic I would have expected. After all the consortium have the most to lose from the club going into administration. They have a personal investment that they are trying to cash in for as much money as possible. From where I am sitting I can't understand why anyone would think it was in 10000hours best interests to ramp up panic amongst the St Mirren support that would see take action to prop up the share price when surely 10000hours interests would have been far better served had the club gone into administration and they could pick up the shares for buttons.

I was at said meeting and your right SD, RA was very calm, He seems to be a bit more relaxed about it all, like he knows something nobody else does and hes holding the aces, but i could be wrong,

[pozbaird]

I was at said meeting and your right SD, RA was very calm, He seems to be a bit more relaxed about it all, like he knows something nobody else does and hes holding the aces, but i could be wrong,

I was at the meeting too - and I still haven't a scooby if SGs 'armageddon scenario' was down to the SPL actually feeding him a message of impending financial disaster, or if he was just guessing how bad it could be, or if in any way, he was/is worried about seeing 1.25 million for his shares disappear down a U-bend marked 'Rangers'.

I genuinely have no idea, maybe a mixture of them all?

[beyond our ken]

I don't know the make up of the Board, but I'm sure it's not exclusively 10000hrs people - otherwise why try to buy the club? They'd already have control. I'm not a big fan of the 1000hrs scheme (I see it as the best in a list of bad options) but you've blamed them for everything except the bloody weather!!!

Why would anyone want to support a bad option?

[St. Sid]

What have I got to be defensive about?

I've always been openly sceptical about the CiC/10000Hours and the actions of the consortium. I'm not the one with any agenda here.

Its incredible that you are claiming that I am trying to make scaremongering personal. If you had the time and inclination, you'd find that I've been more than a little cynical about the motivation behind touting the financial apocalypse position. There is in no way, shape or form peronal. You're struggling nearly as badly as somner here, John. My advice would be that you chuck it before you lose your cuddly WOM image and merely make a rip-roaring cnut of yourself over this.

An interesting post on a number of levels Drew; however you are accusing me of having a personal issue with 10000 hrs..." you are twisting this beyond any meaningful interpretation due to your apparent desperation to put the boot into 10000Hours at any and every opportunity." That is clearly not the case. My response to you outlined communications from 10000 hrs relating to scaremongering. 10000 hrs were accused of scaremongering by fans long before the selling consortium joined in. My position is quite clear - both the selling consortium and 10000 hrs have engaged in scaremongering.

I will not be accepting your advice regarding chucking it......my points might not suit your "agenda". However they are fair points and I am more than happy to make them. If you disagree with them you ahve the same opportunity as any other poster to counter them. Rather than do that you have opted for a personal attack..."You're struggling nearly as badly as somner here, John. My advice would be that you chuck it before you lose your cuddly WOM image and merely make a rip-roaring cnut of yourself over this."....more than happy to trade insults with you as I enjoy that sort of thing. However, the bottom line is that 10000 hrs have scaremongered about "foreign investors" and about "financial armageddon" and frankly it has all been bollox. Meanwhile not a peep from them about the financial position. If you can post how the finances are going to work and how the club will manage cashflow issues such as the one that has caused Bii to postpone any deal then let's see them.

[Drew]

"....more than happy to trade insults with you as I enjoy that sort of thing.

I'll opt for an eye and needle interface over that one, if that's okay with you.

[St. Sid]

I'll opt for an eye and needle interface over that one, if that's okay with you.

There you are....nice Drew again without all the angry sweary rhetoric.

We've heard some amount of bullshit from the powers that be and the powers that want to be over the last few weeks. There's be public meetings and scaremongering galore......and yet no cnut is prepared to divulge to the fans what is actually going on. There's around 1,000 fans or so signed up to it....some of whom were responding to the "or else" scaremongering. There's a few thousand Saints fans that have opted not to back the plan at all despite the scaremongering. Whilst all the bollox continues fans will get pissed off and turn their back on the club. All at a time when we see events elsewhere sickening many supporters.

We need leadership at the club now. Instead we get silence and then a frankly insulting statement from 10000 hrs telling us they were only joking about the financial armageddon. And worse it refers to a statement from SMFC that doesn't even exist. It's a shambles and I struggle to see how anyone can argue that it isn't a shambles. Time to kill it stone dead and move on from it.

[Drew]

There you are....nice Drew again without all the angry sweary rhetoric.

We've heard some amount of bullshit from the powers that be and the powers that want to be over the last few weeks. There's be public meetings and scaremongering galore......and yet no cnut is prepared to divulge to the fans what is actually going on. There's around 1,000 fans or so signed up to it....some of whom were responding to the "or else" scaremongering. There's a few thousand Saints fans that have opted not to back the plan at all despite the scaremongering. Whilst all the bollox continues fans will get pissed off and turn their back on the club. All at a time when we see events elsewhere sickening many supporters.

We need leadership at the club now. Instead we get silence and then a frankly insulting statement from 10000 hrs telling us they were only joking about the financial armageddon. And worse it refers to a statement from SMFC that doesn't even exist. It's a shambles and I struggle to see how anyone can argue that it isn't a shambles. Time to kill it stone dead and move on from it.

I don't disagree with much of what you say here.

As always, the supporters are a bit of an afterthought when it comes to clarifing what is really going on. This is nothing new, in my experience, the club's PR has pretty much always been lamentable, and this is why I'm not convinced that directing your ire predominantly at 10000Hours is the right way to go.

[St. Sid]

I don't disagree with much of what you say here.

As always, the supporters are a bit of an afterthought when it comes to clarifing what is really going on. This is nothing new, in my experience, the club's PR has pretty much always been lamentable, and this is why I'm not convinced that directing your ire predominantly at 10000Hours is the right way to go.

I have no ire Drew. I have been looking at 10000 hrs and the selling consortium situation for over three years and am comfortable with my contemporary perspective that it is a lot of shite. You should also note that I am equally skaving of the selling consortium and the creation of a 52% shareholding for sale. Once you remove that 52% shareholding you remove the threat to the club. That is what fans should be campaigning for now. 10000 hrs has been a complete disaster.

[saint in exile]

Why would anyone want to support a bad option?

When there's no good option??????????

[santaponsasaint]

I have no ire Drew. I have been looking at 10000 hrs and the selling consortium situation for over three years and am comfortable with my contemporary perspective that it is a lot of shite. You should also note that I am equally skaving of the selling consortium and the creation of a 52% shareholding for sale. Once you remove that 52% shareholding you remove the threat to the club. That is what fans should be campaigning for now. 10000 hrs has been a complete disaster.

FFS shut up. knob,

[St. Sid]

FFS shut up. knob,

[smcc]

I have no ire Drew. I have been looking at 10000 hrs and the selling consortium situation for over three years and am comfortable with my contemporary perspective that it is a lot of shite. You should also note that I am equally skaving of the selling consortium and the creation of a 52% shareholding for sale. Once you remove that 52% shareholding you remove the threat to the club. That is what fans should be campaigning for now. 10000 hrs has been a complete disaster.

Perhaps you have a cunning plan to "remove the 52% shareholding". These shares exist and are owned by the selling consortium. Not even you can make them vanish into thin air. Do you mean that the members of the consortium should be prevented from selling their shares if someone wants to pay the asking price?