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US Based Bidder Revealed

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I'm bored shitless with this situation now. If I'm being brutally honest, I'm already thinking of other ways to spend my monthly tenner.

I can't even be arsed reading any posts on this thread. This isn't to say that I don't think they're worthy of a read - I'm just not convinced that I care that much any longer. What a terrible shame that it has come to this.

That more or less sums up how I feel about the whole thing. From the very beginning I had concerns about how the whole thing would pan out and how long it would take to do so. With most things in life there's always the danger of folk becoming restless and frustrated to the point where they think "this is taking too long, I can't be doing with it" and so they move on.

I've been wavering with my love of football for a few years now if I'm totally honest with myself. Renewing my Season Ticket year after year has become like a habit or way of life that I am used to doing, the same with watching football on the television. I felt some real excitement during the Olympic and Paralympic Games, excitement like I hadn't experienced in a long time and it made me think and feel very different about modern football, the people playing it and the people in charge of it all.

Edited for typo(s).

Edited by Obi-Wan Ben Kenobi

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That more or less sums up how I feel about the whole thing. From the very beginning I had concerns about how the whole thing would pan out and how long it would take to do so. With most things in life there's always the danger of folk becoming restless and frustrated to the point where they think "this is taking too long, I can't be doing with it" and so they move on.

I've been wavering with my love of football for a few years now if I'm totally honest for myself. Renewing my Season Ticket year after year has become like a habit or way of like that I am used to doing, the same with watching football on the television. I felt some real excitement during the Olympic and Paralympic Games, excitement like I hadn't experienced in a long time and it made me think and feel very different about modern football, the people playing it and the people in charge of it all.

I agree with the last part especially. The Olympics has been a huge eye opener in terms of what other sports have to offer at the highest level.

The thing about boardroom takeovers in football is that it very often exposes just how poisonous the politics of the sport is. This summer we've also seen the underbelly of Scottish Football as well with this whole Rangers issue and the ridiculous, grasping attempts by boardrooms to gerrymander the league structure to protect their own self interests and St Mirren fans will have witnessed their own Chairman - previously a hero - shamefully ripping into SFL Chairmen for not cowing to overwhelming pressure and voting in a way that Stewart Gilmour himself didn't have the balls to do. It's hardly a wonder fans are bored and that interested has waned.

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I'm bored shitless with this situation now. If I'm being brutally honest, I'm already thinking of other ways to spend my monthly tenner.

I can't even be arsed reading any posts on this thread. This isn't to say that I don't think they're worthy of a read - I'm just not convinced that I care that much any longer. What a terrible shame that it has come to this.

Feel exactly the same as this. I won't cancel yet, though.

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Guest somner9

I will happily to retract the stuff about Ayrshire and offer an apology on that if you want one - it was Sid who was beating the drum on that front.

When someone accuses someone else of being a bigot, depending on the context the accusation might suggest someone was being racist or sectarian but this doesn't have to be the case. A bigot can be someone who is intolerant of any different opinion from their own or someone who is so convinced that they are right that they show no interest in compromise or giving people with a different opinion a fair hearing.

Your last two posts have asked the moderators to intervene and censor or remove my posts. Point proven?

According to you my masculinity depends on agreeing to re-read all your old posts and begin requoting them on the board to substantiate my claim that you have attacked Richard Atkinson personally. Several other people have pointed this out to you on this thread already but you don't seem to accept you have done this.

You were the one who brought up RA's involvement with the Scottish Bible Society and said he had told bare faced lies and surely this went against what the Bible said about being honest with your followers... or words to that effect. First you bring up his involvement with a religious group, then you accuse him of lying and being a hypocrite, then later when i challenged you on this you say you don't know what he believes and any religious beliefs he has are not important to you or your view of him and you've been careful not to suggest he has lied or leaked stories to the press.

If Richard Atkinson's religious views are not important to you and if you don't know anything about those why did you introduce his directorship at Scottish Bible Society into the debate here and accuse him of going against the Bible by telling bare faced lies?

My recollection of the last public meeting was that when Tony Fitzpatrick began dropping hints that Massone may be one of the rival / other bidders that Richard Atkinson interrupted him and said to the meeting that some of the names mentioned in the press had not bid for the club and there were interested parties whose names hadn't been mentioned in the press or guessed at from the floor on the night of the meeting. His position on Rangers at the time of that meeting was he thought the tide had turned and no one would vote for them to re-enter the SPL as a newco and taking the SFA to court had blown away any support they previously had in any SPL clubs and that it was unknown territory as to what would happen with TV deals and sponsorship money with Rangers' involvement... he seemed to think the most likely scenario was that some value would be lost from TV and sponsorship but if there wasn't a massive change then St Mirren would cope... he could also see a doomsday scenario if Sky pulled out completely but didn't know how likely that was and also thought that more optimistically there was a small chance St Mirren might benefit financially... if standing up at the vote meant more St Mirren fans attended games in support of the stance and if some disgruntled bears came along to our games as neutrals or we got a bigger slice of a smaller TV deal. I can't remember seeing many quotes from Richard Atkinson saying he was in favour of keeping Rangers in the SPL or SFL1 so that St Mirren would avoid a financial Armageddon... if anyone made those type of statements it was our chairman rather than our commercial director.

Somner feel free to suggest where my posts pointing out your own narrow-minded bigoted posts were indictaing you were anti-Catholic or anti-protestant (if that is what you think i meant by bigoted).

Mods yet again this poster calls me a bigot, do you intend to do anything about this? Or are you happy to let the forum descend into the narrow-minded sectarian name calling seen on blue/green vermin forums?

Dibbles INSISTS and continues to INSIST that i am a bigot because i don't see why the money making opportunities at our club should be given away by 10000 hours to their friends. I don't care who their friends are, the colour of their skin, their creed, religion ,culture etc it matters not a jot. What i do care for is SMFC not being asset stripped by any third parties because they happen to be mates with ReA.

And still you either refuse to get it, or can't get it! Why is pointing out ReA's directorships of various orginisations bigotted? I pointed out he is Director of Horse Scotland...! By your logic that makes me bigotted towards all things equine!

I pointed out he is a director at SMFC..! by your logic am I indeed bigotted towarsd my club of 40 odd years????

Did i say he lied, yes I did and backed it up with reference to two statements he made HERE. Of course you'll be able to prove this wrong?... No? didn't think so

Is there anyone other than you that doesn't believe the BoD (which has several 10000 hours types on it) didn't try to slot scumgers into Div 1??? I don't think they'll be many in as much denial as you.

You can apologise for calling me without any foundation a bigot, everyone reading this will know exactly what inference you were making, and trying to weedle out of it makes it look more pathetic in each post. Or as coward you can continue to throw wild allegations of religious intolerance without any evidence showing a complete lack of maturity and responsibility for your actions.

I am happy to be judged by my peers, if you want to discuss this in person without the anonymity (Not an offer of a square go) then lets get it on! Man up and stand by your accusations or apologise! whats it to be dibbles?

Edited by somner9

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"Us" as in over 1,000 fellow St.Mirren fans who are still involved with the bid.

"Official online mouthpiece" - you mean in the same way that we have a full section of the forum purely dedicated to SMiSA then ?

This is the busiest online forum for St.Mirren supporters on the internet. 10000Hours tried to set up their own forum but all the traffic related to the sale continued to be discussed here so it was mothballed and fans were enagged directly on here.

The "Sale of St.Mirren Forum" has never had a single post or topic removed or edited despite some slanderous posts being made about the bid and members of the bid team, in fact anyone reading this section of the forum is far more likely to decide not to bother getting involved such is the volume of (mostly completely made up) crap that has been posted in here. Still it remains, as this is and always will be an independent St.Mirren supporters website.

Personally I am right behind the fans bid for control of the club, and that is my right to have an opinion the same as anyone else I'd have thought ?

10 years I have been running this site so you will forgive me for being more than a little f**ked off when I read shit like this.

For every one signed up st.mirren fan theres at least four that hasnt signed up. Why has the majorit of st.mirren fans turned their back on 10k hours. I think every fan would rather see the club in supporter ownership but 10k hours isn't convincing us. Why is that? So when the unofficial forum refers to 10k hours as 'us' then its actually representing a minority.

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion as am I, even though mines is shite and yours isnt, in your opinion, of course.

So, agree with 10k and you're fine, voice concern and your opinion is shit, ok, I get it.

As for smisa, yes, you are correct, if they don't have their own forum and you also run their website for them. Although I have never seen you refer to smisa as us even though they are the largest independent supporters assc (again, representing a minority)

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Feel exactly the same as this. I won't cancel yet, though.

I've not cancelled yet, either, but I'm rapidly losing any enthusiasm for this whole scenario.

Debacle is the word that springs to mind. I'm not looking to apportion blame in this, I just feel that none of the parties involved have covered themselves in glory.

Confidence and trust are arguably the two biggest prerequisites when expecting people to buy into and/or support any initiative on this scale (and this equally applies to any sale to a private individual or consortium). To be frank, I'm not sure I have either, in respect of any of those involved.

Edit for typo

Edited by Drew

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For every one signed up st.mirren fan theres at least four that hasnt signed up. Why has the majorit of st.mirren fans turned their back on 10k hours. I think every fan would rather see the club in supporter ownership but 10k hours isn't convincing us. Why is that? So when the unofficial forum refers to 10k hours as 'us' then its actually representing a minority.

If I post on the forum I am posting as me, if I am a member of 10000Hours, which I am, then I will collectively post as "us". Is that ok with you ?

On the main homepage of the site where I report news about St.Mirren you will see that I never refer to 10000Hours as "us".

Not sure why you are making an issue of this ?

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion as am I, even though mines is shite and yours isnt, in your opinion, of course.

Can you show me where I said that please ?

As for smisa, yes, you are correct, if they don't have their own forum and you also run their website for them. Although I have never seen you refer to smisa as us even though they are the largest independent supporters assc (again, representing a minority)

SMiSA have had their own section here on B&W Army for many years, I was a founding member of SMiSA and contributed monthly subs to the organisation for the first few years, until the stadium was sold and the financial pressures at the club reduced.

I ran all the bidding processes for the first 4 Saints Aid events and I also host the current SMiSA website at zero cost to the organisation. Admittedly the website is a bit of a shambles now but I'm up for helping out with that when I get time and if the guys there ask me to do so.

I'm not currently a SMiSA member, hence I do not collectively refer to the group as "us" but same applies, always happy to publicise any SMiSA event or news story on the homepage if and when I am asked or something crops up.

Seems I am not allowed to have an opinion on anything because I happen to provide the platform for everyone else to debate St.Mirren issues. That seems fair !

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Can you show me where I said that please ?

eh? it was only a couple of posts ago. you highlighted my post when i declared this forum as the official mouthpiece of 10k hours and wrote the following:

10 years I have been running this site so you will forgive me for being more than a little f**ked off when I read shit like this.

and whilst we are clarifying points, where did i state that you were not allowed one (opinions that is)?

Edited by Evil_Panda

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What i do care for is SMFC not being asset stripped by any third parties because they happen to be mates with ReA.

some might say that you have just slandered Richard Atkinson again and also no doubt the Life Church and Kibbleworks again if they are the third parties you are referring to.

It is OK for you to throw wild accusations around left right and centre but as soon as anyone calls you on it or throws any accusations your own way you go ape and yell slander and please censor the posts becaus eyou demand a personal apology.

Do you still not see any irony in your posts and protestations?

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Guest somner9

some might say that you have just slandered Richard Atkinson again and also no doubt the Life Church and Kibbleworks again if they are the third parties you are referring to.

It is OK for you to throw wild accusations around left right and centre but as soon as anyone calls you on it or throws any accusations your own way you go ape and yell slander and please censor the posts becaus eyou demand a personal apology.

Do you still not see any irony in your posts and protestations?

no there is no irony in my posts, I back them up with facts!

Fact - ReA made two statements on this forum. One where he said the Void/bar/function area would be under the control of the CiC, only a few weeks late to state that in fact it would be as he always intended under the control of Kibble/Life church. That is a fact, he told us here. Is repeating highlighting what someone has said slander? No it isn't.

What are your facts?

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I was sceptical, then got behind it, but when I saw one of the main players quite casually telling supporters some big fat whoppers, then I thought it was time to head for the exits.

If other folk are happy to stay with a bid where the main man has been shown to openly lie to SMFC supporters, then to paraphrase the late, great SunnyFoxbarSaint, "Yer aff yer f**kin' heid". thumbdown.gif

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I was sceptical, then got behind it, but when I saw one of the main players quite casually telling supporters some big fat whoppers, then I thought it was time to head for the exits.

If other folk are happy to stay with a bid where the main man has been shown to openly lie to SMFC supporters, then to paraphrase the late, great SunnyFoxbarSaint, "Yer aff yer f**kin' heid". thumbdown.gif

can you go into any details on what was being said?

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no there is no irony in my posts, I back them up with facts!

Fact - ReA made two statements on this forum. One where he said the Void/bar/function area would be under the control of the CiC, only a few weeks late to state that in fact it would be as he always intended under the control of Kibble/Life church. That is a fact, he told us here. Is repeating highlighting what someone has said slander? No it isn't.

What are your facts?

It is slander to suggest that a St Mirren director would let his friends asset strip the club... something you said in your previous post.

It is slander to say that SG and co trousered the Tesco money and I loved watching your climbdown on that one: to paraphrase somner when the threat on legal action was raised, 'well what i meant was that after the Tesco money had built Greenhill Road, demolished Love Street, repaid the bank and started the work at Ralston the directors got their loans to the club repaid'.

It is slander to say the consortium would empty the club accounts of season ticket money and money from the SPL upon completing a sale of the club and keep that money for themselves as it is normal business practice to do this when you sell a company, or that they would have sold Mclean and / or McGowan and kept money for those sales for themselves rather than it staying in the club accounts if they accepted a lower offer than what they were looking for / expecting from the sale of the club.

You are obsessed with accusing directors who don't take any renumeration from the club of looking out for opportunities to line their own pockets when a ground is sold or the club is sold or when a CIC is set up they get their friends to asset-strip the club. You've been light on evidence for those accusations and I don't remember reading that you had gone to meet SG and REA in person to offer them a profound and personal apology.

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eh? it was only a couple of posts ago. you highlighted my post when i declared this forum as the official mouthpiece of 10k hours and wrote the following:

Apologies for the confusion. I will clarify.

Your opinion about this forum being an official mouthpiece of 10000hours IS shit, and I have already pointed out why. You may not agree, but that particular issue is, if you will excuse the pun, pretty black and white. You are entirely wrong there and are confusing my personal opinion with that of the site as a whole. If you accept that I am actually allowed an opinion then you will also accept that if I post something as me then it does not reflect the position of the entire website ?

Your opinion about whether 10000Hours is shit or not is entirely up to you. I don't agree that fan ownership of the club could in any way be described as being shit, however I respect that many other fans don't like the bid or the people involved with it. Fair enough.

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Guest somner9

It is slander to suggest that a St Mirren director would let his friends asset strip the club... something you said in your previous post.

Correct me if i'm wrong but gifting the money making opportunities at SMP is by definition Gifting/stripping assets away from the club whereby they can no longer consider them to be assets of the club?

It is slander to say that SG and co trousered the Tesco money and I loved watching your climbdown on that one: to paraphrase somner when the threat on legal action was raised, 'well what i meant was that after the Tesco money had built Greenhill Road, demolished Love Street, repaid the bank and started the work at Ralston the directors got their loans to the club repaid'.

nice of you to highlight my words exactly, however adding your spin to it detracts as you are no longer dealing in fact

It is slander to say the consortium would empty the club accounts of season ticket money and money from the SPL upon completing a sale of the club and keep that money for themselves as it is normal business practice to do this when you sell a company, or that they would have sold Mclean and / or McGowan and kept money for those sales for themselves rather than it staying in the club accounts if they accepted a lower offer than what they were looking for / expecting from the sale of the club.

See you've made something up about season ticket money that is not connected with me! And if you bothered to quote me directly again as above you would be highlighting me asking the question "Could!!! the sale of said players, be trousered by the Bod and not elft for any incoming majority shareholders?" I and probably most others here know what the ;ikely outcome of that would have been had the BoD accepted a lower bid with transfer money coming in, and frankly I doubt given that they have shored the club up for years many of us would object!

You are obsessed with accusing directors who don't take any renumeration from the club of looking out for opportunities to line their own pockets when a ground is sold or the club is sold or when a CIC is set up they get their friends to asset-strip the club. You've been light on evidence for those accusations and I don't remember reading that you had gone to meet SG and REA in person to offer them a profound and personal apology.

I don't have to accuse 10000 hours, ReA etc, they have come on here and told us they are gifting the asset of the void/bar to Kibble/Life church in exchange for 'Peppercorn rent' which could be as little as ONE POUND.... now that is an asset gifted/stripped from the club for ONE POUND

Maybe they should be apologising to the fans of SMFC and members of the CiC who may not be aware of the deal they have done?

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I don't have to accuse 10000 hours, ReA etc, they have come on here and told us they are gifting the asset of the void/bar to Kibble/Life church in exchange for 'Peppercorn rent' which could be as little as ONE POUND.... now that is an asset gifted/stripped from the club for ONE POUND

Maybe they should be apologising to the fans of SMFC and members of the CiC who may not be aware of the deal they have done?

Why don't you man up and stop being an anonymous keyboard warrior and take your asset-stripping concerns at SMFC via REA / Life Church and Kibbleworks to the Serious Fraud office: http://www.sfo.gov.uk/fraud/what-is-fraud/corporate-fraud/asset-stripping.aspx?

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Guest somner9

Why don't you man up and stop being an anonymous keyboard warrior and take your asset-stripping concerns at SMFC via REA / Life Church and Kibbleworks to the Serious Fraud office: http://www.sfo.gov.u...-stripping.aspx?

Loving this quotelol.giflol.giflol.gif

You do know it isn't illegal to asset strip? don't you???

thing is in this instance ReA et all are "GIFTING" an asset to third parties for a return of as little as ONE POUND.... now why would they do that?

Edited by somner9

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thing is in this instance ReA et all are "GIFTING" an asset to third parties for a return of as little as ONE POUND.... now why would they do that?

beacuse those third parties are footing the six figure bill to fit it out ?

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Loving this quotelol.giflol.giflol.gif

You do know it isn't illegal to asset strip? don't you???

thing is in this instance ReA et all are "GIFTING" an asset to third parties for a return of as little as ONE POUND.... now why would they do that?

I'm sure REA would be failing in his duties as a director of the club if he deliberately brought his friends in to asset strip a club he is a director of? Please do tell me more oh manly one.

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Guest somner9

beacuse those third parties are footing the six figure bill to fit it out ?

Indeed they are, but for rent as low as One Pound, a modern facility, with seven day access, great communication links, ample car parking and 20 odd home games with 4000 - 8000 potential customers. It's ano brainer business opportunity! It's just the profit goes to the third parties, and the club doesn't even get market rent!

Sounds a bit like the business plan presented to SG et al two weeks ago, the numbers just don't add up for the club!

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Guest somner9

I'm sure REA would be failing in his duties as a director of the club if he deliberately brought his friends in to asset strip a club he is a director of? Please do tell me more oh manly one.

he's the best person to ask WHY? I'm sure he'll have achat with you if you want to ask him why?

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Indeed they are, but for rent as low as One Pound, a modern facility, with seven day access, great communication links, ample car parking and 20 odd home games with 4000 - 8000 potential customers. It's ano brainer business opportunity! It's just the profit goes to the third parties, and the club doesn't even get market rent!

Sounds a bit like the business plan presented to SG et al two weeks ago, the numbers just don't add up for the club!

The club will be able to make use of the void for generating revenue for themselves, I am sure we have been over this a few hundred times already.

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