Kendo Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I don't for one minute doubt what the fans can bring to the party. But MR Kendo consider this, 10000 hours have cocked up, lost funders, backers, members, credibility and told various untruths/scaremongering at every turn.... Do you really think they can all of a sudden 'Come Good'? What in the way they have behaved, and what they have failed to deliver up to and including this moment honestly makes you believe THEY will be successful? after all they've ensured they have complete control over all decisions for months/years to come! Who hasn't screwed up? To end the debate, I have decided to take a punt on them, I believe this will somehow come good in the end. You have raised several points which are hard to disagree with, however in the end my gut instinct tells me this is a good thing and we need to grab the opportunity. I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Who hasn't screwed up? To end the debate, I have decided to take a punt on them, I believe this will somehow come good in the end. You have raised several points which are hard to disagree with, however in the end my gut instinct tells me this is a good thing and we need to grab the opportunity. I could be wrong. Kendo, I really do hope you are 100% correct. I feel guilty about not believing it will somehow come good in the end. At least you have acknowledged it is a bit of a punt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Kendo, I really do hope you are 100% correct. I feel guilty about not believing it will somehow come good in the end. At least you have acknowledged it is a bit of a punt. I think that everyone connected to 10000 hours would also agree it is abit of a punt. However is it not better to put your money on fellow Buddies and work with them to make it work than to stand back and be critical of all their hard work? I would back my fellow Buddies any day before some unknown investor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) I'm not opposed to fan ownership but I have certain reservations. I imagine that a lot of our supporters feel exactly the same. But remind me how much debt the new Motherwell 'owners' have been saddled with. Was it around the £1m. mark? Are Motherwell fans contributing around £11,000 per month? I don't for a second think St.Mirren fans are too stupid to grasp the huge advantages of fan ownership but are you really saying they have turned it down? They've clearly indicated that they are not going to be sold a pup. What has put me off is the complete ineptitude shown by 10,000 hours from day one. When CIC Mark 1 was first mooted it would have been binned immediately if the level of debt now apparently confronting the fans had been considered necessary. I believe a lot of fans are pro fan ownership but they are not convinced of the viability of what is being presented to them. As of the 31st of Match The Well Society had 927 members and had raised - in actual cash, not pledged DDMs - £335,375. Now I know a lot of that was because the Well Society have set up to take a larger up front payment with reduced annual membership fees but even if there was a level of debt around the £1m mark it certainly wouldn't have scared Motherwell fans, or Leeann Dempster - and they are in a phase right now where they have a transitional unelected boardroom. Some clubs fans just got the idea straight away - some clubs fans are just too stupid. Oh and before anyone starts on information - here is what Motherwell have provided their members with and as far as I can remember they only held two public meetings. Edited September 7, 2012 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Who hasn't screwed up? To end the debate, I have decided to take a punt on them, I believe this will somehow come good in the end. You have raised several points which are hard to disagree with, however in the end my gut instinct tells me this is a good thing and we need to grab the opportunity. I could be wrong. And i wish you and every saints fan the best of luck whatever they decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 As of the 31st of Match The Well Society had 927 members and had raised - in actual cash, not pledged DDMs - £335,375. Now I know a lot of that was because the Well Society have set up to take a larger up front payment with reduced annual membership fees but even if there was a level of debt around the £1m mark it certainly wouldn't have scared Motherwell fans, or Leeann Dempster - and they are in a phase right now where they have a transitional unelected boardroom. Some clubs fans just got the idea straight away - some clubs fans are just too stupid. Oh and before anyone starts on information - here is what Motherwell have provided their members with and as far as I can remember they only held two public meetings. So 10,000 hours already have more members potentially than the Well society. But you haven't answered my question. How much debt did they inherit? 927 members @ £350 per head gives you your £350k. Not massively impressive. I genuinely believe Saints fans would have easily beaten that figure if a really viable proposition had been put to them. So, how much debt? It could just be,Stu, that the St.Mirren fans you denigrate at every possible opportunity are in fact quite bright. They just don't like the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Without going into a long winded debate, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenburn ed Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) For christ sake Somner 9 don't even attempt to explain or expand on your post, and don't anyone encourage him to do so or my f**ken head will explode. Somner9 could you expand or explain your post just to see if you can explode his head. Let's just get this clear only ONE person will be in control of the club REA ! Edited September 7, 2012 by glenburn ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 So 10,000 hours already have more members potentially than the Well society. But you haven't answered my question. How much debt did they inherit? 927 members @ £350 per head gives you your £350k. Not massively impressive. I genuinely believe Saints fans would have easily beaten that figure if a really viable proposition had been put to them. So, how much debt? It could just be,Stu, that the St.Mirren fans you denigrate at every possible opportunity are in fact quite bright. They just don't like the deal. Come off it Rick - just wade through some of the daft shite on these forums in context with the sale of these shares. Motherwell fans didn't inherit debt but they do have to provide a "guarantee" for £1.5m of cash reserves. Is that debt? No not really but it's a similar commitment to what St Mirren fans are being asked to produce and whilst you are right that the money The Well Society has raised isn't overly impressive they've got ownership of their club and they are running it - quite successfully too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Yep I'd be fully supportive of that. Alex Morgan and Hope Solo would be my preferred choices - they might even attract me to drop my boycott and pay admission to a St Mirren match. More likely to be Alex Salmond and Han Solo, knowing our luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaponsasaint Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Don't be so harsh on yourself i wont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Andy Newport is part and parcel of the 10000 hrs marketing team. We've then seen the online marketing immediately weigh in with spurious supporting scaremongering. How many times are fans going to allow themselves to be conned in this way before they realise they cannot trust a word coming out of the club and particularly10000 hrs at the moment? At least we have the ever reliable Sid to keep fans right when the club and 10000Hours can't be trusted. Sid you are a godsend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Come off it Rick - just wade through some of the daft shite on these forums in context with the sale of these shares. Motherwell fans didn't inherit debt but they do have to provide a "guarantee" for £1.5m of cash reserves. Is that debt? No not really but it's a similar commitment to what St Mirren fans are being asked to produce and whilst you are right that the money The Well Society has raised isn't overly impressive they've got ownership of their club and they are running it - quite successfully too. Being honest,Stu I couldn't be arsed wading through the Motherwell blurb. The print is very small and I had trouble making it out anyway. The guarantee you mention must have potential to become a debt and if I was involved there I really would want to see the small print. Surely the big difference is that Well don't need to pay any interest unless they bugger up big style. The interest alone on £1m would swallow up most of the £11k. per month potential donations from Saints fans. All investments should be regarded as long term and in the long term interest rates will have to rise. Potentially there is the risk that the whole bloody mess that is the world economy will go down the pan in which case it won't matter. Professional football would stop instantly along with bloody nearly everything else and you can walk away from debt. Sound familiar? The big difference is that as I understand it St.Mirren will have debt from day one and that is entirely different to the Well situation. Even at this late date nobody knows how much debt or at least if anybody does, they're saying nowt. Only the blind loyalty and love of your football team would make anyone go ahead with even £10 per month. I probably will do something because at the end of the day at worst I won't lose very much. But the stupidity is in going ahead not knowing what exactly one is signing up to. Fan ownership at any cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Rick - Stop feeding the troll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Is the 1.5 million Motherwell are putting aside not to cover an unexpected lack of funds and be used as a backup? If we found ourselves in the shit then there'd be no backup as 11 grand a month is paying off the debt. Then when that's done GLS gets his dough for his shares which are worth f**k all. Lot of money paid put for a long time before any benifit to the football club can be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Is the 1.5 million Motherwell are putting aside not to cover an unexpected lack of funds and be used as a backup? If we found ourselves in the shit then there'd be no backup as 11 grand a month is paying off the debt. Then when that's done GLS gets his dough for his shares which are worth f**k all. Lot of money paid put for a long time before any benifit to the football club can be seen. Exactly slappie! One bump in the road and the club is f**ked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Rick - Stop feeding the troll Think I'll take your advice,Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Is the 1.5 million Motherwell are putting aside not to cover an unexpected lack of funds and be used as a backup? If we found ourselves in the shit then there'd be no backup as 11 grand a month is paying off the debt. Then when that's done GLS gets his dough for his shares which are worth f**k all. Lot of money paid put for a long time before any benifit to the football club can be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Buggered up there! Just meant to say that you and I, along with quite a few others, obviously see it the same way, Slappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Is the 1.5 million Motherwell are putting aside not to cover an unexpected lack of funds and be used as a backup? If we found ourselves in the shit then there'd be no backup as 11 grand a month is paying off the debt. Then when that's done GLS gets his dough for his shares which are worth f**k all. Lot of money paid put for a long time before any benifit to the football club can be seen. In Fathell, Lanarkshire this kind of logic makes you thick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Buggered up there! Just meant to say that you and I, along with quite a few others, obviously see it the same way, Slappy. back doon the park again eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 back doon the park again eh? I promise buggery is not my thing. Neither is dogging. But doggy fashion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I promise buggery is not my thing. Neither is dogging. But doggy fashion? Is that to much protestith???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Don't know how you came to that conclusion? I've committed £3k and £20 per month to 10000 hours. I did say IMO......Based on your positive comments on a current board member remaining as chairman of the club....Sounded positive to me ...Did I pick you up wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Then two weeks ago 10000 hours release an update to say they have just checked in with the bodies funding, running and profiting from the bar/function suite, KIBBLE and the LIFE CHURCH. It's not very christian and last time i heard the bible didn't condone bare face lying to ones followers! Now we have another serious of shameful leaks to the press to try and cajol the selling consortium into accepting 10000 hours bid before the growing apathy and cancelling of DD mandates (check 10000 website, cash figure steadily dropping) renders it redundant. If 10000 hours are given the deal today, our club will suffer a painful debt-ravaged future as we have gifted money making opportunities to a couple of circling sharks, and we'll be lucky if we can catch onto Div 3 as we plummet past. Why in gods name MR. Atkinson have you refused for two years to share your business plan with the only people left backing your bid? What have you got to hide? In the past you have moaned about being personally attacked on the forum and said we shouldn't take personal swipes at people who have a different view from our own about the CIC or other takeover options. When it comes to posting about Richard Atkinson however, you seem to operate differently and continually drag up his religious beliefs as something to attack him with and the fact he is from Ayrshire and not originally a big football fan in general or St Mirren fan in particular. You also bang on about him buying or owning the club (if 10000Hours does complete the deal) with our money and question his motives. I'm prepared to take the guy at face value. I don't think he is a bare faced liar as you claim he is. I don't see anything sinister in Life Church using the facilities at St Mirren Park and it doesn't seem like a church using a suite at the ground is a huge leap from a couple deciding to have a wedding ceremony there or a post-funeral function there. He hasn't come in claiming St Mirren were his boyhood heroes but has said that since he got involved in the bid and on the board that he has got caught up in supporting the team and now considers himself a fan. He has also said that as far as the money side goes, he has already invested his own cash in the legal set up side of things with the CIC and was looking at putting in some of his own cash for the bid and / or taking out one of teh 1877 memberships and that he and anyone else on the boards of the CIC set up would not be taking any money out of the club. I don't think the guy is perfect or 10000Hours bid is perfect but I think both of them are honest and well-intentioned and Richard Atkinson has always seemed honest enough to say to public meetings hat he is sorry about x, y or z and could of done those better (if only he had followed Somner9's advice to the letter). Like other fans I think Atkinson's community angle is a decent way to grow the fan base by building links with community groups and getting them to use the stadium 7 days a week rather than once a fortnight can build a decent amount of goodwill for the club and in the long term bring more fans through the gates. But the bottom line will always be that crowds are most likely to increase when the team are playing well and getting results. Given Atkinson has now declared himself a St Mirren fan is there any chance you can tone down some of the bigoted personal attacks constantly being hurled in his direction? For better or for worse he has taken a different view from yourself about communication with the 10000Hours backers, when there is something new to say or a news update he passes it on pretty quickly (there have been 3 or 4 updates in the last month on the progress of the bid) and when there is no news he keeps quiet. I am probably not alone in preferring that level of communication and openness to someone posting day after day and week after week and month after month about whether any share of any potential profits from a bar in the void would make its way to the playing budget any time soon. Given the money SPL players are on there would have to be a helluva lot of profit from a matchday bar in the void to fund 1 players salary a year don't you think? PS in the past you said you also took legal advice with a view to suing a fellow forum member for slander. Do you have any hard evidence that Richard Atkinson or the non-existent 10000Hours online marketing team are personally behind scaremongering and deliberately inaccurate leaks to the press? Edited September 7, 2012 by Dibbles old paperboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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