10000Hours Bid Is Rejected

[Guest somner9]

Don't think SG and co were ever going to play ball after that !

a great example of 10000 hours naievity. It didn't work for the board, investors or the fans!

[David Mc]

McD fan ownership or part ownership is the way forward on many fronts. the problem with 10000 hours is they came to the fans LAST, would not reveal a business plan to the fans, insisted they had backers, funders, soft loans good to go, then when the time came they had nothing!

They rolled back in with GLS's shares on offer, and only the Fans as backers, still refusing to reveal a business plan to their only backers, the fans.

Now the BoD can set this up, with a prudent approach that is both viable and sustainable. they won't get £1.25m but they can set out a legacy that will see the club flourish in its community for many years to come. IF they approach the fans first!

Which begs the question why can't the fans get together and make a move to explore the possibilities for fan ownership? To date we have proved only to be excellent at falling out with each other and filling out DDs..

[Drew]

Don't think SG and co were ever going to play ball after that !

Which might suggest that this is more about personalities and egos than some philanthropic sense of what is good for the club?

Personally, I think it is more about money that anything else. Call me cynical, but just saying and all that....

[pozbaird]

I cannot remember St Mirren supporters (as a support en masse) offer anything but support for the long tenure of SG and the incumbent BOD. No 'sack the board' or 'Gilmour out' cries. A large section of our support have also backed the 10000hours bid in both monetary pledges and in many cases, including my own, by getting involved and putting in our skills, time, and effort. Those behind the 10000hours bid put in immense amounts of effort, and stuck with it for a lengthy period.

Whatever happens now - the St Mirren support stepped up to the plate - both in backing the incumbent BOD, and in giving the CIC bid a fair hearing over a long time.

Don't let us down. Or those kids currently sitting in the South stand who will be collecting 1,000 away shirts and are our next generation of fans.

Edited September 10, 2012 by pozbaird

[Drew]

It means they want more money.

Beat me to it.

[shull]

I can only assume and hope that the Dundee United fan or any other non Saints fan, will never be in charge of my beloved Club.

Edited September 10, 2012 by shull

[pozbaird]

It means they want more money.

and/or simply will not sell to GLS. Knocked him back before mind. No inside info - just speculating.

[Guest somner9]

Which begs the question why can't the fans get together and make a move to explore the possibilities for fan ownership? To date we have proved only to be excellent at falling out with each other and filling out DDs..

They could! but the BoD need to get that ball rolling, bring in Smisa as a vehicle for the fans to get onboard with, come to a sensible/sustainable financing proposal that the fans/community/business could hang its hat on.

Over 1000 buddies signed up for 10000 hours even though many like me had seriosu misgivings. imagine what numbers/amount a proposal put forward by the BoD and worked out by an enlarged Smisa could attract?

[div]

I'm personally disappointed as I know how much effort has gone into this bid but I'm also relieved as at least we now know where we stand.

Hopefully we will see someone else put together a fans backed bid for the club.

Over 1,000 fans backed the 10000Hours bid with their own money, so the appetite is clearly there.

Maybe time for SMiSA to pull together a bid ?

On the upside I've saved myself £3K so every cloud and all that !

[pozbaird]

I'm personally disappointed as I know how much effort has gone into this bid but I'm also relieved as at least we now know where we stand.

Hopefully we will see someone else put together a fans backed bid for the club.

Over 1,000 fans backed the 10000Hours bid with their own money, so the appetite is clearly there.

Maybe time for SMiSA to pull together a bid ?

On the upside I've saved myself £3K so every cloud and all that !

Vanzy is sure to bang in 25 plus now... don't spend it all at once.

[Guest somner9]

I'm personally disappointed as I know how much effort has gone into this bid but I'm also relieved as at least we now know where we stand.

Hopefully we will see someone else put together a fans backed bid for the club.

Over 1,000 fans backed the 10000Hours bid with their own money, so the appetite is clearly there.

Maybe time for SMiSA to pull together a bid ?

On the upside I've saved myself £3K so every cloud and all that !

The BoD were quick to bang on about how they favoured fan ownership! time for them now to stand up and make it happen. time for them to set out their legacy!

[Stuart Dickson]

Which might suggest that this is more about personalities and egos than some philanthropic sense of what is good for the club?

Personally, I think it is more about money that anything else. Call me cynical, but just saying and all that....

I agree Drew. Why else would they reject a bid from a movement that is financially backed by around 33% of its customer base? We can all agree that REA and 10000hours have had their failings but at the essence of this bid was a commitment shown by a large proportion of fans towards the 10000hours model of member ownership. Now the selling consortium are telling 33% of it's customer base that they were all wrong and that only those in the selling consortium know what is best for the club.

This is without doubt about money. £1.25m is a lot less than the £2m they were hoping for. Just think all those dreams of month long trips to Vegas suddenly being reduced to month long trips to Scarborough and the puggy machines along the coast.

[ds10]

Can't agree with that last bit bud. It was 10000 hours bid that got the heave-ho, not the concept of fan ownership. And i think it is important to highlight that. as I said the ball is in the selling consoortium and BoD's court!

If they want to they can prepare the ground for fan ownership to take the reins from them. Without a crazy debt attached to it.

I think there was a real opportunity here for fan ownership, which has now been missed.

While the backing from the fans has been great, it obviously wasn't enough to succeed.

I think the concept behind 10000hours was a good one. What was really needed was for the fans collectively to grasp the idea and run with it.

Although there was some support, there were too many doubters and sceptics.

For me definitely a missed opportunity.

[pozbaird]

I find myself agreeing with the last posts by Sir Dicky of Dickson, and Somner9 - and that isn't something that has happened much over the last three years. Let's see the selling consortium come out and tick suggestions A, B, C, D..... and give us some answers.

A. They believed in the bid, but after 3 years have lost confidence in REA to make it work.

B. They never believed in it, but thought they were on for the full 2 million.

C. They just don't want GLS anywhere near the place.

D. They now have a better and more attractive offer about to go ahead.

E. They still believe in the CIC bid, but simply won't accept the offer being made, after a decade or more of service.

One of these must be somewhere near the truth, no?

Answers on a postcard to 'Why can't Div win EuroMillions and solve this pish in an instant' competition....

Edit to add:

As one of over 1,000 individual St Mirren supporters who backed the CIC bid and was prepared to put my own money into it - I feel that every single one of us at least deserves a full and frank explanation as to why the final offer was rejected. I'm prepared to listen to the incumbent BOD give us a bullshit-free explanation, and the same from the 10000hours side.

Edited September 10, 2012 by pozbaird

[Sunny Saint]

I think there was a real opportunity here for fan ownership, which has now been missed.

While the backing from the fans has been great, it obviously wasn't enough to succeed.

I think the concept behind 10000hours was a good one. What was really needed was for the fans collectively to grasp the idea and run with it.

Although there was some support, there were too many doubters and sceptics.

For me definitely a missed opportunity.

So, everyone was supposed to just go "ahh, what the hell!" and back it with their own money just for the sake of getting fans' ownership?

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18464359

A target of 750 pledges of £10 per month was surpassed but two other categories requiring significantly higher levels of funding had been lagging behind.

The other funding options were a one-off payment of £3,000 for what amounts to a lifetime membership and a fee of £25,000 to buy up a chunk of shares in the club.

"The response from the rank and file fans has been phenomenal," said Atkinson on Tuesday. "It has been well in excess of what we hoped for and it's still growing.

"Individual membership is sitting at about 140% of what we budgeted for.

"There are other interested parties at the moment.

"If we don't buy it, someone else will. That's what the chairman has said."

More than 1,000 every-day punters were willing to put their money into this - that was more than 10000 Hours had even asked for. The fans' support fell short in the areas where thousands of pounds' worth of investment was required. We are in the hardest financial times any of us have ever known and football is costly enough, so can you really blame people for not stumping up £3,000 or £25,000 for a scheme which did require a certain amount of blind faith and plenty of uncertainty?

It's bizarre that you appear to be blaming the supporters for this bid failing. A quarter of our average home support were willing to pay over and above what they already pay to St Mirren to be a part of this; factor in those who will always be sceptical, the amount of people who probably didn't take an interest, children, those who can't afford it, etc. - plus the fact that the whole CIC concept was lost on many, including myself - and that's pretty good going.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Sunny Saint

[reborn saint]

Ah well I'm wrang again!....Just booking my second flight to Amsterdam for my next pair of shinny new cloggs..lol

In truth I'm not shocked the deal failed but the lead up to the final bid was strange

(1) Bid submitted

(2) 10000hrs asked to make changes to 2 aspects

(3) REA said changes made

(4) bid rejected

Now the PDE has these changes as more up front money and a personal guarantee which REA seems to be suggesting were done In the article. I can only assume either 1 or both conditions were not met in full and he maybe pushed the up front money a bit but not enough or/and his personal guarantee Is not as strong as the board would like.

[10000hours]

We are going to sleep on putting a full statement out tonight but will say this for just now.

We made the very best offer we thought was both Sustainable and deliverable of £1.25m.

We based the value and the structure of the bid based on the Commitments and Finance that we had.

It is obviously extremely disappointing to have had our bid rejected especially having gone through the whole process of raising the fabulous level of support from the Fans for a second time having missed out by such a narrow margin the first time around.

Thanks again to all those (both those for it and against it) that engaged in the process and the debate.

[St. Sid]

With 10000 hrs now out of the way the fans should look to SMiSA as the vehicle for fan ownership. If we all start donating £10-a-month to SMiSA within three years they will be sitting on around £410,000 (including their existing £50K). 10000 hrs f"k'd up by not starting to collect the donations as soon as it was launched. They wound up short of capital.

Switch your direct debits to SMiSA and fans will be in a great position to at a minimum negotiate influence on the new owners should that come to pass. If not then we at least have significant funds available to invest in ventures like a supporters bar.

10000 hrs legacy should be momentum towards fan involvement in the club. The correct next move for fans is to join SMiSA.

[div]

With 10000 hrs now out of the way the fans should look to SMiSA as the vehicle for fan ownership. If we all start donating £10-a-month to SMiSA within three years they will be sitting on around £410,000 (including their existing £50K). 10000 hrs f"k'd up by not starting to collect the donations as soon as it was launched. They wound up short of capital.

Switch your direct debits to SMiSA and fans will be in a great position to at a minimum negotiate influence on the new owners should that come to pass. If not then we at least have significant funds available to invest in ventures like a supporters bar.

10000 hrs legacy should be momentum towards fan involvement in the club. The correct next move for fans is to join SMiSA.

The selling consortium were offered an initial payment of £400k within 3 WEEKS within the 10000Hours bid completing.

I doubt they will be too happy to wait 3 years for the same from SMiSA.

If they present a bid plan then I am all ears and would certainly join if I thought it could deliver fan ownership of the football club but I can't see how SMiSA could generate the up front capital needed to finance it IMO.

If a private consortium buy the club then SMiSA also need to go on a campaign to increase their membership and get real funding in place "just in case" the owners turn out to be more Craig Whyte than Sheikh Mansoor.

[TsuMirren]

It's too big for SMISA, plus they'd need to change their constitution...or is their almost similar to 10000 Hours one fine? We don't have three years, the consortium want out now. You're just not going to get the up front cash in time, MYFC didn't even get it with 29,000 paying £35 up front!

Do we even know the up front figure or what guarantees SG etc need?

At least this means FM13 might still see the occasional tycoon takeover.

[Big Fras]

More bitchiness on here than on an episode of Sex & The Citeh.

Not remotely surprised at today's outcome. Increasingly exasperated BoD eventually lost faith themselves when a viable alternative appeared ? Who knows, but what's done is done.

BoD statement merely seemed to confirm their questioning of the financing, which is their right, and we don't know what else has been put in front of them by any other bidder. The "right people" statement could be interpreted any number of ways.

BTW I was one of the 1,000+ who signed up. I also signed off. I'm not really in any hurry to demand a "bullshit-free" explanation from either party. None of my loot ever changed I hands, so I am owed nothing.

A SMiSA (?) led supporters membership scheme guaranteeing funds going straight to the club, say at £10k/month for youth development, in return for a voice on the board and a % of shares ? That would be fine by me. The fans own part of the club and are seeing their hard-earned go into the grassroots of SMFC, which is ultimately the future of the club.

Time to move on. Much, much worse things happen in life. I've seen someone close to me die before my eyes, way short of their time. As Derek Smalls would've put it " Too much f*cking perspective".

[St. Sid]

Comparing 10000 hrs to SMiSA is comparing apples to pears.

SMiSA is genuinely run by fans.

Zero debt is involved in SMiSA.

SMiSA don't cliam to be taking control of the club just looking for fans to have a say in the club by investing money directly into it.

We saw a lot of effort from the 10000 hrs online marketing team to promote their high risk strategy. Why the instant negativity and lack of willingness to even consider what might be achieved via a strongly supported SMiSA?

[div]

We saw a lot of effort from the 10000 hrs online marketing team to promote their high risk strategy. Why the instant negativity and lack of willingness to even consider what might be achieved via a strongly supported SMiSA?

I'd love to see SMiSA table a biid but I simply don't know how they going to raise £1.5m in finance John ?

Is that negative ?

[Bud the Baker]

Was always agin the 10000hours bid but even I was impressed with the depth of commitment shown during those few days in June - it's a real shame that a way couldn't be found to give the club to the fans.

[pozbaird]

BTW I was one of the 1,000+ who signed up. I also signed off. I'm not really in any hurry to demand a "bullshit-free" explanation from either party. None of my loot ever changed I hands, so I am owed nothing.

Agree with you that in the grand scheme of things there are more important things to concern ourselves with - but if we're simply talking about the bid in isolation, a bullshit free explanation to supporters is very much required.

From the incumbent BOD - at public meetings, SG told us he believed in the CIC bid. Many fans travelled to attend these meetings to hear what was said, because we all care for St Mirren. We also travelled to hear a message of impending doom and armageddon from our BOD. Every season under SGs reign, as supporters, we backed his yearly appeal to renew our STs and back the team.

From 10000hours side, supporters in large numbers agreed to back the bid, and stuck with it. Ordinary supporters stepped up to the plate.

I don't think a bullshit free explanation as to why a three-year long process that deeply involved St Mirren supporters has failed is too much to ask.