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2012 Financial Report


Bud the Baker
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Just got mine thru the door. Main news seems to be the start of two major capital expansions

  • Covering the 5-a-side pitches behind the North Stand
  • Fitting out The Void area. cool.png

so it looks as if the BoD are resigned to being in it for the long haul!

The club made a loss of £290k but since this includes depeciation of the ground to the value of £312k we made a small profit, I think! wacko.png It's over 30 years since I passed my Accounting O Grade.

Turnover & wages pretty much the same as the year before

2011 Turnover £3.13M, Wages £2.018M

2012 Turnover £3.26M, Wages £2.081M

Main resolution at the AGM is whether the results should be sent out by paper or electronically - I'm torn between reducing my carbon footprint and receiving the Report on the doormat which I allus think of as an early Christmas present.

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offtopic.gif Watching Dreamkeeper a film about present day strife on a Lacotah Reservation - Hoka Hey.

My heroes have always killed cowboys! death.gif

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I can't understand why covering the five a side pitches has become a priority. Maybe someone can help me out on that one? Surely there can't be many days in the year where the pitches can't be hired out due to inclement weather so the only way to recoup the investment would be to charge more money to play there. We've got covered venues in Lanarkshire but given the choice of paying £230 to play a kids eleven-a-side match indoor or using the outdoor 3g pitch and paying £82.50 it becomes a bit of a no brainer for juvenile clubs in my local area.

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Guest somner9

Covered pitches = a big money spinner when everybody and his wife is trying to get into Toryglen when the weather is pish. BoD now maximising the clubs assets, including fitting out and running a bar/events venue themselves. Wonder who came up with a feckin good idea like that???

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Covered pitches = a big money spinner when everybody and his wife is trying to get into Toryglen when the weather is pish. BoD now maximising the clubs assets, including fitting out and running a bar/events venue themselves. Wonder who came up with a feckin good idea like that???

I believe the club had the idea, but took their eye off the ball thinking 10000 Hours (sorry to bring it up) would come in and pick it up. That's understandable as why would you remove one of the major selling vehicles of the group you hope will meet your price. Covering the pitches is a good idea for a number of reasons, coupled with the fitting out it could be very good and through the year I'm sure all manner of events could be held.

To answer SD, it's not just about the day to day charging but also about the long game. I'm sure the majority of us can recall a time where we walked past the pitches in the pissing rain and felt sorry for the hardy members of the Panda club who were getting absolutely drenched.

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Covered pitches = a big money spinner when everybody and his wife is trying to get into Toryglen when the weather is pish. BoD now maximising the clubs assets, including fitting out and running a bar/events venue themselves. Wonder who came up with a feckin good idea like that???

I know Toryglen well and I also know the other full sized Scottish Indoor pitch well at Ravenscraig - it's our home venue. Two years ago when we had the deep freeze where pitches everywhere were snowbound for large parts of November and December the indoor pitches became incredibly popular however last winter you could book the indoor pitch at Ravenscraig most days of the week if you were willing to pay £230 to play your kids match.

As I've said those those pitches are full sized. At Hamilton Palace there is an indoor 3g seven-a-side pitch that struggles with bookings - so much so that they had to bring in a local rugby club to help fill vacant slots both midweek and at weekends. Indeed if you want a venue for a childs birthday try Hamilton Palace for a Sunday afternoon - cause no-one else will be using it.

At St Mirren Park you are talking about three tiny football pitches. I'm not sure who they think will pay the premium prices to play indoor - or how many days per annum they think teams will need to move there since 3g pitches anywhere are playable down to -6'C. If there is a market there and St Mirren are sure that covering the pitches is a viable business proposition then fair play to them, but I would have thought a far better option would be to simply reconfigure the three pitches into two larger seven-a-side pitches and to approach local juvenile clubs who would be interested in taking serial lets for their younger teams.

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To answer SD, it's not just about the day to day charging but also about the long game. I'm sure the majority of us can recall a time where we walked past the pitches in the pissing rain and felt sorry for the hardy members of the Panda club who were getting absolutely drenched.

Hmmm, so its not an investment - more a comfort item for kids who use it 19 times a year?

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Hmmm, so its not an investment - more a comfort item for kids who use it 19 times a year?

You know Stuart, I do try and get past the whole SD's a muppet blah blah and let's all mock him constantly. You don't make it easy at times though. I said it's not just about. I didn't say it's only about keeping the kids dry pre-match. There will be all manner of potential avenue streams or aspects of development, some of those will take weeks to be realised, others months and some years. That's just how football works, well unless somebody with stupid money comes on the scene.

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You know Stuart, I do try and get past the whole SD's a muppet blah blah and let's all mock him constantly. You don't make it easy at times though. I said it's not just about. I didn't say it's only about keeping the kids dry pre-match. There will be all manner of potential avenue streams or aspects of development, some of those will take weeks to be realised, others months and some years. That's just how football works, well unless somebody with stupid money comes on the scene.

But where are the potential avenue streams Kenny? Maybe I am thick and can't see it but what new money can putting a roof over three tiny pitches bring in?

Look as I've said there are a number of indoor 3g facilities in Lanarkshire. Before wasting money on this project St Mirren would do well to get in touch with those facility managers and with the people they are hoping to attract along to use this facility. In Lanarkshire the indoor 3g facilities that cover a similar sized footprint are at Hamilton Palace run by SLC and at Dalziel Country Park run by the War Memorial Trust at Dalziel High School. Both of those facilities accommodate the pitch undivided and market it as a sports hall which is lined for seven a side football. Both get used, but they are nowhere near as popular as St Mirren obviously think.

Going back to what I know - Wishaw Wycombe Wanderers spend just under £50,000 per annum right now on training and match venues on serial lets. I book venues for my sons team - the 98's. We have two training sessions per week. One is in a local school hall where we do fitness work, and the second is on the outdoor 3g pitch at Wishaw Sports Centre where we practice ball work, set pieces, defensive drills etc. We do this on one third of the full sized pitch where we have access to the full size goal. Lets for the school hall cost £20 per week and for the third of the 3g pitch we pay £28.50 for two hours. Now over the six years or so that I've been involved I can only remember two evenings where our outdoor training was cancelled. One was because the pitch was snow bound, the other was because the sports centre had been closed by the HSE over bacteria that was found in the swimming pool. Two years ago we did face pressure to catch up with matches during the months of December and January when many games were being postponed and we did utalise the full size indoor pitch at Ravenscraig on two occassions paying the full price for a midweek venue but that was more because we were struggling to find floodlit venues to play midweek matches - as other teams used their serial lets for training sessions. Beyond that we managed to get by using the outdoor 3g pitches at Ravenscraig, the Keir Hardie Sports Centre and at Wishaw - all of which were playable even during the worst weather.

If the opportunity was offered to me to move our training sessions to a tiny indoor five a side pitch with no access to full size goals and no space to do our usual drills - do you think I would have booked it?

As far as I can see the biggest problem with the 3 pitches at Greenhill Road is their size. Reconfigure the pitches and use some more land space to create 2 x 7-a-side pitches and work with local juvenile clubs to get those pitches rented out on serial lets and you'll have regular income streams and a captive audience in parents who may be interested in using the void for teas and coffees while they wait in warmth. Putting a roof over the same tiny pitches and I honestly can't see the club boosting the income from the activities around those pitches at all.

Edited by Stuart Dickson
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But where are the potential avenue streams Kenny? Maybe I am thick and can't see it but what new money can putting a roof over three tiny pitches bring in?

Look as I've said there are a number of indoor 3g facilities in Lanarkshire. Before wasting money on this project St Mirren would do well to get in touch with those facility managers and with the people they are hoping to attract along to use this facility. In Lanarkshire the indoor 3g facilities that cover a similar sized footprint are at Hamilton Palace run by SLC and at Dalziel Country Park run by the War Memorial Trust at Dalziel High School. Both of those facilities accommodate the pitch undivided and market it as a sports hall which is lined for seven a side football. Both get used, but they are nowhere near as popular as St Mirren obviously think.

Going back to what I know - Wishaw Wycombe Wanderers spend just under £50,000 per annum right now on training and match venues on serial lets. I book venues for my sons team - the 98's. We have two training sessions per week. One is in a local school hall where we do fitness work, and the second is on the outdoor 3g pitch at Wishaw Sports Centre where we practice ball work, set pieces, defensive drills etc. We do this on one third of the full sized pitch where we have access to the full size goal. Lets for the school hall cost £20 per week and for the third of the 3g pitch we pay £28.50 for two hours. Now over the six years or so that I've been involved I can only remember two evenings where our outdoor training was cancelled. One was because the pitch was snow bound, the other was because the sports centre had been closed by the HSE over bacteria that was found in the swimming pool. Two years ago we did face pressure to catch up with matches during the months of December and January when many games were being postponed and we did utalise the full size indoor pitch at Ravenscraig on two occassions paying the full price for a midweek venue but that was more because we were struggling to find floodlit venues to play midweek matches - as other teams used their serial lets for training sessions. Beyond that we managed to get by using the outdoor 3g pitches at Ravenscraig, the Keir Hardie Sports Centre and at Wishaw - all of which were playable even during the worst weather.

If the opportunity was offered to me to move our training sessions to a tiny indoor five a side pitch with no access to full size goals and no space to do our usual drills - do you think I would have booked it?

As far as I can see the biggest problem with the 3 pitches at Greenhill Road is their size. Reconfigure the pitches and use some more land space to create 2 x 7-a-side pitches and work with local juvenile clubs to get those pitches rented out on serial lets and you'll have regular income streams and a captive audience in parents who may be interested in using the void for teas and coffees while they wait in warmth. Putting a roof over the same tiny pitches and I honestly can't see the club boosting the income from the activities around those pitches at all.

Sometimes the more you write the less you say!

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Guest somner9

Hmmm, so its not an investment - more a comfort item for kids who use it 19 times a year?

Aaaah so the club shouldn't get involved with youth football in the community to ensure the youngsters stay connected? make your f**king mind up!

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Have to agree with SD on one point.The pitches look really small.Surely 10 adults would struggle to get a good game on them?

I've played a few times on the pitches and they were fine for a 'normal' game of fives with ten adults. I agree they look small from the outside looking in, but once on them, none of us had any complaints about the size. The age group playing ranged from guys in their 20s to auld farts like me, so it was a fair representation of adult fivesters. My complaints were that the pitches were full of litter and bottles (plastic fortunately), the goal nets were a disgrace, and one time we booked it, no-one was there to open up the changing rooms.... apart from that, ahem amateurism... no complaints.

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You know Stuart, I do try and get past the whole SD's a muppet blah blah and let's all mock him constantly. You don't make it easy at times though. I said it's not just about. I didn't say it's only about keeping the kids dry pre-match. There will be all manner of potential avenue streams or aspects of development, some of those will take weeks to be realised, others months and some years. That's just how football works, well unless somebody with stupid money comes on the scene.

He can't help it you know. It's a Tory thing. If it doesn't make big profits, bin it. The same as he would the NHS.

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Just got mine thru the door. Main news seems to be the start of two major capital expansions

  • Covering the 5-a-side pitches behind the North Stand
  • Fitting out The Void area. cool.png

so it looks as if the BoD are resigned to being in it for the long haul!

The club made a loss of £290k but since this includes depeciation of the ground to the value of £312k we made a small profit, I think! wacko.png It's over 30 years since I passed my Accounting O Grade.

Turnover & wages pretty much the same as the year before

2011 Turnover £3.13M, Wages £2.018M

2012 Turnover £3.26M, Wages £2.081M

Main resolution at the AGM is whether the results should be sent out by paper or electronically - I'm torn between reducing my carbon footprint and receiving the Report on the doormat which I allus think of as an early Christmas present.

************************************************

offtopic.gif Watching Dreamkeeper a film about present day strife on a Lacotah Reservation - Hoka Hey.

My heroes have always killed cowboys! death.gif

Looking at the figures, not being a Mathematical genius, does that mean we have increased revenue this year without Rangers?? Inspite of our chairman telling us at the start of the season that there was a very real chance we would go into administration??

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Just got mine thru the door. Main news seems to be the start of two major capital expansions

  • Covering the 5-a-side pitches behind the North Stand
  • Fitting out The Void area. cool.png

so it looks as if the BoD are resigned to being in it for the long haul!

The club made a loss of £290k but since this includes depeciation of the ground to the value of £312k we made a small profit, I think! wacko.png It's over 30 years since I passed my Accounting O Grade.

Turnover & wages pretty much the same as the year before

2011 Turnover £3.13M, Wages £2.018M

2012 Turnover £3.26M, Wages £2.081M

Main resolution at the AGM is whether the results should be sent out by paper or electronically - I'm torn between reducing my carbon footprint and receiving the Report on the doormat which I always think of as an early Christmas present.

************************************************

offtopic.gif Watching Dreamkeeper a film about present day strife on a Lacotah Reservation - Hoka Hey.

My heroes have always killed cowboys! death.gif

Give St. Mirren the email address of your wife/partner/kid and she/he/it can print it off and place it in an envelope behind the front door.

This would save St. Mirren the cost of postage.

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Looking at the figures, not being a Mathematical genius, does that mean we have increased revenue this year without Rangers?? Inspite of our chairman telling us at the start of the season that there was a very real chance we would go into administration??

The answer to the only question in your post, despite four question marks, is no.

The figures are to the year end 31st May 2012.

It's next year's report to the year end 31st May 2013 that will give you figures without the Rongers.

It will be interesting next year to see how much difference our League Cup run makes to the figures.

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From what I've heard the 1st team will use the combined pitches during bad weather when Ralston is not deemed suitable. The plan is to have a system is in place that can make one large pitch, which although not full size, will help with training as opposed to trying to book Toryglen.

Despite the downsides, there are many positives that can be derived by the club. Time will tell whether local teams will see fit to book the facility on a regular basis. That comes down to cost and whether they see the benefits.

We play every week on the 5's pitches, there are various problems over the last year with no one there to open up on numerous occasions, the showers with no hot water. They are fine to play 5's but that is the max. I prefer the surface to PowerLeague but PowerLeague is nearly £20 an hour more expensive but the pitches there are a lot bigger. One problem is that the first pitch is now dangerous as there is a missing patch of astroturf in the centre.

If they are roofing it it and changing the layout then they will have to seriously work on the marketing to actually make it work because it is very much underused at the moment and is costing the club a fortune in lost income

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By covering these pitches it will help towards achieving 'SFA Elite Club' status for Youth Development as well as increasing revenue streams. I'd assume the BoD have performed financial due diligence and believe it is a risk worth taking. I wonder if they considered putting in a running track?

From what I've heard the 1st team will use the combined pitches during bad weather when Ralston is not deemed suitable. The plan is to have a system is in place that can make one large pitch, which although not full size, will help with training as opposed to trying to book Toryglen.

Despite the downsides, there are many positives that can be derived by the club. Time will tell whether local teams will see fit to book the facility on a regular basis. That comes down to cost and whether they see the benefits.

Ok, thanks Slash. That makes a bit more sense - even if it does say far more about the poor quality of work that Mark Wotte is doing at the SFA. It's eye wateringly mental that having what equates to a tiny sports barn with a 3g carpet takes you a step along the road to "Elite Club Status" but having seen the direction Braidhurst High School has been taken in recent years "eye wateringly mental" is exactly what I would equate with that area of the SFA right now. :rolleyes:

I still can't see the business case for it though. Is there additional grants available for elite club status that could justify the cost of the project? I certainly can't see a case being made for it in terms of increased usage or in the fact that it replaces the odd occasion where St Mirren have to go looking for an alternative training venue because the weather conditions at Ralston see daytime temperatures at sub -6°C.

The reconfiguration of the pitches is interesting. It's exactly what I've been saying since the stadium plans were first revealed and the size of these 5-a-side pitches became apparent. Much larger pitches are needed and the club should have and still should go down the path of creating 2 x 7-a-side pitches and if there is money available for improvement works I would still suggest that it would make far more sense to invest in creating the two pitches than it would putting a roof over the current facility. If the current facility is as underused as others have said then the club really should be moving down the route of offering local juvenile clubs the kind of facilities they would want to use on a week day night granting them serial lets for the full season.

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He can't help it you know. It's a Tory thing. If it doesn't make big profits, bin it. The same as he would the NHS.

You are probably right RIck. After all only a Socialist would think that St Mirren funding what is essentially a loss making vanity project is a good idea, especially at a time when the Chairman has been predicting financial Armageddon and when the club are making redundancies. :rolleyes:

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