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Buddie Arrested For Free Speech!

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Who decides this? Who decides where you can and can't make political statements?

The plight of the entire middle east is a serious issue.

A pensioner yelling shit at a footballer who comes from one of those countries is embarassing and diminishes the struggle of those people.

If you want to help the Palestinian cause then why not do it through one of the many legitimate channels already in place for that purpose?

This whole case smacks of someone either trying to be a smart arse or someone who wants to be seen to be doing something. In other words caring more about doing it for their own sense of being important than doing it for the cause itself.

That is exactly the same thing as those annoying charity muggers who harass you in the street claiming to be doing work for the charity when in actual fact they just want to feel good themselves by getting their boxes filled. This sort of selfish pish puts people off the causes themselves.

Maybe he should contact a Palestinian organisation, tell them what he's done and ask them how he has moved the cause on in any way or shape? Maybe he'll get a medal and some praise. Maybe that's what he's after.

Sounds like attention seeking twattery to me and I should know.

Edited by oaksoft

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Well, the Procurator Fiscal decided not to prosecute me for the 'crime' I was charged with. Permit me to describe the events...

On the 31st of March this year Celtic came to Paisley and as the players walked through the plastic tunnel I said, 'free Palestine' hoping the Israeli player Beram Kayal would hear it.

This comment was not 'banter' nor said with malice it was a political statement to indicate that there were people in this country who objected the inhumane treatment by the Israeli government to the people living under military occupation in the Palestinian territories an example is the Palestinian football player, Mahmoud Sarsak whom I met when he was over here.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/i-had-to-appear-that-i-was-happy-to-be-released-but-my-heart-was-aching-for-my-friends-still-in-jail.21338365

Shortly afterwords, two police officers shuffled along my row and asked me to accompany them into the main stand. They said that they had received a complaint from Beram Kayal and if I repeated my comment of, 'free Palestine' I would be arrested and charged under section 1 of the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012. I said arrest me now because I couldn't accept being subject to, as I saw it, a political gag.

I returned to my seat and after a few minutes I stood up and cried, 'free Palestine!'. The police returned, led me again to the main stand, charged and hand-cuffed me then transported me to a cell in Mill St. despite my protestations of me being a season ticket holder and claiming diplomatic immunity!

However, I was angry at my arrest. A 65 year old with no criminal record and considering Neil Lennon's behaviour was such that he was summoned to appear before the SFA for, in their words, 'repeated use of offensive, insulting and abusive language'. Didn't the police hear him?

I considered my comment political and not abusive and (I have reason to believe Kayal did not make the complaint) was not prepared for the police or Celtic football club to limit or define my right to free speech.

Finally, thanks to all of you who supported me on these pages.

We have differing views on the subject but I am very pleased to hear you were not prosecuted for you believe in. 65 ? I thought you were a young student :)

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The plight of the entire middle east is a serious issue.

A pensioner yelling shit at a footballer who comes from one of those countries is embarassing and diminishes the struggle of those people.

If you want to help the Palestinian cause then why not do it through one of the many legitimate channels already in place for that purpose?

This whole case smacks of someone either trying to be a smart arse or someone who wants to be seen to be doing something. In other words caring more about doing it for their own sense of being important than doing it for the cause itself.

That is exactly the same thing as those annoying charity muggers who harass you in the street claiming to be doing work for the charity when in actual fact they just want to feel good themselves by getting their boxes filled. This sort of selfish pish puts people off the causes themselves.

Maybe he should contact a Palestinian organisation, tell them what he's done and ask them how he has moved the cause on in any way or shape? Maybe he'll get a medal and some praise. Maybe that's what he's after.

Sounds like attention seeking twattery to me and I should know.

I totally agree with your point about what was shouted being an bit embarrassing. Totally agree with the smart arse thing. The thing that riles me about this situation is the fact the gentleman was removed from the stadium and arrested. Why? The law that he was deemed to have broken is an ass. The way it is being interpreted by some coppers is pathetic. The question I ask is why should you not be free to make a political statement in a football ground?

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Don't really get what you mean here.

You asked who decides wether a football ground is a suitable place for a polical demonstration and I answered that everyone else in the ground decided that when they bought a ticket for a football game not a political debate/rally.

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You asked who decides wether a football ground is a suitable place for a polical demonstration and I answered that everyone else in the ground decided that when they bought a ticket for a football game not a political debate/rally.

So your saying the crowd at a football match collectively decides the things that can and cant be spoken about at the game? How does this work then?

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I totally agree with your point about what was shouted being an bit embarrassing. Totally agree with the smart arse thing. The thing that riles me about this situation is the fact the gentleman was removed from the stadium and arrested. Why? The law that he was deemed to have broken is an ass. The way it is being interpreted by some coppers is pathetic. The question I ask is why should you not be free to make a political statement in a football ground?

Cos he was shouting something at a player which was based on his nationality and when asked to stop he behaved like a 16 year old twat and carried on. Removing him from the ground was reasonable. Maybe sending him to court wasn't but kicking him out was the right thing to do IMO.

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So your saying the crowd at a football match collectively decides the things that can and cant be spoken about at the game? How does this work then?

Im saying if you went round and asked everyone if they wanted to watch the game or listen to someone shout about Palestine then it would pretty unanimous. If it was only being 'spoken about' then that would be fine but it was shouted at a player.. twice.

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Braidmaster,

I should have maybe added "in my opinion" to my previous post.

I go to football to support my team and switch off from real life for a couple of hours,not to be subjected to peoples political feelings.

You say people should be allowed to vent their political thoughts.Does this include peoples support for the IRA/UDA etc?

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So your saying the crowd at a football match collectively decides the things that can and cant be spoken about at the game? How does this work then?

OK take a step back here and let me ask you to take this to its logical conclusion.

At what point would you as a paying customer get pissed off about a political act at a football ground?

What if he'd decided to wave a Palestinian flag?

What about if he'd decided to invade the pitch?

What if 300 fans made a concerted effort to demonstrate by attacking Kayal by disrupting the game?

The problem with politics is that it has the capacity to escalate to a point where it disrupts everything and everyone and suddenly one man's "crusade" becomes everyone else's disruption.

We don't need politics at football matches. We pay to see football and deserve the right to do that peacefully without anyone trying to hijack the agenda for their own attention seeking twattery.

What we appear to be disagreeing about here is how far the protests should go before someone steps in.

All I'm saying is that if someone is a zealot there's no controlling them and so it's best to disconnect sport and politics completely.

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Have just saw this thread and while you will understand as I work in this area I cannot make comment on individual arrests I would like to clear up a couple of things.

Whilst probably agreeing it is not the worst crime ever it does break the current laws and that are the only ones that can be policed however it is understandbly frustrating when other fans seem to be getting off with things but the officers concerned can only police the area of the park they are in.

As for ejecting him from the parkbeing the more sensible option? Probably.

However can I add when we are given our remit from our bosses it is that only the stewards can eject fans from the game,if we are taking anyone out they will be under arrest.

As I say am not debating the rights and wrongs just hopefully clearing up a couple technical points.

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Braidmaster,

I should have maybe added "in my opinion" to my previous post.

I go to football to support my team and switch off from real life for a couple of hours,not to be subjected to peoples political feelings.

You say people should be allowed to vent their political thoughts.Does this include peoples support for the IRA/UDA etc?

In answer to your question I would say yes. I believe you should be able to say what you like where you like short of making threats or inciting violence. If Rangers fans want to sing the Billy Boys let them. If Celtic Fans want to sing songs Glorifying the IRA let them. As a human being I have the power to ignore anything said or shouted I don't agree with. For the record I don't agree with what the gentleman on this occasion shouted and I wouldn't go to a football match to make a statement like this myself. I just find it abhorrent that a man was taken to the brink of criminalisation for speaking a sentence like this.

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OK take a step back here and let me ask you to take this to its logical conclusion.

At what point would you as a paying customer get pissed off about a political act at a football ground?

What if he'd decided to wave a Palestinian flag?

What about if he'd decided to invade the pitch?

What if 300 fans made a concerted effort to demonstrate by attacking Kayal by disrupting the game?

The problem with politics is that it has the capacity to escalate to a point where it disrupts everything and everyone and suddenly one man's "crusade" becomes everyone else's disruption.

We don't need politics at football matches. We pay to see football and deserve the right to do that peacefully without anyone trying to hijack the agenda for their own attention seeking twattery.

What we appear to be disagreeing about here is how far the protests should go before someone steps in.

All I'm saying is that if someone is a zealot there's no controlling them and so it's best to disconnect sport and politics completely.

We're not talking about acts of civil disobedience or disruptions to a match though are we? We're talking about a man making a statement in a football match. It's an issue of free speech. Would you be happy for someone who shouted "better together" or "vote yes" at a football match to be arrested?

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In answer to your question I would say yes. I believe you should be able to say what you like where you like short of making threats or inciting violence. If Rangers fans want to sing the Billy Boys let them. If Celtic Fans want to sing songs Glorifying the IRA let them. As a human being I have the power to ignore anything said or shouted I don't agree with. For the record I don't agree with what the gentleman on this occasion shouted and I wouldn't go to a football match to make a statement like this myself. I just find it abhorrent that a man was taken to the brink of criminalisation for speaking a sentence like this.

Sorry bud but you'll end up going to football on your own.

We changed all that because football in the 80's was absolutely f**king brutal.

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We're not talking about acts of civil disobedience or disruptions to a match though are we? We're talking about a man making a statement in a football match. It's an issue of free speech. Would you be happy for someone who shouted "better together" or "vote yes" at a football match to be arrested?

You see them as the same thing? 1eye.gif

The issue isn't the shouiting. The issue is that a player was targetted purely because of his nationality.

When I was growing up we called this racism.

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You see them as the same thing? 1eye.gif

The issue isn't the shouiting. The issue is that a player was targetted purely because of his nationality.

When I was growing up we called this racism.

Explain how the comment was racist. If it was a racist he would have been prosecuted. And rightly so.

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Explain how the comment was racist. If it was a racist he would have been prosecuted. And rightly so.

I knew you would try splitting hairs over the technical definition of racism in order to deflect away from the issue.

The issue is very simple. I support freedom of speech within reasonable limits (as with the majority of people) but I don't support the targetting of someone for abuse of any kind purely because of where they come from. If you do support that then that's your right but prepare to be challenged, arrested if needed and go through the potential stress and needless worry of being potentially prosecuted.

This is NOT a freedom of speech issue. This is an issue of attacking someone because of their place of birth. You are attempting to defend the indefensible.

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I knew you would try splitting hairs over the technical definition of racism in order to deflect away from the issue.

The issue is very simple. I support freedom of speech within reasonable limits (as with the majority of people) but I don't support the targetting of someone for abuse of any kind purely because of where they come from. If you do support that then that's your right but prepare to be challenged, arrested if needed and go through the potential stress and needless worry of being potentially prosecuted.

This is NOT a freedom of speech issue. This is an issue of attacking someone because of their place of birth. You are attempting to defend the indefensible.

I'm sure you'll be surprised to hear I have to disagree with you on this one. Also I don't accept Kayal was abused in any way, shape or form.

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Mill Street shouldve been bypassed.

Dykebar wouldve been more appropriate.

f**king lunacy spouting this shite at a football match.

Support yir team or shut the f**k up.

Have Braidmeister for company.

Free speech my bollox.

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We've had enough political shite from the followers of the Blue Vermin ( deceased ) and Green Vermin for decades that has disgraced our beautiful game.

Dinnae need Saints fans going public at matches.

And picking on Kayal is pathetic.

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