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Buddie Arrested For Free Speech!

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More appropriate for St Mirren Park over the years wid be ..

FREE PIES !

FREE PROGRAMMES !

FREE ADMISSION !

FREE ELLIOT !

Not Palestine.

Palestine can be done on General Nonsense here and be debated to death as can any other political or religous topic.

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And GTPS !

This section is for super dooper team formations and line ups.

You have my full agreement mon Shull,

I would also assert that this thread has ran its course. It is now being used as a vehicle for the internet troll that is behind the name Saints0 to peddle his urine. If I were a trusted moderator of this fine forum I would have closed it before now and did something really clever whereby no-one ever see's the posts made by this troll fellow so the troll himself does not realise and just thinks he is being ignored to the point that he eventually goes away.

Have I just had a clever idea?

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Im saying if you went round and asked everyone if they wanted to watch the game or listen to someone shout about Palestine then it would pretty unanimous. If it was only being 'spoken about' then that would be fine but it was shouted at a player.. twice.

I sit next to the elderly chap, and I didn't hear him shout "free Palestine" the first time.

I heard him shout it the second time as after the two policeman had spoken to him, I asked him what was that about and he said to me that those two police there (pointing with his eyes) that they would arrest me if I shouted "free Palestine" again. He said this in a loud voice and was subsequently arrested.

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We're not talking about acts of civil disobedience or disruptions to a match though are we? We're talking about a man making a statement in a football match. It's an issue of free speech. Would you be happy for someone who shouted "better together" or "vote yes" at a football match to be arrested?

I have wondered if, as we get closer to the Scottish Independance Referendum, whether I would be arrested under this new act for shouting "free Scotland".

The judiciary don't like this new law.

Only the police and the politicians like it.

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You have my full agreement mon Shull,

I would also assert that this thread has ran its course. It is now being used as a vehicle for the internet troll that is behind the name Saints0 to peddle his urine. If I were a trusted moderator of this fine forum I would have closed it before now and did something really clever whereby no-one ever see's the posts made by this troll fellow so the troll himself does not realise and just thinks he is being ignored to the point that he eventually goes away.

Have I just had a clever idea?

I doubt it. Your writing style may impress your fanboys but,at the end of the day,you resort to "hide his posts" rather than engage me in debate .I appreciate that my views are not very positive at present but this is a forum and i will continue to air my thoughts .I hope i will be allowed to do so without being labelled a "troll" or "old filth supporter"

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You have my full agreement mon Shull,

I would also assert that this thread has ran its course. It is now being used as a vehicle for the internet troll that is behind the name Saints0 to peddle his urine. If I were a trusted moderator of this fine forum I would have closed it before now and did something really clever whereby no-one ever see's the posts made by this troll fellow so the troll himself does not realise and just thinks he is being ignored to the point that he eventually goes away.

Have I just had a clever idea?

You are nothing more or less than an immature bully,asking moderators to make me "disappear" just confirms that fact,forthright views should not be just tolerated,they should be welcomed,,or has free speech been outlawed in Paisley ?

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You are nothing more or less than an immature bully,asking moderators to make me "disappear" just confirms that fact,forthright views should not be just tolerated,they should be welcomed,,or has free speech been outlawed in Paisley ?

"FREE Saints0"

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Have just saw this thread and while you will understand as I work in this area I cannot make comment on individual arrests I would like to clear up a couple of things.

Whilst probably agreeing it is not the worst crime ever it does break the current laws and that are the only ones that can be policed however it is understandbly frustrating when other fans seem to be getting off with things but the officers concerned can only police the area of the park they are in.

As for ejecting him from the parkbeing the more sensible option? Probably.

However can I add when we are given our remit from our bosses it is that only the stewards can eject fans from the game,if we are taking anyone out they will be under arrest.

As I say am not debating the rights and wrongs just hopefully clearing up a couple technical points.

What should you or the police have done after hearing the comments of Neil Lennon at the game?

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My take on this is, if you stop people from verbally making their opinion known in a non threatening manner, you are moving toward the sort of state that the majority of us would find unpalatable and offensive.

I'm not intending to pass judgement on the actual content and the man in question may have directed the comment at an Israeli player, but it was not abusive, nor threatening to the individual, and he is perfectly enitled to make his political stance known. It doesn't matter WHERE he is as long as he isn't breaking the law in doing so. In this case the new legislation was, at the very least, misused to eject someone from the stadium.

It's rich that some people think it ok to abuse Tokely for his indiscretions, vile as they may have been, and yet won't accept others right of free speech.

I would go further and say the police have actually assisted the individual in his attempt, if it were his intention, to raise his profile.

At the end of the day we have to decide whether we wish to have a voice or if we wish to live in silence at every apparent atrocity.

Edited by stlucifer

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My take on this is, if you stop people from verbally making their opinion known in a non threatening manner, you are moving toward the sort of state that the majority of us would find unpalatable and offensive.

I'm not intending to pass judgement on the actual content and the man in question may have directed the comment at an Israeli player, but it was not abusive, nor threatening to the individual, and he is perfectly enitled to make his political stance known. It doesn't matter WHERE he is as long as he isn't breaking the law in doing so. In this case the new legislation was, at the very least, misused to eject someone from the stadium.

It's rich that some people think it ok to abuse Tokely for his indiscretions, vile as they may have been, and yet won't accept others right of free speech.

I would go further and say the police have actually assisted the individual in his attempt, if it were his intention, to raise his profile.

At the end of the day we have to decide whether we wish to have a voice or if we wish to live in silence at every apparent atrocity.

Impressive stuff. You've reached a 7/10 on the Pomposity Scale with that post. lol.gif

When people are comparing this guy to freedom fighters it's a wee bit hard to take seriously.

As I said above, this is not about freedom of speech. It's about attention seeking twattery. You're confusing the two.

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Impressive stuff. You've reached a 7/10 on the Pomposity Scale with that post. lol.gif

When people are comparing this guy to freedom fighters it's a wee bit hard to take seriously.

As I said above, this is not about freedom of speech. It's about attention seeking twattery. You're confusing the two.

Far more succinct but you outscored me their. And,might I say? Irony to the nth degree!whistling.gif

Edited by stlucifer

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What should you or the police have done after hearing the comments of Neil Lennon at the game?

He could have been arrested, "A" denoting the person displaying the behaviour.

Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010

Section 38 © "A" intends by the behaviour to cause fear or alarm or is reckless as to whether the behaviour would cause fear or alarm.

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So your saying the crowd at a football match collectively decides the things that can and cant be spoken about at the game? How does this work then?

The SPL ground rules say these things can't be spoken about at a game. If your entering the ground you have to go with these rules.

What gets me is its one rule for the OF and another for the rest of us. The Police and the SFA/SPFL are running scared of them.

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Impressive stuff. You've reached a 7/10 on the Pomposity Scale with that post. lol.gif

When people are comparing this guy to freedom fighters it's a wee bit hard to take seriously.

As I said above, this is not about freedom of speech. It's about attention seeking twattery. You're confusing the two.

Well I've read quite a lot of your posts on here more than anyone else and I admit defeat....you won the 'attention seeking twattery' by a long way.

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What has Palestine got to do with a footballer from Israel.

Was a reaction wanted from Kayal.

Maybe we could get a quote or reaction from DVZ and Goodwin about The Troubles ?

Pathetic DSS !

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What should you or the police have done after hearing the comments of Neil Lennon at the game?

As I already said as I work in this area I cannot comment on individual incidents.

I am a passionate football fan who probably says things at times that are out of order and try to police games as a football fan as well as a police officer as I was a fan a hell of a long time before I was a police officer.

Was only trying to clear up a couple of technical points.

Although I can assure you far more OF fans are arrested under these laws than non OF fans despite what you may think.

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He could have been arrested, "A" denoting the person displaying the behaviour.

Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010

Section 38 © "A" intends by the behaviour to cause fear or alarm or is reckless as to whether the behaviour would cause fear or alarm.

This is indeed correct, he could have been. I'm not sure exactly what training the police are given on offences of this type, but I'd imagine it's based on whether or not such an arrest would be worthwhile or pointless based on the expected eventual outcome?

When a case such as this gets to the fiscal (and then subsequently to court), the test that is used is not a subjective one (i.e. it is not based on if anybody actually was placed in a situation of being in fear or alarm), rather an objective one, which looks at the likelihood of the 'ordinary' person who is neither overly sensitive nor overly immune to such fear and alarm.

In my opinion, this type of case would have a close to zero prospect of any sort of conviction (or even getting past the first stage of the fiscal before being dropped), as it would be incredibly difficult to establish that an ordinary person would be placed in such a position of being in a state of fear or alarm for being called a fanny...

Again, I cannot be certain as to the specifics of local police training on the issue, but I'd imagine they are told in general to overlook such an issue for these reasons.

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This is indeed correct, he could have been. I'm not sure exactly what training the police are given on offences of this type, but I'd imagine it's based on whether or not such an arrest would be worthwhile or pointless based on the expected eventual outcome?

When a case such as this gets to the fiscal (and then subsequently to court), the test that is used is not a subjective one (i.e. it is not based on if anybody actually was placed in a situation of being in fear or alarm), rather an objective one, which looks at the likelihood of the 'ordinary' person who is neither overly sensitive nor overly immune to such fear and alarm.

In my opinion, this type of case would have a close to zero prospect of any sort of conviction (or even getting past the first stage of the fiscal before being dropped), as it would be incredibly difficult to establish that an ordinary person would be placed in such a position of being in a state of fear or alarm for being called a fanny...

Again, I cannot be certain as to the specifics of local police training on the issue, but I'd imagine they are told in general to overlook such an issue for these reasons.

Perhaps it was a stealth advert for Irn Bru thumbup2.gif

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Well I've read quite a lot of your posts on here more than anyone else and I admit defeat....you won the 'attention seeking twattery' by a long way.

Listen I am very happy to take comments like that from anyone but truthfully there's no way I've beaten you to this award bud.

This one is yours and yours alone.

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