Drew Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Dundee have signed Leatheren from Killie too. Are they going to sign everyone we're linked with? Charlie Miller in the engine room, with Robbie Winters providing the ammunition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Charlie Miller in the engine room, with Robbie Winters providing the ammunition? Dorman on the bench. .? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Dorman on the bench. .? Higdon as sub striker...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I meant you have decried him recently - I have no idea what you thought about him when he signed but its the usual - sign someone have a bit of a moan, dont sign someone we may or may not have been interested in and its a terrible thing. you cannot even say with hindsight yet - Gary Teale took to the second year to come good, who's to say Robertson wont be the same? I have decried him because he's rubbish and he has a 2 year deal. Nothing to do with the actual signing of him. If he had been given a 1 year deal - as he should have been - he would have been released without question and it would have been a failed gamble, fair enough. I decried Carey for being rubbish but when he was signed i thought it was a fantastic signing. Some gambles are worth taking, low risk 1 year deals from players at the top end of part time football are fair enough. Doris would have been a decent bit of value for us. Give him a year coming off the bench playing second fiddle to Thommo, he certainly couldn't have been much worse than Guy or Parkin. I've heard this comparison between Teale and Robbo a few times now. Teale is an ex Scotland international with EPL experience, there was never any question that he was good enough to play in the SPL. He seemed to have fitness issues in his first year, which he over came in his second year. The difference between him and Robbo is that Robbo has no top level experience, what's holding JR back is a lack of quality, not a lack of fitness. That's something that's alot more difficult to improve upon. Hopefully we can get some Newton-esque midfielders in on loan, so we can punt Robbo back to Cowdenbeath before releasing him. I'd be absolutely stunned if he was still at St Mirren this time next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrez Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I have decried him because he's rubbish and he has a 2 year deal. Nothing to do with the actual signing of him. If he had been given a 1 year deal - as he should have been - he would have been released without question and it would have been a failed gamble, fair enough. I decried Carey for being rubbish but when he was signed i thought it was a fantastic signing. Some gambles are worth taking, low risk 1 year deals from players at the top end of part time football are fair enough. Doris would have been a decent bit of value for us. Give him a year coming off the bench playing second fiddle to Thommo, he certainly couldn't have been much worse than Guy or Parkin. I've heard this comparison between Teale and Robbo a few times now. Teale is an ex Scotland international with EPL experience, there was never any question that he was good enough to play in the SPL. He seemed to have fitness issues in his first year, which he over came in his second year. The difference between him and Robbo is that Robbo has no top level experience, what's holding JR back is a lack of quality, not a lack of fitness. That's something that's alot more difficult to improve upon. Hopefully we can get some Newton-esque midfielders in on loan, so we can punt Robbo back to Cowdenbeath before releasing him. I'd be absolutely stunned if he was still at St Mirren this time next year. Teale never had fitness issues, the issue was the way he was being asked to play. Dont put too much stock into the one or two year contract argument - Robertson will be earning less in 2 years than other guys will over a 3 year contract. Had we signed Doris and he turned out to be rubbish you wouldnt be saying at least we gave him a shot you would have used it as another stick to beat Lennon's transfer dealings over the head with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I said earlier in this thread that i believed Doris would be worth a gamble. These signings are unlikely to sucede, but a team like us has to take a punt every now and then. Danny's due a gamble to pay off, it's been about 2 years since one of his permanent signings did. Yeh, gamble on Jon Robertson to warm the bench or Darren McGregor to sit at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Teale never had fitness issues, the issue was the way he was being asked to play. Dont put too much stock into the one or two year contract argument - Robertson will be earning less in 2 years than other guys will over a 3 year contract. Had we signed Doris and he turned out to be rubbish you wouldnt be saying at least we gave him a shot you would have used it as another stick to beat Lennon's transfer dealings over the head with He played right wing several times last season, he played there more than he played anywhere else. He had a few injuries and it seemed like he had lost his pace. Remarkably he seemed to regain that last year. Not at all. Take Paul McGinn as an example. I think he was a worthwhile punt on a 1 year deal. It never paid off and it cost the club money, you won't find me criticising Danny for that one though. For players from part time football like Robbo, P McGinn and Doris a 1 year deal is sufficient to have a look. If - as is likely - these players don't make it for whatever reason it's easy to get rid. I'm sure Dannys learnt this lesson now, i'd be stunned if players coming from part time football get two year deals with us again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Yeh, gamble on Jon Robertson to warm the bench or Darren McGregor to sit at home. Darren McGregor is the one vague success story Dannys had from the SFL, and he's taken plenty of punts. He's due one to come good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Darren McGregor is the one vague success story Dannys had from the SFL, You think so? He's played 115 games in 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrez Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 He played right wing several times last season, he played there more than he played anywhere else. He had a few injuries and it seemed like he had lost his pace. Remarkably he seemed to regain that last year. Not at all. Take Paul McGinn as an example. I think he was a worthwhile punt on a 1 year deal. It never paid off and it cost the club money, you won't find me criticising Danny for that one though. For players from part time football like Robbo, P McGinn and Doris a 1 year deal is sufficient to have a look. If - as is likely - these players don't make it for whatever reason it's easy to get rid. I'm sure Dannys learnt this lesson now, i'd be stunned if players coming from part time football get two year deals with us again. Signing of McGinn is one you should be chastising him for! He was brought in and not even given a chance - I think Robertson will come good this year, while you mention Teale's pace (fair point, he did improve his fitness), Robertsons problem is his confidence, you can see in the way he plays, he needs confidence in his own ability. I dont care what anyone says about him, the ability to score on a volley from a corner no matter the opposition shows he is a talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I'm sure Dannys learnt this lesson now, i'd be stunned if players coming from part time football get two year deals with us again. Why you moaning about Doris then? After what Danny did to Wardlaw I don't see why any part time player would come to us on a 1 year gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Signing of McGinn is one you should be chastising him for! He was brought in and not even given a chance - I think Robertson will come good this year, while you mention Teale's pace (fair point, he did improve his fitness), Robertsons problem is his confidence, you can see in the way he plays, he needs confidence in his own ability. I dont care what anyone says about him, the ability to score on a volley from a corner no matter the opposition shows he is a talent. I don't blame Danny for McGinn at all. He was farmed out on loan and was successful, he was offered a new deal and chose to reject it in favour of part time football. That's part of the risk with these players, they may not adapt to full time football, they may not be willing to spend most of the time on the bench or in the reserves, they may have better options outside football. That's what happened with P McGinn, such is life. Robbos volley was indeed a good goal - better than Careys that won GOTS in my opinion - and he played very well in the game in which he scored it. I don't think it's a coincidence that it was against part time Brechin. He is clearly a very good player at that level and it's easy to see why he won POTY in that division before joining us. Its one thing doing it at that level, its another thing doing it in the SPL. I hope he does come good next year, but i think it's pretty unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Why you moaning about Doris then? After what Danny did to Wardlaw I don't see why any part time player would come to us on a 1 year gamble. I think he would have been a good player to take a gamble on. Maybe not, its up to the individual player. I'd imagine most would see the opportunity of full time football for a year in the SPL as a fantastic opportunity to advance their careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I have decried him because he's rubbish and he has a 2 year deal. Nothing to do with the actual signing of him. If he had been given a 1 year deal - as he should have been - he would have been released without question and it would have been a failed gamble, fair enough. I decried Carey for being rubbish but when he was signed i thought it was a fantastic signing. Some gambles are worth taking, low risk 1 year deals from players at the top end of part time football are fair enough. Doris would have been a decent bit of value for us. Give him a year coming off the bench playing second fiddle to Thommo, he certainly couldn't have been much worse than Guy or Parkin. I've heard this comparison between Teale and Robbo a few times now. Teale is an ex Scotland international with EPL experience, there was never any question that he was good enough to play in the SPL. He seemed to have fitness issues in his first year, which he over came in his second year. The difference between him and Robbo is that Robbo has no top level experience, what's holding JR back is a lack of quality, not a lack of fitness. That's something that's alot more difficult to improve upon. Hopefully we can get some Newton-esque midfielders in on loan, so we can punt Robbo back to Cowdenbeath before releasing him. I'd be absolutely stunned if he was still at St Mirren this time next year. The problem Lex is that a lot of players are unwilling to take a 1 year contract and will always seek something that brings a bit more security. They make take a smaller wage but over 2 years it is still much better than the gamble of a 1 year deal with perhaps nothing at the end of it whether you are good or bad - football is skint and getting something above 1 year brings greater security in this age of austerity. The bottom line is that we do not know whether Doris was on the radar or whether his decision to come or not is down to wages, length of contract or any other reason. Who really care anyway, there are plenty of other players out there and Danny, as in the past, will be measured on who he brings in, his tactics and results. I am sure there will be a couple of surprises before the serious stuff begins in early August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Higdon as sub striker...................... I see what you did there Edited July 10, 2013 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbar_bud Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I wouldnt imagine Doris would have accepted a one year deal. He got 2 years at dundee, i imagine the wages wont be a million miles apart,as he would have started as back up for us but will probably be a first choice for dundee and its also a lot closer to home for him. Doris doesnt sign, and Lex states he would have been a good bit of value. If Doris had signed lex would have pointed to Wardlaw, McQuade etc as a reason we shouldnt sign guys like that and it is a waste of money. More attempts by Lex to have a go at the manager. sad really and extremely transparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I have decried him because he's rubbish and he has a 2 year deal. Nothing to do with the actual signing of him. If he had been given a 1 year deal - as he should have been - he would have been released without question and it would have been a failed gamble, fair enough. I decried Carey for being rubbish but when he was signed i thought it was a fantastic signing. Some gambles are worth taking, low risk 1 year deals from players at the top end of part time football are fair enough. Doris would have been a decent bit of value for us. Give him a year coming off the bench playing second fiddle to Thommo, I've heard this comparison between Teale and Robbo a few times now. Teale is an ex Scotland international with EPL experience, there was never any question that he was good enough to play in the SPL. He seemed to have fitness issues in his first year, which he over came in his second year. The difference between him and Robbo is that Robbo has no top level experience, what's holding JR back is a lack of quality, not a lack of fitness. That's something that's alot more difficult to improve upon. Hopefully we can get some Newton-esque midfielders in on loan, so we can punt Robbo back to Cowdenbeath before releasing him. I'd be absolutely stunned if he was still at St Mirren this time next year. He's not rubbish . The is an SPL player there which I have no doubt will emerge in time. Wither its with us and if we have the time to invest in him is another matter he certainly couldn't have been much worse than Guy or Parkin. See Baird, Lynch, Wardlaw, McQuade. McShane etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I wouldnt imagine Doris would have accepted a one year deal. He got 2 years at dundee, i imagine the wages wont be a million miles apart,as he would have started as back up for us but will probably be a first choice for dundee and its also a lot closer to home for him. Doris doesnt sign, and Lex states he would have been a good bit of value. If Doris had signed lex would have pointed to Wardlaw, McQuade etc as a reason we shouldnt sign guys like that and it is a waste of money. More attempts by Lex to have a go at the manager. sad really and extremely transparent. Doris failed to make the grade at Dundee and is presently out on loan with Arbroath. Glad he didn't accept our offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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