Time To Revive Community Ownership ?

[Guest somner9]

When did Clyde go into administration ?

I'd have thought you would have known they've been in administration three times, had to ground share with Thistle, Hamilton, Alloa and are now looking to play somewhere in or around East Kilbride....

Obviously it's a winning blueprint diddy clubs like ours can only dream of emulating...

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

i and i am sure all other members of the fans council will take that as an insult, we are not being used to line any pockets, raising funds that are needed for youth development, encouraging youngsters to go to games and trying to improve existing fan experience are our main aims, those actions may mean that the club can attract better players at all age levels and also increase the fanbase, which may put the club in a better financial standing (that would be in a good few years yet though) i don't see individual shareholders making much if anything at all from that as shares would not increase by much in value.

The club may be helped to a more secure future and surely that is a good thing for all fans, the fans council (membership 20 people) - not sure what you imply by putting that in brackets, anyway we volunteer and give up our own time to go to meetings and spend other free time developing ideas away from meetings and should not be subjected to snide remarks or thinly veiled accusations of only being used to make money for individual people

First of all would like to say it's great to see fans such as yourself taking time out to benefit the club I take my hat of to you all.

Someone wrote last week that the club has 6,000 e-mail address from applications for league cup final tickets. To me that sounds like a great opportunity to contact directly these people in some kind of PR promotion. Manager and players with a direct message what it would mean to the club if they could come along and support the team even now and again. Hope you don't take this personally because I admire fans such as yourself.

[buddiecat]

First of all would like to say it's great to see fans such as yourself taking time out to benefit the club I take my hat of to you all.

Someone wrote last week that the club has 6,000 e-mail address from applications for league cup final tickets. To me that sounds like a great opportunity to contact directly these people in some kind of PR promotion. Manager and players with a direct message what it would mean to the club if they could come along and support the team even now and again. Hope you don't take this personally because I admire fans such as yourself.

thanks for your comments, i will put your suggestion forward at the next meeting to see what can be done about contacting people on the email list, any other suggestions from anyone will be welcome - every saints fan is a fans council member, 20 of us are meeting members and we have a profile on here as well as a page on the official site

[RickMcD]

As they say in the trade:-

Things are "bubbling away nicely" at the moment for Clyde Football Club. There is more than "one iron in the fire at this moment in time, burning away quite nicely". Things are "ticking over fine". "All will be revealed in due course".

You're beginning to sound a bit like Stu. I'm sure it's not intentional.

[Guest somner9]

As they say in the trade:-

Things are "bubbling away nicely" at the moment for Clyde Football Club. There is more than "one iron in the fire at this moment in time, burning away quite nicely". Things are "ticking over fine". "All will be revealed in due course".

Check your PM's Lovestreet Ooops sorry maxi

[Stuart Dickson]

I was about to ask the same questions. Stu has a habit of making statements like that up and then can't back them up. My guess is he'll not be able to reveal his source. I doubt if annual report and accounts have been published recently. I've no doubt good things are happening at Clyde but having a miniscule turnover is in some ways easier to handle. There's a team in Paisley which handles its finances very well too but Stu hasn't noticed.

My source is David Dishon, the Finance Director at Clyde FC.

[RickMcD]

My source is David Dishon, the Finance Director at Clyde FC.

Can we email him?

[Guest somner9]

"My source is David Dishon, the Finance Director at Clyde FC.

Can we email him?

don't know his email address but you could try snail mail at one/all of these?

C/o Firhill, Douglas Park, Recreation Park, Broadwood, The general East Kilbride area... TBC?

[waldorf34]

Bob Earlie and Charlie Palmer still own substantial sharesin the club maybe they could buy out the consortium ( or douglas street ltd to give them their real name)

[RickMcD]

Bob Earlie and Charlie Palmer still own substantial sharesin the club maybe they could buy out the consortium ( or douglas street ltd to give them their real name)

That isn't the Charlie (Chic) Palmer that once featured with Saints by any chance?

[alanmurray24]

Bob Earlie and Charlie Palmer still own substantial sharesin the club  maybe they could buy out the consortium ( or douglas street ltd to give them their real name)

Was douglas street ltd not the limited company set up by Richard and 10000 hours & Stewart and the rest of the selling directors to handle the buy out. I can remember someone asking about that at one of the meetings

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[div]

Was douglas street ltd not the limited company set up by Richard and 10000 hours & Stewart and the rest of the selling directors to handle the buy out. I can remember someone asking about that at one of the meetings

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Douglas Street Ltd is a holding company which currently contains the combined 52% controlling stake in St.Mirren FC Ltd. This is so that any buyer can purchase all the shares in a single transaction if and when a deal has been agreed with the selling consortium

[alanmurray24]

 

Douglas Street Ltd is a holding company which currently contains the combined 52% controlling stake in St.Mirren FC Ltd. This is so that any buyer can purchase all the shares in a single transaction if and when a deal has been agreed with the selling consortium

Cheers Div. Thought so, nothing to do with palmer and earlie.

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[reborn saint]

Reborn - I don't think you know who or what Supporters Direct is.

No I have no idea...But you do and you like them.....Enough to make me and every Saint worried? ......Keep them away from our club Stu.....Not needed!....Who are these people? (AMc TM)

[waldorf34]

No I have no idea...But you do and you like them.....Enough to make me and every Saint worried? ......Keep them away from our club Stu.....Not needed!....Who are these people? (AMc TM)Richard Atkinson is on the board of supporters direct and st mirren

[reborn saint]

No I have no idea...But you do and you like them.....Enough to make me and every Saint worried? ......Keep them away from our club Stu.....Not needed!....Who are these people? (AMc TM)Richard Atkinson is on the board of supporters direct and st mirren

Ha Ha ...Well done mate......My opinion of RA is well known....I do not have to agree with everything he says or associates himself with ......Fair point though.

[Isabella Duke]

My source is David Dishon, the Finance Director at Clyde FC.

You'll be able to answer my original question then surely?

I can't imagine you made the post you did on the back of an off the cuff one-liner from this guy to yourself in a casual conversation.

Surely not...

[Stuart Dickson]

You'll be able to answer my original question then surely?

I can't imagine you made the post you did on the back of an off the cuff one-liner from this guy to yourself in a casual conversation.

Surely not...

Captain he posted it on Facebook and on the Clyde CIC website. I'm not claiming to be his bosom buddy or his drinking partner.

In January he reported on the Clyde website that Clyde owed £97,000 to NLC and that this was due to be paid off in November 2014. The same report showed that Clyde had repaid over 80% of their total debt to NLC over an eight year period since their CVA. On the 16th of February he reported Clyde were now in the black having sold 6,500 tickets for their home match with Rangers - that match eventually sold out with an 8,000 capacity. On the 18th of March he reported that with just over one year left until he steps down as finance director Clyde were now in the black, and gearing up for the 2013-14 season with cash in the bank for the first time in well over a decade. He also said that Clyde were now operating in an annual surplus year on year - a situation that he said most Scottish clubs were envious of - and he said that Clydes future was now assured for generations to come. The annual accounts haven't been submitted yet - I don't think they are due to be submitted for some time.

The beauty of being a CIC is the openness within the running of the club. Even you can get David Dishons contact details and ask him yourself. David took great delight at the time of pointing out the ridiculous nature of the SPL proposals to offer Division Three clubs what amounted to less than £30k each to vote in favour of putting "Rangers" into the Scottish First Division. St Mirren fans would do well to follow his posts - it often offers great balance to the shit that is force fed through the media from the likes of Neil Doncaster.

[Isabella Duke]

Captain he posted it on Facebook and on the Clyde CIC website. I'm not claiming to be his bosom buddy or his drinking partner.

In January he reported on the Clyde website that Clyde owed £97,000 to NLC and that this was due to be paid off in November 2014. The same report showed that Clyde had repaid over 80% of their total debt to NLC over an eight year period since their CVA. On the 16th of February he reported Clyde were now in the black having sold 6,500 tickets for their home match with Rangers - that match eventually sold out with an 8,000 capacity. On the 18th of March he reported that with just over one year left until he steps down as finance director Clyde were now in the black, and gearing up for the 2013-14 season with cash in the bank for the first time in well over a decade. He also said that Clyde were now operating in an annual surplus year on year - a situation that he said most Scottish clubs were envious of - and he said that Clydes future was now assured for generations to come. The annual accounts haven't been submitted yet - I don't think they are due to be submitted for some time.

The beauty of being a CIC is the openness within the running of the club. Even you can get David Dishons contact details and ask him yourself. David took great delight at the time of pointing out the ridiculous nature of the SPL proposals to offer Division Three clubs what amounted to less than £30k each to vote in favour of putting "Rangers" into the Scottish First Division. St Mirren fans would do well to follow his posts - it often offers great balance to the shit that is force fed through the media from the likes of Neil Doncaster.

So your source isn't actually Clyde's finance director nor is your source Clyde's actual books.

Your source is facebook!

Have Clyde built a running track yet?

[Stuart Dickson]

So your source isn't actually Clyde's finance director nor is your source Clyde's actual books.

Your source is facebook!

:

Have Clyde built a running track yet?

:

No - it's David Dishon who communicates with me on Facebook over a number of issues. I know you struggle with the concept Captain cause you don't have friends but I'll use Facebook messenger more than I use e-mail these days.

[Guest somner9]

So your source isn't actually Clyde's finance director nor is your source Clyde's actual books.

Your source is facebook!

:

Have Clyde built a running track yet?

:

Aye they've gota a fair few 'dogs' in the squad who could do with the run out!

Isn't their new name Clyde EK as in 'E-ther K-inetic' meaning their home ground is 'Virtually' anywhere?

[Robo]

i and i am sure all other members of the fans council will take that as an insult, we are not being used to line any pockets, raising funds that are needed for youth development, encouraging youngsters to go to games and trying to improve existing fan experience are our main aims,

This touches on something I had been thinking about a while back with regards to how fans (whether it be 10000 Hours, SMISA, or some other organisation) could invest in the club now, and still work towards a longer term goal of fan ownership. I sent an idea on to REA a few months back but would be interested to see what others thought.

The jist was that the pledges that had been made to fund the 10000 hours bid would instead be used to invest in the youth development program, with perhaps a small amount set aside each month to build up a cash reserve. Some agreement would be reached with the club whereby a portion of the proceeds from the sale of any players who came through the youth system would be allocated to fans investment vehicle - this would be dependant on how much of the youth development program's budget would be funded by the fans. This would allow the fans group to accumulate funds with a view to buying shares in the club, admittedly over a longer period of time. There would be no debt taken on, and the worst case scenario is that there are no qualifying transfers of players that would bring any return on the investment, but even so, the fan's money would still have been invested directly in the club.

I have the utmost respect for the folks trying to raise money for the club but, at the end of the day, St Mirren is not a charity (as is borne out by the fact that the majority shareholders are looking to sell up for a considerable sum of money). So if the fans are investing money in the youth development program, should they not be entitled to a return on that investment?

Edited to add, that I am no businessman, and I have no idea what the youth development budget is, so feel free to pick holes in this!

Edited July 26, 2013 by Robo

[Stuart Dickson]

This touches on something I had been thinking about a while back with regards to how fans (whether it be 10000 Hours, SMISA, or some other organisation) could invest in the club now, and still work towards a longer term goal of fan ownership. I sent an idea on to REA a few months back but would be interested to see what others thought.

The jist was that the pledges that had been made to fund the 10000 hours bid would instead be used to invest in the youth development program, with perhaps a small amount set aside each month to build up a cash reserve. Some agreement would be reached with the club whereby a portion of the proceeds from the sale of any players who came through the youth system would be allocated to fans investment vehicle - this would be dependant on how much of the youth development program's budget would be funded by the fans. This would allow the fans group to accumulate funds with a view to buying shares in the club, admittedly over a longer period of time. There would be no debt taken on, and the worst case scenario is that there are no qualifying transfers of players that would bring any return on the investment, but even so, the fan's money would still have been invested directly in the club.

I have the utmost respect for the folks trying to raise money for the club but, at the end of the day, St Mirren is not a charity (as is borne out by the fact that the majority shareholders are looking to sell up for a considerable sum of money). So if the fans are investing money in the youth development program, should they not be entitled to a return on that investment?

Edited to add, that I am no businessman, and I have no idea what the youth development budget is, so feel free to pick holes in this!

Robo - I think I would need more information from the club on what exactly what funding is required for the youth development set up and what it gets spent on before putting money into it. I know both the Fans Council and SMiSA say they are raising money for youth development so I presume that the clubs argument is that it's not all self funded through grants and sponsorship but I can't see there being a need - within the current set up - for a £10,000 per month contribution from the fans. However I don't think you are a million miles away from a very good and practical proposal not least because letting fans take ownership of the youth development side of the club would encourage greater interest and involvement in what happens at that level of the game. I'd also like to think that with more fan involvement there would also be a move to smarten up how the youth development side utilise their resources and their working practices.

Other than that I can't see how holes could be picked in it. Other clubs have been moving their youth development organisations into "trust ownership" usually to protect their youth development from the financial problems of their senior set ups.

[Robo]

 

Robo - I think I would need more information from the club on what exactly what funding is required for the youth development set up and what it gets spent on before putting money into it. I know both the Fans Council and SMiSA say they are raising money for youth development so I presume that the clubs argument is that it's not all self funded through grants and sponsorship but I can't see there being a need - within the current set up - for a £10,000 per month contribution from the fans.

That's a fair point, and ultimately the one that would decide whether this type of investment would be feasible - i.e. would £100k per annum be 5% or 50% of the total budget. No idea what the answer to that is. Of course, the money invested needn't be limited to the monthly subscriptions. If all fundraising by fans were to be included (saints aid, etc) then the figure could be more substantial. This obviously would need buy-in from those involved in fundraising, and I accept many may prefer the idea of just donating money to the club.

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[SaintRicky]

I guess the present position of the BOD (at least those who represent the 51% Shareholding Consortium who wish to sell) are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. In that sense, I have some sympathy with them. The unintended consequence however is that the club will continue to be run prudently (not a bad thing) but with an eye to ensuring that the sale price is maximised. The latter may not be a bad thing either but may place the BOD in a position where they finish up at odds with a section of the fans. So who is the ideal buyer? A community club or a Private Buyer? Would the remaining Shareholders sell too? Would be want an ex pat or a rich Russian or Middle Eastern Owner be the answer? Lots of questions but no clear answers.