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Spfl Formatting Error? League Reconstruction Etc


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Anybody else a little disappointed by the minimal change to league structures inflicted by the SPFL merger? After all the talk of league reconstruction being branded around I can’t help but feel a little disappointed by the whole episode.

I think the new financial distribution model is probably a good thing. The playoff is definitely the most salient aspect of the whole affair, and very much welcomed. Everything else, for now it seems, stays as it was, with no major revamp of the league composition.

While this can be seen as a good or bad thing (good as an alternative to 12,12,18 and generally otherwise bad), there are many aspects of our current format that warrant attention, in particular the split.

The split remains, it seems, for one reason. That is to ensure the production of maximum old-firm games during the course of a season (when Sevco finally get in). To this end, some will say go 10,10,10,12 and play each other 4 times. Problems with this are perhaps the loss of 2 fixtures and increased likelihood of relegation for some. Supporters may also dislike the idea of playing the same teams over and over again.

We could go 18,12,12, and screw the old firm! Many of us know this is never going to get off the ground because of the simple fact that these old-firm games (plus Edinburgh derbies etc) are so vital to the TV revenue which props up our game these days, no matter how many supporters would opt for this (maybe even OF fans) It’s simply not viable.

Let’s disregard the 12,12,18 proposal as a quite terrible and hastily conjured up plan whilst Doncaster et al were coming off a crack high of sorts. The splitting of one league into 2 different leagues is quite simply solving a gas leak with a flamethrower.

14,14,14…I actually thought this could work, it seems simple enough and avoids any splitting of leagues and it avoids (to an extent) the repetitiveness of fixtures. If we play each team twice that only gives us 26 fixtures in a season, 3 times gives us 39, which although more reasonable it brings up problems of playing only some teams at home twice etc, plus the fact that 3 old-firm games instead of 4 will never be AS attractive to the TV companies.

If it were not for the problem of TV companies, it seems that there are many options that the game may benefit from, and that we as supporters could enjoy.

A SOLUTION?

One possible way around this would be to make use of the League Cup and ensure that this produces the old-firm fixtures that would satisfy the requirements of the broadcasters, and sell the TV rights to both as a package.

Regionalised cup groups could work quite well in my opinion. If we change the League Cup format to a Champions League style setup where the top teams (or two teams) from each group progress to subsequent rounds, we have solved the problem of old-firm games, as they would inevitably make up the Glasgow/Western group, depending on how the teams are separated.

The localised groupings make for more derby matches across the board, less travelling and thus higher attendances. It also makes sense that if a team is to be the best in their country/league setup then they should first be the best in their region.

Lets say we go 14,14,14, where each team plays each other twice in a season, this makes 26 games per season from league matches. A group format would compliment this and add another 6 games to give us the reasonable figure of 32 games per season at least (plus subsequent rounds and Scottish Cup games which could also be changed to a 2 leg format).

Currently, a team in the SPL who crashes out of both cups at the first round plays 40 games per season, if they are unlucky at least one of these cup games will be in some far flung corner of the highlands on a bleak Tuesday night. In the proposed model this team will play at least 32, (plus Scottish Cup games) travel less, and benefit from larger home crowds (theoretically).

It makes more sense for the League cup to be in this format since 8 groups of 4 fits neatly with the 42 teams in our current league setup (2 leg playoffs involving the lowest ranked 20 teams from the season before would settle entry issues). It would also be a shame to lose the open draw structure of the Scottish cup. There is still however the problem of exactly how the teams would be divided, since it is hard to see where outliers such as Berwick Rangers fit snugly into a pre-defined regional setup.

Another problem concerns where exactly the lines are drawn for groupings, for example while Sevco, Celtic, Partick Thistle and Clyde seems reasonable, Hamilton, Airdrie and ourselves could be included depending on exactly where lines are drawn.

If the 4-team groups prove too difficult to define, perhaps 4 groups of 8 could be the answer. 14 League cup games added to the 26 of the League matches (plus Subsequent rounds and Scottish cup games) would remain a reasonable amount.

The whole point in this is that in order to apply the best solution to the league formatting problem, whether it be more playoffs, less teams, more teams, we are swimming against a tide when we try and work around the fact that we must have "4 old firm games" this SHOULD be a secondary concern...but the truth is that it is the primary concern, and as things stand the league structure, whatever it might be...is shoehorned to fit this requirement.

The proposals put forward i.e. 12,12,18 with leagues splitting into all types of groups, as well as the current split, are in my opinion not truly reflective of a professional league. It would do us no harm to experiment with groups and formats etc through the medium of the league cup, satisfy TV requirements and at the same time retain a solid, reliable, simple and ultimately normal League format i.e. play everybody home and away regardless of the amount of teams…easy!

I’m curious about what the popular opinion would be concerning League reconstruction…also if anyone has any intricate knowledge of how the sponsorships work for League and Cup competitions so as to test the viability of the above proposal…over to you!

Edited by ss39Lavety
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Wow, you must have started typing that this morning!

I think the formation of the SPFL should be seen as a first step, rather than a final solution to Scottish footballs problem. We're now all under one organisation which will make any future changes much easier. And the introduction of the playoffs is a start to restructuring.

I think what is obvious though, is that despite what was said about Armageddon (again!), it was possible to cherry pick and the new setup should make cherry picking more possible in the future.

In terms of the league structure, I think the split has actually been a success and a lot of fans actually don't mind it at all. I think it adds to competition at the end of the season. And it's for more than just getting 4 OF games, it allows the number of games to be kept to the clubs ideal of 35-40 league games a season.

Of course having a 14 team league can also have a split, which our chairman prefers - top 6 and bottom 8. This means the bottom plays 40 and the top plays 36, however the top teams will have the (financial) advantage of having an additional OF game.

I like the idea of the sectional league cup ( which by the way, 8 groups of 4 is 32,not 42. This could be solved by having a qualifying round for the bottom 20 teams). However rather than regionalised, I would prefer it to be seeded. This way every season all clubs will have a game against every other level of Scottish football. I.e. it gives the small teams a financial boost when they play the bigger teams.

Anyway, this should probably be moved to other football. For some reason some people get upset about these type of things!

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Anybody else a little disappointed by the minimal change to league structures inflicted by the SPFL merger? After all the talk of league reconstruction being branded around I can’t help but feel a little disappointed by the whole episode.

I think the new financial distribution model is probably a good thing. The playoff is definitely the most salient aspect of the whole affair, and very much welcomed. Everything else, for now it seems, stays as it was, with no major revamp of the league composition.

While this can be seen as a good or bad thing (good as an alternative to 12,12,18 and generally otherwise bad), there are many aspects of our current format that warrant attention, in particular the split.

The split remains, it seems, for one reason. That is to ensure the production of maximum old-firm games during the course of a season (when Sevco finally get in). To this end, some will say go 10,10,10,12 and play each other 4 times. Problems with this are perhaps the loss of 2 fixtures and increased likelihood of relegation for some. Supporters may also dislike the idea of playing the same teams over and over again.

We could go 18,12,12, and screw the old firm! Many of us know this is never going to get off the ground because of the simple fact that these old-firm games (plus Edinburgh derbies etc) are so vital to the TV revenue which props up our game these days, no matter how many supporters would opt for this (maybe even OF fans) It’s simply not viable.

Let’s disregard the 12,12,18 proposal as a quite terrible and hastily conjured up plan whilst Doncaster et al were coming off a crack high of sorts. The splitting of one league into 2 different leagues is quite simply solving a gas leak with a flamethrower.

14,14,14…I actually thought this could work, it seems simple enough and avoids any splitting of leagues and it avoids (to an extent) the repetitiveness of fixtures. If we play each team twice that only gives us 26 fixtures in a season, 3 times gives us 39, which although more reasonable it brings up problems of playing only some teams at home twice etc, plus the fact that 3 old-firm games instead of 4 will never be AS attractive to the TV companies.

If it were not for the problem of TV companies, it seems that there are many options that the game may benefit from, and that we as supporters could enjoy.

A SOLUTION?

One possible way around this would be to make use of the League Cup and ensure that this produces the old-firm fixtures that would satisfy the requirements of the broadcasters, and sell the TV rights to both as a package.

Regionalised cup groups could work quite well in my opinion. If we change the League Cup format to a Champions League style setup where the top teams (or two teams) from each group progress to subsequent rounds, we have solved the problem of old-firm games, as they would inevitably make up the Glasgow/Western group, depending on how the teams are separated.

The localised groupings make for more derby matches across the board, less travelling and thus higher attendances. It also makes sense that if a team is to be the best in their country/league setup then they should first be the best in their region.

Lets say we go 14,14,14, where each team plays each other twice in a season, this makes 26 games per season from league matches. A group format would compliment this and add another 6 games to give us the reasonable figure of 32 games per season at least (plus subsequent rounds and Scottish Cup games which could also be changed to a 2 leg format).

Currently, a team in the SPL who crashes out of both cups at the first round plays 40 games per season, if they are unlucky at least one of these cup games will be in some far flung corner of the highlands on a bleak Tuesday night. In the proposed model this team will play at least 32, (plus Scottish Cup games) travel less, and benefit from larger home crowds (theoretically).

It makes more sense for the League cup to be in this format since 8 groups of 4 fits neatly with the 42 teams in our current league setup (2 leg playoffs involving the lowest ranked 20 teams from the season before would settle entry issues). It would also be a shame to lose the open draw structure of the Scottish cup. There is still however the problem of exactly how the teams would be divided, since it is hard to see where outliers such as Berwick Rangers fit snugly into a pre-defined regional setup.

Another problem concerns where exactly the lines are drawn for groupings, for example while Sevco, Celtic, Partick Thistle and Clyde seems reasonable, Hamilton, Airdrie and ourselves could be included depending on exactly where lines are drawn.

If the 4-team groups prove too difficult to define, perhaps 4 groups of 8 could be the answer. 14 League cup games added to the 26 of the League matches (plus Subsequent rounds and Scottish cup games) would remain a reasonable amount.

The whole point in this is that in order to apply the best solution to the league formatting problem, whether it be more playoffs, less teams, more teams, we are swimming against a tide when we try and work around the fact that we must have "4 old firm games" this SHOULD be a secondary concern...but the truth is that it is the primary concern, and as things stand the league structure, whatever it might be...is shoehorned to fit this requirement.

The proposals put forward i.e. 12,12,18 with leagues splitting into all types of groups, as well as the current split, are in my opinion not truly reflective of a professional league. It would do us no harm to experiment with groups and formats etc through the medium of the league cup, satisfy TV requirements and at the same time retain a solid, reliable, simple and ultimately normal League format i.e. play everybody home and away regardless of the amount of teams…easy!

I’m curious about what the popular opinion would be concerning League reconstruction…also if anyone has any intricate knowledge of how the sponsorships work for League and Cup competitions so as to test the viability of the above proposal…over to you!

Aye

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Anybody know how I move this to other footy? cheers

For what it's worth, I think your piece was well thought out and presented. Probably a lot on this forum kind of agree but it's perfectly clear now that nothing much will change in Scottish Football. In about three years time Rangers and Celtic will rule the roost. The TV authorities will be perfectly happy, Doncaster will be happy in his new position of authority, the 11-1 vote will rule and logic dictates that all twelve of the current SPL chairmen will be perfectly happy even if they don't have the balls to state it publicly. Hearts will probably be back to third in the pecking order.

All of those in authority crap themselves at the prospect of real change. The removal of Rangers from the scene for a few months gave a window of opportunity for real change but that window has closed. The survival of 11-1 demonstrates that. The authorities will tinker round the edges of the lower leagues as long as it doesn't annoy Rangers. It's all window dressing.

Who first said 'plus ca change'? Does anyone believe differently?

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Wow, you must have started typing that this morning!

I think the formation of the SPFL should be seen as a first step, rather than a final solution to Scottish footballs problem. We're now all under one organisation which will make any future changes much easier. And the introduction of the playoffs is a start to restructuring.

I think what is obvious though, is that despite what was said about Armageddon (again!), it was possible to cherry pick and the new setup should make cherry picking more possible in the future.

In terms of the league structure, I think the split has actually been a success and a lot of fans actually don't mind it at all. I think it adds to competition at the end of the season. And it's for more than just getting 4 OF games, it allows the number of games to be kept to the clubs ideal of 35-40 league games a season.

Of course having a 14 team league can also have a split, which our chairman prefers - top 6 and bottom 8. This means the bottom plays 40 and the top plays 36, however the top teams will have the (financial) advantage of having an additional OF game.

I like the idea of the sectional league cup ( which by the way, 8 groups of 4 is 32,not 42. This could be solved by having a qualifying round for the bottom 20 teams). However rather than regionalised, I would prefer it to be seeded. This way every season all clubs will have a game against every other level of Scottish football. I.e. it gives the small teams a financial boost when they play the bigger teams.

Anyway, this should probably be moved to other football. For some reason some people get upset about these type of things!

Looks like I can't move it myself...I'll need to wait on one of the Mod's to lob it into the appropriate category, I noticed about the 42 teams not fitting "exactly" with the regional groupings structure, my point was basically that we have an accurate enough number of teams to make the regional groups somewhat static from season to season (pending the outcome of playoffs for lower division sides etc) The requirements for old firm games and edinburgh derbies being satisfied was the main idea of having regional groups.

I do like the seedings idea. Top from each league, second from each league etc would work quite well, in fact I would prefer it hands down, wouldn't satisfy any of the OF derby requirements though.

Definitely a lot of problems with the proposal, since I was putting the question out there though I thought I should at least offer some sort of idea.

I disagree strongly with the split, it is a solution to a financial problem and not a solution to a football problem, would be very happy to see it go.

Edited by ss39Lavety
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My one small contribution to the debate is that I think it will be much more than a season or two before A Rangers makes it into the top division of Scottish Football.

That team is irrelevant to reorganisation. And should be discounted.

Why?

It's currently being plundered and its fans fleeced by spivs. I fear for its immediate future.

I have always believed that, with the number of followers it can generate, another The The Rangers will eventually make climb back up. I just don't think this present one is being led by people genuinely interested in the club.

I don't actually care. It's like having an interest in car crashes.

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My one small contribution to the debate is that I think it will be much more than a season or two before A Rangers makes it into the top division of Scottish Football.

That team is irrelevant to reorganisation. And should be discounted.

Why?

It's currently being plundered and its fans fleeced by spivs. I fear for its immediate future.

I have always believed that, with the number of followers it can generate, another The The Rangers will eventually make climb back up. I just don't think this present one is being led by people genuinely interested in the club.

I don't actually care. It's like having an interest in car crashes.

I would go further Bluto, Old rangers created a fan base by winning approximately one in every two trophies. After 3, 4,5,6, years of not winning and not being competitive where will that leave them. It will be a long time before then can match Celtic in a whole host of areas and in the mean time the "fans" are producing shite like this

http://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2012/12/19/celtic-fcs-9-million-hidden-debt-paying-6-in-perpetuity

I suspect there has been a real shift in power and Rangers are no longer part of an old firm but a new co in the wilderness for a long long time

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