Why Are We Getting It So Wrong?

[Desnold]

But the foreigner thing ended almost a decade ago and we are still going backwards as a nation so that can't explain it either.

Indeed, but it ran for almost two decades ie. 1986 to early 2000's. By the end of that period we had few if any Scottish stars for youngsters to want to be when they were playing three and in in the park. If you don't have that then psychologically I expect it to be difficult for young Scot's to think they can make it in the game.

When I was a boy we were all Kenny Dalglish scoring the winner at Wembley. Name me a Scot that a twelve year old can see playing now that would have that impact.

At the end of the foreign journeymen period, there has definitely been a lack of quality in Scottish players. When was the last time Scotland got to the finals of a major tournament? Who were the stars of the team? France 98, probably John Collins. He is probably the last great Scottish player and he hung his boots up a lifetime ago as far as kids are concerned.

[saints0]

Lack of hard work ,poor parenting and the knowledge that to play for money in the scottish game is a lot easier than it used to be

[pozbaird]

We could twist things around and say that as a club we were struggling with debt in a crumbling old stadium and at best could yo-yo from Div 1 to the top flight. Our players hopped in a shitty bus to drive to Renfrew or Bellahouston Park to train - dodging dug' shite and broken bottles. Campbell did his best with diners scattered about in different rooms, showing prospective signings around the 'facilities' was done through gritted teeth, and guys like Tommy Doc' were more often than not trying to sellotape bits of the old main stand together using sticky-back plastic and old cornflake boxes....

Now we are in a neat modern stadium, chosen by the Scotland U21s as their home. An award winning pitch and groundsman, a clean spacious corporate environment, a smart reception and dressing rooms. A new inflatable dome facility, our own dedicated training ground, a growing relationship with an EPL club, a trophy in the cabinet, and guys with international caps in our team, one of whom actually supports our club. We have a crop of promising youngsters about to break through, and improving talent like McGinn, McGowan and Reilly. We have won awards for our community initiatives, and are watching as other, formerly bigger clubs are wallowing up to their necks in shite.

Life ain't so bad you know.

[Reynard]

Yep that was my experience as well.

If it's still like this now then that'll undoubtedly be the problem.

My son is now playing for a boys team and the guy that runs the thing is enthusiastic and keen as f**k. But he isn't a football coach and the kids are not being taught the basic stuff. At the age my boy is at, this is what they need to be doing, get technique taught to them all, they need NO fitness work at that age, fitness is utterly irrelevant at that age. I don't REALLY care as my son has all the grace and co-cordination of an octopus falling out a tree but there are a few of the kids that look like they could be ok, and THEY will be let down due to shit coaching.

[barney]

it could well be that our footballers are over paid, unprofessional slobs who don't take their profession seriously enough?

[Reynard]

it could well be that our footballers are over paid, unprofessional slobs who don't take their profession seriously enough?

No, it's not that. They are far fitter nowadays than they were back when we were last producing decent players. I think they do take their profession seriously as there is serious money to be made now. I just don't think they are very good. There are very few slobs in the professional game at any level these days, you just dont get away with it.

[E=Mc2]

This should be in "other football" .

Our set up will produce in the years to come.

[barney]

No, it's not that. They are far fitter nowadays than they were back when we were last producing decent players. I think they do take their profession seriously as there is serious money to be made now. I just don't think they are very good. There are very few slobs in the professional game at any level these days, you just dont get away with it.

basic ball control is a definite problem.

[oaksoft]

Indeed, but it ran for almost two decades ie. 1986 to early 2000's. By the end of that period we had few if any Scottish stars for youngsters to want to be when they were playing three and in in the park. If you don't have that then psychologically I expect it to be difficult for young Scot's to think they can make it in the game.

When I was a boy we were all Kenny Dalglish scoring the winner at Wembley. Name me a Scot that a twelve year old can see playing now that would have that impact.

I can't name you a Scot - that's the problem.

Kids nowadays are idolising Rooney and Messi.

The nationality of their hero is less relevant TBH as long as those players provide inspiration but you make a good point about whether kids believe that a Scot can succeed like Messi.

I agree about John Collins. Probably was our last truly world class player.

[saints0]

We could twist things around and say that as a club we were struggling with debt in a crumbling old stadium and at best could yo-yo from Div 1 to the top flight. Our players hopped in a shitty bus to drive to Renfrew or Bellahouston Park to train - dodging dug' shite and broken bottles. Campbell did his best with diners scattered about in different rooms, showing prospective signings around the 'facilities' was done through gritted teeth, and guys like Tommy Doc' were more often than not trying to sellotape bits of the old main stand together using sticky-back plastic and old cornflake boxes....

Now we are in a neat modern stadium, chosen by the Scotland U21s as their home. An award winning pitch and groundsman, a clean spacious corporate environment, a smart reception and dressing rooms. A new inflatable dome facility, our own dedicated training ground, a growing relationship with an EPL club, a trophy in the cabinet, and guys with international caps in our team, one of whom actually supports our club. We have a crop of promising youngsters about to break through, and improving talent like McGinn, McGowan and Reilly. We have won awards for our community initiatives, and are watching as other, formerly bigger clubs are wallowing up to their necks in shite.

Life ain't so bad you know.

We do not have a crop of promising youngsters about to break through,we have a crop of youngsters who are probably going to get a game because its cheaper than buying players and Danny feels he can get away with playing them without too much criticism because they are young and therefore "promising".Formally bigger clubs ARE wallowing up to their necks in shite but will soon be signing better players than we do , offering better wages,and finishing higher in the league.We seem to do most things off field with dignity,integrity and a real enthusiasm,one day our ship will come in,it has to

[pozbaird]

We do not have a crop of promising youngsters about to break through,we have a crop of youngsters who are probably going to get a game because its cheaper than buying players and Danny feels he can get away with playing them without too much criticism because they are young and therefore "promising".Formally bigger clubs ARE wallowing up to their necks in shite but will soon be signing better players than we do , offering better wages,and finishing higher in the league.We seem to do most things off field with dignity,integrity and a real enthusiasm,one day our ship will come in,it has to

Any chance of doing me a favour? Stop posting complete and utter nonsensical fcuking bollocks every time you choose to batter your keyboard with a big plastic mallet?

[saints0]

Any chance of doing me a favour? Stop posting complete and utter nonsensical fcuking bollocks every time you choose to batter your keyboard with a big plastic mal

No

[oaksoft]

We do not have a crop of promising youngsters about to break through,we have a crop of youngsters who are probably going to get a game because its cheaper than buying players and Danny feels he can get away with playing them without too much criticism because they are young and therefore "promising".Formally bigger clubs ARE wallowing up to their necks in shite but will soon be signing better players than we do , offering better wages,and finishing higher in the league.We seem to do most things off field with dignity,integrity and a real enthusiasm,one day our ship will come in,it has to

Well at least we know you aren't a Stuart Dickson alias.

You're still a miserable troll though. Is your football team's forum so boring that you have to invade ours?

[reborn saint]

To be honest there are more non Saints on here than ever before.......Too many other forums to debate and this one will die a death due to the ease of Instigators to gain access but ho hum such is the changing social media.

[Leicester Saint]

We could twist things around and say that as a club we were struggling with debt in a crumbling old stadium and at best could yo-yo from Div 1 to the top flight. Our players hopped in a shitty bus to drive to Renfrew or Bellahouston Park to train - dodging dug' shite and broken bottles. Campbell did his best with diners scattered about in different rooms, showing prospective signings around the 'facilities' was done through gritted teeth, and guys like Tommy Doc' were more often than not trying to sellotape bits of the old main stand together using sticky-back plastic and old cornflake boxes....

Now we are in a neat modern stadium, chosen by the Scotland U21s as their home. An award winning pitch and groundsman, a clean spacious corporate environment, a smart reception and dressing rooms. A new inflatable dome facility, our own dedicated training ground, a growing relationship with an EPL club, a trophy in the cabinet, and guys with international caps in our team, one of whom actually supports our club. We have a crop of promising youngsters about to break through, and improving talent like McGinn, McGowan and Reilly. We have won awards for our community initiatives, and are watching as other, formerly bigger clubs are wallowing up to their necks in shite.

Life ain't so bad you know.

AND Elfsborg have never beaten us!

[saints0]

Well at least we know you aren't a Stuart Dickson alias.

You're still a miserable troll though. Is your football team's forum so boring that you have to invade ours?

Miserable ?? ok you have me on that one, but its an easy and cheap shot to accuse fans of not being fans.I know its hard to accept but i have no intention of toeing the party line just because you think i should,now move along

[saints0]

To be honest there are more non Saints on here than ever before.......Too many other forums to debate and this one will die a death due to the ease of Instigators to gain access but ho hum such is the changing social media.

What constitutes a non saints fan in your expert opinion ? Someone who states the FACT that mark mccausland isnt very good ?

[reborn saint]

What constitutes a non saints fan in your expert opinion ? Someone who states the FACT that mark mccausland isnt very good ?

300 members on line and only 10 talk.......You are not a St Mirren fan and there are many more like you......This used to be a good forum but as I note many have left for good reasons......Bye Bye

[saints0]

A while ago there was a club where dissenting voices were accused of being fakes and not real supporters,it was called the nazi party

[saints0]

300 members on line and only 10 talk.......You are not a St Mirren fan and there are many more like you......This used to be a good forum but as I note many have left for good reasons......Bye Bye

Yes,bye mate 11.45pm,your medication is due

[Alba]

A while ago there was a club where dissenting voices were accused of being fakes and not real supporters,it was called the nazi party

Great point mate. Really great point and well made too.

[Barney63]

But the foreigner thing ended almost a decade ago and we are still going backwards as a nation so that can't explain it either.

I'd agree. Just to draw from my experience in Sweden you'll see a fairly large proportion of foreign imports there over the last decade or so and the standard has improved. It's a grass roots thing. But here's an odd thing when I first moved here (near Gothenburg) and thought I could still play 5-a-side it just wasn't possible as it's completely non existent to the extent none of the Swedish blokes /kids I spoke to had heard of the idea, never mind played it. Kickabouts take place on full size pitches and tend to be 11 a side only.

[The Original 59er]

Oaksoft, like it or not Saints0, made a point which I think has been aired a few times on this forum, namely:

DL has basically been told there is little or no money available to buy in new players so we have ditched a few to release some wages and we have picked up a couple of reasonable-looking players so far. At this stage, we are looking at a very thin squad.

Other than that he is going to rely on the youngsters coming through and that is fact - whether they are good enough overall is going to be the question - yes McGinn looks the part, but so did Kenny McLean. Reilly looks reasonable, but is young and if he is being thought of a striking partner to ST, give me Concalves every day.

I agree with Pozbaird's overall post - things are relatively healthy in terms of how the club is run - whether we have the quality of players capable of stepping up from underage football to the rigours of the Scottish Premier League is questionable and if DL is depending on that, as this and future season's approach, then we are in for some really bumpy rides.

[windae cleaner]

The whole set up of sport in general is a lot more structured in the likes of Sweden. There is a place for folk to participate even if they are f**king pish at whatever they are doing. The football clubs are more like community sports hubs with lots of different things going on, maw paw and the weans can pitch up and all f**k off and do whatever they want to do.

I think there is a real lack of quality coaching for football and alhough its still not fantastic I think in recent times there has been a bit more of an effort, but its still not good enough.

I played cricket to a decent level and as a kid the coaching was absolutely brilliant. I was taught every single aspect of the game, and once it was decided that I wasn't too bad, I was taken away and coached fairly intensively to hone whatever skills were there.

I also played football. Coaching consisted of running around the track, doing a bit of circuit work and then playing bounce games. Was never taught how to header. Never taught how to tackle, pass, trap a ball, was never taught the tactical side of things or the finer points of the game. Was basically flung a ball and told to play some football.

Why is Scotland shite at cricket?

You're right about our coaching in days gone by but we still produced far better players than we are getting now.

My take on it is patience but having scrapping reserve leagues too many players aren't getting developed.

Up here it seems to be if you're aren't ready by 19 forget it.

Someone made a good point about Reilly how lightweight he looks and should be bulking up.

As someone rightly pointed out his body is still growing and developing.

I will take the most debated player on here for an example Cheesy.

He was moved on from here and brought back and truth be told i didn't rate him

But he has been allowed to develop and there's a big improvement in his game.

Too many are getting released at 19 and within a year are out of the game as they have had to find a career outside football

Little wonder we aren't producing players when the vast majority are getting released when their bodies are still growing

[TediousTom]

I just had a wiki look at Elfsborg's stadium, where Celtic will be playing next week. it is right next door to the old stadium where St Mirren played their first ever European tie in September 1980. How things have changed.

In 1980, Their stadium, although tidy, was owned by the local council and doubled as an athletics arena, it still stands as part of the same complex. It held far fewer than Love st and lacked the atmosphere of our old ground. they now have a grand-looking 14500 capacity stadium with state of the art synthetic turf and 2 big stands

The elfsborg side couldn't live with our quality back then, their players were mostly part time and lacked fitness (though not heart). These days, they are champions-league and Europa league regulars (at least in qualifying), where we havent featured for decades. our lovely old ground had to be raised to pay for a new one, they kept theirs and with it a link to their history. Elfsborg also seem to regularly enjoy 10,000 plus crowds and have given themselves the luxury of extra capacity for big games, we have gone for the option of a stadium that disadvantages home fans when a large away support comes along. They seem to hold a pretty prominent position in Sweden and regularly usurp the bigger teams from Stockholm and Gothenburg. the opposite is true for us, although the cup win may signal a return to us being cup contenders for the near future. Apparently, they also make a decent skin from the earnings from the stadium, I understand that we struggle to make any money outside of match days.

Back then, we scoffed at scandinavian teams, now we envy them. i remember talking to a guy who toured in a youth team in denmark in the 70s, he told us that the facilities were outstanding. We all laughed, after all, what had the danes done for soccer up until that point?

i think these things show how we have deteriorated in so many ways over the last 30 years or so in Scotland. How can we as a club and scotland as a nation have continued to let football decline so far in the last 3 decades?

Now "Our Ken" this may be beyond you but judging from the quality of the thread that you have started I would wager that not much in a footballing sense is.

At the imaginary and much fabled Black & White Army annual awards dinner I would very much like to nominate this very thread for the category of

"Thread of the year".

This is simply the most important subject in modern Scottish football and topics raised in this the "thread of the year" hilight the very issues that the Scottish Football Association along with the Scottish Amateur Football Association should be identifying and attempting to address.

Football in many countries has improved (and that is a good thing) but unfortunately our little but great nation has somewhat stood still or even wandered backwards. Great read this thread, think I shall read it again, read it again indeed!