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Zero Hour Contracts


linwood buddie

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There is indeed no holiday or sick pay. It is an awful situation to be in, I have worked under these contracts in the past, it's what we used to call 'casual hours' it is common in the hospitality industry, which is where i had my first experience of it while at Uni, it suited me as a student though. I also have had experience of it in the IT industry where I was a sub-contractor on this type of contract, it's no way to live.

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they are an evil invention, but no doubt Stu Dicky will be along soon to tell us they are a worthwhile component in a sound business strategy.

No holiday or sick pay is one thing, however what about training & development or health and safety? These employers expect the state to support poor people just enough for them to survive, but only if they take on these horrendous job offers. In effect, taxpayers are subsidising the profits of companies who employ through these contracts.

We are finally getting Thatcher's vision. People unable to secure mortgages or loans, forced to go to local authorities who use our tax pounds to pay tory private landlords exorbitant rents for hovels. They are here just to pick up the menial tasks and consume with only the bare minimum of state aid. Big society my arse

this country should hang it's head in shame

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I worked in retail for 5 years while a student and was on a 5 hour contract however there were others who were on 0 hour contracts. The downsides are obvious but there was good points too. I would work at least 16 hours a week but it meant if I need time off for exams I could just choose to only work my contract hours (or 0 hours for others). It also allowed me to work more than one job in the summer so it can be good as long the people aren't being exploited, it was a relatively small store I worked in so I was able to arrange things with my manager.

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This is a classic case of the sort of abuse which happens when you allow companies complete freedom to treat workers how they like.

Zero hour contracts are a clear attempt to get around the agency worker regulations.

Workers are not objects to be used as pawns for companies to avoid taxes and responsibilities.

They are human beings and must be treated as such.

It's right up there with the new apprenticeships which are being abused as sources of cheap or free labour.

It's very frustrating to see good ideas to help all sorts of people back into work being deliberately abused by employers.

We need to stop blaming governments for writing "shit laws full of loopholes" and instead develop a set of "cultural laws" where clear attempts to defeat the spirit of a law are clamped down on in the courts.

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My son has a zero hour contract at Sports Direct while he works his way through university and it suits him. He's got no intention of pursuing a career at Sports Direct and he has two other jobs that pay him more per hour so he likes the fact that he can accept or reject shifts as and when it suits him. It's's a two way street. He does get staff benefits like the staff discount and he has earned sales bonuses and taken part in sales incentives. It's not the best job in the world but he - like most of his colleagues who are on similar contracts - are working there for money for the little extras in life. Someone who is supporting a family would most likely refuse to work on those kinds of contracts.

I don't have a problem with zero hour contracts so long as the employer doesn't try to bully the staff member into accepting shifts when the staff member doesn't want to work them, and so long as the company realise that along with no holiday entitlement comes the fact that the staff member may opt to take a holiday by refusing any shift offered to them.

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I have a couple of relief staff on a zero hours contract, simply as back up in an emergency.

They get the same rate as regular staff, and pro-rata holiday pay based on hours actually worked.

Both have jobs elsewhere and are happy to take an odd shift here and there.

Surely that is better than having to use an agency and end up with unknown quantities who have no knowledge of the people they are caring for?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Black & White Army mobile app

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they are an evil invention, but no doubt Stu Dicky will be along soon to tell us they are a worthwhile component in a sound business strategy.

No holiday or sick pay is one thing, however what about training & development or health and safety? These employers expect the state to support poor people just enough for them to survive, but only if they take on these horrendous job offers. In effect, taxpayers are subsidising the profits of companies who employ through these contracts.

We are finally getting Thatcher's vision. People unable to secure mortgages or loans, forced to go to local authorities who use our tax pounds to pay tory private landlords exorbitant rents for hovels. They are here just to pick up the menial tasks and consume with only the bare minimum of state aid. Big society my arse

this country should hang it's head in shame

My son has a zero hour contract at Sports Direct while he works his way through university and it suits him. He's got no intention of pursuing a career at Sports Direct and he has two other jobs that pay him more per hour so he likes the fact that he can accept or reject shifts as and when it suits him. It's's a two way street. He does get staff benefits like the staff discount and he has earned sales bonuses and taken part in sales incentives. It's not the best job in the world but he - like most of his colleagues who are on similar contracts - are working there for money for the little extras in life. Someone who is supporting a family would most likely refuse to work on those kinds of contracts.

I don't have a problem with zero hour contracts so long as the employer doesn't try to bully the staff member into accepting shifts when the staff member doesn't want to work them, and so long as the company realise that along with no holiday entitlement comes the fact that the staff member may opt to take a holiday by refusing any shift offered to them.

Fancy giving me the lottery numbers lol.gif

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I suppose Zero Hours contract suits certain people, but a great deal of people, some with families, want security to be able to plan ahead. Under zero hours, this can be an excuse to bully people into working for them when it suits them. and I would say there are permanent jobs for them. It really is another way of big companies manoeuvring the system to suit them, where they don't have to pay NI, holiday pay, or sickness benefit. NI was brought in to service the Health service and now that is being abused by these firms. Unfortunately, Governments tend to accept big businesses decisions on their workforce, rather than challenging them

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My son has a zero hour contract at Sports Direct while he works his way through university and it suits him. He's got no intention of pursuing a career at Sports Direct and he has two other jobs that pay him more per hour so he likes the fact that he can accept or reject shifts as and when it suits him. It's's a two way street. He does get staff benefits like the staff discount and he has earned sales bonuses and taken part in sales incentives. It's not the best job in the world but he - like most of his colleagues who are on similar contracts - are working there for money for the little extras in life. Someone who is supporting a family would most likely refuse to work on those kinds of contracts.

That last sentence betrays yet again your complete lack of understanding of the problems many people face in real life.

In your wee world, everyone has a choice in these matters.

According to the report today nearly 1 MILLION people are stuck on these contracts.

Not all of those can be students as we don't have anywhere near that number of students in the country.

If those estimated figures are remotely correct it is, on the face of it, good evidence that the scheme is being abused and it needs urgent investigation.

BTW people with families will take ANYTHING on offer if the alternative is to sit at home and take mindless abuse from people like you about how they are simply shirkers. This means many are forced into work which comes with no employment rights at all.

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Do people realise that since 29th July it will also cost you a fee to lodge an employment tribunal claim and also another fee if you require a hearing? You can be entitled to remission on the fees but it will put people off claiming.

Yep. I heard this too.

Unsure how I feel TBH but £1200 is taking the piss.

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Yep. I heard this too.

Unsure how I feel TBH but £1200 is taking the piss.

The problem is this fee no doubt has come from a minority of people who made spurious claims.

I have a couple of relief staff on a zero hours contract, simply as back up in an emergency.

They get the same rate as regular staff, and pro-rata holiday pay based on hours actually worked.

Both have jobs elsewhere and are happy to take an odd shift here and there.

Surely that is better than having to use an agency and end up with unknown quantities who have no knowledge of the people they are caring for?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Black & White Army mobile app

See this is where zero hours contracts make sense, but to give them to the majority of staff for a retail industry is terrible practise.

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I have a couple of relief staff on a zero hours contract, simply as back up in an emergency.

They get the same rate as regular staff, and pro-rata holiday pay based on hours actually worked.

Both have jobs elsewhere and are happy to take an odd shift here and there.

Surely that is better than having to use an agency and end up with unknown quantities who have no knowledge of the people they are caring for?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Black & White Army mobile app

Absolutely Brian. This is an issue that's being trumped up by an agenda driven left wing media and by the trade unions who are as outdated, irrelevant and as out of touch as velociraptors from the Jurassic period.

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I suppose Zero Hours contract suits certain people, but a great deal of people, some with families, want security to be able to plan ahead. Under zero hours, this can be an excuse to bully people into working for them when it suits them. and I would say there are permanent jobs for them. It really is another way of big companies manoeuvring the system to suit them, where they don't have to pay NI, holiday pay, or sickness benefit. NI was brought in to service the Health service and now that is being abused by these firms. Unfortunately, Governments tend to accept big businesses decisions on their workforce, rather than challenging them

Why would someone who wants security accept a zero hour contract? Why come off benefits when there is no guarantee or hours or pay?

I would venture that the majority of people on zero hour contracts are students, young school leavers, or those working second or third jobs to boost their income. Certainly at the store my eldest son works at that is exactly the profile of all of the staff on those contracts.

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That last sentence betrays yet again your complete lack of understanding of the problems many people face in real life.

In your wee world, everyone has a choice in these matters.

According to the report today nearly 1 MILLION people are stuck on these contracts.

Not all of those can be students as we don't have anywhere near that number of students in the country.

If those estimated figures are remotely correct it is, on the face of it, good evidence that the scheme is being abused and it needs urgent investigation.

BTW people with families will take ANYTHING on offer if the alternative is to sit at home and take mindless abuse from people like you about how they are simply shirkers. This means many are forced into work which comes with no employment rights at all.

I checked with my son after I posted. It transpires that each of his jobs is on a zero hour contract. So does he count as 3 of those 1m people?

It suits him. He earns £13 per hour as an athletics coach for NLC. They employ him when they have an event, or when they want to run specialist or introductory athletics courses. He will work in schools, in sports centres and at athletic tracks around the region as and when required. He earns £8 per hour working as a catering supervisor at Fir Park managing a team working in the Davie Cooper Stand selling pies. And he works at Sports Direct for just above the minimum wage.

Because he is on a zero hour contract at each of those places he can refuse shifts if he needs additional time to study for an assignment, or for an exam. He can refuse shifts so he can do extra athletics training before a race meeting. He can refuse shifts so he can compete in race meetings, He can refuse shifts if he wants to come on a family holiday - as he has done in the past when going to Hawaii, Nice and to Orlando or when he flew out to see his long term girlfriend as she emigrated to and then returned home from Canada. The zero hour contracts offer him flexibility and the opportunity to maximise his earnings by prioritising based on who pays the greater hourly rate.

I'd venture that the majority of the supposed 1m people are just like my son, working second jobs, or students working in between studies to gain work experience and to earn a little bit of money. The contracts will suit them just as much as it suits their employer.

If I can show the alternative argument, my girlfriends daughter works in Asda and has a seven hours per week contract. She is guaranteed work every Sunday. That's great, except she has to work those shifts regardless of the pressure of her studies, and regardless of her social life and she finds it difficult to impossible to get time off for family holidays. She also is able to apply for "overtime" at standard rate and that overtime can be cancelled up to one hour before the start of her shift if the store isn't meeting it's sales targets for the week - and as has happened on many occasions she's travelled into work only to be told when she arrives that she isn't needed. She then gets paid 1 hours wages and goes home. To me it looks like the zero hour contract is more beneficial.

Edited by Stuart Dickson
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It's simply the economic reality of the world we live in just now.

If there is a labour shortage, you get good working conditions. If there is a labour surplus - as there is now - you get poor working conditions. Especially for low paid unskilled work.

Why is that? Because there's 20 people for every 1 of these jobs. Employers will simply say if you don't like it, leave, we can replace you instantly. It's not in the employers interest to provide favourable conditions to unskilled workers because it costs them money.

Until the economy improves conditions for workers will only get worse.

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saddest site of the day, two able bodied men, obvious experienced workers, walking along Victoria rd with Skill Seekers sweatshirts on, dealing with litter, etc

Transferrable skills my arse

Saddest sight? Sadder would be the same guys sitting at home unwilling to have a go.

Why are they "obvious experienced workers"? Sounds to me like their skills are obsolete and they need to retrain.

That's not uncommon.

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I'd venture that the majority of the supposed 1m people are just like my son, working second jobs, or students working in between studies to gain work experience and to earn a little bit of money. The contracts will suit them just as much as it suits their employer.

If I can show the alternative argument, my girlfriends daughter works in Asda and has a seven hours per week contract. She is guaranteed work every Sunday. That's great, except she has to work those shifts regardless of the pressure of her studies, and regardless of her social life and she finds it difficult to impossible to get time off for family holidays. She also is able to apply for "overtime" at standard rate and that overtime can be cancelled up to one hour before the start of her shift if the store isn't meeting it's sales targets for the week - and as has happened on many occasions she's travelled into work only to be told when she arrives that she isn't needed. She then gets paid 1 hours wages and goes home. To me it looks like the zero hour contract is more beneficial.

How can I make this simple for you?

We do NOT have 1 million students on this country.

Many of that number support families.

I've already explained why a person supporting a family would take a zero hours contract.

Your talk about refusing shifts is also cloud cuckoo land.

In many industries as pointed out above, refusing a shift means you can be removed from the list of staff and not offered further work.

Other problems include people turning up for a shift and then finding the company has changed it's mind.

As for your son being "suited" to this type of work? Come back when he's getting no hours offered, earning nothing and being continually messed around as I've described above and I guarantee he won't be singing its benefits from the rooftops.

Come back when he's had to tolerate that for 3 months and tell us how great it is.

As for the bit I've highlighted in your post? As I've already explained this is a very common occurrence in zero hour contracts.

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