shull Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 I watched the first one of the new series and it was thoroughly enjoyable. The last few years it had become stale but with the introduction of two new dragons it has certainly improved. Although, could do without watching would be entrepreneurs going up and down in the Lift to and from the Den. Waste of bloody good viewing time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 I watched the first one of the new series and it was thoroughly enjoyable. The last few years it had become stale but with the introduction of two new dragons it has certainly improved. Although, could do without watching would be entrepreneurs going up and down in the Lift to and from the Den. Waste of bloody good viewing time. Agreed Shull. Its one of my favourite programmes. I saw Grumpy Woman say on a daytime TV show that the lift thing was added to increase the suspense but I don't think it works. I also thought in the last programme that Peter Jones gave money to that guy just because he cried which makes an utter nonsense of the programme. Still good to have it on telly though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 (edited) I watched the first one of the new series and it was thoroughly enjoyable. The last few years it had become stale but with the introduction of two new dragons it has certainly improved. Although, could do without watching would be entrepreneurs going up and down in the Lift to and from the Den. Waste of bloody good viewing time. Used to love this when I used to watch TV but I'm not comfortable with the concept. The piles of money sitting on the tables is just plain cringeworthy. These "dragons" are hero worshipped as though the single minded pursuit of money for the sake of acquiring money was the only goal worth having in life. It's obscene and just plain wrong. That hero worshipping is backed up by a programme model which still pokes fun at "no hopers" in much the same way as X factor. Poking fun at people who are prepared to have a go even if they fail is weird and wrong. It reinforces the Scottish Disease of wanting people put in their place rather than aspiring people to improve their own lives. All of these programmes are just dumbed down to appeal to the masses. That's probably my biggest objection. I'll start watching TV again when they stop making programmes which treat viewers as though they have the combined IQ of a gerbil. BTW if someone can explain why every news item now has a reporter walking towards camera whilst doing that weird hands outstretched thing every 4 seconds I'd be very grateful. Seriously what the hell is that? Put your hands down man! I can easily picture what you are talking about without you resorting to that bizzarre OCD style "holding a melon" distracting nonsense. Thanks for the thread shull. I feel better for venting. Edited August 15, 2013 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted August 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 Yir welcome Oaky ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 Used to love this when I used to watch TV but I'm not comfortable with the concept. The piles of money sitting on the tables is just plain cringeworthy. These "dragons" are hero worshipped as though the single minded pursuit of money for the sake of acquiring money was the only goal worth having in life. It's obscene and just plain wrong. That hero worshipping is backed up by a programme model which still pokes fun at "no hopers" in much the same way as X factor. Poking fun at people who are prepared to have a go even if they fail is weird and wrong. It reinforces the Scottish Disease of wanting people put in their place rather than aspiring people to improve their own lives. All of these programmes are just dumbed down to appeal to the masses. That's probably my biggest objection. I'll start watching TV again when they stop making programmes which treat viewers as though they have the combined IQ of a gerbil. BTW if someone can explain why every news item now has a reporter walking towards camera whilst doing that weird hands outstretched thing every 4 seconds I'd be very grateful. Seriously what the hell is that? Put your hands down man! I can easily picture what you are talking about without you resorting to that bizzarre OCD style "holding a melon" distracting nonsense. Thanks for the thread shull. I feel better for venting. Hmmm, if you don't watch telly how do you know what reporters are doing in every news item... ;rolleye: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 He sees it on the 12 tv's you have in every room while he's spying on you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Hmmm, if you don't watch telly how do you know what reporters are doing in every news item... ;rolleye: I know you are old and wrinkly and are about as cool as a nylon sock but those crafty kids at the BBC have invented this online thingumajig called iPlayer. They also have recorded news items on the front page of their website. None of which require a TV licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Used to love this when I used to watch TV but I'm not comfortable with the concept. The piles of money sitting on the tables is just plain cringeworthy. These "dragons" are hero worshipped as though the single minded pursuit of money for the sake of acquiring money was the only goal worth having in life. It's obscene and just plain wrong. That hero worshipping is backed up by a programme model which still pokes fun at "no hopers" in much the same way as X factor. Your looking in to the ethos of the programme in too much detail. The programme is about would be "business angels" looking for nothing other than a public profile. Before this programme who would have ever heard of or cared about Peter Jones or Duncan Banantyne. They in my opinion are similar to Lord Sugar and have lost their credibility in the pursuit of fame. I prefer real entrepreneurs like Chris Gorman who like to live a quiet life and do not try to put themselves in the limelight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Your looking in to the ethos of the programme in too much detail. The programme is about would be "business angels" looking for nothing other than a public profile. Before this programme who would have ever heard of or cared about Peter Jones or Duncan Banantyne. They in my opinion are similar to Lord Sugar and have lost their credibility in the pursuit of fame. I prefer real entrepreneurs like Chris Gorman who like to live a quiet life and do not try to put themselves in the limelight. I agree with virtually all of that bar the first sentence. They are doing all of what you describe AND in doing so are presenting and deliberately humiliating a select group of "no hopers" as fodder for the sheep who watch it (who - rather disgustingly - seem to enjoy this sort of entertainment). If people are being honest, the majority watch programmes like this to get a cheap laugh at the delusional and the hopeless rather than the stronger candidates. This "Jeremy Kyle-ing" of TV is a rife in the media. Interestingly the book by Jon Ronson - The Psycopath Test - has an interview with someone involved in booking people for these types of show. To save you a read, they deliberately look for the right kind of nutter to put into the show for entertainment purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmc Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I know you are old and wrinkly and are about as cool as a nylon sock but those crafty kids at the BBC have invented this online thingumajig called iPlayer. They also have recorded news items on the front page of their website. None of which require a TV licence. Think you may be wrong there, pretty sure you do require a licence to view iPlayer ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 You don't, dmc, provided you only ever watch catch-up it's not required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Here's the link: http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/technology--devices-and-online-top8/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmc Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Here's the link: http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/technology--devices-and-online-top8/ I hate being wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I agree with virtually all of that bar the first sentence. They are doing all of what you describe AND in doing so are presenting and deliberately humiliating a select group of "no hopers" as fodder for the sheep who watch it (who - rather disgustingly - seem to enjoy this sort of entertainment). If people are being honest, the majority watch programmes like this to get a cheap laugh at the delusional and the hopeless rather than the stronger candidates. This "Jeremy Kyle-ing" of TV is a rife in the media. Interestingly the book by Jon Ronson - The Psycopath Test - has an interview with someone involved in booking people for these types of show. To save you a read, they deliberately look for the right kind of nutter to put into the show for entertainment purposes. I must be in a minority then cause I actually enjoy the programme most when someone presents a really good idea and presents it well. For example anyone who has ever known a child would have known that the Trunky was going to sell millions - but not one Dragon bought into it cause the daft wee ex Football Chairman managed to break a plastic clip on the prototype. This weeks shows highlight for me was that the Dragons deemed Beef Jerky worth of investment despite the mad cap entrepreneur explaining that he planned to set up mass production of his product with their £37,500 investment, whilst telling another couple who were in looking for money to get their food product to market that they would need £millions to get into production. The bonkers Dragons also managed to invest in what was basically a baby mat off a travel bag as something that keeps dog shite off your hands when doing press ups in the local park. Forget laughing at the people coming in - the entertainment value is in seeing the Dragons fail completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmc Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I must be in a minority then cause I actually enjoy the programme most when someone presents a really good idea and presents it well. For example anyone who has ever known a child would have known that the Trunky was going to sell millions - but not one Dragon bought into it cause the daft wee ex Football Chairman managed to break a plastic clip on the prototype. This weeks shows highlight for me was that the Dragons deemed Beef Jerky worth of investment despite the mad cap entrepreneur explaining that he planned to set up mass production of his product with their £37,500 investment, whilst telling another couple who were in looking for money to get their food product to market that they would need £millions to get into production. The bonkers Dragons also managed to invest in what was basically a baby mat off a travel bag as something that keeps dog shite off your hands when doing press ups in the local park. Forget laughing at the people coming in - the entertainment value is in seeing the Dragons fail completely. Aye, that's why they're all skint, ya bellend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted August 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 And i would love to know the Job Description for a Climate Change Manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I hate being wrong Surely you're getting used to it by now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 And i would love to know the Job Description for a Climate Change Manager Well you can do a degree in it for a start http://www.bbk.ac.uk/study/2013/postgraduate/programmes/TMSCLIMC_C There are some compulsory parts to the course. Here's an extract:- "In the compulsory programme, you will gain an informed understanding of the key issues in the 3 main areas of science, policy and business, by engaging with academic, professional and popular literature." Translation - "You'll read newspapers about it". This is the sort of nonsense degree our kids should be beaten with a wet slipper for suggesting they'd like to study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Well you can do a degree in it for a start http://www.bbk.ac.uk/study/2013/postgraduate/programmes/TMSCLIMC_C There are some compulsory parts to the course. Here's an extract:- "In the compulsory programme, you will gain an informed understanding of the key issues in the 3 main areas of science, policy and business, by engaging with academic, professional and popular literature." Translation - "You'll read newspapers about it". This is the sort of nonsense degree our kids should be beaten with a wet slipper for suggesting they'd like to study. Absolutely - and your point is backed up by the fact that her and her brain dead business partner hadn't figured out that before asking for investment it might have been an idea to show enough belief in yourself and your business idea to have been prepared to work in your own business on a full time basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) Aye, that's why they're all skint, ya bellend! I can always rely on the daft f**k from Greenock!!! DMC, let me relay a story to you from my apprenticeship days. In my third year the company I had been placed with by the EITB went into administration and it was purchased by a company from Troon. They moved everyone and everything from our fabrication shop in East Kilbride down to their fab shop near the harbour and when I moved the Quality Manager requested that I work with him for a few months to develop my understanding of the business. Working in the offices was superb. I was 18 years old and as the tough, rugged, non office type person I was getting plenty of attention from the ladies. One of my favourites happened to be the girl who was the owner's secretary and we used to go out regularly at lunch breaks for a meal or for a drink or two before going back to finish our shifts. It was widely known that the owner liked his horses - he owned four that ran out of the Wilson stables in Ayr - and one particular day my friend was asked by him if she would mind placing a bet on for him at the bookmakers before we went for our lunch. She agreed and was then handed £1,000 to go bet on the owners horse who was running in one of the early races that day. She told me about it and I decided that if the owner was that serious about his own horses prospects i'd be a fool not to back it so I emptied my back account where i had two weeks wages saved up (£72 in total) and I put it all on this horse. The horse came in last. Disgusted I told some of my pals on the shop floor about my misfortune and one of them put his arm round me and said that in future what I was to remember that for the owner that £1,000 was probably the equivalent of me buying a can of cola out of the vending machine, whilst for me £72.00 was pretty much everything I owned at that time. The point being that it's all relative. Now to bring it back to Dragons Den, each one of these Dragons have made the vast majority of their funds from their own businesses and a £100k punt on some bizarre business plan is no more than the equivalent of my old boss putting £1000 his own horse. And just like with my old boss their record of picking winners really isn't the best. Edited August 21, 2013 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Aye, that's why they're all skint, ya bellend! I think you'll find that behind each of these business people lies a vast string of failed enterprises, bankruptcy, redundancies and investments. Most of what they have done will have failed disastrously. What sets these people apart is their willingness to risk their own and other people's money and their resilience to failure. In many ways, they are no different from your average gambler down at Ladbrokes. They are just gambling on different things. You also have to understand that not one of these people does any actual work at all. They employ thousands to do that for them. Their job is to take the strategic risks and gambles which make them rich if they work and see their employees on the dole if they don't. Their obsession with money means they have sacrificed virtually everything in the pursuit of even more piles of cash and that includes their families. These are not happy people. Either way we really ought not to be hero worshipping them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I think you'll find that behind each of these business people lies a vast string of failed enterprises, bankruptcy, redundancies and investments. Most of what they have done will have failed disastrously. What sets these people apart is their willingness to risk their own and other people's money and their resilience to failure. In many ways, they are no different from your average gambler down at Ladbrokes. They are just gambling on different things. You also have to understand that not one of these people does any actual work at all. They employ thousands to do that for them. Their job is to take the strategic risks and gambles which make them rich if they work and see their employees on the dole if they don't. Their obsession with money means they have sacrificed virtually everything in the pursuit of even more piles of cash and that includes their families. These are not happy people. Either way we really ought not to be hero worshipping them. Who is hero worshipping them though? When there is a serious news article about business the Dragons aren't invited guests and on the occasion they do try to give business advice it's usually cringe worthy, like when ITV tried to get Deborah Meaden to give business advice to the owners of the Pleasure Beach at Blackpool. The programme clearly highlights that the Dragons get it wrong. On the show they've backed a long string of losers and failed to pick up on several £multi million companies who have since gone global - Trunky being one of several classic examples. This is as much a part of the entertainment as seeing some sweaty loser stumble over his prepared script before trying to boil an egg in a prototype that doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 It's just another Programme that amuses and entertains me after i've had a long day at work. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a serious documentary. I enjoy Dragons Den. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Who is hero worshipping them though? When there is a serious news article about business the Dragons aren't invited guests and on the occasion they do try to give business advice it's usually cringe worthy, like when ITV tried to get Deborah Meaden to give business advice to the owners of the Pleasure Beach at Blackpool. The programme clearly highlights that the Dragons get it wrong. On the show they've backed a long string of losers and failed to pick up on several £multi million companies who have since gone global - Trunky being one of several classic examples. This is as much a part of the entertainment as seeing some sweaty loser stumble over his prepared script before trying to boil an egg in a prototype that doesn't work. My personal favourite was when one of them (James something? the guy with the beard) proclaimed to the press that we should never help our children out. That it would damage them. Articles were written. Comment sought. A day later it emerged that his companies have hired half of his extended family. When pressed on this he insisted they were the best candidates. I love it when these shysters get caught out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 It's just another Programme that amuses and entertains me after i've had a long day at work. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a serious documentary. I enjoy Dragons Den. Aye, too many would be intellectuals getting all uppity. It's entertainment, how the f**k does Oaky know anything about them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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