Safe Standing

[Drew]

If the club introduced non seat specific STs, I'd accept their decision without wailing and gnashing my teeth, but I also wouldn't buy an ST any more. I'd save money because I always miss games through the season anyway. I would instead take in sunny games from the main stand to get some heat about me, and would choose the West stand for cold, wet windy games to get more shelter at that side. Might even venture behind the goals once or twice for a change.

Having a seat specific ST is beneficial because I can run late coming from Cumbernauld, especially if the tribute act are at home too, but I know where my mate will be, and it's the seat next to mine. The people behind us, who sat with us at LS are also there every week so we are able to chat about the game. We bought seats with them when we moved grounds so we could stay together. Non-seat specific STs would see us do our own thing and split up. The main reason I buy an ST is for the knowledge that if I arrive an hour early, or fifteen minutes late, my seat is there, and anything I do doesn't impact on my mate - he doesn't need to go early to get two seats together, he doesn't need to text me to say where he's sitting, nothing. I turn up, he turns up. I don't buy an ST for the savings, the dibs on cup and away games, or through any real sense of duty/loyalty.

As I say though, if the club go down a non-specific route, not much I can do about it, but why aren't they going down the non-specific route?

Its a case of swings and roundabouts, though.

I suggested an option for a type of hybrid ST/pre-load card a good while back and the general feedback on here and the OF forum was pretty positive. I've since emailed Brian Caldwell about this twice, but had no response, despite his inital enthusiasm in terms of looking at the option.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Drew

[Guest somner9]

I've since emailed Brian Caldwell about this twice, but had no response,

Just had a PM from Caldzo... "Somzo in relation to the question of safe standing at smp.... sit tight..! Or you will be ejected by a our jobsworth stewards"

[pozbaird]

Its a case of swings and roundabouts, though.

I suggested an option for a type of hybrid ST/pre-load card a good while back and the general feedback on here and the OF forum was pretty positive. I've since emailed Brian Caldwell about this twice, but had no response, despite his inital enthusiasm in terms of looking at the option.

That's why I'm saying that if the club introduced non seat specific STs I wouldn't cry and bleat. I'd accept it and change my current habit, that's all.

I would change to a pay at the gate fan and move around the stadium as the weather and/or mood took me. Like the old days - sometimes stood behind the LS end goal, didn't always go into the NB.

[div]

Where was your seat at LS? We were almost bang on the halfway line in the NB, level with the pillar - the traditional 'singing section' area next to the fence. They were good seats, apart from Dave M, Big Jake and Juan Sanshoe a few rows behind singing 'Ginger hair is unacceptable!' at any opposition player who fit the bill.

Cnuts. All three of em'. Heh, heh.

I was in the very last seat in my row next to where the fence was.

To be fair I got into a bit of bother from the rozzers and the stewards that season for continually running up and down the stairs to shout at the linesman so I always suspected they moved me to keep me out the way

[div]

Sounds like a great idea..! to feck around with the main revenue stream that the playing budget is set against with the likelyhood that some would give up their ST as they wouldn't know game to game where they's be sat...

Ffs SGG and DL should polishing your fecking seat at each home game just before you sit down if you've committed to a ST

Dont think having a safe standing area would affect season ticket sales, if anything it could increase them.

Accepting that is never going to happen, the prospect of having a "sit anywhere you like" policy in W6 or W7 is also going to have zero impact on existing season ticket sales.

The stadium is like a morgue most games, but to be fair with no home wins since February it's hardly surprising.

[Thorizaar]

<p>

Aw feck - what an awful statistic.

It is awful - because it's so misleading. Five games, one loss and draws against Celtic, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen and Kilmarnock is the reality which is a lot more palatable than "no home wins since February".

[Guest somner9]

Dont think having a safe standing area would affect season ticket sales, if anything it could increase them.

Accepting that is never going to happen, the prospect of having a "sit anywhere you like" policy in W6 or W7 is also going to have zero impact on existing season ticket sales.

The stadium is like a morgue most games, but to be fair with no home wins since February it's hardly surprising.

Yeah but aye. but yeah.... some posters want that for the whole ground not just W6 + W7

[HSS]

Worth pointing out that Hampden also had fences installed around 1975..

As did Tynecastle,Easter Rd and Sellic Park.

[Stuart Dickson]

As usual some reasonable points mixed in with some utter pish.

The action on the pitch makes the atmosphere when all said and done, but generally people are more inclined to sing when they are standing because they can choose to stand together. It's common sense that a group of people are more likely to start singing a song together than when they are all separated.

This is why there is generally more singing at games away from home than there is at St.Mirren Park, as people can generally pick and choose where to sit when we are on our travels, whereas at home they don't have that luxury.

If you'[d point out the bit you think is "utter pish" perhaps I could take issue with you. As it is you seem to be in agreement with my two previous posts on this thread. As you've now acknowledged it doesn't matter if you stand or sit - so long as there is no allocation of seating and fans can group as they wish. And we both appear to agree that if the play on the park is pish then no-one will be singing or making noise no matter the arrangements in the stadium. So why start a thread calling for an expensive construction project to convert what is a safe, if rather dull looking ground, into something less safe and just as dull? Wouldn't it be far more productive to use the money - if there is any available - to put someone on the park that is exciting enough to get the support going rather than to rip seats out?

[Guest somner9]

If you'[d point out the bit you think is isn't "utter pish" perhaps I could take issue with you. As it is you I seem to be in agreement with my two previous posts on this thread.

FIFY

[Chris]

I wish people wouldn't keep raising the topic though like standing up means more noise. It doesn't. It never did do. I stood at many St Mirren games where the atmosphere was non existent in the 80s and I sat at Hampden Park in the 00's when Scotland played the likes of Germany, Italy and France when the noise was absolutely deafening. Standing or sitting doesn't matter to the noise levels and it's a nonsense argument to reduce safety levels at football ground for.

Are German fans totally silent when their team plays in Europe and they are forced to sit on seats? No. Therefore the argument should be null and void.

Firstly, no-one in the North Stand sits for Scotland games, and for big games usually no-one is sitting in the West either. The atmosphere has always come from the North Stand, so your point is not valid.

Secondly, no-one is forced to sit on seats at European matches. Yes, seats are provided. No, the fans don't sit on them. So that point, too, is invalid.

[Robo]

I hope the club do have a plan to increase attendances and, if they do, I hope it's more than just hoping that perfomances improve enough to attract more fans through the gates. While it's true, to a degree, that good perfomances will create a better atmosphere and attract more fans, it is equally true, to a degree, that bad performances will turn fans away and see the atmosphere deteriorate. St Mirren, will have more than their fair share of bad performances.

The other two variables that in my opinion would by likely to make any difference to attendances, are ticket price and the quality of fan experience (and by that I mean everything not including the performance of the team on the park). I reckon most would agree that the standard adult ticket price is too high, especially compared with what you might expect to pay in Germany and France for example. I'm not sure what the answer is there, but clearly with increased attendances you can afford to reduce ticket prices.

So how then to improve the fan experience. The obvious point, as has already been made, is that the place is like a morgue most of the time. I know it was a pre-season friendly, but the Newcastle game was so quiet it was almost embarrassing - and it lead to chants of "shit club shit fans" from the group of Geordies who were singing (all standing up I noticed). I was at the league opener at Firhill with a Jags-supporting mate and while the attendance was no doubt inflated by the return of McNamara and it being their first game back in the top division, the atmosphere was fantasic. We sat in the stand behind the goal and there was a large group of people standing, singing pretty much for the whole match. They had unallocated seating which helped, and the stand was for over-16s only. The point is though that the noise was coming for those who were standing, and I honestly believe that a standing area creates more noise than a seated area.

I would love to see our South Stand changed from a family stand to a safe standing area, with the family section moved to the Main Stand. Reduce the price for a standing ticket, and try to get people in there to make a noise. Let folk in with air horns, drums, whatever. Try to build a reputation for having a noisy, raucous support. I reckon creating that type of atmosphere is more likey to attract people than murmerings of attractive football in match reports that a lot of people who don't go to the games won't read anyway. I also think we would see improved home results if the place was jumping every other week.

The cost of introducing rail seats would obviously be an issue, but I think it would be worth exploring further if there was a genuine interest from fans. If we continue with the status quo, I don't think there's any way our fortunes will improve significantly over the long term, new back-up striker or not.

[pozbaird]

If we allow a drummer into the ground, he could use his drumsticks to get the air horn out of his arse that was shoved up there sideways.

[Drew]

Its a long time since our 'core' support has exceeded 3,500 or thereabouts.

The biggest turn-off, for me, is the cost of attending matches. Scottish top flight matches should cost no more than £12 for a standard ticket, but that is fantasy-world stuff, sadly.

Football was always considered a working class sport. Whether there truly is a working class in 21st century Scotland is up for debate, but people who earn the average wage (something in the region of £22K?) are pretty much priced out of going to football routinely unless they are making significant sacrifices to do this. I think a lot of folk don't regard what they experience in attending a football match as justifying making these sacrifices, and I fully understand this position.

The core support will take care of itself - largely as a result of blinkered loyalty (and I include myself in this number). The waverers will continue to waver unless going to matches becomes a less financially prohibitive and enjoyable exercise. Improving the atmosphere would help, but our stadium has limited potential due to the lay-out, IMO. Filled-in coners would improve things, but therein lies the snag in my reasoning when I'm talking about dropping admission prices yet suggesting costly enhancements to the ground.

Safe standing areas, if affordable from the club's perspective, would be great. Anything is worth trying.

[Robo]

Sensitive ears, Poz?

Edited August 20, 2013 by Robo

[pozbaird]

Sensitive ears, Poz?

Not particularly. Drummers at football grounds add absolutely zero to the 'atmosphere', they're just annoying cnuts.

I'll tell you what else annoys me. Those wankers at foreign grounds who don't even watch the match because they are orchestrating the crowd with a bloody megaphone. Fcuk off.

Why are we obsessed with trying to be something we aren't? Ultras, drummers, air horns? What's wrong with pies and bovril, singing songs, cheering when your team scores, booing the opposition, going for a pint post-match?

We're Scottish, not the bleedin' Curva Sud at the San Siro.

[Robo]

Not particularly. Drummers at football grounds add absolutely zero to the 'atmosphere', they're just annoying cnuts.

I'll tell you what else annoys me. Those wankers at foreign grounds who don't even watch the match because they are orchestrating the crowd with a bloody megaphone. Fcuk off.

Why are we obsessed with trying to be something we aren't? Ultras, drummers, air horns? What's wrong with pies and bovril, singing songs, cheering when your team scores, booing the opposition, going for a pint post-match?

We're Scottish, not the bleedin' Curva Sud at the San Siro.

What's wrong with pies and bovril? Nothing, but hardly add to the atmosphere.

Singing songs? The point being made is that this is in short supply at SMP.

Cheering when your team scores, booing the opposition? Great, but hardly exclusively Scottish - I bet they daft foreigners do that too.

Going for a pint post-match? Ok, but you're buying ;)

[Robo]

I'll tell you what else annoys me. Those wankers at foreign grounds who don't even watch the match because they are orchestrating the crowd with a bloody megaphone.

If someone wanted to do that, and it helped create a decent noise, all for it.

[pozbaird]

If someone wanted to do that, and it helped create a decent noise, all for it.

It creates a noise alright. The noise of a prick screaming into a megaphone.

[Robo]

It creates a noise alright. The noise of a prick screaming into a megaphone.

Pricks, wankers and cnuts. Bloody hell, just as well I'm fairly quiet at games.

[pozbaird]

Pricks, wankers and cnuts. Bloody hell, just as well I'm fairly quiet at games.

Only kiddy-on swearing! I don't use bad language, just the odd sweary word muttered under my breath.

I'm all for more singing, bigger crowds, a good atmosphere - I just don't think trying to become all 'foreign' with drummers and air horns will do it.

I mean, the Livvy drummer... a slap on the pus long overdue. A St Mirren drummer would most likely be hung from a floodlight pylon by fellow fans.

Edited August 20, 2013 by pozbaird

[BuddieinEK]

Only kiddy-on swearing! I don't use bad language, just the odd sweary word muttered under my breath.

I'm all for more singing, bigger crowds, a good atmosphere - I just don't think trying to become all 'foreign' with drummers and air horns will do it.

I mean, the Livvy drummer... a slap on the pus long overdue. A St Mirren drummer would most likely be hung from a floodlight pylon by fellow fans.

The drummers in the Maryhill Magyar junior choir were in danger of having their drumsticks hidden from public view in a funny-walk inducing way last week.

The drums at Fir Park add to the home atmosphere buy stop away fans from singing.

[Robo]

Only kiddy-on swearing! I don't use bad language, just the odd sweary word muttered under my breath.

I'm all for more singing, bigger crowds, a good atmosphere - I just don't think trying to become all 'foreign' with drummers and air horns will do it.

I mean, the Livvy drummer... a slap on the pus long overdue. A St Mirren drummer would most likely be hung from a floodlight pylon by fellow fans.

Haha, typing a sweary is definitely less bad than saying one!

I agree with you about the Livvy drummer, but part of the problem was they had no support to sing along, so it was just a guy drumming on his own.

I watch the Bundesliga on ESPN and it looks amazing. Granted they have huge crowds, but if we could replicate that in even a small way it would be fantastic. Don't see anything wrong with trying to emulate foreign teams if they are doing something well.

[pozbaird]

Drummers in a 60,000 crowd packed into somewhere like the Westfallen Stadion in Dortmund becomes part of a huge overall experience.

A drummer in W6 or W7 at St Mirren Park would simply be like watching Lewis Guy try to stay onside - extremely irritating and ends up giving everyone a sore head.

[Robo]

Drummers in a 60,000 crowd packed into somewhere like the Westfallen Stadion in Dortmund becomes part of a huge overall experience.

A drummer in W6 or W7 at St Mirren Park would simply be like watching Lewis Guy try to stay onside - extremely irritating and ends up giving everyone a sore head.

Maybe in a packed, noisy South Terrace?

Anyway, the drummer is not really the point I'm trying to make. What I'm saying is, make going to games cheaper, and fun regardless of what's happening on the park, and I reckon a safe standing area would go a long way to achieving that.