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Thompson For Manager? Time To Up Your Medication, Gents.


Kemp

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It's not surprising to see this place go in to meltdown after the weekend's result but some people really are seriously losing the plot, particularly that section of forum users who now seem to have completely flipped; the rabid foaming at the mouth anti Danny Lennon brigade.

Case in point is the group clamouring for Steven Thompson to be appointed manager, a decision that were it to be taken this week would surely be one of the most illogical and disastrous in the history of our fine club (I won't even consider the Kenny Shiels for manager collective as nothing more than a wind-up).

I will agree that Danny is looking likely to be out of a job soon unless he turns the league form around quickly (or wins the cup again...) and he must carry the can for not going in to the season completely prepared but why are the players getting off scot free here? And above all, why are some of you calling for two of them to be made manager and assistant manager?

It looks to me like Danny Lennon has fallen victim to "player power" and some the senior players have f**ked him over. The situations with Guy and Imrie tell their own story. Yet, if the problem with the team is that the players are not motivated ("he has lost the dressing room") why would you want Thompson and Teale to take over the team? They are on the park now and we are "soft" and there are guys like Harkins not bothering to pick up players from corners and Jim Goodwin, club captain, barely showing up. Davidg posted on another thread that Thompson refused to come off the bench in a game at the end of last season. It's up to him to back that quite serious allegation up, but if true then it paints a very sad picture of what goes on behind the scenes at St Mirren Park.

Graham Spiers said on the radio yesterday that the St Mirren support, like no other support in Scotland, have had it for their current manager since the day he started. And he is correct.

I think the reason that often this forum falls in to squabble between the "knicker wetters" and "happy clappers" is that many of us are not happy clappers but just feel deeply uncomfortable with the anonymity afforded to users of this forum being abused to launch a sustained, non-stop attack on one man. One poster uses so many aliases I believe he uses some to support Danny and others to berate him on a non stop basis. Another enjoys berating the manager so much that his calls for "wee clueless" to f**k off don't even change depending on who is in charge, Gus and Danny have enjoyed the same abuse and same nickname. Some posts from those like to claim to be in the know are now just "Bye Dan", "Thompson will be in charge now" etc Pretty poor stuff in my opinion....and I find it difficult to read all that directed at one man while the board, chairman and senior players, some of whom really have taken the piss I suspect, are still all lauded as heros.

The annoying thing is these guys have kept up such a sustained campaign of pish talking that most of what they say is now believed. Due to that, many of you now seem to be football luddites calling for a return to the long ball game (last used to any effect by Norway around 1994) or convinced that Danny having led Cowdenbeath to succesive promotions, got us to our ever finish in 25 years while playing some very attractive football, and won us the league cup is "tactially clueless". Even though in that very League Cup final he switched the shape of the team around and we went from 1-0 down to 3-1 up.

I've never seen St Mirren play as good football as we did at the start of Lennon's 2nd season, I recall us ripping Dundee Utd apart at Tannadice until wee Nigel got sent off and it was sensational. The victories of Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen we have enjoyed in recent seasons were great & accomponied with great football. I really hoped we would get better at that style of attacking play and the under 20s and all youth levels would learn to play the same style. It's that approach that Scottish football needs.

So it is sad for me to see that it now seems to be the end of the line for Danny Lennon. I don't believe he is leaving because of a stubborn commitment to playing passing football, or due a lack of tactical awareness, I believe he is going to go because the players do not want to play for him anymore.

And so I ask again, if there has been a collapse of moral and motivation in the dressing room, how could any of you possibly not hold the senior players at this club just as accountable as the manager, and why on earth would you want to see one of them take over as manager?

Edited by Kemp
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Thompson should not and will not be made manager. Shiels should not and will not be made manager.

However, to speculate about replacements at the moment is a pretty redundant argument. You cannot say that Danny should not be sacked because of a lack of potential replacements. Danny should be judged on our teams performances on the park, not the potential ability of possible replacements.

I am pretty certain we will be looking for a new manager by the end of October by the latest, probably earlier than then, maybe even this time next week.

Then the discussion and the debate on the replacement will start.

Edited by Lex
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My intention was not to start a thread slagging off Steven Thompson as a player as I am probably part of that "Thompson is a god brigade."

I'm just trying to point out the lunacy of blaming one man for every problem at the club and highlight that if the players have lost motivation then as well as each of them taking a long look at themselves it would be clear that neither Goodwin or Thompson are up to much as leaders.

Too true kemp, the thommo is one of us, the thommo is a god, the thommo
can do no wrong brigade get right on my tits, he's not kicked his arse for months
now.

If he's as big a st mirren fan as he claims to be maybe he should get his finger out
arse and gives us some decent perfomances again....

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Some reasonable points.

For me Danny has suffered from the Gus MacPherson hangover.

The support was dvided on MacPherson for the last couple of seasons of his reign. He made us an established SPL side, he took us back to Hampden a couple of times, and we were in the main quite difficult to beat.

That said, we were dull to watch, we didn't score many goals, and his relationship with the fans was pretty poor to put it mildly.

So we had some fans who were quite happy with what he was doing and were prepared to forgive some of the not so great parts of his reign, and we had others who wanted him out. The support was well and truly divided in the opinion, and eventually the board, concerned with the budget situation and the relationship between the Youth setup and the first team, pulled the trigger.

Then in came Danny who initially got off to a bad start because of his dealings in the transfer market. The influx of Cowdenbeath players made us a bit of a laughing stock at the time, and although the likes of McGregor and Samson were impressive signings, there were many that didn't cut the mustard and in the end we were hugely fortunate to stay up.

The fans opinion of Lennon at that time were fairly unanimous I reckon, he hadn't improved at all on what Gus had done and in actual fact we looked like we were going backwards.

Season 2 however was a different kettle of fish. The close season signings were exciting, in came Thompson, Teale, Carey, McGowan, Hasselbaink and the likes and in came this "new style" of football.

We started the season with some excellent performances and suddenly everything was looking good and the managers stock was high. That the season eventually fizzled out was disappointing but an 8th placed finish wasn't to be sniffed at and the general consensus I think was that with some improvements at the back we could go on and do something pretty special.

That summer I think we all expected some work to be done on the defence but actually nothing happened at all, save for the eventual arrival of Dummett on loan to fill the left back spot and then the captain moving back to central defence. The loss of McGregor for a second season was a big blow but it was not sorted either in the summer after it happened or in January.

Indeed Lee Mair was given a two year deal last summer then told at the end of the season he was free to bugger off.

Imrie and Guy both left under a cloud, whilst the goalkeeper, who was absolutely outstanding in his time with us, was allowed to leave because Danny didn't feel he was worth a wage rise. Given he was one of the poorest paid players at the club that decision was questionable, especially so given the performances of his replacement thus far.

Of course we also had the cup win last season. Something that cannot and should not ever be forgotten. It was a magnificent achievement, and one the management team probably didn't get enough credit for. The loan signings of Goncalves and Newton proved to be a masterstroke and whilst it is certainly true that we rode our luck in the final, we more than earned that luck with the performances we had against Aberdeen and Celtic in the previous rounds.

It feels to me that the cup win has given us a massive hangover.

Danny still hasn't addressed the issues in central defence. We play Cheesy and Goodwin there week in, week out. We lose goals week in, week out. Yet the central defensive partnership remains. Something there must be wrong. Both the players are decent enough but as a partnership it is not right. We fanny about too much and there is now a dreadful communication issue with the goalkeeper.

Playign a centre half at right back when you have a right back sitting on the bench like he did yesterday is the sort of tactics we used to see in the latter days of Tom Hendries reign. Its utterly baffling to have only one experienced striker in the whole squad and it's incredible that it took us so long to bring a left back in over the summer.

The irony is that with 2 or 3 additions to this team we could have an excellent side. Danny's judgement has been piss poor thus far in this transfer window and it does begin to look like he is losing the plot.

I will continue to give him and the team all the support I can muster but I don't personally think he will survive if we lose on Tuesday and on Saturday.

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Great post.

Highlighting the continued effect of aliases on the forum, the ability of so called supporters to forget the best style of play from our club for decades and the willingness of forum members to swallow some threads which are nothing more than agenda.

Also the desire to look at the worst case scenario is astonishing. If you don't become one of this gang you're a happy clapper. clap.gifclap.gifclap.gif

Sure our form since the cup final, even before, has been poor and right now it's fair to be concerned..

Sure the manager has to shoulder the responsibility but as you say, the majority of players, who have been woeful at times, including King Steven, are equally to blame.

I'm sure many supporters are concerned, and I sincerely feel for the guys who attend week in, week out but to think that there are many on here who seem know better than the manager, either in tactics or the transfer market, and the club is frankly hilarious.

The ability to instantly forget we HAVE been after some players is amazing yet they pick on the managers after match comments, the fact he doesn't shout enough and any other nonsense matters.

We are not in a great position, Lennon may get punted, he may not but I'm sure little of what gets posted here will influence that.

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Div, are you sure it was Danny who wouldn't sanction a higher wage for Sammy and not the BoD?

Good post from the OP. I'm definitely more clapper than wetter, I wasn't sure getting rid of Gus was the right thing to do at the time, so possibly I am too conservative.

Still think some of the verbals dished out yesterday were beyond the pale.

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Decent analysis, Div.

I'd agree that you have to look at a lot of the transfer dealings and be disappointed. If we could have Samson, Carey and Hasselbaink lining up for next weekend I'd feel a lot more confident but then I don't know the truth regarding the budget Danny has to work with as compared to Killie, St Johnstone or Ross County.

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Interesting to see you state that the board were worried about the relationship between the youth set up and the first team.

Also worth remembering that if Gus MacPherson was still St Mirren manager then Samson and McGregor would be part time in the 2nd division, John McGinn, Kenny McLean, Thomas Reilly, Mo Yaqub & Anton Brady wouldn't be near our first team, Marc McAusland would be at Queen of the South and Graham Carey might just be some fat guy that used to play for Celtic youth.

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Interesting to see you state that the board were worried about the relationship between the youth set up and the first team.

Also worth remembering that if Gus MacPherson was still St Mirren manager then Samson and McGregor would be part time in the 2nd division, John McGinn, Kenny McLean, Thomas Reilly, Mo Yaqub & Anton Brady wouldn't be near our first team, Marc McAusland would be at Queen of the South and Graham Carey might just be some fat guy that used to play for Celtic youth.

Good points Kemp....I was in the Gus camp but binning all the youth every season can't be a smart play. A balance has to be reached but I'm pretty sure right now we have it wrong. "Nobody said it was easy...and nobody said It could be so hard"

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My thoughts on this subject from another thread...

A lot of talk of Thompson for new manager but that doesn't fill me with any confidence.

I don't think he's the type we need as things stand. No managerial experience and he's well and truly one of the lads. I don't see how that would work turning to be their boss.
He's not really set a great example for respect of the manager either. Refusing to come off the bench at the end of last season.

I like Danny but have had a sneaky feeling for months that the senior players take the absolute c**t down there. He seems to have lost the respect of these guys IMO and its amazing what power the players have in these situations.

No way back for Danny IMO without clearing out pretty much everyone and starting again and we all know that can't happen. Only one outcome for me but the players need to take a good look at themselves IMO.

Edited by davidg
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I believe he is going to go because the players do not want to play for him anymore.

Decent post that is pretty close to the mark. (Could've done without having a pop at others but that's an argument for another thread)

This was the comment that stood out for me. If this truly is the case then it's a f**king poor show. That being said these situations never arise without some tipping point or indeed a series of events that drive a wedge between players and manager. I know it's a cliche, however, if he has "lost the dressing room" then it's all over for him. Managers never win these battles as clubs have too much invested in the playing staff. Remember Le Guen at Sevco?

There's so much pish that gets spouted on here that even if someone is "in the know" we'll all probably miss it amongst the other rubbish and so we don't really have any insight into what goes on behind the dressing room wall.

Football's a fickle mistress. Win the next two, against very beatable opponents, and buy some breathing space to fix some of the issues. Lose the next two and I'm afraid we'll be looking for a new boss next Saturday night.

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Div, are you sure it was Danny who wouldn't sanction a higher wage for Sammy and not the BoD?

Good post from the OP. I'm definitely more clapper than wetter, I wasn't sure getting rid of Gus was the right thing to do at the time, so possibly I am too conservative.

Still think some of the verbals dished out yesterday were beyond the pale.

I don't know the detail behind every situation but my general understanding is that Danny is given a budget to spend. How he chooses to spend that is up to him.

I don't think the board would sanction a move that smashed the general wage structure at the club but at the end of the day I believe the manager makes the decisions as to how his money is spent.

I've no idea how much Samson was on before or what he is on at Kilmarnock but it's reasonable to assume he wasn't on much when he joined us as we plucked him from part time football at Ayr. He very seldom let us down, and even got into the Scotland squads.

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Looking at some posts together Danny looks like a condemned man before the ICT game....He talks of reduced budgets ....The squad is the poorest in numbers and quality for many years. Div comes on here with a very uncharacteristic rant at Lennon. Anyone else think he is in with the BOD in deflecting the blame?........No comment is noted from CS losing his license and being unable to commute to Paisley.

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Looking at some posts together Danny looks like a condemned man before the ICT game....He talks of reduced budgets ....The squad is the poorest in numbers and quality for many years. Div comes on here with a very uncharacteristic rant at Lennon. Anyone else think he is in with the BOD in deflecting the blame?........No comment is noted from CS losing his license and being unable to commute to  Paisley.

Hardly a rant was it? Pretty thoughtful analysis imo.

Numbers yes, quality not so sure. We stayed up before playing John Potter for a whole season FFS.

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I don't know the detail behind every situation but my general understanding is that Danny is given a budget to spend. How he chooses to spend that is up to him.

 

I don't think the board would sanction a move that smashed the general wage structure at the club but at the end of the day I believe the manager makes the decisions as to how his money is spent.

 

I've no idea how much Samson was on before or what he is on at Kilmarnock but it's reasonable to assume he wasn't on much when he joined us as we plucked him from part time football at Ayr. He very seldom let us down, and even got into the Scotland squads.

Sammy was the best keeper we've had fit years and a vital cog.

Perhaps as some have said Danny underestimates the importance of a top class GK, which Sammy is imo.

Still, even with Buffon in goal we would have got beat yesterday and in Inverness.

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