GlenburnSaint Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 its been even longer than that! we were ultimately pish under gus tae....... I think we were harder to beat under gus and the squad wasnt as talented in terms of ability. Imo gus got more out of his players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 People go on about the lack of victories at the sharp end of last season, (and I know I was in a wee bit of a panic at the time), but statistics are usable for all. Let's look at the facts. A few weeks before the cup final we were sitting reasonably comfortably after a 2-0 victory over Hearts on 17th Feb. We followed this up with a shocker on March 6. 2-1 reverse to Dundee. After this we had a run of 4 DRAWS. NO DEFEATS. Dundee did us again then we had two draws, one defeat and one win to finish the season That's 12 points from 10 games. Just to make it clear. It was not 10 defeats. It was 3. They say the devil is in the detail and I think this highlights this fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 People go on about the lack of victories at the sharp end of last season, (and I know I was in a wee bit of a panic at the time), but statistics are usable for all. Let's look at the facts. A few weeks before the cup final we were sitting reasonably comfortably after a 2-0 victory over Hearts on 17th Feb. We followed this up with a shocker on March 6. 2-1 reverse to Dundee. After this we had a run of 4 DRAWS. NO DEFEATS. Dundee did us again then we had two draws, one defeat and one win to finish the season That's 12 points from 10 games. Just to make it clear. It was not 10 defeats. It was 3. They say the devil is in the detail and I think this highlights this fact. For balance and nothing else, I still would like to see DL turn it round, in the previous six league games before the Hearts win we had lost 3 and drawn 2 with 1 win against ICT. Defeats were to Ross County (a right hammering) and Hibs at home and St Johnstone away with draws against Kilmarnock and Aberdeen. No matter how we dress it up our league form since the beginning of 2013 isn't great....18 points in 21 games, including the after split games, is worrying and our home form in that time is 11 from a possible 33 with home defeats to Ross County, Hibs, Dundee and Partick Thistle. Stats can be made to look how we want them to appear but facts are hard to argue with. All that aside I like DL and hope that a win against Motherwell saves his job and puts us on a run to take us up the league, another couple of defeats though in the next three games and I think his tea may well be oot!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 So, say in the future, if we are liquidated and a club with a technically/legally slightly different name are playing at St Mirren Park in black and white stripes, are you saying those supporters of it are not St Mirren fans? And that they didnt win the league cup in 2013? Interesting question. For me, if St Mirren were liquidated in its current form that would be it for me. The new team would NOT be St Mirren with the 126 year history and all it's cups any more than the current Aidrieonians is the old Airdrieonians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Blair Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Interesting question. For me, if St Mirren were liquidated in its current form that would be it for me. The new team would NOT be St Mirren with the 126 year history and all it's cups any more than the current Aidrieonians is the old Airdrieonians. It's a bit more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) For balance and nothing else, I still would like to see DL turn it round, in the previous six league games before the Hearts win we had lost 3 and drawn 2 with 1 win against ICT. Defeats were to Ross County (a right hammering) and Hibs at home and St Johnstone away with draws against Kilmarnock and Aberdeen. No matter how we dress it up our league form since the beginning of 2013 isn't great....18 points in 21 games, including the after split games, is worrying and our home form in that time is 11 from a possible 33 with home defeats to Ross County, Hibs, Dundee and Partick Thistle. Stats can be made to look how we want them to appear but facts are hard to argue with. All that aside I like DL and hope that a win against Motherwell saves his job and puts us on a run to take us up the league, another couple of defeats though in the next three games and I think his tea may well be oot!! This actually means that our results actually didn't significantly drop toward the end of the season. 12 points in 10 as opposed to 13 in the previous 10. Confirms the old adage that you get lies, damn lies and statistics. Edited September 5, 2013 by stlucifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 It's a bit more than that. That'll teach me to subtract in my head........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ McG Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 I think we were harder to beat under gus and the squad wasnt as talented in terms of ability. Imo gus got more out of his players. People go on about the lack of victories at the sharp end of last season, (and I know I was in a wee bit of a panic at the time), but statistics are usable for all. Let's look at the facts. A few weeks before the cup final we were sitting reasonably comfortably after a 2-0 victory over Hearts on 17th Feb. We followed this up with a shocker on March 6. 2-1 reverse to Dundee. After this we had a run of 4 DRAWS. NO DEFEATS. Dundee did us again then we had two draws, one defeat and one win to finish the season That's 12 points from 10 games. Just to make it clear. It was not 10 defeats. It was 3. They say the devil is in the detail and I think this highlights this fact. That comfortable 2-0 win against hearts was our last win at home in the league, brutal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 So, say in the future, if we are liquidated and a club with a technically/legally slightly different name are playing at St Mirren Park in black and white stripes, are you saying those supporters of it are not St Mirren fans? And that they didnt win the league cup in 2013? So, say in the future, if we are liquidated and a club with a technically/legally slightly different name are playing at St Mirren Park in black and white stripes, are you saying those supporters of it are not St Mirren fans? And that they didnt win the league cup in 2013? I think you answered your own question there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 It's a bit more than that. He's only been watching them that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltcoatsbuddie Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 What would you say, if I said that I agree with you, but its not up to you or me if and when DL gets the sack? Only the BOD can do that and no amount of gnashing of teeth on a football forum is going to make a difference. i agree mate .I know its not up to me or you ,the board will decide what is best for the club in their eyes, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 That'll teach me to subtract in my head........ Probably better if someone simply and actually subtracted your head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltcoatsbuddie Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Ah, the I'm great at spotting football stuff because I go line. Indeed, jog on, there's no point, stupid doesn't cover you. PS If you know that we didn't play for three months why did you post nine months? PPS Just to clarify, family is much more important than St Mirren, hope that helps. PPPS It wasn't a garden centre. 1st point ..its a helluva lot easier to talk about what has happened at a game if you have been.i wouldn't dream of going onto internet and posting pish about an event I wasn't at ,because that would just be stupid 2nd point..the quote said we had won 3 games in 9 months ,I think you will find this to be true 3rd point..family is more important than st Mirren ,this is your personal opinion,so why don't you go and find a forum about family to post pish on ? 4th point..doesn't matter where or what you do on a Saturday ,we all know where you aint going to turn up.but I just wish that you would realise that if you are not at the game any point you make is not worthy of any credence I will await your petty reply with silly wee faces and your usual rubbish because you believe you know everything about st Mirren and everybody else is wrong, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 1st point ..its a helluva lot easier to talk about what has happened at a game if you have been.i wouldn't dream of going onto internet and posting pish about an event I wasn't at ,because that would just be stupid 2nd point..the quote said we had won 3 games in 9 months ,I think you will find this to be true 3rd point..family is more important than st Mirren ,this is your personal opinion,so why don't you go and find a forum about family to post pish on ? 4th point..doesn't matter where or what you do on a Saturday ,we all know where you aint going to turn up.but I just wish that you would realise that if you are not at the game any point you make is not worthy of any credence I will await your petty reply with silly wee faces and your usual rubbish because you believe you know everything about st Mirren and everybody else is wrong, Point 1 I hate to point this out as it would make you look daft but I've not commented on any games, oh dear that's you off to a bad start. Again, if you REALLY think that just because you attend your comments are pertinent, then you are a bit on the simple side. Point 2 No point, already been pointed out. Point 3 Again, if just to point out how dim you are, the site if for a whole range of people. Although a St Mirren supporters site, which I am, I think the site is open to many people and a wide range of subjects. Point 4 Again, if I attend or I don't, I don't go on with the same narrow minded points that some do, say like you. Many thanks for pointing out you are a fool, I thoroughly enjoyed replying. Oh, here, we're done........................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 WeeBud, on 05 Sept 2013 - 12:43, said: For balance and nothing else, I still would like to see DL turn it round, in the previous six league games before the Hearts win we had lost 3 and drawn 2 with 1 win against ICT. Defeats were to Ross County (a right hammering) and Hibs at home and St Johnstone away with draws against Kilmarnock and Aberdeen. No matter how we dress it up our league form since the beginning of 2013 isn't great....18 points in 21 games, including the after split games, is worrying and our home form in that time is 11 from a possible 33 with home defeats to Ross County, Hibs, Dundee and Partick Thistle. Stats can be made to look how we want them to appear but facts are hard to argue with. All that aside I like DL and hope that a win against Motherwell saves his job and puts us on a run to take us up the league, another couple of defeats though in the next three games and I think his tea may well be oot!! stlucifer, on 05 Sept 2013 - 13:02, said: This actually means that our results actually didn't significantly drop toward the end of the season. 12 points in 10 as opposed to 13 in the previous 10. Confirms the old adage that you get lies, damn lies and statistics. Does that mean then that the "down tools/league cup" theory is garbage and actually we were just continuing on from previous poor form?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Does that mean then that the "down tools/league cup" theory is garbage and actually we were just continuing on from previous poor form?? No. It means stats are unreliable and people use them for their own ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 No. It means stats are unreliable and people use them for their own ends. You've lost me in a cloud of confusion St Lucifer I'm afraid, I've already stated that I want DL to succeed but for nothing other than balance I showed the complete breakdown of league results so far in 2013, none of them are stats, they are facts. I'm guessing you're pointing out to me that you can spin stats to show we haven't been on a poor run and that our league form , particularly at home, has really been OK and will see us stay un the SPFL this season. To re-iterate one more time........I am not wanting to see DL sacked and I have a huge big chunk of respect for him for the League Cup win but I think it's undeniable that things have to improve for him to keep being our manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Vambo57, on 04 Sept 2013 - 14:11, said: What would you say, if I said that I agree with you, but its not up to you or me if and when DL gets the sack? Only the BOD can do that and no amount of gnashing of teeth on a football forum is going to make a difference. i agree mate .I know its not up to me or you ,the board will decide what is best for the club in their eyes, BTW, I don't agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrie82 Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Even if we do go down this season.... Instead of moaning about the manager after only 4/5 games... why not just enjoy where we are right now and take our medicine when/if it arrives enjoy your saturday and make of it as you will,even a loss brings debates in the pub afterwards I'm a ST.MIRREN fan and been so all my life,seen it all ( ups and many many downs) but i'm still a ST.MIRREN fan Simply a ridiculous statement and oaksoft your a tiresome bore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrie82 Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Lets be real here for a minute. Danny has to beat Motherwell or at least not lose yes? Ok he then goes to Easter road were he again needs a result yes? Then it's Aberdeen home and a really massive match at tynecastle. Can I say I hope saints deliver I really do but watching us so far I cannot see a run of great results coming. What I'm saying is that yes Danny deserves more time but unless he wins a few he will be right back in bother. So we beat well and then lose the next game and the knifes are back out. Whatever way I look at this I simply cannot see the current squad winning enough games to dig Danny out of this. Danny has lost the fans patience even ones on here who never want a manager sacked now want change. That means that the next time we are beaten the manager is back in the brown stuff. Even if we win a few and Danny stays I do not believe his contract will be renewed without the top 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrie82 Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Deary me. You may go to games but you don't understand how maths works. It's clearly NOT 9 months of football that you are talking about here. THAT is called misrepresenting the data to suit your clear agenda and only a mug would fall for it TBH. Nobody is denying that the stats are not great but you don't need to massage them. We're not idiots and don't need anyone dumbing things down and spinning. For a more accurate picture it's actually been all of April and half of May. Then you can add the 4 league games so far and the Cup game too. In total that's just over two months of shite on aggregate. That's a very far cry from 9 months. Did I miss something or apart from our cup win did we have a shed load of wins last year? No we didn't and Danny survived due to the excellent cup win. This is a new season and as I said before you have to look at the here and now and the league form has continued to be desperate and were out of the cup already. I think he deserves a month but if no improvement then its time to change as he will have had more than enough time. I do not want to be relegated so October 5 th after tynecastle will be a pivotal moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Did I miss something or apart from our cup win did we have a shed load of wins last year? No we didn't and Danny survived due to the excellent cup win. This is a new season and as I said before you have to look at the here and now and the league form has continued to be desperate and were out of the cup already. I think he deserves a month but if no improvement then its time to change as he will have had more than enough time. I do not want to be relegated so October 5 th after tynecastle will be a pivotal moment You can't call me a tiresome bore and then the next second comment on one of my posts expecting a considered response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Did I miss something or apart from our cup win did we have a shed load of wins last year? No we didn't and Danny survived due to the excellent cup win. This is a new season and as I said before you have to look at the here and now and the league form has continued to be desperate and were out of the cup already. I think he deserves a month but if no improvement then its time to change as he will have had more than enough time. I do not want to be relegated so October 5 th after tynecastle will be a pivotal moment Oh I can't help myself....... What you missed was the fact that my comment was pointing out that by using the phrase "9 months" he was manipulating stats to make things seem much worse than they already are. The stats aren't great. We can see that with our own educated eyes without someone with an agenda treating us like numpties. 9 months my arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Ah, the I'm great at spotting football stuff because I go line. Indeed, jog on, there's no point, stupid doesn't cover you. PS If you know that we didn't play for three months why did you post nine months? PPS Just to clarify, family is much more important than St Mirren, hope that helps. PPPS It wasn't a garden centre. PPPPS - You f*cking tell em !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) And THAT sums up the pish that is being posted. I'll remind you, as its obviously escaped your sharp wit, we didn't play for two and a half months - not three. Stupid doesn't cover you. If we didn't play for two and a half months why did you post three months? You really need to try and be constructive on this forum instead of trolling and dishing out abuse to everyone... Irony alert? Hello troll. Do you get excited to come on and troll my posts? PS I'm honoured, half your posts today all for me, shucks. FFS reading the "banter" between you two is as hilarious as an evening watching a 3 hour Christmas Special of the Krankies, Little and Large and then that dead tit Mike something with the big dug. Pretty sure if I sandpapered my own crotch it would be more fun. Edited September 5, 2013 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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