Glasgow Tops Uk Workless Homes Survey

[Stuart Dickson]

It's taken 6 years of SNP leadership at Holyrood, but Glasgow has finally overtaken Liverpool as the UK's most work shy City.

[Wilbur]

It's taken 6 years of SNP leadership at Holyrood, but Glasgow has finally overtaken Liverpool as the UK's most work shy City.

Remind me how long the Conservatives have been in power in the UK ?

As talented as he no-doubt is, I can't see what influence Mr Salmond can have on the people of Liverpool.

[Stuart Dickson]

Remind me how long the Conservatives have been in power in the UK ?

As talented as he no-doubt is, I can't see what influence Mr Salmond can have on the people of Liverpool.

Dunno where you've been Wilbur but the Conservatives haven't been in power at all. The coalition has been in power since the 11th May 2010. What you can't deny is that the rate of deterioration in Glasgow has been impressive over the last six years. Six years ago Glasgow was seen as a call centre powerhouse to compete with Mumbai yet under SNP rule the city has lost even those low paid jobs.

[delpierro]

if Glasgow was a SNP run council, you would be sputing all over yer monitor, by now. (probably still are)

[TediousTom]

It's taken 6 years of SNP leadership at Holyrood, but Glasgow has finally overtaken Liverpool as the UK's most work shy City.

Great point Mr Dickson and this is exactly why we need radical political change in my beloved country of Scotland. The best part of the United Kingdom deserves better and has been badly let down by the years of Westminster rule.

Hopefully my countrymen will "smell the coffee" and with the help of the credible yes campaign bring about a new political dawn whereby we can focus on these issues rather than fund military campaigns and London based banks.

Scotland remains a great country with great potential but she has been badly abused by Westminster. Thank you for highlighting this story as it is important that as many people as possible are made aware of the appalling conditions that people only a short distance away are living in.

[Stuart Dickson]

Great point Mr Dickson and this is exactly why we need radical political change in my beloved country of Scotland. The best part of the United Kingdom deserves better and has been badly let down by the years of Westminster rule.

Hopefully my countrymen will "smell the coffee" and with the help of the credible yes campaign bring about a new political dawn whereby we can focus on these issues rather than fund military campaigns and London based banks.

Scotland remains a great country with great potential but she has been badly abused by Westminster. Thank you for highlighting this story as it is important that as many people as possible are made aware of the appalling conditions that people only a short distance away are living in.

Tom, with one third of Scottish jobs being reliant on the UK Public Sector the situation is only likely to get much worse if Scotland votes for Independence. As Westminster withdraws all it's offices back to within the boundaries of it's own influence Scotlands journey to Third World status will be complete. Mass unemployment will cripple the Scottish Economy, the failure of the Scottish Government to deal with Welfare Junkies will make our tax rate one of the highest in the world, and our wasteful investment in under developed technology like those stupid little windmills will leave Scotland with many hours of darkness as the ensuing power cuts put off all manner of investment in Scottish Companies.

The Sun newspaper used it to good effect in the past - but this time it's real. In the event of Scottish Independence would the last person to leave please turn the lights out.

[saintnextlifetime]

Great point Mr Dickson and this is exactly why we need radical political change in my beloved country of Scotland. The best part of the United Kingdom deserves better and has been badly let down by the years of Westminster rule.

Hopefully my countrymen will "smell the coffee" and with the help of the credible yes campaign bring about a new political dawn whereby we can focus on these issues rather than fund military campaigns and London based banks.

Scotland remains a great country with great potential but she has been badly abused by Westminster. Thank you for highlighting this story as it is important that as many people as possible are made aware of the appalling conditions that people only a short distance away are living in.

Not forgetting the WMD's we have to finance , also. .

[Bart Simpson]

Tom, with one third of Scottish jobs being reliant on the UK Public Sector the situation is only likely to get much worse if Scotland votes for Independence. As Westminster withdraws all it's offices back to within the boundaries of it's own influence Scotlands journey to Third World status will be complete. Mass unemployment will cripple the Scottish Economy, the failure of the Scottish Government to deal with Welfare Junkies will make our tax rate one of the highest in the world, and our wasteful investment in under developed technology like those stupid little windmills will leave Scotland with many hours of darkness as the ensuing power cuts put off all manner of investment in Scottish Companies.

The Sun newspaper used it to good effect in the past - but this time it's real. In the event of Scottish Independence would the last person to leave please turn the lights out.

Stuart, your points are getting desperate.

Westminster withdrawing offices to within its boundaries...factoring in military spending alone, I'm sure savings in this one department alone would stave off third world status for quite some time.

As for power cuts, less reliance on fossil fuels with increasingly high prices surely can only be a good thing? Those in your camp are quick to highlight the flaws in basing an economic future on oil...so which argument is correct? Surely a balance between the natural resources of our country is a sensible plan?

I'll not be leaving if we vote no, and I certainly won't be leaving if we vote yes. I also know I'll not change your opinion, nor will you change mine.

Out of interest, whilst appreciating that it is of no relevance to the independence debate, what is the better together's vision of a modern progressive Scotland? Will there definitively be more power for Scotland within the realms of devolution or is it the status quo? You and they agree we have problems, but how would you sort them?

[oaksoft]

Out of interest, whilst appreciating that it is of no relevance to the independence debate, what is the better together's vision of a modern progressive Scotland? Will there definitively be more power for Scotland within the realms of devolution or is it the status quo? You and they agree we have problems, but how would you sort them?

Stuart has already said his first policy would have us competing with China and India on wages so that'll be a future of 40p per hour sweatshops.

He can't understand why nobody else has thought of this, sees no downside and so I'm tingling with excitement about that prospect coming to Scotland soon.

He'd also, by the virtue of magic, discover enough money from under his mangy mattress to hand every citizen £25,000 a year or thereabouts so we can spend it on extensions to our houses, holidays in Greece and security guards to protect our houses and cars from the hordes of starving people living on the streets and eating out of bins as a result of his first policy and the fact that they squandered his £25,000 windfall on stupid luxuries like food because their salaries no longer paid them enough to do anything else.

He'd abandon all government funding for the NHS, welfare and education believing presumably that we won't have time to indulge in these "luxuries" whilst simultaneously working 18 hours a day in those sweatshops I described above.

Finally, he'd keep Danny Lennon as the manager of St Mirren.

So it's not all bad news then.

Edited September 6, 2013 by oaksoft

[Stuart Dickson]

Out of interest, whilst appreciating that it is of no relevance to the independence debate, what is the better together's vision of a modern progressive Scotland? Will there definitively be more power for Scotland within the realms of devolution or is it the status quo? You and they agree we have problems, but how would you sort them?

I don't know what the official line of Better Together is, but for me it would be to regress back to the pre devolution days. Scotland worked better when we had less politicians f**king it up. One parliament in London full of those expenses claiming wasters is more than enough for any country.

As Oaksoft says - I would cut the cost of government. The Welfare State would be scrapped, as would the failing NHS, and state run education would be a thing of the past too. Instead I'd have us adopt the system that works so well in Sweden. We'd still collect in the taxes and NI but instead of the government spending the money for the people, the money would be paid out to all qualifying UK resident UK citizens and as Oaksoft says - anyone doing the simple sums can work out that it would pay out a minimum tax free dividend of £25,000 for a family of four - from which the family would have a legal responsibility to pay for their childs private education between the age of 5 and 16. Just think of the benefits - a society where there is no excuse not to work, a society where every child benefits from a private education where teachers are actually held accountable for their work, and a society where everyone benefits gets the cash in their hand to demand a better service from their healthcare provider instead of just accepting whatever old shit the NHS throws at them. The National Debt would be cleared off by the sale and rental of all public sector real estate - hospitals and schools which would be needed by private sector suppliers - an act that would free up £43Bn per annum back to the Treasury.

[smcc]

Tom, with one third of Scottish jobs being reliant on the UK Public Sector the situation is only likely to get much worse if Scotland votes for Independence. As Westminster withdraws all it's offices back to within the boundaries of it's own influence Scotlands journey to Third World status will be complete. Mass unemployment will cripple the Scottish Economy, the failure of the Scottish Government to deal with Welfare Junkies will make our tax rate one of the highest in the world, and our wasteful investment in under developed technology like those stupid little windmills will leave Scotland with many hours of darkness as the ensuing power cuts put off all manner of investment in Scottish Companies.

The Sun newspaper used it to good effect in the past - but this time it's real. In the event of Scottish Independence would the last person to leave please turn the lights out.

I think you will find that it was the UK government that created the "Welfare Junkies". I can remember being encouraged by a previous Conservative government to declare people unfit for work in order to reduce the unemployment figures. Does that sound like a good idea?

Edited September 8, 2013 by smcc

[Stuart Dickson]

No. It's sounds almost as stupid as the idea that cleaners and bin men should pay for a lawyer or a politician to go through university. Or as stupid as the idea that the taxpayer pay for Tom Farmers Viagra, or Alex Salmond weight loss pills in full without any means test.

Government is shite with money. It always has been. We all dislike politicians yet we were duped into devolution which gave us even more crap politicians. The sooner Scotland buries Independence forever the sooner we can stop those wasters passing away our money.

[Hew Janus]

I don't know what the official line of Better Together is, but for me it would be to regress back to the pre devolution days. Scotland worked better when we had less politicians f**king it up. One parliament in London full of those expenses claiming wasters is more than enough for any country.

As Oaksoft says - I would cut the cost of government. The Welfare State would be scrapped, as would the failing NHS, and state run education would be a thing of the past too. Instead I'd have us adopt the system that works so well in Sweden. We'd still collect in the taxes and NI but instead of the government spending the money for the people, the money would be paid out to all qualifying UK resident UK citizens and as Oaksoft says - anyone doing the simple sums can work out that it would pay out a minimum tax free dividend of £25,000 for a family of four - from which the family would have a legal responsibility to pay for their childs private education between the age of 5 and 16. Just think of the benefits - a society where there is no excuse not to work, a society where every child benefits from a private education where teachers are actually held accountable for their work, and a society where everyone benefits gets the cash in their hand to demand a better service from their healthcare provider instead of just accepting whatever old shit the NHS throws at them. The National Debt would be cleared off by the sale and rental of all public sector real estate - hospitals and schools which would be needed by private sector suppliers - an act that would free up £43Bn per annum back to the Treasury.

Sweeden a country that's basic rate of income tax is approx 48% between employee and employers contributions. I'm sure employersw ould be over the moon at paying approx 30% contributions. You would also be relient on people actually paying for the private medical, education etc. with no safety net for the unfortunate children who's parents may have issue's drink, gambling etc.

Sweedens population is around 9-10 million and doesn't have the socio-economic problems we have or indeed the huge quantity of migrant workers or former colonial imigrants we have draining the british economy.

[salmonbuddie]

 

I don't know what the official line of Better Together is, but for me it would be to regress back to the pre devolution days. Scotland worked better when we had less politicians f**king it up. One parliament in London full of those expenses claiming wasters is more than enough for any country. 

 

As Oaksoft says - I would cut the cost of government. The Welfare State would be scrapped, as would the failing NHS, and state run education would be a thing of the past too. Instead I'd have us adopt the system that works so well in Sweden. We'd still collect in the taxes and NI but instead of the government spending the money for the people, the money would be paid out to all qualifying UK resident UK citizens and as Oaksoft says - anyone doing the simple sums can work out that it would pay out a minimum tax free dividend of £25,000 for a family of four - from which the family would have a legal responsibility to pay for their childs private education between the age of 5 and 16. Just think of the benefits - a society where there is no excuse not to work, a society where every child benefits from a private education where teachers are actually held accountable for their work, and a society where everyone benefits gets the cash in their hand to demand a better service from their healthcare provider instead of just accepting whatever old shit the NHS throws at them. The National Debt would be cleared off by the sale and rental of all public sector real estate - hospitals and schools which would be needed by private sector suppliers - an act that would free up £43Bn per annum back to the Treasury.

Is this what they mean when they talk about a "no-brainer?"

[Drew]

I had celery sticks with jalapeno hummous for lunch.

[Bud the Baker]

I had celery sticks with jalapeno hummous for lunch.

Now I understand your avatar!

[Stuart Dickson]

Sweeden a country that's basic rate of income tax is approx 48% between employee and employers contributions. I'm sure employersw ould be over the moon at paying approx 30% contributions. You would also be relient on people actually paying for the private medical, education etc. with no safety net for the unfortunate children who's parents may have issue's drink, gambling etc.

Sweedens population is around 9-10 million and doesn't have the socio-economic problems we have or indeed the huge quantity of migrant workers or former colonial imigrants we have draining the british economy.

There's no requirement to raise taxation. All of what I have proposed is in the current taxation system. We are simply copying the process of allowing citizens to chose how they spend their personal allowance for their childs education - rather than forcing them to accept a place in a local inefficient and poorly run state school.

And the safety net would exist under the carrot and stick principle. To be regarded as a UK resident UK citizen you would have to comply with certain terms and conditions - one of which being that you be "a citizen". To do that you would have to be law abiding and you would have to ensure that any children that you have be adequately provided for. Failure to do that would see the parent lose their dividend, while the childs dividend payment would then be managed on their behalf either by another close relative, or by someone who could take guardianship on behalf of the child - ie a Foster Parent.

See what I think you might not be grasping is that each individual would be entitled to the payment which using current figures would come out at a minimum of £6.300 per annum. This assumes that the total population of the UK would be entitled to receive a UK Resident UK Citizen Dividend payment. However in reality the figure is likely to be higher. This is because someone who loses entitlement would then have their funds re-assimilated back into the pot which would then be used to increase the payments made to those who remain entitled. You could lose your entitlement by failing to adequately provide for your child, or it could be a sanction used by a court to punish someone who has broken the law. Certainly someone who is in jail would lose their entitlement to their payment either for life, or for a period deemed adequate enough by a judge to cover the cost of their time in the penal system.

If you want to take the idea further then rather than pay the dividend in cash, perhaps it could be paid out - as is the case in Sweden - in vouchers. Those vouchers would be used to purchase private education for your children, private healthcare insurance for your children, and you could lock down the remain amount of money so that it can only be spent on UK manufactured products or services - there by giving our industry a huge boost increasing the number of jobs available - particularly in the manufacturing sector - and with the removal of any incentive for people to stay out of work we could hopefully move to a situation again of full employment.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Stuart Dickson

[oaksoft]

the huge quantity of migrant workers or former colonial imigrants we have draining the british economy.

Can't let you away with that bigotted pish.

How can any "worker" be draining the British economy?

And where is your evidence that it's immigrants who are doing this anyway?

[oaksoft]

No. It's sounds almost as stupid as the idea that cleaners and bin men should pay for a lawyer or a politician to go through university. Or as stupid as the idea that the taxpayer pay for Tom Farmers Viagra, or Alex Salmond weight loss pills in full without any means test.

But not quite as stupid as suggesting we should pay workers 40p per hour so we can compete with China on wages.

BTW binmen and cleaners pay no or little tax so how do you work out that they pay lawyers to go to university?

[Stuart Dickson]

But not quite as stupid as suggesting we should pay workers 40p per hour so we can compete with China on wages.

BTW binmen and cleaners pay no or little tax so how do you work out that they pay lawyers to go to university?

I've never said we should pay workers 40p per hour Oaksoft as you well know. What I was doing was highlighting the problem of the National Minimum Wage in the UK as shown in a Mary Portas TV programme in which she attempted to get an underwear manufacturer off the ground using only supplies that had been manufactured in the UK. The company continues to run and it's quite successful, however what she found was that they had to charge £15 per pair of ladies knickers as opposed to the £10 per pair average for imported goods like the Beckham brand because of the national minimum wage. They get marketed today as a premium brand and the claim is that they are a higher quality product, more comfortable etc than the competition. That may be marketing, or it may be fact. I don't tend to wear ladies underwear but the point being very well made in the programme was that whilst the National Minimum Wage remains at the level it is at, UK consumers have to be prepared to pay a premium for UK manufactured products. Sadly - as we all know - those who work those self same manufacturing jobs, who's own lively hood is at stake, are far more likely to buy their clothes from Matalan and Primark regardless of where they were manufactured.

As for the second point - as you well know - I am merely highlighting the absurdity of the Scottish Government policy on Further Education and showing how England has their policy on further education absolutely right. Any individual going into university should be expected to meet the cost themselves. After all it's their future, and their career that they are investing in. If we wish to continue with the current system in Scotland perhaps it's time that the Scottish Government enforced a ruling that those going into careers after graduating should have to provide a series of shareholder perks at heavily discounted rates to all those who invested in their future. I'm thinking along the lines of stockbrokers allowing us all free trading on shares say up to a £100,000 limit, lawyers providing us all with free wills and free conveyancing on house purchases, teachers giving up their long summer holidays to provide a free babysitting service for working parents - you know the kind of thing.

[Drew]

That's the rain on over here.

[Hew Janus]

Can't let you away with that bigotted pish.

How can any "worker" be draining the British economy?

And where is your evidence that it's immigrants who are doing this anyway?

Migrant workers by taking their british earned pound and spending or saving it outside of the UK.

I cant quote dates or exact numbers (not a complete anorak like Mr Dickson) but I remember reading a study done by one of the big english universities into the health and welfare hand-outs in the uk and what proportion per head of ethnic back ground were claiming/receiving same and the percentage's were really suprising with a number of asian communities having between 70-80% of claiments. From memory the study did not count child benifit or nhs charges. Which to my apparently small and bigotted mind suggested that when approx. three quarters of any ethnic group were removing from the system there was every possibility they were taking more than they were giving.

I would consider myself to be far from bigotted and against my better judgement I actually agree with something Mr Dickson has said previously in that to live and work in this country you should pass a citizen test and prove that you are willing and able to contribute to our society. I have always held the view that we are all born equal, we bleed when cut, cry when sad and need to shit in the morning, however it is the way you are reared that seperates us into aresholes, idiots and good saints fans(and other small local teams)

[Hew Janus]

Tom, with one third of Scottish jobs being reliant on the UK Public Sector the situation is only likely to get much worse if Scotland votes for Independence. As Westminster withdraws all it's offices back to within the boundaries of it's own influence Scotlands journey to Third World status will be complete. Mass unemployment will cripple the Scottish Economy, the failure of the Scottish Government to deal with Welfare Junkies will make our tax rate one of the highest in the world, and our wasteful investment in under developed technology like those stupid little windmills will leave Scotland with many hours of darkness as the ensuing power cuts put off all manner of investment in Scottish Companies.

The Sun newspaper used it to good effect in the past - but this time it's real. In the event of Scottish Independence would the last person to leave please turn the lights out.

Have you checked out the percentage of Sweedish jobs which are government positions possibly the highest percentage in europe at over 33% yet you hold up sweeden as a model for us!

[oaksoft]

I've never said we should pay workers 40p per hour Oaksoft as you well know. What I was doing was highlighting the problem of the National Minimum Wage in the UK as shown in a Mary Portas TV programme in which she attempted to get an underwear manufacturer off the ground using only supplies that had been manufactured in the UK. The company continues to run and it's quite successful, however what she found was that they had to charge £15 per pair of ladies knickers as opposed to the £10 per pair average for imported goods like the Beckham brand because of the national minimum wage. They get marketed today as a premium brand and the claim is that they are a higher quality product, more comfortable etc than the competition. That may be marketing, or it may be fact. I don't tend to wear ladies underwear but the point being very well made in the programme was that whilst the National Minimum Wage remains at the level it is at, UK consumers have to be prepared to pay a premium for UK manufactured products. Sadly - as we all know - those who work those self same manufacturing jobs, who's own lively hood is at stake, are far more likely to buy their clothes from Matalan and Primark regardless of where they were manufactured.

As for the second point - as you well know - I am merely highlighting the absurdity of the Scottish Government policy on Further Education and showing how England has their policy on further education absolutely right. Any individual going into university should be expected to meet the cost themselves. After all it's their future, and their career that they are investing in. If we wish to continue with the current system in Scotland perhaps it's time that the Scottish Government enforced a ruling that those going into careers after graduating should have to provide a series of shareholder perks at heavily discounted rates to all those who invested in their future. I'm thinking along the lines of stockbrokers allowing us all free trading on shares say up to a £100,000 limit, lawyers providing us all with free wills and free conveyancing on house purchases, teachers giving up their long summer holidays to provide a free babysitting service for working parents - you know the kind of thing.

Yes you did. You said we should compete on wages with China.

You said that repeatedly on another thread.

So unless you think Chinese workers get paid £7 per hour.............

As for the uni thing you might have had a case if you hadn't chosen to illustrate your point by picking two examples of people who DON'T pay for others to go to uni.

As for English students paying for their tuition fees by taking out loans. You know that almost half of students never repay the fees don't you?

Most fees will be written off meaning the English tax payer is STILL largely having to fund tuition fees for students.

To understand that it's best not to think of it as a loan because there's no obligation to pay it off.

It's essentially a graduate tax for 30 years. I thought you were against taxing people?

[oaksoft]

Migrant workers by taking their british earned pound and spending or saving it outside of the UK.

I cant quote dates or exact numbers

ETA: Actually do you know what? Your stupidity and blatant racism doesn't warrant a response.

Edited September 6, 2013 by oaksoft