Tactics... No Tictacs!

[Guest somner9]

It's been the same for us most games for the last 2/3 seasons. if we get a break (goal) the swagger comes in and we can push on (most times) but we seem to be re-inventing the wheel when it comes to putting out the right shape, make-up and personnel to do the job.

The golden rules adopted by most technically savvy coaches these days are:

Four across the back, the wing backs attack anything coming down their flanks, the two centre back are tied by an invisible piece of rope about six yards long that means where he goes, i go to give him back-up and vice versa.

When we you are under attack that back four should be in a line five yards outside the eigtheen yard box forcing any attack to go round, over or break-up. they control their zone. the wing backs can get forward safe in the knowledge that the two holding midfielders (we'll come to them) will sit back and fill in when they sprint past.

in midfield you have a similar set-up. two holding midfielders, and two playmakers. when under attack they sit infront of the four man defence again in a line forcing the opposition round, or over and controlling their zone. the two play makers are instructed to attack anything that comes forward in their zone, the holding midfielders (think, Shuggie, Aber etc) are the enforcers dishing out the discipline, moving it forward or on to a playmaker.

the play makers, ( Gowser, McLean, Harkins, Mcginn etc..we've got loads) are tasked with linking the play, composing and dominating the midfield, pushing tasty passes to the forwards, or picking up from a forward who's dropped off thus giving you an instant two-on-one with your opponent.

two up front, one further forward (Thommo) with the other (strong/pacy) think Isma continually switching wings, dropping off, making a nusciance of themselves.

Our problem.... Cheesy sits in and holds his zone, Goodwin wants to run the game and he doesn't have the skill, style or composure to do so. hence we get caught cold, end up overcompensating and feckin running into each other. Goody must think he's the only person he can trust in defence, midfield and attack. he needs telling to not move outside a ten by ten yard zone, and never be more than five yards from cheesy.

Our Biggest problem....

Danny and perhaps Tommy seem hell bent on trying every combination with our surfeit of playmakers (Gowser, McClean, McGinn, Harkins etc..) so much so they almost never seem to field two out and out holding midfielders.

One of the playmakers (for my money Gowser) would have licence to roam and play just behind/with Bahoken when possesion permits pushing those killer Messi type threaded balls through to space.

I would team Newton with McGregor, as holding midfielders that are quick, strong, a bit of skill and hardworkers who will feckin HOLD. Goody if he can't/won't get it (feck he even wants to take penalties and forward freekicks) benched for Mair who always seemed to hold his zone. the shape would look like this:

Dilo/Cornell

Dvz/Barron Cheesy Goodwin/Mair Grainger

Teale/McLean/McGinn Newton McGregor Gowser/Harkins

Bahoken/Reilly

Thommo

We sure as hell have the players, we need to end this obsession with trying to field all the paymakers leaving us short of midfield enforcers. Because thos two positions are where most of your attacks start when they break up or link up play.

[slapamythighs]

It's been the same for us most games for the last 2/3 seasons. if we get a break (goal) the swagger comes in and we can push on (most times) but we seem to be re-inventing the wheel when it comes to putting out the right shape, make-up and personnel to do the job.

The golden rules adopted by most technically savvy coaches these days are:

Four across the back, the wing backs attack anything coming down their flanks, the two centre back are tied by an invisible piece of rope about six yards long that means where he goes, i go to give him back-up and vice versa.

When we you are under attack that back four should be in a line five yards outside the eigtheen yard box forcing any attack to go round, over or break-up. they control their zone. the wing backs can get forward safe in the knowledge that the two holding midfielders (we'll come to them) will sit back and fill in when they sprint past.

in midfield you have a similar set-up. two holding midfielders, and two playmakers. when under attack they sit infront of the four man defence again in a line forcing the opposition round, or over and controlling their zone. the two play makers are instructed to attack anything that comes forward in their zone, the holding midfielders (think, Shuggie, Aber etc) are the enforcers dishing out the discipline, moving it forward or on to a playmaker.

the play makers, ( Gowser, McLean, Harkins, Mcginn etc..we've got loads) are tasked with linking the play, composing and dominating the midfield, pushing tasty passes to the forwards, or picking up from a forward who's dropped off thus giving you an instant two-on-one with your opponent.

two up front, one further forward (Thommo) with the other (strong/pacy) think Isma continually switching wings, dropping off, making a nusciance of themselves.

Our problem.... Cheesy sits in and holds his zone, Goodwin wants to run the game and he doesn't have the skill, style or composure to do so. hence we get caught cold, end up overcompensating and feckin running into each other. Goody must think he's the only person he can trust in defence, midfield and attack. he needs telling to not move outside a ten by ten yard zone, and never be more than five yards from cheesy.

Our Biggest problem....

Danny and perhaps Tommy seem hell bent on trying every combination with our surfeit of playmakers (Gowser, McClean, McGinn, Harkins etc..) so much so they almost never seem to field two out and out holding midfielders.

One of the playmakers (for my money Gowser) would have licence to roam and play just behind/with Bahoken when possesion permits pushing those killer Messi type threaded balls through to space.

I would team Newton with McGregor, as holding midfielders that are quick, strong, a bit of skill and hardworkers who will feckin HOLD. Goody if he can't/won't get it (feck he even wants to take penalties and forward freekicks) benched for Mair who always seemed to hold his zone. the shape would look like this:

Dilo/Cornell

Dvz/Barron Cheesy Goodwin/Mair Grainger

Teale/McLean/McGinn Newton McGregor Gowser/Harkins

Bahoken/Reilly

Thommo

We sure as hell have the players, we need to end this obsession with trying to field all the paymakers leaving us short of midfield enforcers. Because thos two positions are where most of your attacks start when they break up or link up play.

unfortunatley we wont be allowed to play 2-6-7-2-1 formation(or at the moment hold out for a draw with it),,,,,

[chalky1]

Think it you want to holding midfielders then the formation is something along the lines of 4 2 3 1

Dilo/Cornell

Barron Cheesy Mair Grainger

Newton McGinn

Teale McGowan Mclean

Thompson

Just my thoughts

[Wilbur]

It's been the same for us most games for the last 2/3 seasons. if we get a break (goal) the swagger comes in and we can push on (most times) but we seem to be re-inventing the wheel when it comes to putting out the right shape, make-up and personnel to do the job.

The golden rules adopted by most technically savvy coaches these days are:

Four across the back, the wing backs attack anything coming down their flanks, the two centre back are tied by an invisible piece of rope about six yards long that means where he goes, i go to give him back-up and vice versa.

When we you are under attack that back four should be in a line five yards outside the eigtheen yard box forcing any attack to go round, over or break-up. they control their zone. the wing backs can get forward safe in the knowledge that the two holding midfielders (we'll come to them) will sit back and fill in when they sprint past.

in midfield you have a similar set-up. two holding midfielders, and two playmakers. when under attack they sit infront of the four man defence again in a line forcing the opposition round, or over and controlling their zone. the two play makers are instructed to attack anything that comes forward in their zone, the holding midfielders (think, Shuggie, Aber etc) are the enforcers dishing out the discipline, moving it forward or on to a playmaker.

the play makers, ( Gowser, McLean, Harkins, Mcginn etc..we've got loads) are tasked with linking the play, composing and dominating the midfield, pushing tasty passes to the forwards, or picking up from a forward who's dropped off thus giving you an instant two-on-one with your opponent.

two up front, one further forward (Thommo) with the other (strong/pacy) think Isma continually switching wings, dropping off, making a nusciance of themselves.

Our problem.... Cheesy sits in and holds his zone, Goodwin wants to run the game and he doesn't have the skill, style or composure to do so. hence we get caught cold, end up overcompensating and feckin running into each other. Goody must think he's the only person he can trust in defence, midfield and attack. he needs telling to not move outside a ten by ten yard zone, and never be more than five yards from cheesy.

Our Biggest problem....

Danny and perhaps Tommy seem hell bent on trying every combination with our surfeit of playmakers (Gowser, McClean, McGinn, Harkins etc..) so much so they almost never seem to field two out and out holding midfielders.

One of the playmakers (for my money Gowser) would have licence to roam and play just behind/with Bahoken when possesion permits pushing those killer Messi type threaded balls through to space.

I would team Newton with McGregor, as holding midfielders that are quick, strong, a bit of skill and hardworkers who will feckin HOLD. Goody if he can't/won't get it (feck he even wants to take penalties and forward freekicks) benched for Mair who always seemed to hold his zone. the shape would look like this:

Dilo/Cornell

Dvz/Barron Cheesy Goodwin/Mair Grainger

Teale/McLean/McGinn Newton McGregor Gowser/Harkins

Bahoken/Reilly

Thommo

We sure as hell have the players, we need to end this obsession with trying to field all the paymakers leaving us short of midfield enforcers. Because thos two positions are where most of your attacks start when they break up or link up play.

Run that by me again.

[irvine_buddie]

I'd like to see us line up like this, thought defensibely we were ok against Motherwell, the goal came from poor marking by Grainger who who was poor throughout so maybe need to find someone who can play wingback better.

Dilo/Cornell

Cheesy Goodwin McGregor

Newton McGinn

Teale Mclean?

Mcgowan

Thompson Bahooky

Edited September 24, 2013 by irvine_buddie

[Guest somner9]

Run that by me again.

It's been the same for us most games for the last 2/3 seasons. if we get a break (goal) the swagger comes in and we can push on (most times) but we seem to be re-inventing the wheel when it comes to putting out the right shape, make-up and personnel to do the job.

The golden rules adopted by most technically savvy coaches these days are:

Four across the back, the wing backs attack anything coming down their flanks, the two centre back are tied by an invisible piece of rope about six yards long that means where he goes, i go to give him back-up and vice versa.

When we you are under attack that back four should be in a line five yards outside the eigtheen yard box forcing any attack to go round, over or break-up. they control their zone. the wing backs can get forward safe in the knowledge that the two holding midfielders (we'll come to them) will sit back and fill in when they sprint past.

in midfield you have a similar set-up. two holding midfielders, and two playmakers. when under attack they sit infront of the four man defence again in a line forcing the opposition round, or over and controlling their zone. the two play makers are instructed to attack anything that comes forward in their zone, the holding midfielders (think, Shuggie, Aber etc) are the enforcers dishing out the discipline, moving it forward or on to a playmaker.

the play makers, ( Gowser, McLean, Harkins, Mcginn etc..we've got loads) are tasked with linking the play, composing and dominating the midfield, pushing tasty passes to the forwards, or picking up from a forward who's dropped off thus giving you an instant two-on-one with your opponent.

two up front, one further forward (Thommo) with the other (strong/pacy) think Isma continually switching wings, dropping off, making a nusciance of themselves.

Our problem.... Cheesy sits in and holds his zone, Goodwin wants to run the game and he doesn't have the skill, style or composure to do so. hence we get caught cold, end up overcompensating and feckin running into each other. Goody must think he's the only person he can trust in defence, midfield and attack. he needs telling to not move outside a ten by ten yard zone, and never be more than five yards from cheesy.

Our Biggest problem....

Danny and perhaps Tommy seem hell bent on trying every combination with our surfeit of playmakers (Gowser, McClean, McGinn, Harkins etc..) so much so they almost never seem to field two out and out holding midfielders.

One of the playmakers (for my money Gowser) would have licence to roam and play just behind/with Bahoken when possesion permits pushing those killer Messi type threaded balls through to space.

I would team Newton with McGregor, as holding midfielders that are quick, strong, a bit of skill and hardworkers who will feckin HOLD. Goody if he can't/won't get it (feck he even wants to take penalties and forward freekicks) benched for Mair who always seemed to hold his zone. the shape would look like this:

Dilo/Cornell

Dvz/Barron Cheesy Goodwin/Mair Grainger

Teale/McLean/McGinn Newton McGregor Gowser/Harkins

Bahoken/Reilly

Thommo

We sure as hell have the players, we need to end this obsession with trying to field all the paymakers leaving us short of midfield enforcers. Because thos two positions are where most of your attacks start when they break up or link up play.

[Guest somner9]

Think it you want to holding midfielders then the formation is something along the lines of 4 2 3 1

Dilo/Cornell

Barron Cheesy Mair Grainger

Newton McGinn

Teale McGowan Mclean

Thompson

Just my thoughts

In essence I think that is the shape DL/TC try to set-up each week. but for my money they field too many playmakers, and that formation invites them to concentrate more on attacking/waiting for someone else to enforce our game on the midfield area.

for know I'd keep it simple 4-4-2 with bahoken dropping off Thommo and Gowser pushing up to link with them both.

Defo need Newton and McGregor to give us the steel that Shuggie, Aber etc gave us in the middle.

[Mearns Saint]

Some of the best football i have seen us play under Lennon was 2 seasons agao when we had Hasslebaink and Steven Thomson (the sparow) in the team. I don't think we really replaced either.

In that time of flowing, entertaining football we had Goodwin and Thomson as holding midfielders or sometimes one of them with McLean or Haddad or Murray when fit. This allowed our creative players like McGowan, Hasslebaink, Teale, Carey and McLean to actually be creative, take more risks and have that protection from the two holding players.

Now, i'm not saying the Thomson was a superstar as near the end of his time with us he was perhaps one of our weaker players, however what he did have was experience. Our holding midfield pairing this season do not have that. Newton has a lot of potential but nobody alongside him to keep him in check. I don't think that McLean or McGinn are ever holding/ball winning midfielders so asking them to do this role is purely just to fit them into the team so no star players miss out. This leaves us very lightweight in the middle and too unbalanced.

We need two ball winning midfielders in the holding role so I would try out Newton and Goodwin. If Goodwin can't cut anymore there then we need to find someone else who can.

Hasslebaink is another one who we've never played, except from perhaps Goncalves. He was someone who could turn defence into attack and was always a great outlet to have due to his skill, low centre of gravity and raw pace. We don't have that anymore and our only outlet is Teale which many opposition clock on to.

[Guest somner9]

Some of the best football i have seen us play under Lennon was 2 seasons agao when we had Hasslebaink and Steven Thomson (the sparow) in the team. I don't think we really replaced either.

In that time of flowing, entertaining football we had Goodwin and Thomson as holding midfielders or sometimes one of them with McLean or Haddad or Murray when fit. This allowed our creative players like McGowan, Hasslebaink, Teale, Carey and McLean to actually be creative, take more risks and have that protection from the two holding players.

Now, i'm not saying the Thomson was a superstar as near the end of his time with us he was perhaps one of our weaker players, however what he did have was experience. Our holding midfield pairing this season do not have that. Newton has a lot of potential but nobody alongside him to keep him in check. I don't think that McLean or McGinn are ever holding/ball winning midfielders so asking them to do this role is purely just to fit them into the team so no star players miss out. This leaves us very lightweight in the middle and too unbalanced.

We need two ball winning midfielders in the holding role so I would try out Newton and Goodwin. If Goodwin can't cut anymore there then we need to find someone else who can.

Hasslebaink is another one who we've never played, except from perhaps Goncalves. He was someone who could turn defence into attack and was always a great outlet to have due to his skill, low centre of gravity and raw pace. We don't have that anymore and our only outlet is Teale which many opposition clock on to.

Goodwin would be a good call as holding midfielder, he's done that for us before, but he runs all over the park trying to get involved in everything and deserts his post.

Thomson (departed) could never be accused of running all over the park

[davidg]

Four across the back, the wing backs attack anything coming down their flanks, the two centre back are tied by an invisible piece of rope about six yards long that means where he goes, i go to give him back-up and vice versa.

Our problem.... Cheesy sits in and holds his zone, Goodwin wants to run the game and he doesn't have the skill, style or composure to do so. hence we get caught cold, end up overcompensating and feckin running into each other. Goody must think he's the only person he can trust in defence, midfield and attack. he needs telling to not move outside a ten by ten yard zone, and never be more than five yards from cheesy.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

You want Cheesy and Goody tied by an invisible rope 10 yards long instead of 6 and the first 5 yards of this rope must be rigid?

[irvine_buddie]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

You want Cheesy and Goody tied by an invisible rope 10 yards long instead of 6 and the first 5 yards of this rope must be rigid?

Who's side is rigid Cheesy's or Goodwin's? Have strange images in my head now of Goodwin running around the park with Macausland getting pulled along behind

[Mearns Saint]

I would even have McGregor in the holding midfield role rather than him sitting on the bench. Could really help shore up the midfield and take some pressure off our defence which have no protection.

[saltcoatsbuddie]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

You want Cheesy and Goody tied by an invisible rope 10 yards long instead of 6 and the first 5 yards of this rope must be rigid?

well it would certainly be better than 500 yards apart ,which is what usually happens when the opposition is attacking us

[Mearns Saint]

Goodwin would be a good call as holding midfielder, he's done that for us before, but he runs all over the park trying to get involved in everything and deserts his post.

Thomson (departed) could never be accused of running all over the park

Wee tommo did still chip in with a decent return of goals each season

[Guest somner9]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

You want Cheesy and Goody tied by an invisible rope 10 yards long instead of 6 and the first 5 yards of this rope must be rigid?

Didn't have you down as one of the 'Hard of Thinking'...

They say discussing tactics, formation and shape and trying to get most team members to understand is a thankless task. Seems that extends to some of the support as well.

[Guest somner9]

Wee tommo did still chip in with a decent return of goals each season

That he did, and he stuck to his task which perhaps shows what DL is missing as we've never had a good holding midfield combo since he went.... it ain't rocket science

[Lord_Flatcap]

It's been the same for us most games for the last 2/3 seasons. if we get a break (goal) the swagger comes in and we can push on (most times) but we seem to be re-inventing the wheel when it comes to putting out the right shape, make-up and personnel to do the job.

The golden rules adopted by most technically savvy coaches these days are:

Four across the back, the wing backs attack anything coming down their flanks, the two centre back are tied by an invisible piece of rope about six yards long that means where he goes, i go to give him back-up and vice versa.

When we you are under attack that back four should be in a line five yards outside the eigtheen yard box forcing any attack to go round, over or break-up. they control their zone. the wing backs can get forward safe in the knowledge that the two holding midfielders (we'll come to them) will sit back and fill in when they sprint past.

in midfield you have a similar set-up. two holding midfielders, and two playmakers. when under attack they sit infront of the four man defence again in a line forcing the opposition round, or over and controlling their zone. the two play makers are instructed to attack anything that comes forward in their zone, the holding midfielders (think, Shuggie, Aber etc) are the enforcers dishing out the discipline, moving it forward or on to a playmaker.

the play makers, ( Gowser, McLean, Harkins, Mcginn etc..we've got loads) are tasked with linking the play, composing and dominating the midfield, pushing tasty passes to the forwards, or picking up from a forward who's dropped off thus giving you an instant two-on-one with your opponent.

two up front, one further forward (Thommo) with the other (strong/pacy) think Isma continually switching wings, dropping off, making a nusciance of themselves.

Our problem.... Cheesy sits in and holds his zone, Goodwin wants to run the game and he doesn't have the skill, style or composure to do so. hence we get caught cold, end up overcompensating and feckin running into each other. Goody must think he's the only person he can trust in defence, midfield and attack. he needs telling to not move outside a ten by ten yard zone, and never be more than five yards from cheesy.

Our Biggest problem....

Danny and perhaps Tommy seem hell bent on trying every combination with our surfeit of playmakers (Gowser, McClean, McGinn, Harkins etc..) so much so they almost never seem to field two out and out holding midfielders.

One of the playmakers (for my money Gowser) would have licence to roam and play just behind/with Bahoken when possesion permits pushing those killer Messi type threaded balls through to space.

I would team Newton with McGregor, as holding midfielders that are quick, strong, a bit of skill and hardworkers who will feckin HOLD. Goody if he can't/won't get it (feck he even wants to take penalties and forward freekicks) benched for Mair who always seemed to hold his zone. the shape would look like this:

Dilo/Cornell

Dvz/Barron Cheesy Goodwin/Mair Grainger

Teale/McLean/McGinn Newton McGregor Gowser/Harkins

Bahoken/Reilly

Thommo

We sure as hell have the players, we need to end this obsession with trying to field all the paymakers leaving us short of midfield enforcers. Because thos two positions are where most of your attacks start when they break up or link up play.

Play mcgregor at left mid in a 4-4-2? You've flipped it moon pie

[ALBIONSAINT]

A wise man once said, "There are many tactics, but only two kinds of tictacs, mint or orange"

I thank you.