The Referendum Thread

[FTOF]

Maybe you should pay attention, ya Muppet. Your post on the energy situation is just so typical. You simply denigrate anything that's said without proof. Fear is all you can come out with. What are we hearing from the SNP? Hee-Haw because we all know they've been told to zip it by Salmond and his glove puppet Sturgeon. At least Westminster MP's and government officials are allowed freedom of speech and of course you get daft statements. They're MP's, what the hell do you expect? Do you think MP's get selected for brainpower?

Only five months and nine days to go. Whoopee!

Indeed.

Scaremongering.

Why else would anyone post such statements with no proof to back them up?

The SNP are staying quiet at present, because BT are doing a fine job in garnering more votes for the "Yes" campaign.

Where's the need to speak out in favour 5 months before the event, especially given the aforementioned own goals that BT are currently scoring daily.

The SNP are pissing themselves at the complete ineptness of BT and their supporters, as nothing positive ever comes from their press releases.

Instead, Mr.Salmond is talking about partnerships and working with other nations. Meanwhile, the UK government continue to alienate themselves from Europe, threaten countries that don't do what they're told and foster untruths.

You really, really should check your posts before you press the button.

Maybe it's your rage affecting the quality of your posts, because the truth hurts, but you really should calm down.

Edited April 9, 2014 by FTOF

[RickMcD]

Indeed.

Scaremongering.

Why else would anyone post such statements with no proof to back them up?

The SNP are staying quiet at present, because BT are doing a fine job in garnering more votes for the "Yes" campaign.

Where's the need to speak out in favour 5 months before the event, especially given the aforementioned own goals that BT are currently scoring daily.

The SNP are pissing themselves at the complete ineptness of BT and their supporters, as nothing positive ever comes from their press releases.

Instead, Mr.Salmond is talking about partnerships and working with other nations. Meanwhile, the UK government continue to alienate themselves from Europe, threaten countries that don't do what they're told and foster untruths.

You really, really should check your posts before you press the button.

Maybe it's your rage affecting the quality of your posts, because the truth hurts, but you really should calm down.

When I read posts like this I have trouble making up my mind whether I'm reading Alice In Wonderland or Alex In Blunderland. I couldn't get arsed being in a rage with the infantile stuff that appears regularly but I do enjoy winding folk up. It's getting too easy though.

One thing maybe I haven't made clear is that I think both sides are behaving like absolute tossers. It's not the prerogative of the SNP or the No crowd. If I had a vote it would be 'no' simply because I think Scottish Independence is plain wrong. I respond to things that get posted here but I can't respond to a party that's saying zilch. You think it's tactical. I think it's because the hastily put together white paper raises more questions than it answers. I also come back to the indecent haste post but I see why Salmond rushed it.

[FTOF]

When I read posts like this I have trouble making up my mind whether I'm reading Alice In Wonderland or Alex In Blunderland. I couldn't get arsed being in a rage with the infantile stuff that appears regularly but I do enjoy winding folk up. It's getting too easy though.

One thing maybe I haven't made clear is that I think both sides are behaving like absolute tossers. It's not the prerogative of the SNP or the No crowd. If I had a vote it would be 'no' simply because I think Scottish Independence is plain wrong. I respond to things that get posted here but I can't respond to a party that's saying zilch. You think it's tactical. I think it's because the hastily put together white paper raises more questions than it answers. I also come back to the indecent haste post but I see why Salmond rushed it.

It would seem to me that the only person getting wound up is your good self.

The "Yes" campaign know fine well that it is huge gamble to vote for independence. However, what we in Scotland have at the moment isn't what the "Yes" campaign think works best for the country.

I know I'm right about the current SNP silence, as I've spoken to someone heavily involved in the "Yes" campaign, who incidentally isn't an SNP supporter, and there are plenty of that particular ilk of "Yes" supporter. They didn't plan it this way, but they've adapted to circumstances that they could only dream of coming to pass as they didn't think BT would be so short sighted and so negative.

Of course a lot of the Independence plans involve unknowns, but for me, so are much of the UK Governments London centric, future plans. Who would have thought a "Bedroom tax" would ever have come to fruition?

The BT campaign has been viciously negative and has largely written off the Scots as a nation at almost every opportunity. The UK Government's bluff has been called several times and they've failed to offer a realistic explanation as to why they've lied to everyone.

Like it or not, this type of attitude has increased the feeling for Independence amongst the Scottish population. Whether these people have the conviction to vote "Yes" when the day eventually comes, we'll have to wait and see.

What has happened is that the smug assertion that it would be a walkover for the "No" vote, has left some people with egg on their face.

I've never been involved in politics and my decision isn't entirely based on political ideologies. My decision is based on what I perceive as poor running of our country by a UK government that does not have our best interests at heart. It won't be easy and I'll have to make some sacrifices, but in the end I believe Scotland will be better off in the long term, if we show some belief in ourselves.

I would also add that I don't agree with every SNP policy that exists and I'm not entirely happy with the Scottish Government's decisions. In the event of a "Yes" vote, at least we can take full responsibility for our actions and try to rectify the situation.

Edited April 9, 2014 by FTOF

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Will it ever end?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26939252

Project Fear are going into overload this week.

So, its in Scotland's interest to keep supplying renewable energy to uk (or whatever it would be called) and it's in uk's interest to keep purchasing energy through the existing grid from renewable sources in Scotland.

Is Ed Davey expecting the voters of uk (including Scotland) to believe that this wont happen? I am sure the English, N.Irish and Welsh will be happy to pay more for energy from a more reliable source like say Russia...

Interesting quote from ewing - "The net upshot of all of this is that prices will rise because the UK has failed in its primary objective of securing sufficient indigenous electricity supply."

Also interesting that Ed Davey doesnt mention the current Grid Connection Charging system that sees energy suppliers based in London charged £3 per KW and a power station in say Peterhead charged £20 per KW.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

It would seem to me that the only person getting wound up is your good self.

The "Yes" campaign know fine well that it is huge gamble to vote for independence. However, what we in Scotland have at the moment isn't what the "Yes" campaign think works best for the country.

I know I'm right about the current SNP silence, as I've spoken to someone heavily involved in the "Yes" campaign, who incidentally isn't an SNP supporter, and there are plenty of that particular ilk of "Yes" supporter. They didn't plan it this way, but they've adapted to circumstances that they could only dream of coming to pass as they didn't think BT would be so short sighted and so negative.

Of course a lot of the Independence plans involve unknowns, but for me, so are much of the UK Governments London centric, future plans. Who would have thought a "Bedroom tax" would ever have come to fruition?

The BT campaign has been viciously negative and has largely written off the Scots as a nation at almost every opportunity. The UK Government's bluff has been called several times and they've failed to offer a realistic explanation as to why they've lied to everyone.

Like it or not, this type of attitude has increased the feeling for Independence amongst the Scottish population. Whether these people have the conviction to vote "Yes" when the day eventually comes, we'll have to wait and see.

What has happened is that the smug assertion that it would be a walkover for the "No" vote, has left some people with egg on their face.

I've never been involved in politics and my decision isn't entirely based on political ideologies. My decision is based on what I perceive as poor governing of our country by a UK government that does not have our best interests at heart. It won't be easy and I'll have to make some sacrifices, but in the end I believe Scotland will be better off in the long term, if we show some belief in ourselves.

Which is why we have seen them asking Putin to intervene, when that failed to materialise they sent all the embassies instruction on contacting local governments to intervene.

Yesterday we had Lord NawNaw asking the yanks to get involved...

[Vambo57]

Stupid statement which confirms my view that a lot of you guys post rubbish without even thinking. I have read the white paper. My wife's brother in law is a staunch tory so he and I have argued the bit out for years. This referendum debacle thingy is just about the first thing we've agreed about. He sent me a copy ages ago. And I can assure you that a fair number of people living over here can vote in your referendum. Military personnel for a start. And guys working here full time who still have a home in Scotland can qualify. Anyway, who the f**k are you to say that Scots living abroad can't even have an opinion? Glad you guys won't win with that version of democracy.

Chill mate and stop abusing folk! You really are an angry man. Who said you can't have an opinion? Stop making things up in a Studick type way. What I did state was that you had no vote and it seems you are raging about it.

I still don't believe you have read the White Paper, at least not all of it. Be honest. Why would you?

Which is why we have seen them asking Putin to intervene, when that failed to materialise they sent all the embassies instruction on contacting local governments to intervene.

Yesterday we had Lord NawNaw asking the yanks to get involved...

Yeh the Yanks... how did that Boston Tea Party go again? Good luck with that George. At least we will not have to ffght a war for our wee party.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Vambo57

[Stuart Dickson]

Indeed.

Scaremongering.

Why else would anyone post such statements with no proof to back them up?

The SNP are staying quiet at present, because BT are doing a fine job in garnering more votes for the "Yes" campaign.

Where's the need to speak out in favour 5 months before the event, especially given the aforementioned own goals that BT are currently scoring daily.

The SNP are pissing themselves at the complete ineptness of BT and their supporters, as nothing positive ever comes from their press releases.

Instead, Mr.Salmond is talking about partnerships and working with other nations. Meanwhile, the UK government continue to alienate themselves from Europe, threaten countries that don't do what they're told and foster untruths.

You really, really should check your posts before you press the button.

Maybe it's your rage affecting the quality of your posts, because the truth hurts, but you really should calm down.

Ooft. And the Yes campaign wants us to believe that the No campaign is guilty of running a negative campaign....Yet here FTOF states that the Yes campaign have got it right in providing no proof, no evidence and no debate beyond sneering at every expert opinion. I guess you can't really blame them. Alex Salmond has made a healthy career as a politician out of those very traits. Of course his career will come to an end after the population of Scotland boots Independence into touch for another decade or so in September and he'll be remembered in history as an embarrassing failure, just like his old pals at RBS.

If you want to look at the points being made by both sides on the energy debate the arguments should be pretty obvious. Alex Salmond raised the issue by trying to get the UK to commit to a jointly managed national grid post independence. He claimed this was because the obvious benefit to both countries was in the ease of importing and exporting electricity across the border and in many ways this is true - however the Westminster Government are also correct in their assertions that any energy minister would have to look after their populaces best interests by buying energy from the cheapest, most efficient source - which could just as easily be France or Ireland as it could be Scotland. Certainly France would be closer and more efficient in supplying the South East of England where the biggest problem is predicted to be most likely to occur.

In terms of cost of domestic supply of electricity and gas it's not hard to work out either. The Scottish Highlands and Islands are some of the most remote populations in the UK. If power lines go down in Lewis, Skye, Wick, Thurso, Shetlands, or the Orkney, etc there is obviously a greater cost to get engineers to site than there is around the majority of the rest of the UK. Currently the cost of maintaining those supplys is shared around the 26.4m households in the UK. Take households in England, Wales and Northern Ireland out of the equation and now the same costs have to be borne by 2.37m households in Scotland. The obvious effect of that is rising energy prices in Scotland. To claim that is scaremongering is utter nonsense. It's simple logic.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I guess since the french gov has a significant share in the new nuclear stations being built in England it makes sense for them to supply power to south east England as well. Talk about putting all your eggs in the one basket...

[Stuart Dickson]

I guess since the french gov has a significant share in the new nuclear stations being built in England it makes sense for them to supply power to south east England as well. Talk about putting all your eggs in the one basket...

What? You mean like an Independent Scotland appears to want to do? After all you aren't going to be able to export the difficult to store electricity generated by those windmills on the days when the wind does happen to blow in the right direction to Brazil or the USA. And talking about all your energy eggs being on one privately owned basket - what exactly would have happened if Unite hadn't backed down in the recent Ineos strike at Grangemouth?

As is always the case the most secure future for Scotland is in a secure political union with the rest of the United Kingdom. We're so much better together.

[Seaside Nipper]

Its certainly not a hit in the pocket, I didnt say taxes would rise or fall. No one can say with certainty what taxes we will continue to pay in uk, although it should however be noted that UK is one of the most heavily taxed nations -not direct income tax but the hidden taxes that we all pay.

Re the price of your diesel - you should bear in mind that the current uk chancellor has postponed (not cancelled) the last few fuel duty rises in the previous budgets - therefore, your diesel tax will rise in future uk budgets

Re the diesel price. Currently iirc circa 70% or thereabouts is a tax take by Westminster. My naive thoughts were that a more responsive , central administration would perhaps consider shifting that outrageous tax take. The fuel duty levy at present is frankly institutional robbery. Surely a representative Government would look at this,

I'd like to know what if any proposals there are into what an independent Government would do on this. Hee haw is my take. That is disappointing

[Seaside Nipper]

Kerry Gill writing in todays Daily Express referred to those going to vote YES as the enemy

Interesting , and not in the slightest bit surprising.

The last time I was in Oxford , for a family wedding, I was rather rudely advised that my "Scotch notes were no good in here " Ffsake this was in the hotel bar of the wedding reception. Well, ragin.com. I asked to see the duty manager and she advised me that it was hotel policy not to accept Scotch notes!

Well, shine a light , at that point I requested that my colleague, a serving police officer log a note and call intimating that I was to make a complaint , the hotel was refusing to take legal tender , promise to pay the bearer and all that, and that I was being victimised. Lol, within a flash the manager attended , profusely apologised and gave us a bottle by way of apology. "Cheers then , profoundly sorry blah de blah , new staff, short staffed blah de blah "

Point is , it seems that as a nation we are often exposed to this kind of ignorant, snide, so called racist banter, derogatory innuendo and quite frankly casual racism. The next time someone dahn south casually calls me Jock, I think I'll deck them , yes I will, I'll deck them. Funny how the little Englander's call it friendly banter , and us lot should get over ourselves ? Really , it's enough to make you say YES. I mean it appears we already have our own single currency according to Oxford catering and hospitality trumpets.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Seaside Nipper

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Re the diesel price. Currently iirc circa 70% or thereabouts is a tax take by Westminster. My naive thoughts were that a more responsive , central administration would perhaps consider shifting that outrageous tax take. The fuel duty levy at present is frankly institutional robbery. Surely a representative Government would look at this,

I'd like to know what if any proposals there are into what an independent Government would do on this. Hee haw is my take. That is disappointing

I honestly couldn't tell you what independent Scottish governments will do in the future regarding fuel duty. Its one of these things that we cant predict - neither can westminster although they do like to point out that oil is too volatile a resource for wee scotland to manage on its own

here's a wee thought though, imagine the price of fuel being significantly cheaper and having less tax in Scotland than in England - all that increased tax take for holyrood as the motorists of yorkshire, lancashire, cumbria and northumberland head north to fill up

[smcc]

There would be a big difference to the Northern Atlantic Alliance defence strategy if nuclear subs were taken out of Faslane and it was replaced with the single conventional submarine that the proposed SNP defence budget could finance.

Could that wonderful country, the RUK, not find somewhere to berth their nuclear submarines? No one is suggesting that a single Scottish sub could replace the nuclear subs.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Could that wonderful country, the RUK, not find somewhere to berth their nuclear submarines? No one is suggesting that a single Scottish sub could replace the nuclear subs.

there isnt usually more than 1 uk sub in the Atlantic at any one time at the moment.

Of course uk cant afford to replace trident and only wish to do so as it helps keep a seat on the UN security council. The word coming out of US over the last couple of years is that they would rather we didnt replace and built up our conventional military hardware instead. No doubt this would allow uk to play a bigger part in the collateral damage for us

[saintnextlifetime]

So, its in Scotland's interest to keep supplying renewable energy to uk (or whatever it would be called) and it's in uk's interest to keep purchasing energy through the existing grid from renewable sources in Scotland.

Is Ed Davey expecting the voters of uk (including Scotland) to believe that this wont happen? I am sure the English, N.Irish and Welsh will be happy to pay more for energy from a more reliable source like say Russia...

Interesting quote from ewing - "The net upshot of all of this is that prices will rise because the UK has failed in its primary objective of securing sufficient indigenous electricity supply."

Also interesting that Ed Davey doesnt mention the current Grid Connection Charging system that sees energy suppliers based in London charged £3 per KW and a power station in say Peterhead charged £20 per KW.

It is my understanding that , the energy companies , per what they have been saying , is that they are targeted by the UK government to build "green energy" generating sites . If they fail to do so , they are subject to fines .

In turn the energy companies have said that the rise in consumer energy tariffs , is the direst result of the government forcing them to invest in green energy , and let's face it they have been seen to do it . BG recently opened a huge wind farm site off the East Coast of Englaterra. .

Edited April 10, 2014 by saintnextlifetime

[saintnextlifetime]

Interesting , and not in the slightest bit surprising.

The last time I was in Oxford , for a family wedding, I was rather rudely advised that my "Scotch notes were no good in here " Ffsake this was in the hotel bar of the wedding reception. Well, ragin.com. I asked to see the duty manager and she advised me that it was hotel policy not to accept Scotch notes!

Well, shine a light , at that point I requested that my colleague, a serving police officer log a note and call intimating that I was to make a complaint , the hotel was refusing to take legal tender , promise to pay the bearer and all that, and that I was being victimised. Lol, within a flash the manager attended , profusely apologised and gave us a bottle by way of apology. "Cheers then , profoundly sorry blah de blah , new staff, short staffed blah de blah "

Point is , it seems that as a nation we are often exposed to this kind of ignorant, snide, so called racist banter, derogatory innuendo and quite frankly casual racism. The next time someone dahn south casually calls me Jock, I think I'll deck them , yes I will, I'll deck them. Funny how the little Englander's call it friendly banter , and us lot should get over ourselves ? Really , it's enough to make you say YES. I mean it appears we already have our own single currency according to Oxford catering and hospitality trumpets.

Sorry , what does that actually mean, SN. .

[Bud Bundy]

When I read posts like this I have trouble making up my mind whether I'm reading Stu Dick in a wishaw Wonderland or Roddy In Chingford. I couldn't get aroused being in a rage with the errection that appears regularly but I do enjoy self indulgence in a particular . It's getting too easy though.

One thing maybe I haven't made clear is that I think both Me and Dicko are absolute tossers. It's not the prerogative of the Bangor Nit Pickers or this Forum, Had, I a vote it would be ' Wait till, I see the Mrs ' simply because I think, I am plain wrong. I respond to things that get posted here but I can't respond to a public that's saying zilch. You think it's naïve of mel. I think it's because the hastily put together shit that, I spout raises more questions than answers. I also come to the indecent incident with me and some unnamed individual poster, But I see why Sid rushed it. ?

Telling it how it is pRICK ?

[Stuart Dickson]

Interesting , and not in the slightest bit surprising.

The last time I was in Oxford , for a family wedding, I was rather rudely advised that my "Scotch notes were no good in here " Ffsake this was in the hotel bar of the wedding reception. Well, ragin.com. I asked to see the duty manager and she advised me that it was hotel policy not to accept Scotch notes!

Well, shine a light , at that point I requested that my colleague, a serving police officer log a note and call intimating that I was to make a complaint , the hotel was refusing to take legal tender , promise to pay the bearer and all that, and that I was being victimised. Lol, within a flash the manager attended , profusely apologised and gave us a bottle by way of apology. "Cheers then , profoundly sorry blah de blah , new staff, short staffed blah de blah "

Point is , it seems that as a nation we are often exposed to this kind of ignorant, snide, so called racist banter, derogatory innuendo and quite frankly casual racism. The next time someone dahn south casually calls me Jock, I think I'll deck them , yes I will, I'll deck them. Funny how the little Englander's call it friendly banter , and us lot should get over ourselves ? Really , it's enough to make you say YES. I mean it appears we already have our own single currency according to Oxford catering and hospitality trumpets.

Could that wonderful country, the RUK, not find somewhere to berth their nuclear submarines? No one is suggesting that a single Scottish sub could replace the nuclear subs.

there isnt usually more than 1 uk sub in the Atlantic at any one time at the moment.

Of course uk cant afford to replace trident and only wish to do so as it helps keep a seat on the UN security council. The word coming out of US over the last couple of years is that they would rather we didnt replace and built up our conventional military hardware instead. No doubt this would allow uk to play a bigger part in the collateral damage for us

Oh so now NATO WANTS to disarm Faslane. I'll look forward to seeing the proof of this soon, and I don't mean a link to some silly Natsi propaganda Web page.

[salmonbuddie]

BG recently opened a huge wind farm site of the East Coast of Englaterra. .

Those fekkin Natsis and their silly windmills again. I blame aliksammin and yon fishwife, if it's a Yes I'm off to Wales, nae windmills to tilt at there.

[smcc]

Oh so now NATO WANTS to disarm Faslane. I'll look forward to seeing the proof of this soon, and I don't mean a link to some silly Natsi propaganda Web page.

Where was it suggested that NATO wants to disarm Faslane? All that mosts Scots want is for the UK to move the subs, preferably to somewhere close to London.

[RickMcD]

Where was it suggested that NATO wants to disarm Faslane? All that mosts Scots want is for the UK to move the subs, preferably to somewhere close to London.

A genuine, no strings attached question. Do the majority of Scots want the subs moved? That base must be a nice little earner. I'm afraid I'm old enough to remember the 'Go Home Yanks' stramash when they came to the Holy Loch. I also remember the 'Please Don't Go' appeals when Dunoon's economy was about to get a bit knackered. And why London? In the unlikely event of a nuclear war it won't matter where the Nukes are. Just ask Private Fraser. As a a fella that grew up in the 60's in the cold war, I have absolutey no doubt at all that the USA and USSR would have been at it hammer and tongs but for the fear of an absolutely horrendous nuclear war. And that possibly still applies today. Putin is a wee bit frightening.

[madball]

Interesting , and not in the slightest bit surprising.

The last time I was in Oxford , for a family wedding, I was rather rudely advised that my "Scotch notes were no good in here " Ffsake this was in the hotel bar of the wedding reception. Well, ragin.com. I asked to see the duty manager and she advised me that it was hotel policy not to accept Scotch notes!

Well, shine a light , at that point I requested that my colleague, a serving police officer log a note and call intimating that I was to make a complaint , the hotel was refusing to take legal tender , promise to pay the bearer and all that, and that I was being victimised. Lol, within a flash the manager attended , profusely apologised and gave us a bottle by way of apology. "Cheers then , profoundly sorry blah de blah , new staff, short staffed blah de blah "

Point is , it seems that as a nation we are often exposed to this kind of ignorant, snide, so called racist banter, derogatory innuendo and quite frankly casual racism. The next time someone dahn south casually calls me Jock, I think I'll deck them , yes I will, I'll deck them. Funny how the little Englander's call it friendly banter , and us lot should get over ourselves ? Really , it's enough to make you say YES. I mean it appears we already have our own single currency according to Oxford catering and hospitality trumpets.

Good story... although the hotel were quite right to reserve the right to refuse them if they wanted as they aren't "Legal Tender"

http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php

[irvine_buddie]

Where was it suggested that NATO wants to disarm Faslane? All that mosts Scots want is for the UK to move the subs, preferably to somewhere close to London.

I don't think most Scots care or would even have been aware (before independance talk) that the subs are in Helensburgh.

I work at the base and I know it would destroy the surrounding areas if the base was shut down as 80% of people who work here live in the Helensburgh/Balloch/Dumbarton area.

Edited April 10, 2014 by irvine_buddie

[Lex]

I don't think most Scots care or would even have been aware (before independance talk) that the subs are in Helensburgh.

I work at the base and I know it would destroy the surrounding areas if the base was shut down as 80% of people who work here live in the Helensburgh/Balloch/Dumbarton area.

Exactly. The consequences for that regions economy would be devastating if the Nat Clowns get their way. Thankfully, they won't.

Another new poll released today has more good news for our union of nations. 47-37 to the good guys. Support for separation down 2 points from this time last month:

http://bettertogether.net/blog/entry/campaign-to-keep-scotland-in-the-uk-increases-lead-new-poll-reveals

Can't wait for September!

[Drew]

I don't think most Scots care or would even have been aware (before independance talk) that the subs are in Helensburgh.

I work at the base and I know it would destroy the surrounding areas if the base was shut down as 80% of people who work here live in the Helensburgh/Balloch/Dumbarton area.

This is a myth.

I live in the area, and know enough about the local history and demography to see through the oft trotted out position that the likes of Jackie Baillie (local MSP) and other BT folks cling to. It is emotive, and obviously resonantes locally, but is easy enough to refute.

The local economy has evolved over recent decades, with very significant shifts in employment patterns. 30 - 40 years ago, a couple of the biggest employers in the area were Westclox (around 1100 employees) and Polariod (as much as 2000 employees at its peak). Both were based at the Strathleven Industrial estate, which , at its height, provided employment for in excess of 4000 people. Polaroid has all but closed its operations, and now employs a fraction of the number it previously did. Westclox is no longer in existance, and several other big employers have either moved away or shut down entirely.

Did the loss of all these job opportunities destroy the local area? Well, it certainly didn't help. Add to that, the loss of numerous whisky bonds and bottling plants over the years, and we do have a depressed economy in many respects, but, increasingly, this area has become a commuter belt. Half an hour by car or train to Glasgow, and 10 minutes from the M8, while other commercial enterprises have developed and enhanced the local economy. You just have to look at the number of new houses being built at the Lomond Gate development area (just off the A82 past Dumbarton en route to Balloch) to get a sense of the growth locally. These new build estates aren't materialising on the basis of Faslane being 12 miles down the road.

Many of the folk working at the Faslane base have transferable skills/qualifications. I know qualified engineers, joiners, and mechanics, who are MOD Police officers (or MOD Plod, as we refer to them). They could reasonably be expected to have a continuing role if the base was to be utilised for a small naval fleet in the event that the Trident subs departed. An independent Scotland woud still require a fleet of ships to patrol national waters etc. If the jobs weren't there, the money saved in not having to fund the nuclear deterrent (the proportion of that cost that lies with Scotland) could be used to generate new industry locally. This happens all over the country, and in nations across the globe. Economies are constantly evolving, and there is a requirement to reallign local community priorities to acknowledge and respond to this.

I'm not being glib about this. I appreciate that it is an anxiety for many people, and would require a lot of will and commitment to address, but is this really a justification for maintaining a site for abhorrent weapons that cost billions to maintain?

Edited April 10, 2014 by Drew