Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 He is an ex Civil Servant who works for Better Together as a devolution expert. I know we all love to pick and choose what experts we listen to based on what way they are going to vote, but his expertise on the subject is well known. And as I say he's immediately more credible because he is prepared to speak out using his own name, rather than posting under an internet pseudonym. Now talking of experts Professor John Kay and Sir David Edwards were being used in much the same way by the Yes Campaign to support their campaign. In recent weeks Sir David Edwards - a European Legal Expert - who Alex Salmond regularly quoted has said he's voting No cause the European case Alex Salmond cites for Scotland in the EU is too riddled with uncertainty. And leading economic expert John Kay has said he's voting No because it's misleading to claim that Scots will be wealthier in an Independent Scotland. Stop posting shite and claiming its fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Personally, I wish he'd f**k off out of England and stop bumping his gums down here about a vote that he's denying to Scots in England. He's only in England cause the FT invited him to speak at an International conference/ event thingy. Surely the location is purely coincidental Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 He's only in England cause the FT invited him to speak at an International conference/ event thingy. Surely the location is purely coincidental He's done a few.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28334577 A few too many. He wants a wee tight, secret-society type election, so he shouldnae pontificate to those he refuses to invite. He should f**k off back to his own country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Maybe they need to stop inviting him then ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Maybe they need to stop inviting him then ;-) At last! We agree on something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 He wants a wee tight, secret-society type election, so he shouldnae pontificate to those he refuses to invite. He should f**k off back to his own country. B minus for trolling attempt and C minus for Dickson impersonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 He's done a few. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28334577 A few too many. He wants a wee tight, secret-society type election, so he shouldnae pontificate to those he refuses to invite. He should f**k off back to his own country. Refuses to invite? The people that live in the country? Are you just miffed that you don't get a vote? By that logic, you shouldn't get a vote in London then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 No of course not as there is no legislation allowing them to do so. If they wish to make some, it will take years as all 28 current states will need to negotiate it which will involve a lot of boaby waving and national posturing (mainly from uk). Will this is all "negotiated" Scotland remains part of EU (and indeed part of uk until March 2016) its the uk that is a member of the euif Scotland leaves the uk then it also leaves the eu are you telling porkies again or are you just thick as f**k? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) For the daftys or just those in denial:- Although the Scottish NHS is seperate (always has been) from rest of uk and controlled via devolved government, it is however funded based on Barnett formula which allocates a % of monies spent in England to Scotland. Therefore, if NHS in England continues to be privatised, there will be less public money spent on health in England meaning less money allocated to Scotland. Less money to spend means either cuts in healthcare or privatising services deary me, you really are thick as f**k!even if the nhs subcontracted everything out to private companies it would still get paid from public money what a clown you are Edited July 18, 2014 by Isabella Duke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 deary me, you really are thick as f**k! even if the nhs subcontracted everything out to private companies it would still get paid from public money what a clown you are : Smilies and abuse, mods, when will you sort this guy out? Oh and, still NAW!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Refuses to invite? The people that live in the country? Are you just miffed that you don't get a vote? By that logic, you shouldn't get a vote in London then! It's no surprise that hundreds of thousands of French people who live in London and throughout the UK are able to vote in French elections, but the Nationalists found it impossible to organise for Scots in a similar situation.Fear of failing and lack of belief in the rightness of their cause makes cowards find excuses for inaction and obfuscation. In truth, I'm not miffed. It was a joke post, but soor-faced Nationalists jump on any sliver of levity like all true Calvinists would do. I happen to work in Scotland about 6 months a year, so could make a reasonable claim for inclusion in the voting process when you consider students from throughout the world currently temporarily staying there are considered more Scottish than me. I post jokes, cos I have no fear for the result. You jump on minutiae because you know you're onto a loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) He's done a few. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28334577 A few too many. He wants a wee tight, secret-society type election, so he shouldnae pontificate to those he refuses to invite. He should f**k off back to his own country. At the moment only one side is telling the English what independence is all about and why Scotland want it and that's the lying bastards in BT. It's causing grief and anger in some parts of England as a result who think we all hate England up here. It is only right that in a democracy BOTH sides get to have their say. Salmond is trying to ensure that when Scotland gets independence, he doesn't burn bridges with his neighbours as we'll need to work together afterwards. It is precisely because the English don't have a vote that he MUST go down there and talk to them. What he is doing is responsible. BT should take some lessons. Pontificate? Are you incapable of using reasonable language in any context? Edited July 18, 2014 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 At the moment only one side is telling the English what independence is all about and why Scotland want it and that's the lying bastards in BT. It's causing grief and anger in some parts of England as a result who think we all hate England up here. It is only right that in a democracy BOTH sides get to have their say. Salmond is trying to ensure that when Scotland gets independence, he doesn't burn bridges with his neighbours as we'll need to work together afterwards. It is precisely because the English don't have a vote that he MUST go down there and talk to them. What he is doing is responsible. BT should take some lessons. Pontificate? Are you incapable of using reasonable language in any context? Another humourless Calvinist C.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 It brought a bit of humour to an otherwise dull topic. Plus it does him no justice if you cannot spell his name right. if it is the spelling of Al Megrahi's name you are referring to, I'd just like to point out that the spelling of arabic names in English is always open to interpretation as the languages and alphabets are so hugely different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I'm struggling to see it as anything but. Salmond said today that only a Yes vote would save the Scottish NHS from privatisation but as we all know the NHS in Scotland is currently a devolved matter and if the Scottish Parliament doesn't want to do something with the NHS there is little Westminister can do about it. With no suggestion from the No camp that devolution would be revoked or that the NHS should come under centralised control then we can only assume that what Alex Salmond was really doing was threatening to privatise the Scottish NHS as some sort of punishment to the country for rejecting Independence. The london government has often intervend in holyrood spending plans, threatening to withold segments of the block grant if certain policies were not followed. In actual fact, they have absolute control via the fiscal levrs that are held. Now it might be counter-productive to pull some of those levers, but they stil have them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 The london government has often intervend in holyrood spending plans, threatening to withold segments of the block grant if certain policies were not followed. In actual fact, they have absolute control via the fiscal levrs that are held. Now it might be counter-productive to pull some of those levers, but they stil have them Source please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Source please. http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8428-fury-after-unelected-peers-strip-power-from-scotland You could try this one for starters, there are examples in the health service as well which i will dig out later, as well as this http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8713-mundell-urged-to-back-removal-of-cap-to-allow-extra-bedroom-tax-support Edited July 18, 2014 by beyond our ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 After 261 pages of debate had anybody actually change their mind to how they were going to vote before this thread started ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I have moved rom don't know to a definite yes, but not specifically because of the debate on these pages The debate is wider than BAWA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8428-fury-after-unelected-peers-strip-power-from-scotland You could try this one for starters, there are examples in the health service as well which i will dig out later, as well as this http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8713-mundell-urged-to-back-removal-of-cap-to-allow-extra-bedroom-tax-support Newsnet FFS A credible neutral source please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Banjos Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Haven't posted on this thread before, but wanted to say something about the opinion polling. Bettertogether have been taking a lot of solace from the YouGov polling, which has had the vote at 60:40 in favour of NO pretty much the whole year. Most other pollsters have seen it shifting to YES something like 55:45. Here are the 2011 Scottish parliament election results with with the YouGov pre-election figures in brackets afterwards: Constituency Vote SNP 45.4% (YouGov 41.2%) Lab 31.7% (YouGov 36.3%) Regional Vote SNP 44.0% (YouGov 34.7%) Lab 26.3% (YouGov 34.2%) YouGov underestimated the SNP vote at the last election by 4% and 9%, whilst overestimating the rival Labour vote by 5% and 8%. Who knows what is going on with their methodology for the actual results to be 9% and 17% swings to the SNP compared to their polling. It looks like something similar might happening with the referendum polling though. With so many more YES than NO canvassers plus the saltire waving at the Commonwealth Games, I reckon YES will have enough to win this. Fingers crossed. It's time for change, and the debate surrounding the referendum has been the best thing to happen in Scotland for a long time. Edited July 18, 2014 by Julian Banjos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Haven't posted on this thread before, but wanted to say something about the opinion polling. Bettertogether have been taking a lot of solace from the YouGov polling, which has had the vote at 60:40 in favour of NO pretty much the whole year. Most other pollsters have seen it shifting to YES something like 55:45. Here are the 2011 Scottish parliament election results with with the YouGov pre-election figures in brackets afterwards: Constituency Vote SNP 45.4% (YouGov 41.2%) Lab 31.7% (YouGov 36.3%) Regional Vote SNP 44.0% (YouGov 34.7%) Lab 26.3% (YouGov 34.2%) YouGov underestimated the SNP vote at the last election by 4% and 9%, whilst overestimating the rival Labour vote by 5% and 8%. Who knows what is going on with their methodology for the actual results to be 9% and 17% swings to the SNP compared to their polling. It looks like something similar might happening with the referendum polling though. With so many more YES than NO canvassers plus the saltire waving at the Commonwealth Games, I reckon YES will have enough to win this. Fingers crossed. It's time for change, and the debate surrounding the referendum has been the best thing to happen in Scotland for a long time. I linked to a good blog on here a few weeks ago about the opinion polling data that has been used and their weighting. I can't remember who the blog writer was but he was head of one of the major polling companies and he was criticising the weighting methodology of Panelbase who have been one of the polling companies returning significantly higher Yes poll results than most of the other companies. Panelbase has posted all of their raw data which left it open to analysis and it showed that they put a far greater weighting as a result of the last Scottish Election. If you like they made an assumption that everyone who voted SNP was a keen Nationalist desperate for Independence when in reality many of the votes were cast for the SNP by Labour voters who wanted to deliver a swift kick to their leadership for putting up shite candidates and by Conservative voters voting to stop Labour MSP's from representing them at Holyrood. This poll in September is more clear cut. It's a straight Yes or No choice so theres no tactical voting and no protest vote for the Yes Campaign to count on. I don't think there will be any swing at all come the referendum. I think the Yes vote has been stuck at around 1 in 3 for decades now. Independence has never been high on the wishlist of the majority of Scots. Like Renfrew alludes to - not many people have changed their minds in all these months of campaigning. Certainly not many have gone from Yes to No, or No to Yes. Edited July 18, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Whiffy Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 With so many more YES than NO canvassers plus the saltire waving at the Commonwealth Games, I reckon YES will have enough to win this. Fingers crossed. It's time for change, and the debate surrounding the referendum has been the best thing to happen in Scotland for a long time. I think you maybe right, but I do hope you're wrong. Other than the flag waving, the "voting for change", while keeping fingers crossed that the change is for the good, I don't see much substance to voting yes. I'll be voting no. Some political, some professional, but mostly for personal reasons. The instability over tax and currency has put both my job and my wife's job at risk if a yes vote goes through. My wife's been told that her job will move down south, and with my job at risk we'll likely have to move. Neither of us want to do this. I'm Scottish, I want to live in Scotland. I'm quite happy for that to be as part of the uk too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Newsnet FFS : A credible neutral source please. You'll go a long way to find a truly neutral source of information on governmental matters. However it is the case that westminster can levy a cut in scottish overall funding if they disagree with a policy decision by the SG. The tories issued threats to the SNP when they started the UK gov's austerity programme that failure to proporionately match certain cuts (including health) would be met with a cash equivalent cut in the overall fundng package I'm finding several of the websites unobainable whilst at work, I'll help you out later with this, but in the meantime someone else may trump me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 its the uk that is a member of the eu if Scotland leaves the uk then it also leaves the eu are you telling porkies again or are you just thick as f**k? Your post is inaccurate ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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