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The Referendum Thread


Lanarkshire_Bud

Scottish Independence Referendum  

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In the same way that instead of having 30m or there abouts workers paying income tax and national insurance to pay for state pensions and the NHS the entire cost will fall on just 2m workers, many of whom are working in the public sector

Are you now trying to claim that Scotland's pensions are subsidised?

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No.

Once again all you have shown is your selective use of numbers to make them fit your opinions.

Have the good grace to f**k off and stop responding to me.

You'd like that wouldn't you.

You started this. You claimed that Scotland wasn't fairly represented in the House of Commons. You even chose the measures by which you thought Scotland was under represented. I've shown you quite clearly that on one of those measures you selected, Scotland is clearly OVER represented as on average each Scottish MP represents around 9,000 fewer people than their compatriots around the rest of the UK. I've also ridiculed your second chosen measure by highlighting the absurdity of your suggestion by pointing out that using land mass would simply mean that the sheep on the Pentland hills would be represented by the same number of MP's as those living in Glasgow, Paisley and large chunks of Dunbartonshire, and Lanarkshire.

As I said have the good grace to admit when you've got it wrong and stop making such an arse of yourself. rolleyes.gif

Edited by Stuart Dickson
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The desperate scare tactics of No.

Yes there will be less paying tax, but they won't mention that there will people taking either.

They really do think the whole of Scotland is as thick as them.

Erm no - simply the realities of economics versus the Cult of Salmond and the ridiculous fallacies Natsi's are attempting to put out there.

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Rubbish.

Seriously can you guys not engage your brains before posting the first thing that hits you?

At least demonstrate some evidence of independence thought.

If Alex Salmond is wrong and you don't get Currency Union, Oaksoft, how do you suggest Scotland will be able to set it's own interest rates? The people of Panama are waiting....

Edited by Stuart Dickson
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Are you now trying to claim that Scotland's pensions are subsidised?

Not me Oaksoft - those nice men at the Helmut Schmidt Universitat. They highlight that an Independent Scotland would have to sell government bonds to pay for our pension liabilities. Those bonds will have to be set at a more attractive rate than - for example - the ones issued by the Westminister Government - therefore immediately our national borrowing would be at a higher rate of interest than we currently enjoy.

http://www.scotecon.org/pdf/SES-Indy-ebook.pdf

I urge you to try and have a wee read of the report. Pensions are on page 99 and 100. Over the next few days I'll highlight other area's of concern for the Scottish Electorate and I'll provide shortcuts to the conclusions. I'm soooo helpful..

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I'm just asking. He's the one suggesting there was the prospect of the peasants revolting. IBOS claimed that "hostilities were on the way" if Scotland votes No. I'm kind of hoping this isn't the start of a general trend over the next 30 days where the Natsi's ramp up their campaign to the point of attempting to bully voters with threats of a civil war.

If you read my post correctly it was Boris Johnson who likened the referendum to the peasants revolt.In no way did I suggest there would be any disorder.Are you free on the 21st of September as I require a big bag of wind to blow up my grandsons birthday balloons.The event will be held in the dome(which you hold so close to your heart).We can celebrate Scotland being free and the wee ones birthday at the same time.You will of course receive a bit of cake for your troubles.

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If you read my post correctly it was Boris Johnson who likened the referendum to the peasants revolt.In no way did I suggest there would be any disorder.Are you free on the 21st of September as I require a big bag of wind to blow up my grandsons birthday balloons.The event will be held in the dome(which you hold so close to your heart).We can celebrate Scotland being free and the wee ones birthday at the same time.You will of course receive a bit of cake for your troubles.

Oh dear, I hope your grandson isn't banking on Independence as a birthday present, I hate to see kids crying when they don't get what they want. whistling.gif

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Set up a pension fund IF IT WANTS TO?

Wow. That'll encourage the greybeards to vote for an uncertain future right enough.... ohmy.png

And I have to once again say that I am hugely impressed that Nationalists believe ALL future Scots politicians are gaunie be of an ilk we've never seen before... Spending our money only on the things we each, as individuals, wish to see purchased... And all the nasty stuff ignored.

I love Utopia.... rolleyes.gif

As I note above, I'd also love to see that happen.... Companies like Amazon paying taxes to ANY of the states in which it operates. Other than Luxembourg, Monaco, the Cayman Islands etc.... Or Utopia.... smile.png

so we have a choice, the UK's hell-in-a-handcart, let it run to the edge and desperately haul it back in whilst at the same time siphon what you can from the poor and give it to the rich economic policy of the last 36 years, or Utopia (although I do think that was some of Todd's best work)? Are you sure there is no fair, equitable, prudent and sustainable place in between?

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so we have a choice, the UK's hell-in-a-handcart, let it run to the edge and desperately haul it back in whilst at the same time siphon what you can from the poor and give it to the rich economic policy of the last 36 years, or Utopia (although I do think that was some of Todd's best work)? Are you sure there is no fair, equitable, prudent and sustainable place in between?

Hell in a handcart is the White Paper version of Independence. It's unbelievably unattractive. Full of incredible assumptions - like the Currency Union, Membership of the EU and Membership of NATO while telling them you won't take part in any military action, and telling them to stick Trident up their arse, and it's full of uncosted pledges like increases in pension payments, free nursery care, and the deferring of the increase in pension age to 67 by 8 years. You've drawn your own conclusions of what Independence would be which is nothing like what John Swinney and Alex Salmond have proposed and you've decided that what they've put forward doesn't matter cause somehow or other your version of Independence will come to pass despite you being the only person with this vision.

If you weren't such a member of the Cult of Salmond you'd have woken up to the fact that you're being sold a pup. Independence under the terms the SNP would negotiate for you is worse than what you currently enjoy as part of the UK. Which means you're either too thick to understand it, or your too xenophobic to realise when you've got it good.

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Hell in a handcart is the White Paper version of Independence. It's unbelievably unattractive. Full of incredible assumptions - like the Currency Union, Membership of the EU and Membership of NATO while telling them you won't take part in any military action, and telling them to stick Trident up their arse, and it's full of uncosted pledges like increases in pension payments, free nursery care, and the deferring of the increase in pension age to 67 by 8 years. You've drawn your own conclusions of what Independence would be which is nothing like what John Swinney and Alex Salmond have proposed and you've decided that what they've put forward doesn't matter cause somehow or other your version of Independence will come to pass despite you being the only person with this vision.

If you weren't such a member of the Cult of Salmond you'd have woken up to the fact that you're being sold a pup. Independence under the terms the SNP would negotiate for you is worse than what you currently enjoy as part of the UK. Which means you're either too thick to understand it, or your too xenophobic to realise when you've got it good.

So what your actually saying Stuart that you have read white papers from other political Union parties in the past and all are full of bullshit ? So this makes you think SNP's white paper is no different.Yet

Well we will keep the pound if not the UK's GD will jump up to the point Westminster will be begging is to keep the pound. EC have already said we are already an internal part of the EU and surpass membership to re-join

Don't be scared of Independence embrace it.

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If you read my post correctly it was Boris Johnson who likened the referendum to the peasants revolt.In no way did I suggest there would be any disorder.Are you free on the 21st of September as I require a big bag of wind to blow up my grandsons birthday balloons.The event will be held in the dome(which you hold so close to your heart).We can celebrate Scotland being free and the wee ones birthday at the same time.You will of course receive a bit of cake for your troubles.

Peasants...let them eat cake....I'm liking what you've done here!

Edited by Drew
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I would never have thought so, but then I've never understood the perverted desire for a half-hearted, economically disastrous, semi-separation in the first place.

I think that separation, if not likened to suicidal, is certainly self-harming....

...so I'm sure those reasons are good enough for you to vote : Aye. tongue.png

You obviously have your reasons for wanting to stay in a political union with England but trying to frighten others into to sympathising with you is unproductive.

Perhaps if you read these letter from today's Herald as it might give you pause for thought.

"Raising my eyes for a moment above the constant scaremongering and nit-picking of the campaign, here is my personal vision of the kind of country an independent Scotland could be in 10 or 15 years.

A socially-just country, where there is no longer a widening gap between different levels of society, and where the elderly, the disabled and the disadvantaged are fully provided for by a caring and efficient welfare state, instead of being regarded as a burden by many UK politicians.

A politically mature country, where the various parties and their leaders seek to work together for the common good whenever possible, and where the driving force is no longer the greed and complacency of one side and the envy and resentment of the other.

A prosperous and economically successful country, enjoying all the benefits of our good fortune in having a plethora of natural resources and many already-established industries capable of greater success if given the proper support and economic conditions.

A country which retains all the taxation revenue and economic benefits from its own businesses and economic activities, instead of handing these over to another administration in exchange for a smaller calculated amount being returned.

A country which takes all its own decisions on the economy, finance and taxation, defence and foreign affairs, instead of leaving those to another administration which has little interest in Scotland and in which we have only a small minority voice.

A country no longer providing a base for Trident nuclear submarines and warheads within its own shores, but instead actively supports the campaign for world-wide nuclear disarmament.

A country which has both the right and the confidence to play a full part in international affairs, seeking to maintain peaceful relations with other independent nations while not interfering in their internal affairs and conflicts.

Is all this an impossible dream? On the contrary, I believe it is all attainable, but can be realised only if there is a majority Yes vote in next month's referendum. Have we the confidence and courage to finally take charge of our own destiny? I fervently hope so."

"We are in danger of reducing our nation to the size of a bank note. It seems that the only thing that matters is our currency.

Understanding the complexities of this undoubtedly important subject is something for those advanced and experienced in its study.

Most of us are not in this group. We may be ignorant, but we are not stupid.

After independence we know the way ahead will be full of difficulties, but if we really do have pride in our nationhood and positively want to deal with the challenges and difficulties that lie ahead, then please let us be clear-headed about what has brought us to this significant time in our history and clear about our objectives.

As individuals, many of us will have visited a rich auntie who gave us tea and home baking and treats, and it was lovely, but we were glad to go home to where we really belonged. England is a lovely auntie but let's go home and get on with making it the best it can be."

Not all of us think life after independence will be all milk and honey!

Edited by smcc
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If you read my post correctly it was Boris Johnson who likened the referendum to the peasants revolt.In no way did I suggest there would be any disorder.Are you free on the 21st of September as I require a big bag of wind to blow up my grandsons birthday balloons.The event will be held in the dome(which you hold so close to your heart).We can celebrate Scotland being free and the wee ones birthday at the same time.You will of course receive a bit of cake for your troubles.

You'd better get big f**king cake, if you're going let lard arse loose on it.

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Not me Oaksoft - those nice men at the Helmut Schmidt Universitat. They highlight that an Independent Scotland would have to sell government bonds to pay for our pension liabilities. Those bonds will have to be set at a more attractive rate than - for example - the ones issued by the Westminister Government - therefore immediately our national borrowing would be at a higher rate of interest than we currently enjoy.

http://www.scotecon.org/pdf/SES-Indy-ebook.pdf

I urge you to try and have a wee read of the report. Pensions are on page 99 and 100. Over the next few days I'll highlight other area's of concern for the Scottish Electorate and I'll provide shortcuts to the conclusions. I'm soooo helpful..

This is really very simple.

Are you saying Scotland pensions are currently being subsidised or not?

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