smcc Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Oh FFS - the NHS record is far worse. 5% of hospital deaths are preventable. Each year 850,000 patients in England are harmed or nearly harmed by NHS £213m paid out in compensation by NHS Scotland over negligence claims Hand Hygience Audit on NHS Scotland shows only 68% of staff in hospital wash their hands properly I could go on and on and on with links to NHS Scotland and NHS UK failures and you know it. This demonisation of private health care services is utter nonsense and it smacks of complete desperation by the Yes Campaign, especially when you consider that the SNP's record in Scottish Government has shown that they are no stranger to introducing private contractors into the NHS themselves. No one is suggesting that errors do not occur in the NHS and that it is relatively easy to find accounts of them but, try as I might, I have been totally unable to get figures for the incidence and costs of clinical errors in the private sector. Can you produce these fiures for comparison? Can you produce figures for preventable deaths in the private health care sector? I have been unable to find any; you have to admit that the private health care sector is dealing with a self-selected cadre of relatively healthy people It is worth pointing out that the most recent report of harm in NHS England (there is no such animal as NHS UK) is down to the private firm,Vanguard, which carried out eye surgery on behalf Musgrove Park Hospital in Somerset. The end result is that the affected patients will need further treatment, some including surgery, paid for by the NHS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-28811077 In addition, funding for NHS England may have increased in numerical terms (0.1% in 2014-15) but the following piece shows just exactly what is happening in NHS England. The knock-on conseqence of this is that, as a result of the Barnett formula, NHS Scotland is likely to become increasingly underfunded if Scotland remains in the UK. http://www.nlmanagedservices.co.uk/massive-shortfall-in-funding-for-nhs-england/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 The general secretary of NATO has done an interview with The Times which the bbc are also running with. He states that an independent Scotland would have to apply to join NATO. No shit Sherlock! Not sure there's a story there though... Yup. Scotland applies. Scotland joins. I think it'd be wrong for us to join without applying. That'd be more like annexation :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 No one is suggesting that errors do not occur in the NHS and that it is relatively easy to find accounts of them but, try as I might, I have been totally unable to get figures for the incidence and costs of clinical errors in the private sector. Can you produce these fiures for comparison? Can you produce figures for preventable deaths in the private health care sector? I have been unable to find any; you have to admit that the private health care sector is dealing with a self-selected cadre of relatively healthy people It is worth pointing out that the most recent report of harm in NHS England (there is no such animal as NHS UK) is down to the private firm,Vanguard, which carried out eye surgery on behalf Musgrove Park Hospital in Somerset. The end result is that the affected patients will need further treatment, some including surgery, paid for by the NHS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-28811077 In addition, funding for NHS England may have increased in numerical terms (0.1% in 2014-15) but the following piece shows just exactly what is happening in NHS England. The knock-on conseqence of this is that, as a result of the Barnett formula, NHS Scotland is likely to become increasingly underfunded if Scotland remains in the UK. http://www.nlmanagedservices.co.uk/massive-shortfall-in-funding-for-nhs-england/ Obviously I'm not an expert on this subject but surely the second article is talking about a budget overspend of £2Bn - a debt which would fall to the taxpayer to clear. That would mean an increase in spending by the UK government which in return would boost the amount of money Scotland gets in consequential payments on the Barnett Formula. You've admitted yourself that spending in the NHS in England has increased. NHS Funding is also ring-fenced and protected by the Coalition government from any form of austerity cuts. The idea that Scotland would get less money as a result of a budget overspend by NHS England is just silly, surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Great use of Darth Vader as Alex Salmond there - superb! Watch out for those Sith Lords from getting too much power! Hello Siddelly !! Yeh the wee headbanger guy there is very apt , for you . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Hello Siddelly !! Yeh the wee headbanger guy there is very apt , for you . . I'd rather have one of the headbangers than Herr Salmond's "aliens". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 I'd rather have one of the headbangers than Herr Salmond's "aliens". Oh , siddelly you are a devil. . You are certainly the "alien" on this wee forum , Herr. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 More scaremongering from the nasty Nats about the nhs? http://www.unison-scotland.org.uk/healthcare/index.html Oh, hang on its actually Unison who are saying it. But wait a minute they bankroll Darling's Labour Party.Hmm, how does that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 The media are catching up a little on darling's constant lies http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/2014/aug/19/scottish-independence-referendum-campaign-alastair-darling-accused-of-defending-nhs-cuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Oh , siddelly you are a devil. . You are certainly the "alien" on this wee forum , Herr. . That's the spirit SNLT! Mind the Siddelly Mayo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Another confirmation that the public services England budget is being cut, with a Barnett consequential effect on Scotland. http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/blog/what-budget-means-nhs-bit-less-now-lot-less-later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) The media are catching up a little on darling's constant lies http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/2014/aug/19/scottish-independence-referendum-campaign-alastair-darling-accused-of-defending-nhs-cuts I wonder when the Tories will invite their "Little Darling" onto the cabinet. By Christ these BT types are getting increasingly desperate. Edited August 19, 2014 by FTOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 I wonder when the Tories will invite their "Little Darling" onto the cabinet. By Christ these BT types are getting increasingly desperate. I think he'll be straight into the ermine cloak of the Lords FTOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 I think he'll be straight into the ermine cloak of the Lords FTOF. You could well be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Obviously I'm not an expert on this subject Fcuk me, I nearly choked on my biscuit there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 That's the spirit SNLT! Mind the Siddelly Mayo! You are getting better at that , siddely. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 You are getting better at that , siddely. . What are you on about now SNLT?!! You're as mad as a box of frogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 What are you on about now SNLT?!! You're as mad as a box of frogs! Well you would know all about that , Sidely , wouldn't you. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Well you would know all about that , Sidely , wouldn't you. . No, I wouldn't as I'm not a Grammarian or a Nat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Another confirmation that the public services England budget is being cut, with a Barnett consequential effect on Scotland. http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/blog/what-budget-means-nhs-bit-less-now-lot-less-later That's interesting. The article was published in March 2012 so that should make this really easy then. If what you and Alex Salmond, et al are saying is correct the amount paid per head of population to Scotland through the Barnett Formula should have fallen over the last three years. That should be really easy for you to prove. If it transpires that the Barnett Formula payment has increased then I take it you'll accept that you've swallowed a load of shit from the Natsi propaganda machine and that you'll vote No at the referendum. Deal? Edited August 20, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Planet Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 On the whole I've enjoyed dipping in and out of this thread, though to date I've been happy to sit on the bench. Like most issues I've attempted to keep and open mind, listen to both sides, weigh up the pros and cons. One month out I've reached my decision, though that's not why I'm chipping in, as why anyone would care what I'm going to vote is beyond me. What I do find astonishing though is the quality of the debate that we as the voting public have had / are having to endure. No matter what the issue, be it Currency, EU, NATO, MoD contracts, Employment, NHS, BBC, et cetera, the entire argument appear to end up with a playground exchange of "Aye it will" / "No it willnae". I find that disgraceful, and a national embarrassment. How it is possible to be just 4 weeks short of a vote of this gravity and still have few definitive and undisputed answers on the big ticket items is beyond my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 On the whole I've enjoyed dipping in and out of this thread, though to date I've been happy to sit on the bench. Like most issues I've attempted to keep and open mind, listen to both sides, weigh up the pros and cons. One month out I've reached my decision, though that's not why I'm chipping in, as why anyone would care what I'm going to vote is beyond me. What I do find astonishing though is the quality of the debate that we as the voting public have had / are having to endure. No matter what the issue, be it Currency, EU, NATO, MoD contracts, Employment, NHS, BBC, et cetera, the entire argument appear to end up with a playground exchange of "Aye it will" / "No it willnae". I find that disgraceful, and a national embarrassment. How it is possible to be just 4 weeks short of a vote of this gravity and still have few definitive and undisputed answers on the big ticket items is beyond my understanding. All well and good but what way will you vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 On the whole I've enjoyed dipping in and out of this thread, though to date I've been happy to sit on the bench. Like most issues I've attempted to keep and open mind, listen to both sides, weigh up the pros and cons. One month out I've reached my decision, though that's not why I'm chipping in, as why anyone would care what I'm going to vote is beyond me. What I do find astonishing though is the quality of the debate that we as the voting public have had / are having to endure. No matter what the issue, be it Currency, EU, NATO, MoD contracts, Employment, NHS, BBC, et cetera, the entire argument appear to end up with a playground exchange of "Aye it will" / "No it willnae". I find that disgraceful, and a national embarrassment. How it is possible to be just 4 weeks short of a vote of this gravity and still have few definitive and undisputed answers on the big ticket items is beyond my understanding. I totally agree with you WP. Last night my girlfriend was showing me some of the video clips that have started to appear on her Facebook, reposted from her "friends". One of the ones posted was from what appeared to be a very angry Nationalist who was adamant that because the question is "Do you agree that Scotland should be an Independent country?" we should all just be answering that question and that we don't have the right to ask questions about what currency we will use, or about EU membership or any of the other uncomfortable questions that the Nationalists don't want to answer. I highlighted the problems of the campaigns right from the offset, particularly on this thread. Basically the No Campaign had to sell the status quo as being good enough that we didn't need change. The Yes Campaign would have to make the case that change would be better for us all. Now as I reflect back on the campaigns, I can't see any evidence that has been presented by the Yes Campaign that gives me any confidence whatsoever that change would be better than what we have right now. I'm voting No, obviously. I'd hope other people would ask themselves the same questions before putting their X in the relevant box. Have you had enough information and proof that voting Yes will make a change for the better? If you haven't then all you are doing is taking a big leap of faith, faith that is being led by politicians who make a career out of lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 On the whole I've enjoyed dipping in and out of this thread, though to date I've been happy to sit on the bench. Like most issues I've attempted to keep and open mind, listen to both sides, weigh up the pros and cons. One month out I've reached my decision, though that's not why I'm chipping in, as why anyone would care what I'm going to vote is beyond me. What I do find astonishing though is the quality of the debate that we as the voting public have had / are having to endure. No matter what the issue, be it Currency, EU, NATO, MoD contracts, Employment, NHS, BBC, et cetera, the entire argument appear to end up with a playground exchange of "Aye it will" / "No it willnae". I find that disgraceful, and a national embarrassment. How it is possible to be just 4 weeks short of a vote of this gravity and still have few definitive and undisputed answers on the big ticket items is beyond my understanding. Unfortunately most of what you mention can't be answered as it will be subject to negotiation between the Scottish and Uk gov.NATO is relatively straight forward, scotland will apply to join and will be accepted as we have a strategic geographic position that makes it imperative for NATO to have us in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Planet Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 All well and good but what way will you vote? I will be voting No. On some of the major debating points I favour the Yes camp, on others I favour the No camp, but if there is one thing crystal clear to me it is that Salmond, Sturgeon and co are not fit to 'debate' the country I love in to the unknown. I am now convinced that in the main they are little more than power hungry individuals who, above all else, are hell bent on writing themselves in to the history books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 I will be voting No. On some of the major debating points I favour the Yes camp, on others I favour the No camp, but if there is one thing crystal clear to me it is that Salmond, Sturgeon and co are not fit to 'debate' the country I love in to the unknown. I am now convinced that in the main they are little more than power hungry individuals who, above all else, are hell bent on writing themselves in to the history books. That's a pity.Salmond was interviewed yesterday saying he would gladly sacrifice his political career for an independent Scotland. I don't post this to change your opinion of him or Sturgeon, just for clarity and info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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