The Referendum Thread

[Phil McCracken]

Deary me

its all turned around now

oaksoft and his fellow middle class socialist yes mates attacking and demonising my mother in law because she is disabled and on benefits

how low can these natsis stoop

to give some more background on my mother in law, she is voting no

she has 2 reasons

1. She doesn't think an independent Scotland will be able to afford paying her her current level of benefits. She mite need to downgrade her annual holiday from turkey to salou.

2. As a big user of the nhs with her various health issues, she's worried an independent Scotland wont be able to fund the nhs to its current high standard. She also doesn't like the way Alex salmond is privatising the nhs.

to top it all, despite voting labour all her life, she is considering voting ukip at the next election cos she thinks there r too many immigrants coming here and she is worried it mite reduce her benefits

and to think that she and people like her r a central reason why oaky and wrangler boy r voting yes

that's 'successful in life', adult, middle class natsi socialists for you

Edited September 5, 2014 by Phil McCracken

[Stuart Dickson]

Mibees he wouldn't be used as a bargaining chip if he was only Scottish not British. Similar to the reason John Simpson from Bbc travels the worlds war zones on an Irish passport?

Rubbish

[Ayrshire Saints]

Deary me

its all turned around now

oaksoft and his fellow middle class socialist yes mates attacking and demonising my mother in law because she is disabled and on benefits

how low can these natsis stoop

to give some more background on my mother in law, she is voting no

she has 2 reasons

1. She doesn't think an independent Scotland will be able to afford paying her her current level of benefits. She mite need to downgrade her annual holiday from turkey to salou.

2. As a big user of the nhs with her various health issues, she's worried an independent Scotland wont be able to fund the nhs to its current high standard. She also doesn't like the way Alex salmond is privatising the nhs.

to top it all, despite voting labour all her life, she is considering voting ukip at the next election cos she thinks there r too many immigrants coming here and she is worried it mite reduce her benefits

and to think that she and people like her r a central reason why oaky and wrangler boy r voting yes

that's 'successful in life', adult, middle class natsi socialists for you

Im now convinced you are making this " in law" up. You have basically created a stereotypical persona to suit your argument. Keep digging.

[BoWSaint]

That's Andrew telt!

[Phil McCracken]

Im now convinced you are making this " in law" up. You have basically created a stereotypical persona to suit your argument. Keep digging.

let me assure you that every single thing i have posted here is 100% true

not a single thing is exaggerated

i should also add that she had also taken my son with her on her last 3 trips to turkey and she has paid for it all... Out of her benefits

your response is both saddening and typical on 2 counts:

1. You r demonising disabled benefit claimants as 'stereotypical' and

2. When confronted with the truth of real life 'poverty' in the uk you dismiss it as lies

what more can you expect from middle class socialists!

the fact is that you r voting yes because you want 'social justice' for people like my ukip voting mother in law

meanwhile she is laughing all the way to turkey and i was laughing all the way to euro Disney with your hard earned tax

[BoWSaint]

let me assure you that every single thing i have posted here is 100% true

not a single thing is exaggerated

i should also add that she had also taken my son with her on her last 3 trips to turkey and she has paid for it all... Out of her benefits

your response is both saddening and typical on 2 counts:

1. You r demonising disabled benefit claimants as 'stereotypical' and

2. When confronted with the truth of real life 'poverty' in the uk you dismiss it as lies

what more can you expect from middle class socialists!

the fact is that you r voting yes because you want 'social justice' for people like my ukip voting mother in law

meanwhile she is laughing all the way to turkey and i was laughing all the way to euro Disney with your hard earned tax

:

Is 500 quid a week below the poverty line?

Do you think she gets too much in benefits or a fair amount?

[BoWSaint]

The people voting yes do seem to be having more fun with the referendum.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153195842144896

[saintnextlifetime]

That's Andrew telt!

I'm a wee bit concerned that I pay Andrew's wages. Well , not for much longer. .

[RickMcD]

I can easily believe what Phil McCracken says about people on benefits going on more than one foreign holiday a year. My daughter works for one of the big tour operators and has been based for a few years now in a branch in one of the slightly dodgy areas of Belfast. All the staff have regular customers that they get to know over a period of time and a lot of these people go on two or more foreign holidays a year and a lot of them are quiet open about being on benefits. My daughter deals with one family that she calls her big gypsy family (Off the record).They're not literally gypsies but not a kick in the ass off it. Last year one of them was celebrating a silver wedding and I think it was seventeen of them went to the West Indies. The total cost was around £35K and they wanted to pay in cash! I kid you not. Some devious alternative was manufactured and off they jolly well went. My daughter attends conferences and such like and they often compare notes. It's endemic in the UK, not at all restricted to Northern Ireland. I'm a governor in a school here and we have a problem with kids being taken out of school to go on holiday during term. We can huff and puff about it but there's not really much can be done if the parents dig in their heels. As often as not their children are on free school meals, quite often from a one parent family (officially) and they rely heavily on benefits. The education authorities everywhere run across this. A lot of these people are included in those in poverty that the Yes people keep going on about. Poverty is damnable and it's a disgrace that anyone in the UK should suffer from poverty but anyone who believes that 29% of the UK population lives in poverty needs a reality check. But if it suits a pro tem argument they trot it out.

Another thing is, if anyone thinks the black economy isn't alive and well, and in fact is blossoming, has their head stuck firmly up their arse. I have a friend i got to know through the school. She has real health problems and hasn't worked for years but she did a great job getting her kids through school. Hubby buggered off years ago. She works a couple of nights a week in a Chinese takeaway and gets about £30-£40 a week in her hand, no questions asked. With that she has her fortnight in Spain every year. I don't resent that one bit and would never think of shopping her.

Those who think everyone on benefits is really struggling badly and like to make political capital of it need to open their eyes and have a look at the real world that the rest of us live in.

[saintnextlifetime]

I can easily believe what Phil McCracken says about people on benefits going on more than one foreign holiday a year. My daughter works for one of the big tour operators and has been based for a few years now in a branch in one of the slightly dodgy areas of Belfast. All the staff have regular customers that they get to know over a period of time and a lot of these people go on two or more foreign holidays a year and a lot of them are quiet open about being on benefits. My daughter deals with one family that she calls her big gypsy family (Off the record).They're not literally gypsies but not a kick in the ass off it. Last year one of them was celebrating a silver wedding and I think it was seventeen of them went to the West Indies. The total cost was around £35K and they wanted to pay in cash! I kid you not. Some devious alternative was manufactured and off they jolly well went. My daughter attends conferences and such like and they often compare notes. It's endemic in the UK, not at all restricted to Northern Ireland. I'm a governor in a school here and we have a problem with kids being taken out of school to go on holiday during term. We can huff and puff about it but there's not really much can be done if the parents dig in their heels. As often as not their children are on free school meals, quite often from a one parent family (officially) and they rely heavily on benefits. The education authorities everywhere run across this. A lot of these people are included in those in poverty that the Yes people keep going on about. Poverty is damnable and it's a disgrace that anyone in the UK should suffer from poverty but anyone who believes that 29% of the UK population lives in poverty needs a reality check. But if it suits a pro tem argument they trot it out.

Another thing is, if anyone thinks the black economy isn't alive and well, and in fact is blossoming, has their head stuck firmly up their arse. I have a friend i got to know through the school. She has real health problems and hasn't worked for years but she did a great job getting her kids through school. Hubby buggered off years ago. She works a couple of nights a week in a Chinese takeaway and gets about £30-£40 a week in her hand, no questions asked. With that she has her fortnight in Spain every year. I don't resent that one bit and would never think of shopping her.

Those who think everyone on benefits is really struggling badly and like to make political capital of it need to open their eyes and have a look at the real world that the rest of us live in.

The trouble with a benefits system is that there will always be people , like those that feature in your story , whom "manage" very well on it by working the system . We have all heard the stories about those families with the mobility car that "couldn't afford to take a job" . However , there are many more deserving cases that genuinely struggle to make ends meet on benefits and are given a bad name by those that are "working the system". .

[bluto]

However , there are many more deserving cases that genuinely struggle to make ends meet on benefits and are given a bad name by those that are "working the system". .

Aye.

Those working the system like the Monarchy that a Yes vote will maintain!

Just to get back on topic, you understand...

[saintnextlifetime]

The monarchy is something to be dealt with after the referendum - whether it's a Yes or a No. Biggest scroungers out there.

Of course it is . .

Personally , I don't have a problem with the monarchy as it stands , in preference to having say , President Cameron . I have come to terms with the fact that from a Scottish perspective the current monarchy are usurpers . They probably attract quite a lot of tourists to London which helps to finance them on a day to day basis. .

Obviously , right now in Scotland they still have a huge support from certain flag waving types but I would agree that the future of the monarchy in Scotland would/should be put to a referendum post independence . I'd be happy to accept the democratic decision of such a referendum , which to be fair , would be a referendum you would be very unlikely to see in the rUK in our lifetime as it would mean altering the constitution of said rUK. .

Possibly the most successful country , over in the Continent , retains a royal family. .

[bluto]

They probably attract quite a lot of tourists to London which helps to finance them on a day to day basis.

Nah... They don't attract ANY tourists at all.

The buildings used by them get some interest, the panoply of soldiers, guards and castles are all attractions, but tourists NEVER expect to see Royals.

More tourists go to France than the UK. So Royals can't be that great an attraction... There the tourists visit Royal Palaces etc., just as they do here.

However, the French did the right job, regarding Royals, long ago.

And, please, please.... NO to another bloody referendum - especially on that subject.

[RickMcD]

Of course it is . .

Personally , I don't have a problem with the monarchy as it stands , in preference to having say , President Cameron . I have come to terms with the fact that from a Scottish perspective the current monarchy are usurpers . They probably attract quite a lot of tourists to London which helps to finance them on a day to day basis. .

Obviously , right now in Scotland they still have a huge support from certain flag waving types but I would agree that the future of the monarchy in Scotland would/should be put to a referendum post independence . I'd be happy to accept the democratic decision of such a referendum , which to be fair , would be a referendum you would be very unlikely to see in the rUK in our lifetime as it would mean altering the constitution of said rUK. .

Possibly the most successful country , over in the Continent , retains a royal family. .

Nice to see such an open unbiased comment about the monarchy. I'm a bit ambivalent. I've always felt that the actual monarch still to a minor degree can act as a buffer between the people and the government. I accept not over big major issues. The hangers on can disappear as far as I'm concerned but one reason for keeping a living, breathing monarchy is that it is a nice little earner. The civil list is around £20M. plus a few million more from time to time. The queen and Charlie boy do pay at least that and more in taxes between them now. If you look though at the income generated by the royal family through tourism largely, but a few other industries too, the opponents of royalty have estimated it grudgingly at £20- £25 Billion. Pro-royalty reckon definitely in excess of £40Billion per annum. I don't profess to know the truth. All that income wouldn't disappear of course if the royal family disappeared but over a period it would decline. An ex-royal palace doesn't bring in the same crowds as one that still has royals living in it. About twenty years ago I was in London on a wet miserable Sunday morning in March. It would have froze your balls off. The lady wife wanted to see Buck House so we wandered round. The streets weren't bunged but there were easily a couple of hundred folk there taking photographs all round. There were Americans, Japanese, Chinese and Europeans of every description there. It is a big, big pull. What are the crowds like on a good day in summer?

There are hangers on and free-loaders but show me another 'industry' that can generate at the bottom end estimate £20 Billion PA for an investment of about £30m. Biggest spongers ? Maybe a few of them.

[saintnextlifetime]

However, the French did the right job, regarding Royals, long ago.

I'm sure you will recall , who came in to replace the power vacuum left , when Les Francaise "did the right job". .

He was responsible for a few other deaths and at one point had French farm boys cutting off their right trigger fingers to avoid conscription to his army. .

• 371,000 killed in action^[1]
• 800,000 killed by disease, primarily in the disastrous invasion of Russia^[2]
• 600,000 civilians^[2]
• 65,000 French allies (mainly Poles fighting for independence lost in 1795)^[2]
• 1,800,000 French and allies (mostly Germans and Poles) dead in action, disease and missing^[1]
• 1,700,000 Frenchmen from "pre-1792 borders"

[Ayrshire Saints]

let me assure you that every single thing i have posted here is 100% true

not a single thing is exaggerated

i should also add that she had also taken my son with her on her last 3 trips to turkey and she has paid for it all... Out of her benefits

your response is both saddening and typical on 2 counts:

1. You r demonising disabled benefit claimants as 'stereotypical' and

2. When confronted with the truth of real life 'poverty' in the uk you dismiss it as lies

what more can you expect from middle class socialists!

the fact is that you r voting yes because you want 'social justice' for people like my ukip voting mother in law

meanwhile she is laughing all the way to turkey and i was laughing all the way to euro Disney with your hard earned tax

:

LOLOLOL if that's poverty and demonisation then I'm chucking the rat race for a life on Benefits today. This has gone too far now Phil / Stu (you have got to be one in the same) c'mon come clean before you dig a bigger hole for yourself. At least you are starting to lighten up a bit with this line - it is vaguely amusing. You have clearly based this characer on the Channel 4 "benefits street" / bbc "the scheme" genre but why not both those shows gained critical acclaim.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I see my post regarding john Simpson was described as rubbish.

It's not rubbish. He has an Irish passport that he uses when he's travelling to places where his Uk passport would be problematic.

Kinda the opposite of how things used to be back in the good old days...

[Ayrshire Saints]

The trouble with a benefits system is that there will always be people , like those that feature in your story , whom "manage" very well on it by working the system . We have all heard the stories about those families with the mobility car that "couldn't afford to take a job" . However , there are many more deserving cases that genuinely struggle to make ends meet on benefits and are given a bad name by those that are "working the system". .

But PhilStu isn't boasting for a minute that his "mother-in-law" is playing the system / on the fiddle is he ???

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Benefit fraud is about 1% of its budget and 100% of the distraction.

[saintnextlifetime]

Nice to see such an open unbiased comment about the monarchy. I'm a bit ambivalent. I've always felt that the actual monarch still to a minor degree can act as a buffer between the people and the government. I accept not over big major issues. The hangers on can disappear as far as I'm concerned but one reason for keeping a living, breathing monarchy is that it is a nice little earner. The civil list is around £20M. plus a few million more from time to time. The queen and Charlie boy do pay at least that and more in taxes between them now. If you look though at the income generated by the royal family through tourism largely, but a few other industries too, the opponents of royalty have estimated it grudgingly at £20- £25 Billion. Pro-royalty reckon definitely in excess of £40Billion per annum. I don't profess to know the truth. All that income wouldn't disappear of course if the royal family disappeared but over a period it would decline. An ex-royal palace doesn't bring in the same crowds as one that still has royals living in it. About twenty years ago I was in London on a wet miserable Sunday morning in March. It would have froze your balls off. The lady wife wanted to see Buck House so we wandered round. The streets weren't bunged but there were easily a couple of hundred folk there taking photographs all round. There were Americans, Japanese, Chinese and Europeans of every description there. It is a big, big pull. What are the crowds like on a good day in summer?

There are hangers on and free-loaders but show me another 'industry' that can generate at the bottom end estimate £20 Billion PA for an investment of about £30m. Biggest spongers ? Maybe a few of them.

Though I don't always like to admit it , a constitutional monarchy does seem to be a successful form of government even in todays modern world. Whilst I don't whole heartedly agree with having them I accept that it seems to be a necessary "evil" . There is some sort of buffer principle that you mention and to be fair , they still remain popular by and large in the Uk. Therefore , it would need to be a democratic vote to change their status , whether that be in the rUk or in Scotland alone , which would be the more likely case.

Two major European countries that got rid of their monarchy in modern times descended into anarchy , civil war and eventually got dictators far worse than the monarchy they hoped to rid themselves of. .

[Phil McCracken]

But PhilStu isn't boasting for a minute that his "mother-in-law" is playing the system / on the fiddle is he ???

who is stu? R u referring to Dickson?

and, no, my mother in law isn't fiddling any systems

everything she gets she is entitled to

[Phil McCracken]

LOLOLOL if that's poverty and demonisation then I'm chucking the rat race for a life on Benefits today. This has gone too far now Phil / Stu (you have got to be one in the same) c'mon come clean before you dig a bigger hole for yourself. At least you are starting to lighten up a bit with this line - it is vaguely amusing. You have clearly based this characer on the Channel 4 "benefits street" / bbc "the scheme" genre but why not both those shows gained critical acclaim.

the only person digging a hole is you!

ive never watched benefits street so have no idea of the characters.

id be interested to know why you would want to be on benefits based on my what i have disclosed about my mother in law?

i have revealed nothing about her lifestyle other than the fact that she can afford an annual holiday to turkey (with another uk based holiday coming up), needs to go on a drastic diet as opposed to needing a food bank and consumes a disproportionately large amount of nhs resources

she doesn't exactly have a lavish lifestyle

however, she has been able to obtain enough benefits for 40 years which has allowed her to avoid work and lead a decent lifestyle

that's the sort of person you are fighting for social justice for...

you get up and go to work in order that she has a 365 day a year holiday

Edited September 5, 2014 by Phil McCracken

[RickMcD]

Benefit fraud is about 1% of its budget and 100% of the distraction.

They only catch 1% which makes it appear bearable. How many don't they catch? How long is a piece of string? Those on benefits appear to be entitled to their whack and rightly so but how many don't disclose the live-in partner, the job in a market twice a week or the twenty grand aunty left them that's still in an off-shore bank account? I'm not suggesting it's anything like a majority but it is significant.

[Ayrshire Saints]

the only person digging a hole is you!

ive never watched benefits street so have no idea of the characters.

id be interested to know why you would want to be on benefits based on my what i have disclosed about my mother in law?

i have revealed nothing about her lifestyle other than the fact that she can afford an annual holiday to turkey (with another uk based holiday coming up), needs to go on a drastic diet as opposed to needing a food bank and consumes a disproportionately large amount of nhs resources

she doesn't exactly have a lavish lifestyle

however, she has been able to obtain enough benefits for 40 years which has allowed her to avoid work and lead a decent lifestyle

that's the sort of person you are fighting for social justice for...

you get up and go to work in order that she has a 365 day a year holiday

:

You are thoroughly confusing me here - on minute you appear to be approving of her lifestyle now you appear to have u-turned and are condemming it (like we had been until we sussed you were making it up) which is it ???

[Phil McCracken]

You are thoroughly confusing me here - on minute you appear to be approving of her lifestyle now you appear to have u-turned and are condemming it (like we had been until we sussed you were making it up) which is it ???

I've done neither. I have not revealed my thoughts on the matter at all.

All I've done is laugh at the middle class socialists fighting for her social justice.

Sussed I was making it up?

Yet again you highlight your lack of knowledge about the issues you are voting for...

Every single thing I have posted here about my mother in law is totally 100% true. You just want to bury your head in the sand because knowing that its true blows apart all your poltical beliefs!