salmonbuddie Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I can think of two forum users who are well ahead of Salmond for that title......or possibly just the one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 What SD failed to tell us the percentage of Scottish votes polled by the Conservatives. 1979 34.4% 1983 28.4% 1987 24.0% 1997 17.5% 2001 15.6% 2005 15.8% 2010 16.7% This confirms the sudden drop in Conservative votes in Scotland during Thatchers incumbency, although I am not sure what relevance this has to September's vote. He does not seem to realise that, although the SNP is the prime mover in the quest for independence, this is not a party political election but a referendum and that Scots of all political allegiances are backing the Yes campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) What SD failed to tell us the percentage of Scottish votes polled by the Conservatives. 1979 34.4% 1983 28.4% 1987 24.0% 1997 17.5% 2001 15.6% 2005 15.8% 2010 16.7% This confirms the sudden drop in Conservative votes in Scotland during Thatchers incumbency, although I am not sure what relevance this has to September's vote. He does not seem to realise that, although the SNP is the prime mover in the quest for independence, this is not a party political election but a referendum and that Scots of all political allegiances are backing the Yes campaign. And the fall in the Conservative support correlates with the rise in SNP support whilst Labours Scottish vote remains completely untouched. Effectively the SNP are a tactical vote for those who don't want Labour governments. Anyway that's not the point being made. Alex Salmond claimed the Thatcher government was one that no Scots wanted. However I've proved that more Scots wanted a Thatcher government than have EVER wanted an SNP one. That's fact! Your post is just another failed attempt at spin. And Alex Salmond is a dirty big fat liar! Edited May 16, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 17.3% of the population - LMFAO It's factual. In 2011 the Scottish population was 5,222,100. The SNP polled 902,915 votes. That is 17.3% of the population. Hardly a mandate for Independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Saint Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 It's factual. In 2011 the Scottish population was 5,222,100. The SNP polled 902,915 votes. That is 17.3% of the population. Hardly a mandate for Independence. this is the best fact yet. One question though - does the population figure of 5.2m that you quoted include those under the age of let just say for arguments sake 18? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) this is the best fact yet. One question though - does the population figure of 5.2m that you quoted include those under the age of let just say for arguments sake 18? I think I've been very clear in my posts that I'm referring to the total population. However if you want to exclude under 18s from the figure it still only comes out as 21.9% of Scots voting for the SNP. Still nowhere near a mandate, still fewer Scots than voted for Margaret Thatcher, and still proof beyond all question that if Alex Salmond thinks that we had a Thatcher government none of us wanted - then the same is true of his government in Hollyrood. Even if we compare the last general election results with Mrs T's least popular spell in government the outcome is obvious Thatcher in 1987 - 713,081 Salmond in 2010 - 491,386 What about at their most popular including the SNP Scottish Election Result? Still bad news for Salmond I'm afraid. In 1979 Thatcher had 916,115 Scottish Votes In 2011 the SNP only polled 902,915 votes. Margaret Thatcher, for all the rhetoric, was always more popular in Scotland than the SNP, and more popular than Alex Salmond. Edited May 16, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I think I've been very clear in my posts that I'm referring to the total population. However if you want to exclude under 18s from the figure it still only comes out as 21.9% of Scots voting for the SNP. Still nowhere near a mandate, still fewer Scots than voted for Margaret Thatcher, and still proof beyond all question that if Alex Salmond thinks that we had a Thatcher government none of us wanted - then the same is true of his government in Hollyrood. Even if we compare the last general election results with Mrs T's least popular spell in government the outcome is obvious Thatcher in 1987 - 713,081 Salmond in 2010 - 491,386 What about at their most popular including the SNP Scottish Election Result? Still bad news for Salmond I'm afraid. In 1979 Thatcher had 916,115 Scottish Votes In 2011 the SNP only polled 902,915 votes. Margaret Thatcher, for all the rhetoric, was always more popular in Scotland than the SNP, and more popular than Alex Salmond. The only thing which is relevant is the percentage of those who bothered to vote. Non-voters are irrelevant. How do those figures stack up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoWSaint Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 What's it got to do with the SNP? I have never voted for SNP but I would vote for YES for independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I see Cameron has be,en telling lies yet again. Telling people that the Bank of England supports Gideon's scaremongering stories that we will not be allowed to use the pound. This is despite, at least two speeches made by the governor of the bank of England stating the opposite. Just how desperate are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Saint Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I think I've been very clear in my posts that I'm referring to the total population. However if you want to exclude under 18s from the figure it still only comes out as 21.9% of Scots voting for the SNP. Still nowhere near a mandate, still fewer Scots than voted for Margaret Thatcher, and still proof beyond all question that if Alex Salmond thinks that we had a Thatcher government none of us wanted - then the same is true of his government in Hollyrood. Even if we compare the last general election results with Mrs T's least popular spell in government the outcome is obvious Thatcher in 1987 - 713,081 Salmond in 2010 - 491,386 What about at their most popular including the SNP Scottish Election Result? Still bad news for Salmond I'm afraid. In 1979 Thatcher had 916,115 Scottish Votes In 2011 the SNP only polled 902,915 votes. Margaret Thatcher, for all the rhetoric, was always more popular in Scotland than the SNP, and more popular than Alex Salmond. i think you've made it very clear in your posts that you just make up numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I see Cameron has be,en telling lies yet again. Telling people that the Bank of England supports Gideon's scaremongering stories that we will not be allowed to use the pound. This is despite, at least two speeches made by the governor of the bank of England stating the opposite. Just how desperate are they? Oh, oh. I'd love to see those speeches. My memory of them was that Mark Carney took a non commital line but with warnings that if there was to be a Currency Union it would take both sides to make large concessions to the other. However if you've got proof that the Bank of England no longer supports George Osbourne and that Scotland will be able to use the pound I'd love to see it. I'm sure every newspaper editor in the country would also be interested in that explosive speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 The only thing which is relevant is the percentage of those who bothered to vote. Non-voters are irrelevant. How do those figures stack up? No they don't Oaksoft. In 1979 the electorate was not forced to vote either. Scots either voted or didn't vote by their own free will. However despite that at no point has the SNP or Alex Salmond managed to get more votes than the supposed most despised woman in Scottish history. This is the woman who headed up the government that Alex Salmond claimed Scots didn't want. It's damming Oaksoft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Can't disagree with this, he's right. However, the fact remains that Wee Eck was correct in what he said, the people of Scotland, post WWII anyway, have never voted fir a Conservative government. He's spinning so hard now that he's at around 1,500 feet and becoming a hazard to air traffic. Impressive for a fat plumber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 It's factual. In 2011 the Scottish population was 5,222,100. The SNP polled 902,915 votes. That is 17.3% of the population. Hardly a mandate for Independence. this is the best fact yet. One question though - does the population figure of 5.2m that you quoted include those under the age of let just say for arguments sake 18? Yet in the 2010 General Election the Conservatives polled 16.7% of those who voted (and, presumably, a much smaller proportion of the total population of Scotland. I think that 17.3% of the total population is more than 16.7% of those who voted; or am I wrong? Smacks a bit of clutching at straws. It is not really elevant to the referendum how many Scots voted for Thatcher or any subsequent Conservative leaders. This is not an election, Stuart. It is a referendum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Can't disagree with this, he's right. However, the fact remains that Wee Eck was correct in what he said, the people of Scotland, post WWII anyway, have never voted fir a Conservative government. He's spinning so hard now that he's at around 1,500 feet and becoming a hazard to air traffic. Impressive for a fat plumber. In 1959 more Scots voted for Conservative than they did Labour. 1,260,287 to 1,245,255. Labour took 7 extra seats but only because of the way the constituencies are divided. In 1955 the Conservatives returned more Scottish MP's than any other party 36 to Labours 34. They also polled better - 1,273,942 to 1,188,058. In 1951 the Conservatives returned the same number of Scottish MP's as the Labour Party - 35 v 35. However more Scots voted for the Conservatives 1,349,298 v 1,330,244. And in every single General Election since the war the SNP have never managed to to get more than 630,000 votes. Now you aren't spinning - you are just out and out lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Fair enough, I'll rephrase. ".....post 1960......" See, admitting you're wrong isn't hard, is it? Now, did the majority of people in Scotland vote Conservative , yes or no? That was too easy.... Edited May 17, 2014 by salmonbuddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Interesting piece by a No supporter: http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/hugo-rifkind/9206231/scotlands-fate-is-more-important-than-david-camerons/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Fair enough, I'll rephrase. ".....post 1960......" See, admitting you're wrong isn't hard, is it? Now, did the majority of people in Scotland vote Conservative , yes or no? That was too easy.... I've never claimed they did. All I've done is state the fact that more Scots voted for Margaret Thatcher than have ever voted for the SNP. I've got nothing to admit I'm wrong to. It was Alex Salmond that made the ludicrous statement when he can only wish he was as popular with Scots as Margaret Thatcher was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) What ludicrous statement? Your "favourite line in the whole article" is what's under discussion. "Nobody will believe Tory promises of more powers for Scotland, because the last time that happened, the only thing Scotland got was Thatcherism and18 years of Tory governments we didn't vote for." Reading that back, StuD, you're right, it is ludicrous. 18 years is wrong, 1979 was 35 years ago and all we've had since then has been different shades of Tory. Edited May 17, 2014 by salmonbuddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) What ludicrous statement? Your "favourite line in the whole article" is what's under discussion. "Nobody will believe Tory promises of more powers for Scotland, because the last time that happened, the only thing Scotland got was Thatcherism and18 years of Tory governments we didn't vote for." Reading that back, StuD, you're right, it is ludicrous. 18 years is wrong, 1979 was 35 years ago and all we've had since then has been different shades of Tory. None more so than in Scotland though Salmonbuddie. You Natsi's love to claim that the Tories look after their rich friends. Well the SNP record is one of rewarding the rich at the expense of those who need it most. Since the SNP came to power we have seen the following. Free parking for surgeons and nurses at NHS Hospitals - at the expense of patient care. Free prescriptions for those who weren't poor enough to qualify for free prescriptions in the first place at the expense of patient care £33.7m per annum paid to electricity companies to TURN OFF WIND TURBINES at the cost of every energy bill payer in the country Free University Education - teaching tomorrow's politicians, lawyers and bankers at the expense of dinner ladies, bin men and shop workers. Selling Princes Mall - premium real estate in Edinburgh - for 40p to Sir David Murray Ensuring wealthy Scottish landowners will make £1Bn over 8 years for land rental to house expensive, inefficient wind farms at the cost of energy users Offered Amazon a cut price tax avoidance deal to set up an HQ in Scotland. And I could go on and on and on. Edited May 17, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Oh ffs, i know you're trolling but how many times...... We're voting for Scotland, not the SNP - nice & simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Deja-vu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Yep Edited May 17, 2014 by salmonbuddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Deja-vu. Thatcher was right though wasn't she. Scotland voted No and then landed up with a Scottish Parliament and Hollyrood anyway. Devolution didn't die unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Oh ffs, i know you're trolling but how many times...... We're voting for Scotland, not the SNP - nice & simple. What? You mean in the same way we aren't voting for David Cameron or the Conservatives? I wonder what you're next two posts were about then I could go back over the many, many, many reasons why Scots shouldn't vote Yes in September if you like. We can revisit the currency issue and the fact that Scotland won't be able to use Sterling. We could revisit the uncertainty over Scotlands continued EU Membership. We could talk again about just how unlikely it is that NATO will give Scotland full membership when the Scottish Government is telling them to stick Trident up their arse and kicking them out of the key strategic defence post at Faslane. We could go back over the fact that the Scottish Government is running up a £12Bn per year deficit due to it's over reliance on a North Sea Oil price that has never been maintained at any point in history. We could go back over the clear costing issues over things like how an Independent Scotland could fund the NHS, Welfare, the setting up of all the various civil servant offices that every government needs from scratch, and providing free University places to the English, Irish and Welsh students who will take advantage of EU rules, whilst also meeting it's pledge to provide free pre school places for every child aged 3 and over. We could do all of that again if you want but since you failed to make any case for a Yes vote back then I doubt that you'd be that keen to go back the way there either. Lets face it only a few days ago we had one pro nationalist on here saying we should forget about Alex Salmonds cowardice in Kosovo and his sucking up to Vladamir Putin cause that was all "three weeks ago" and it was time to move on. I'm quite happy to move on to show that Alex Salmond and the Scottish NATIONALIST Party has never been as popular as Margaret Thatcher in Scotland. If you want to try and take us in another new direction I'll happily meet you head on..... Edited May 17, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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