Stuart Dickson Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 More details emerge of Scotland's future if we stay "better together" http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mp-priti-patel-sparks-1471711 Hmm, I thought this wasn't to be about individuals or party politics - or is that only when Alex Neill is announcing cuts to the NHS hand hygiene budget while giving NHS Managers a 4% pay rise, or when Alex Salmond is begging David Cameron to get his pals to stop "bullying" him? Or when Nicola Sturgeon is being ripped several new ones by Andrew Neil because her work of fiction is unravelling faster than a toilet roll tied to the Andrex puppy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 He certainly has kept the ship steady. White rich men across our nation are rejoicing about this. Not sure about everyone else though. Talking about making the rich richer..... http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/the-snp-is-showing-us-that-independence-is-not-needed.22328319 Giving a 4% wage rise to those public servants earning £170,000 per annum. Free prescriptions for the rich. Free University Courses for tomorrow's politicians, lawyers, bankers and GP's all at the expense of your average call centre worker, or your local bin man. Got to love those Natsi's - haven't you Oaksoft..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 It's quite incredible the criticism Osborne is taking from newspapers across pretty much the entire world for his pathetic, childish and ludicrous position on a currency union. Can every country be wrong about this? The wheels are starting to fall off the BT campaign as I thought it might. lol, f**king hell Goebbels..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Bundy Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 lol, f**king hell Goebbels..... Jist like Sir Jack ? answer my questions, You Dick ? You are into the Eton Boy's, Not the rug munching Lady's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Jist like Sir Jack ? answer my questions, You Dick ? You are into the Eton Boy's, Not the rug munching Lady's ? Who is Sir Jack? No I'm not Dick - I'm Stuart. I'm not sure what you are getting at with the last question but if you are asking me if I'm a lesbian I'd have to say that I lack some of the equipment for such a role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Bundy Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Who is Sir Jack? No I'm not Dick - I'm Stuart. I'm not sure what you are getting at with the last question but if you are asking me if I'm a lesbian I'd have to say that I lack some of the equipment for such a role. Harvey - You Fanny ? ( Biggest Tory donor ) Call your self a Conservatory - You are indeed a " Dick " You certainly No f**k all about the Tory party and Ruth Davidson ? Nothing worse than necrophilla running through your political ideology, And your interweb shite !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Bundy Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I'm always willing to oblige....if I can understand the question. Cameron is OK - I'd have preferred him to have been a much tougher Prime Minister but he's led us through the dark days of being skint thanks to the last Labour government and he's kept the ship steady. Davidson - she's in the Scottish Parliament so she's not going to be much use. She, and her predecessor, do have the fortunate character trait of being knowledgeable, personable and articulate. Certainly more so than any other party leader at Hollyrood. Milliband is a fanny. No principles, no scruples, completely untrustworthy, and un-intellectual to boot however he is still better than the nonentity that is Angus Robertson and the contemptuous Natsi that is Alex Salmond. Lamont - better than Ian Grey. Can hold her own in Parliament even if it is in a style closer to yours.... Who the f**k is Alexander and Rennie? Oh help me Boab, You just have not got a clue large arse ! I will refer The right, Honourable Knobend, To the post I made a few moments ago ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26245684 Apparently as a nation we've now been allowed to raise money via our own loans. Not cheap loans though. UK Treasury analysts say "bonds issued by the Scottish government would likely translate into a cost of borrowing significantly above that enjoyed by the UK government." So in effect the historic news is that Osborne has allowed Scotland to have a high interest credit card but is denying us access to the cheap loans the UK enjoys. You have to wonder whether by calling this a "historic day for Scotland" he's simply trying to wind us up or whether he genuinely thinks we are stupid up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26245684 Apparently as a nation we've now been allowed to raise money via our own loans. Not cheap loans though. UK Treasury analysts say "bonds issued by the Scottish government would likely translate into a cost of borrowing significantly above that enjoyed by the UK government." So in effect the historic news is that Osborne has allowed Scotland to have a high interest credit card but is denying us access to the cheap loans the UK enjoys. You have to wonder whether by calling this a "historic day for Scotland" he's simply trying to wind us up or whether he genuinely thinks we are stupid up here. Osborne has probably been reading your posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Hmm, I thought this wasn't to be about individuals or party politics - or is that only when Alex Neill is announcing cuts to the NHS hand hygiene budget while giving NHS Managers a 4% pay rise, or when Alex Salmond is begging David Cameron to get his pals to stop "bullying" him? Or when Nicola Sturgeon is being ripped several new ones by Andrew Neil because her work of fiction is unravelling faster than a toilet roll tied to the Andrex puppy? It's not about individuals daftyIt's about what the Westminster parties have planned for Scotland's future if we vote No. Edited February 19, 2014 by TPAFKATS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26245684 Apparently as a nation we've now been allowed to raise money via our own loans. Not cheap loans though. UK Treasury analysts say "bonds issued by the Scottish government would likely translate into a cost of borrowing significantly above that enjoyed by the UK government." So in effect the historic news is that Osborne has allowed Scotland to have a high interest credit card but is denying us access to the cheap loans the UK enjoys. You have to wonder whether by calling this a "historic day for Scotland" he's simply trying to wind us up or whether he genuinely thinks we are stupid up here. . One way or another, pretty much the entire history of mankind has been that of a struggle for power. Whether military conquest to secure resources, religious crusades to impose ideology or the fight for individual human rights, people across the globe have constantly striven for power over themselves and each other, and do to this day. Scots seem to be the only exception. Today’s papers carry a couple of main independence-related stories. One is the strange news that Holyrood is to be given the power to issue bonds in its own name for the purposes of borrowing – something we expect the average reader such as ourselves will regard in much the same quizzical but essentially uninterested manner as a dog looking at a copy of James Joyce’s Ulysses. (Or, indeed, us looking at a copy of James Joyce’s Ulysses.) It’s a curious development, given that it won’t grant the Scottish Government any additional borrowing powers over and above those that were coming through the Scotland Act anyway, but will merely enable it to borrow, should it wish to, the same total amount of money at a higher interest rate. Why it would wish to do such an apparently stupid thing as pay more interest on its loans than it needed to is currently unclear to us. The best the Scotsman can offer by way of explanation is this: “The move would add to the growing accountability in the way the Scottish Government manages its finances, by making it answerable to private investors through the markets.” Well, whoop-de-doo and haud us back. More accountability! Yay! The other big (and related) story is the papers catching up on yesterday morning’s release by ScotCen of some more data from its Scottish Social Attitudes Survey, concerning the electorate’s view on the unkillable mythical beast that is “devo max”. As usual, the data shows a rough three-way split between independence (31%), “devo max” (defined as independence minus defence and foreign affairs, scoring 32%) and the status quo (25%). The media coverage focuses on the first two figures, deciding as it habitually does that a 1% advantage over independence somehow makes “devo max” the Scottish public’s clear constitutional preference. But it was the last figure that made us stop and think. Because it means that fully a quarter of Scots don’t want their own Parliament to have any more power at all. And not just that – another 8% want all the current powers of Holyrood handed back to Westminster, making a total of one-third of Scots who want no new powers, or fewer powers than now. And we’re not sure we know who those people are. The reflexive answer, of course, is “Tories”. But there just aren’t enough Tories to make that stick. The Conservative vote in the 2010 Westminster election was less than 17% in Scotland – almost exactly half our 33% figure of “the same or fewer powers” Scots – and in the 2011 Holyrood election they got just 13%. That, of course, suggests that half of the people in Scotland who don’t want any more powers vote for Labour, the Lib Dems or the SNP – parties who all at least claim to be fervently committed to delivering more powers to Edinburgh. (Or they don’t vote at all, which makes it slightly odd that they’re prepared to spend their time being regularly surveyed about politics.) We have no conclusion to draw from this information, because we’re completely baffled by it. Do fully a third of Scots think it would be dangerous to control any more of their own affairs than they do now? Are we really unique on the face of the Earth as a nation that has collectively given up on the instinctive human quest for power, because we believe others can run our country better than we can? (On current polls, we’re certainly on course to be the first recognised nation in the history of the world to democratically vote against its own independence.) Are there any SNP voters reading this who are opposed to ANY more power coming to Scotland? Any Lib Dems who want to see Holyrood abolished? (We know Labour has some.) If so, drop us a line. We’d really like to hear from you. We want to understand. Edited February 19, 2014 by thepaisleypanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 We may well be the first recognised nation to democratically vote against gaining its own independence, but that needs to be put in context. We are hardly an India looking to break colonial shackles, or Baltic states and the break-up of the Soviet Union, or any number of African nations who had been governed by the British, French, Dutch, Portuguese.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I feel as though Westminster treats us like a province... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 http://t.co/KEuSRe1jI5 I've seen a bigger turnout at a kids saturday morning football match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) http://t.co/KEuSRe1jI5 I've seen a bigger turnout at a kids saturday morning football match I'm still waiting on my phone call from people from England, Wales and NI telling me how wanted us Scots are. My toes haven't uncurled yet from hearing Cameron's speech. My personal Tory favourite from today's papers - "Cutting benefits give people hope". You wonder what kind of sick bastard could come up with that line. Edited February 19, 2014 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I'm still waiting on my phone call from people from England, Wales and NI telling me how wanted us Scots are. It could be you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Bundy Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I'm still waiting on my phone call from people from England, Wales and NI telling me how wanted us Scots are. My toes haven't uncurled yet from hearing Cameron's speech. My personal Tory favourite from today's papers - "Cutting benefits give people hope". You wonder what kind of sick bastard could come up with that line. Fcuk sake, Rick & Bluto got you on Ignore To ? Who do you know in Wales - Taffy, By any chance ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 It's not about individuals dafty It's about what the Westminster parties have planned for Scotland's future if we vote No. Hmm, yet you won't deal with the policies raised. Strange that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 This will bring depth to the debate on this thread. 76 reasons why the English are sorry... http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/19/scottish-independence-76-things-apologise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 . One way or another, pretty much the entire history of mankind has been that of a struggle for power. Whether military conquest to secure resources, religious crusades to impose ideology or the fight for individual human rights, people across the globe have constantly striven for power over themselves and each other, and do to this day. Scots seem to be the only exception. Today’s papers carry a couple of main independence-related stories. One is the strange news that Holyrood is to be given the power to issue bonds in its own name for the purposes of borrowing – something we expect the average reader such as ourselves will regard in much the same quizzical but essentially uninterested manner as a dog looking at a copy of James Joyce’s Ulysses. (Or, indeed, us looking at a copy of James Joyce’s Ulysses.) It’s a curious development, given that it won’t grant the Scottish Government any additional borrowing powers over and above those that were coming through the Scotland Act anyway, but will merely enable it to borrow, should it wish to, the same total amount of money at a higher interest rate. Why it would wish to do such an apparently stupid thing as pay more interest on its loans than it needed to is currently unclear to us. The best the Scotsman can offer by way of explanation is this: “The move would add to the growing accountability in the way the Scottish Government manages its finances, by making it answerable to private investors through the markets.” Well, whoop-de-doo and haud us back. More accountability! Yay! The other big (and related) story is the papers catching up on yesterday morning’s release by ScotCen of some more data from its Scottish Social Attitudes Survey, concerning the electorate’s view on the unkillable mythical beast that is “devo max”. As usual, the data shows a rough three-way split between independence (31%), “devo max” (defined as independence minus defence and foreign affairs, scoring 32%) and the status quo (25%). The media coverage focuses on the first two figures, deciding as it habitually does that a 1% advantage over independence somehow makes “devo max” the Scottish public’s clear constitutional preference. But it was the last figure that made us stop and think. Because it means that fully a quarter of Scots don’t want their own Parliament to have any more power at all. And not just that – another 8% want all the current powers of Holyrood handed back to Westminster, making a total of one-third of Scots who want no new powers, or fewer powers than now. And we’re not sure we know who those people are. The reflexive answer, of course, is “Tories”. But there just aren’t enough Tories to make that stick. The Conservative vote in the 2010 Westminster election was less than 17% in Scotland – almost exactly half our 33% figure of “the same or fewer powers” Scots – and in the 2011 Holyrood election they got just 13%. That, of course, suggests that half of the people in Scotland who don’t want any more powers vote for Labour, the Lib Dems or the SNP – parties who all at least claim to be fervently committed to delivering more powers to Edinburgh. (Or they don’t vote at all, which makes it slightly odd that they’re prepared to spend their time being regularly surveyed about politics.) We have no conclusion to draw from this information, because we’re completely baffled by it. Do fully a third of Scots think it would be dangerous to control any more of their own affairs than they do now? Are we really unique on the face of the Earth as a nation that has collectively given up on the instinctive human quest for power, because we believe others can run our country better than we can? (On current polls, we’re certainly on course to be the first recognised nation in the history of the world to democratically vote against its own independence.) Are there any SNP voters reading this who are opposed to ANY more power coming to Scotland? Any Lib Dems who want to see Holyrood abolished? (We know Labour has some.) If so, drop us a line. We’d really like to hear from you. We want to understand. Do you not think that Alex Salmond comes across like a petulant child over this government bonds thing? Three years ago Salmond went to London to demand the right to borrow, Ticketus style, against future revenues paid from the Barnett Formula. Borrowing against future revenue to create jobs in construction risky strategy but the Chinese government was following that path, and had been since 2008 and three years ago Salmond wanted to follow that path. At the time the Westminster Government told Salmond that the money wasn't available at that time but that they would look at ways to make it happen. Now they've announced, three years later, a plan to allow the Scottish Government to sell government bonds on the international market that can be repaid through raised taxes and Salmond's thrown a tantrum saying that it's three years too late. It probably is too because now we can all see how the Chinese plan worked out. There growth was maintained at 10% for each of the five years, but government debt levels are eye watering, there's a huge amount of corruption where the winners have been politicians at every level, and the massive spending on infrastructure has meant that the rich in China are buying up all the new property as empty investments whilst your ordinary Chinese worker is finding their living conditions are actually getting worse. Indeed Robert Peston has been speculating that China will now be the epicentre of the next global banking collapse. As for Salmonds comparisons to Switzerland and Denmark who the f**k is he trying to kid. Take Switzerland for example - in the firing line at the EU because they've put curbs on immigration. How does that sit with Independent Scotlands over reliance on immigrants to ensure Scotland's pensions remain viable. Switzerland retain it's own currency and their population voted in a referendum to reject membership of the EU. Denmark too is Euro Sceptic. It opted out of the Euro choosing to retain it's own currency and they recently re-introduced border controls to protect it's borders from the influx of illegal goods coming from the EU - something which has annoyed the European Parliament. You Natsi's are just silly beyond contempt for buying into Salmonds propaganda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 This will bring depth to the debate on this thread. 76 reasons why the English are sorry... http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/19/scottish-independence-76-things-apologise Oohh, not doing themselves any favours in Paisley. Imagine apologising for making Greenock an unwitting target for a nuclear attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Bundy Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Do you not think that Alex Salmond comes across like a petulant child over this government bonds thing? Three years ago Salmond went to London to demand the right to borrow, Ticketus style, against future revenues paid from the Barnett Formula. Borrowing against future revenue to create jobs in construction risky strategy but the Chinese government was following that path, and had been since 2008 and three years ago Salmond wanted to follow that path. At the time the Westminster Government told Salmond that the money wasn't available at that time but that they would look at ways to make it happen. Now they've announced, three years later, a plan to allow the Scottish Government to sell government bonds on the international market that can be repaid through raised taxes and Salmond's thrown a tantrum saying that it's three years too late. It probably is too because now we can all see how the Chinese plan worked out. There growth was maintained at 10% for each of the five years, but government debt levels are eye watering, there's a huge amount of corruption where the winners have been politicians at every level, and the massive spending on infrastructure has meant that the rich in China are buying up all the new property as empty investments whilst your ordinary Chinese worker is finding their living conditions are actually getting worse. Indeed Robert Peston has been speculating that China will now be the epicentre of the next global banking collapse. As for Salmonds comparisons to Switzerland and Denmark who the f**k is he trying to kid. Take Switzerland for example - in the firing line at the EU because they've put curbs on immigration. How does that sit with Independent Scotlands over reliance on immigrants to ensure Scotland's pensions remain viable. Switzerland retain it's own currency and their population voted in a referendum to reject membership of the EU. Denmark too is Euro Sceptic. It opted out of the Euro choosing to retain it's own currency and they recently re-introduced border controls to protect it's borders from the influx of illegal goods coming from the EU - something which has annoyed the European Parliament. You Natsi's are just silly beyond contempt for buying into Salmonds propaganda Stuart, Gie it ah bye, Your f**king aboot with my 19/19 Vision ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Debate over, David Bowie says "Scotland, stay with us"........................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Great thread ! Presently, have the Uk , Scottish Governments or even the local Councils given us smooth roads yet ? Naw ! F*CKEM ! Too much talking shite and nae action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Debate over, David Bowie says "Scotland, stay with us"........................................ :thumbs2 Aye, and this from the man who famously said the following: "I'm always amazed that people take what I say seriously. I don't even take what I am seriously" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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