Drew Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Hmmmmm 50 / 50 today..............down an increment at the moment, took a wee bit of a huff over the latest Governemntal interfering nonsense. Didn't like the Nanny statism latest about all kids having a nominated person involved in their well being............ffs. I thought rather old school admittedly, that this was the parents job. Who's going to administer this , who's going to apply the protocols and check the procedural correctness, how much will this scheme cost ?? In future does anyone that has children just give them up to the overlordship of a superior all seeing grown up that can look after the child's interest better than the parents. Is this the same sort of decent relaible pseudo professional above reproach type who can also approve your passport renewal application Cannae see this one flying at all, bit stupid imo, but irritatingly its the kind of intrusive bollox that is often associated with the SNP....another kind of policy load that smacks of lets all help the tail wag the dog. Jist sayin like..................... Again, the schoolboy error here is allowing the Independence debate to be confused with SNP policies. People need to make more effort to disentangle the two. There are people of many political hues who support the principle of independence. Edited February 21, 2014 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Again, the schoolboy error here is allowing the Independence debate to be confused with SNP policies. People need to make more effort to disentangle the two. There are people of many political hues who support the principle of independence. It's not confused with the Independance debate, it is imacting on opinion because of it. Either way , it shapes , influences and can sway perception................ If you are asking all potential voters to discern and split the nuances on every policy soundbite, then there will be a run on mogadon.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 It's dead easy, who other than the people of Scotland would be better placed to look after the people of Scotland's affairs. The thing that makes me laugh is the policy of the Tory's to promise have a referendum to leave Europe if they win the next election. WTF happened to their better together policy, it only seems to apply to us. The English are wanting independence from Europe but we need to be ruled from Westminster, you couldnae make it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 The Yes campaign advocate EU membership as a natural progression from achieving independence, then presumably they accept full responsibility for integration into all the EU principles, laws and terms and conditions that go with it. Personally I would rather take non-membership than full integration, as per Norway and Iceland, but that isn't the route the SNP are advocating. So do I have to assume they accept the full responsibilities that come with full membership of the EU and accept they wouldn't be able to negotiate away several layers of EU rules that seem to really aggravate many, many people that currently are subject to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Hmmm, what might help. Thinks........... Maybe we should pose the question , what do we want to be , rather than what we have been in the past and stop looking back but instead speculate forward. Presently , dunno what's winning .................. Maybe need to draw up a plus and minus spreadsheet. Then again should I be looking at this measure from a personal parochial view or should I look at it as to what is better for everyone. Hmmmm............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 It's dead easy, who other than the people of Scotland would be better placed to look after the people of Scotland's affairs. The thing that makes me laugh is the policy of the Tory's to promise have a referendum to leave Europe if they win the next election. WTF happened to their better together policy, it only seems to apply to us. The English are wanting independence from Europe but we need to be ruled from Westminster, you couldnae make it up. If you want to go down that route you need to look at the poll that was commissioned by the Mail which shows that a majority of those who would vote Yes to Independence also want an in/out referendum on Europe. Perhaps it's safe to assume that the reason for this is because they have realised the independence on offer isn't independent at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 If you want to go down that route you need to look at the poll that was commissioned by the Mail which shows that a majority of those who would vote Yes to Independence also want an in/out referendum on Europe. Perhaps it's safe to assume that the reason for this is because they have realised the independence on offer isn't independent at all Seriously Stuart, we really don't need to look at anything associated in any way, shape, or form with the Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Seriously Stuart, we really don't need to look at anything associated in any way, shape, or form with the Mail. Lol I know - especially after watching the racist attack on that busker on The Street. I do think the poll was relevant and significant though. Scots want their say on EU Membership too and it appears the only vote in the independence referendum that would deliver that is a No vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I see the uncertainty over Scotland's future has started to damage our economy with the TSB relocating their Head Office to England for tax purposes. I can hardly blame them when all the rhetoric about a Yes vote seems to be that by paying MORE tax we'll all be richer. You'd have thought someone in the SNP ranks might have understood that if you have tax varying powers the best thing to increase the total tax take is to decrease the tax rate to a point that is cheaper than your nearest neighbours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Careful mate, you are dangerously close to having a Frank Underwood moment.... "For those of us climbing to the top of the food chain, there can be no mercy. There is but one rule: Hunt or be hunted." Nit-picking doesn't help at all. If Oaksoft had not omitted the comma following "privileges" then "is" is correct. If you are going to be a pedant, get it right. However, as oaksoft did omit the comma, I was right. If your auntie was a man she'd be your uncle, but that is also not the case. What is your point, caller? I do hate being a pedant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 You'd have thought someone in the SNP ranks might have understood that if you have tax varying powers the best thing to increase the total tax take is to decrease the tax rate to a point that is cheaper than your nearest neighbours You'd have thought that anyone with a brain would realise that reducing your tax to less than your neighbours would provoke a similar response and an endless race to the bottom which would result in no tax at all which would benefit absolutely nobody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I do hate being a pedant. No you don't. You absolutely have to be a pedant because other than meaningless pedantry, you've had nothing of value to offer on this or any other thread. It gives you the feeling of having some influence when in actual fact the substance of the debate just whizzes past you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 You'd have thought that anyone with a brain would realise that reducing your tax to less than your neighbours would provoke a similar response and an endless race to the bottom which would result in no tax at all which would benefit absolutely nobody. Except of course everyone who pays tax. f**king hell. If Scotland is reliant on scientists like you we really are f**ked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Lloyd insist that TSB will remain Scottish because that is where they are licensed - quote from Daily Record. Mibees they are just hedging their bets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Lloyd insist that TSB will remain Scottish because that is where they are licensed - quote from Daily Record. Mibees they are just hedging their bets? The statement from Lloyds said that they would be registering the TSB in England rather than Scotland before selling the bank later this year. You might be right Tony they may well be hedging their bets as a consequence of the referendum, but why would they do that if they didn't fear the consequences of Independence? I think anyone could understand their position. It's not necessarily the case that Lloyds have no confidence in an Independent Scotland, but they must realise that the uncertainty could put off potential buyers therefore affecting the selling price. Ultimately those kind of business decisions could well be harming the Scottish economy right now and if the uncertainty continues past September - if Scotland votes Yes and two years of negotiations start - it really could harm Scotland quite badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Except of course everyone who pays tax. f**king hell. If Scotland is reliant on scientists like you we really are f**ked You reckon it would be better if nobody paid any tax at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 TSB planning on registering their head office in England , that and all the main oil companies doing the same shows how confident they would be in an independent Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 You reckon it would be better if nobody paid any tax at all? Oh absolutely. I thought I'd made that clear in the past. I'm sure most people would have got the message that I think that all of us get really poor value for money on services offered by governments and we could all make private arrangements that would be much more cost effective and much more efficient. What is strange though is that the Yes campaign has made several contradictions when it talks about the economy. Contradictions that seem to be blindly re-quoted by their unthinking supporters. For example reference is continually made to how in an independent Scotland ALL SCOTS would be £x better off yet at the same time they talk of a "fairer society" where wealth will be re-distributed more equally. How do you redistribute wealth whilst making all Scot's better off? Surely the rich would have to become worse off, wouldn't they? Yet in all their years in power the SNP's flagship policies have had the reverse effect. Expanding benefits that those on Welfare already got - like Free Prescriptions - to the rich or providing doctors, lawyers, investment bankers and politicians with a "free" education which is paid for from the taxes of those who were, have been or will be denied those opportunities. Then you've got the pledges of free nursery care for all, higher rates of pensions, and the scrapping of unpopular revenue raising policies like the Bedroom Tax. All those policies take funding and that would suggest higher taxes, but the SNP like to compare post independence Scotland's economy with low tax societies like Switzerland where you pay zero tax on savings and investments, or like Ireland where since joining the Euro they have maintained far lower Corporation Tax levies than is available in the rest of Europe. Salmond even reached an agreement with Amazon - if you believe the whistle blowing TV coverage one of the worst employers in the UK for zero hour contracts and working their staff like dogs - so that they get huge tax breaks in Scotland. There's little wonder that many in Scotland believe that the Yes Campaign has little credibility when it comes to the economy - and that's before you take into account the fact that the Yes Campaign doesn't appear to have a plan B for the currency it plans to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/john-robertson/bbc-bias-and-scots-referendum-new-report Good to see BBC Scotland and STV are unbiased concerning the independence debate....................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/john-robertson/bbc-bias-and-scots-referendum-new-report Good to see BBC Scotland and STV are unbiased concerning the independence debate....................... You don't expect a 50:50 view and a 50:50 debate on this subject do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 You don't expect a 50:50 view and a 50:50 debate on this subject do you? No. However you might expect our national TV stations to be a bit more balanced in relation to their reporting of the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Chief executive of the European Policy Centre Dr Fabian Zuleeg told MSPs he thought it was "very difficult" to see member states vetoing an application for an independent Scotland to join the EU, on 20 February 2014. Dr Zuleeg told the European and External Relations Committee that countries with internal separatist issues, like Spain, would be "uneasy" but would have no grounds to veto Scotland's application. He said: "It is very difficult to see how Scotland would not be a member, eventually, if it so desires to be." The crucial political question would be how far Scotland wanted to retain "UK exceptionalism" on opt outs like the Schengen and the budget debate and how far it would accept EU obligations, Dr Zuleeg added. This week has seen heated exchanges on the possibility of an independent Scotland joining the EU with European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso saying it would be "extremely difficult, if not impossible" for an independent Scotland to join the European Union. Dr Zuleeg said Mr Barros's comparison of Scotland and Kosovo "didn't help the debate" and aspects of his comments were "a little bit unhelpful". As well as leading the European Policy Centre, Dr Zuleeg is chief economist and his areas of expertise include European political economy, EU budget, European labour markets and the sustainability of Europe's economic and social model. Dr Zuleeg has spoken on the issue of Scottish independence previously stating his opinion that Scotland could gain EU membership, would not have to commit to adopting the Euro, could continue to use pound sterling but conceded such issues are political questions and would require negotiation with other states. Now, before anyone with an agenda tries to second guess my emotions, I'm neither happy nor unhappy about this article. I'm merely pointing out that Mr.Barroso's views on the EU are not actually what will definitely happen and that alternative views from other individuals in similar positions of authority, who don't have a sizeable part of their country wanting to secede from their governance, do exist. So while it appears that an entry to the EU could be difficult and involve negotiations, it is certainly not "impossible". Edited February 21, 2014 by FTOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Now, before anyone with an agenda tries to second guess my emotions, I'm neither happy nor unhappy about this article. I'm merely pointing out that Mr.Barroso's views on the EU are not actually what will definitely happen and that alternative views from other individuals in similar positions of authority, who don't have a sizeable part of their country wanting to secede from their governance, do exist. So while it appears that an entry to the EU could be difficult and involve negotiations, it is certainly not "impossible". The thing about it is that it's NOT news. It's not that long since Eck suggested Scotland would seamlessly join the EU in a problem free manner. And anyone on here trying to suggest it might be a wee bit more complicated than that was pilloried. It's not news, as I say, but it is fair comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) No you don't. You absolutely have to be a pedant because other than meaningless pedantry, you've had nothing of value to offer on this or any other thread. It gives you the feeling of having some influence when in actual fact the substance of the debate just whizzes past you. Wow. That's a zinger that has really burst my bubble I think I'll go over to the Wid Ye? thread and suggest that it should furthermore have no more images posted on it! Better still, delete every picture posted in every post throughout the 2-300 pages, there. Those suggestions may be of great value and win me back some of the friends and influence that I am obviously missing. Thank you, O wise one. Edited February 21, 2014 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Wow. That's a zinger that has really burst my bubble I think I'll go over to the Wid Ye? thread and suggest that it should furthermore have no more images posted on it! Better still, delete every picture posted in every post throughout the 2-300 pages, there. Those suggestions may be of great value and win me back some of the friends and influence that I am obviously missing. Thank you, O wise one. You could delete every photo in the 'Wid Ye' thread, but with Dickson and Oaksoft posting in here, there would still be a pair of tits on display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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