Jump to content

The Referendum Thread


Lanarkshire_Bud

Scottish Independence Referendum  

286 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

Danny Alexander, chief secretary to the treasury said today;

"whatever the Scottish government says now, the government of an independent Scotland would be forced to raise taxes and cut public services. We are better off together."

Alistair Darling, chairman of Better Together said today;

"If Scotland was independent today we would have no option but to cut spending on services like schools and hospitals or put up taxes – or probably both. Today as part of the UK we don't have to do that."

Quoted in the media including all the major newspapers and both STV and BBC. Not only is there a level of irony that our resident Billy Liar character (yes its you thicko dicko) would be proud of but also none of these journalists or editors seems fit to mention the "austerity" cuts to public services that the uk has been undertaking for the last few years?????????

You couldn't make this shit up!

Maybe you missed it but the Coalition Government has actually INCREASED spending on the NHS and on education whilst CUTTING taxes. The respective budget s show that spending has continued to increase year on year and we know that tax thresholds have been raised and the top rate of tax lowered by 5%.

I wish you'd stop lying Tony. It doesn't do you any credit

Edited to add the links to the proof that the government has increased spending on healthcare and education.

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_2002_2016UKb_13c1li111mcn_10t_Education

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_2002_2016UKb_13c1li111mcn_10t_Healthcare

And tax rates

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm#2b

Everyone's personal allowance - the amount you are allowed to earn tax free before you have to pay tax - has increased from £7,475 in 201112, to £10,000 in 2014-15. And the top rate of tax - for those earning £150,000 per annum or more has decreased from 50% to 45%.

Undeniable proof that under the coalition government in Westminster, despite all the talk of austerity, the UK has seen increased spending on Healthcare and Education whilst the government continues to cut taxes.

Oh and the bigger picture - in 2010 UK total UK government spending was at £672.3Bn. In 2014 the coalition government has budgeted for a spend of £718.8Bn.

I guess it looks like Tony did just make his shit up.....rolleyes.gif

Edited by Stuart Dickson
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Don't be silly, or rather don't be sillier than normal.

You obviously know all these "plenty" who have this one reason?

People don't vote tory because of their policies and principles ( as much as they have principles). The Eton Toffs part is a by product.

BTW, Eton Toffs are neither a nation or a race which makes your xenophobic comment just another attempt at mudslinging.

Nonsense. Next you'll be telling us that the majority of Scots want to pay more tax, they want more politicians, larger government, and that they want more abuses of the welfare state. And then while you are at it you'll tells us that we don't want opportunity to improve ourselves, to own our own houses and to have the opportunity to invest in the stock exchange.

The only reason Scots don't vote Conservative is because they don't read the policies they stand on. And they don't read the policies because they have a range of hatred that starts at "Thatcher" and ends with "Rich or Eton Toffs." It's a prejudice that sees them arguing that we should have fewer well educated people running the country, something we see well when we look at the cluster f**k Scots voted in to Hollyrood

Edited by Stuart Dickson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Latest Independence Poll shows the Yes campaign hit their best score this year - 38%. With 49% saying they will vote no. This means that the Yes campaign will need to convince every single one of the 13% who claim to be undecided to vote Yes. They better hope Alex Salmond has something spectacular up his sleeve cause the campaign looks like a dead duck to me now. I personally expect the vote when it happens to revert back to the undeniable historical truth that only 1 in 3 Scots really wants Independence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Latest Independence Poll shows the Yes campaign hit their best score this year - 38%. With 49% saying they will vote no. This means that the Yes campaign will need to convince every single one of the 13% who claim to be undecided to vote Yes. They better hope Alex Salmond has something spectacular up his sleeve cause the campaign looks like a dead duck to me now. I personally expect the vote when it happens to revert back to the undeniable historical truth that only 1 in 3 Scots really wants Independence.

You might recall that in early 2011, a few months before the Scottish Government election, Scottish Labour had a significant lead in the polls over the SNP, and we all know what happened there....

Granted, this is an entirely different scenario, but it serves as a note of caution for those relying heavily upon opinion polls to support their position that the YES campaign are on a hiding to nothing.

Edit: to reflect 2011 situation a little more accurately having reviewed this further.

Edited by Drew
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest TPAFKATS

Nonsense. Next you'll be telling us that the majority of Scots want to pay more tax, they want more politicians, larger government, and that they want more abuses of the welfare state. And then while you are at it you'll tells us that we don't want opportunity to improve ourselves, to own our own houses and to have the opportunity to invest in the stock exchange.

The only reason Scots don't vote Conservative is because they don't read the policies they stand on. And they don't read the policies because they have a range of hatred that starts at "Thatcher" and ends with "Rich or Eton Toffs." It's a prejudice that sees them arguing that we should have fewer well educated people running the country, something we see well when we look at the cluster f**k Scots voted in to Hollyrood

LOL, you do realise that you are claiming to know why over 80% of those who voted didn't vote tory. Maybe you also read minds?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest TPAFKATS

Maybe you missed it but the Coalition Government has actually INCREASED spending on the NHS and on education whilst CUTTING taxes. The respective budget s show that spending has continued to increase year on year and we know that tax thresholds have been raised and the top rate of tax lowered by 5%.

I wish you'd stop lying Tony. It doesn't do you any credit

Edited to add the links to the proof that the government has increased spending on healthcare and education.

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_2002_2016UKb_13c1li111mcn_10t_Education

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_2002_2016UKb_13c1li111mcn_10t_Healthcare

And tax rates

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm#2b

Everyone's personal allowance - the amount you are allowed to earn tax free before you have to pay tax - has increased from £7,475 in 201112, to £10,000 in 2014-15. And the top rate of tax - for those earning £150,000 per annum or more has decreased from 50% to 45%.

Undeniable proof that under the coalition government in Westminster, despite all the talk of austerity, the UK has seen increased spending on Healthcare and Education whilst the government continues to cut taxes.

Oh and the bigger picture - in 2010 UK total UK government spending was at £672.3Bn. In 2014 the coalition government has budgeted for a spend of £718.8Bn.

I guess it looks like Tony did just make his shit up.....rolleyes.gif

I'm not making up anything. We are living through cuts in public spending that are unprecedented in modern UK and there's much more to come whether red or blue tories ate in power in London. Trying to kid on that they aren't happening, but would with independence is lying.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL, you do realise that you are claiming to know why over 80% of those who voted didn't vote tory. Maybe you also read minds?

You started it by claiming that Scots didn't agree with Tory policies or principles. Maybe I should have asked you to point out which ones Scots disagreed with.

If you look at the 2010 manifesto the Conservatives stood on a platform of.

Reducing Welfare Dependency.

A 5% pay reduction for government ministers plus a pay freeze for five years.

Capping the biggest Public Sector Pensions above £50,000

Cutting spending on Child Trust Funds for all but the poorest third of families and families with disabled children.

Stopping tax credits to families earning over £50,000 per annum

And a one year public sector pay freeze in 2011 excluding the one million poorest paid workers.

Tell me which of these policies do Scots disagree with? Perhaps you could do it whilst showing what SNP policies Scots disagreed with so strongly the SNP managed only to get 80,000 more votes than the Conservatives in the same election.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not making up anything. We are living through cuts in public spending that are unprecedented in modern UK and there's much more to come whether red or blue tories ate in power in London. Trying to kid on that they aren't happening, but would with independence is lying.

It isn't happening Tony. The UK Public Spending figures prove that beyond all doubt. Check out the links I gave you. All are official websites and none of the information is opinion based. Spending has continued to increase despite all the rhetoric - something that also happened during the Thatcher era when she was supposed to have imposed massive cuts everywhere too.

Personally it's where I see the Coalition government failing. There should have been large scale cuts but that hasn't happened at all - perhaps down to the Liberal Democrats influence on the government.

Have you got any proof of these massive cuts to trump the official figures? Have you got information that the SNP hasn't delivered to anyone yet that shows beyond all doubt that an independent Scotland can definitely meet Alex Salmonds pledges?

Edited by Stuart Dickson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest TPAFKATS

You started it by claiming that Scots didn't agree with Tory policies or principles. Maybe I should have asked you to point out which ones Scots disagreed with.

If you look at the 2010 manifesto the Conservatives stood on a platform of.

Reducing Welfare Dependency.

A 5% pay reduction for government ministers plus a pay freeze for five years.

Capping the biggest Public Sector Pensions above £50,000

Cutting spending on Child Trust Funds for all but the poorest third of families and families with disabled children.

Stopping tax credits to families earning over £50,000 per annum

And a one year public sector pay freeze in 2011 excluding the one million poorest paid workers.

Tell me which of these policies do Scots disagree with? Perhaps you could do it whilst showing what SNP policies Scots disagreed with so strongly the SNP managed only to get 80,000 more votes than the Conservatives in the same election.

Would it be too simple to say that if more Scots agreed with the policies of the Tories they would get more votes?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would it be too simple to say that if more Scots agreed with the policies of the Tories they would get more votes?

You could say the same thing about the SNP. You'd think that with all Thatcher gets accused of having done to Scotland and the apparent unpopularity of the party that the SNP would have done better than to beat them by just 80,000 votes in a country of 6m

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Suppose with it being a political thread with different opinions arguments will break out. It's the scare mongering that gets me by so called Scottish companies. You don't get Tesco or the Asada's of this world saying they will move out of Scotland. I'm seriously thinking of closing down our accounts with the Royal bank and switching to bank of Scotland.Salmond Is an extremely clever man many don't give him credit just I hate him. Yet he broke the labour strong hold in Scotland which deserves credit alone just for that as Labour are not the party it used to be. I just hope Salmond has an ace card up his sleeve and is keeping it for the right moment.

er, but Tesco & Asda don't have head offices in Scotland!

How can they close down a head office in Scotland which doesn't exist? :1eye

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest TPAFKATS

You could say the same thing about the SNP. You'd think that with all Thatcher gets accused of having done to Scotland and the apparent unpopularity of the party that the SNP would have done better than to beat them by just 80,000 votes in a country of 6m

You could if we were discussing them, however you started discussing the Tories and how in your opinion the scots were xenophobic by not voting for their leaders. No one mentioned SNP, do keep up and stop your SNP obsession.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest TPAFKATS

It isn't happening Tony. The UK Public Spending figures prove that beyond all doubt. Check out the links I gave you. All are official websites and none of the information is opinion based. Spending has continued to increase despite all the rhetoric - something that also happened during the Thatcher era when she was supposed to have imposed massive cuts everywhere too.

Personally it's where I see the Coalition government failing. There should have been large scale cuts but that hasn't happened at all - perhaps down to the Liberal Democrats influence on the government.

Have you got any proof of these massive cuts to trump the official figures? Have you got information that the SNP hasn't delivered to anyone yet that shows beyond all doubt that an independent Scotland can definitely meet Alex Salmonds pledges?

The links are there, you might want to start with that good old left wing rag, the daily mail which shows how and where cuts are being made or the FT which shows how they will continue after next Westminster election until 2020 at least. I neither have time or ability on my phone to post links at the moment. They also show up your "facts" as being incorrect which isn't really a surprise...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The links are there, you might want to start with that good old left wing rag, the daily mail which shows how and where cuts are being made or the FT which shows how they will continue after next Westminster election until 2020 at least. I neither have time or ability on my phone to post links at the moment. They also show up your "facts" as being incorrect which isn't really a surprise...

So that's no to proof then. That's always the Nationalist way isn't it. Big on rhetoric and light on facts - add in some smears and hope no-one notices.

Spending has been increased Tony that's an absolute fact. And in health and education it's increased every single year the coalition has been in power and they've done this while cutting tax bills for everyone. There isn't a shred of evidence anywhere that in independent Scotland could do the same

Edited by Stuart Dickson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should add that I love how last week the Ft was a paper full of lies and an anti Nationalist agenda and today Tony the lying Natsi is paraphrasing them without linking to articles

And we love that you're so stupid, that you can't distinguish between criticism regarding the journalistic political leanings of a newspaper and using articles containing quotes from the UK's most respected think tanks to support an argument.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1c8c2992-cf6a-11e2-a050-00144feab7de.html#axzz2vreoBaSX

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So that's no to proof then. That's always the Nationalist way isn't it. Big on rhetoric and light on facts - add in some smears and hope no-one notices.

Spending has been increased Tony that's an absolute fact. And in health and education it's increased every single year the coalition has been in power and they've done this while cutting tax bills for everyone. There isn't a shred of evidence anywhere that in independent Scotland could do the same

Absolute spending on NHS England may have increased but not nearly as fast as inflation and savings of £20 billion are still expected. You, of course, fail to mention the large increase in spending on alternative providers i.e. big business whose only reason for being involved with the NHS is to make profits.

With respect to conservative manifesto commitments, one of the main ones was not to institute top-down re-organisation of the NHS. I wonder how that one went! One of the ways in which they proposed to make savings was by reducing bureaucracy. The recent re-organisation of NHS England has produced new layers of bureaucracy and created confusion as to which organisation is responsible for which aspect of the NHS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolute spending on NHS England may have increased but not nearly as fast as inflation and savings of £20 billion are still expected. You, of course, fail to mention the large increase in spending on alternative providers i.e. big business whose only reason for being involved with the NHS is to make profits.

With respect to conservative manifesto commitments, one of the main ones was not to institute top-down re-organisation of the NHS. I wonder how that one went! One of the ways in which they proposed to make savings was by reducing bureaucracy. The recent re-organisation of NHS England has produced new layers of bureaucracy and created confusion as to which organisation is responsible for which aspect of the NHS.

At last - one Natsi who recognises the facts. Spending has increased while taxes have been cut under the current coalition government. This was the claim Danny Alexander and Alastair Darling to whit Tony made a disparaging remark about "irony". There is no proof at all that an Independent Scotland could do the same thing - increasing spending in education and healthcare whilst cutting taxes - in a period of austerity or not. That's the case the SNP have to make and prove beyond all doubt if they are to turn this referendum campaign around and they simply cannot and won't do it - because quite frankly Scots will be worse off financially in an Independent country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really do pity your children for having a parent that is so bitter to even think of calling a fellow human being that.

Now i think of it, are you still involved in an official capacity with youth football?

I pity the children that ever come in contact with such a vile person. In fact do the parents know you write things like the above. Because you should be not allowed anywhere near any child never mind your own.

FFS :rolleyes: Natsi drama queen.....:rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And we love that you're so stupid, that you can't distinguish between criticism regarding the journalistic political leanings of a newspaper and using articles containing quotes from the UK's most respected think tanks to support an argument.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1c8c2992-cf6a-11e2-a050-00144feab7de.html#axzz2vreoBaSX

So this week it's the UK's most respected newspaper - will I dig out what your fellow nationalists were saying about it last week? :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see Babcock has raised it's concerns about an Independent Scotland. This despite saying it would back independence two years ago. It appears reality has sunk in

And from the same article.

Meanwhile, industry group Scottish Engineering has said independence "would not be in the interests" of the sector.

Launching a study based on responses from about a third of its membership, chief executive Bryan Buchan said: "The majority of those responding indicated that, in their opinion, independence would not be in the interests of the manufacturing engineering industry in Scotland.

"Significant minorities said that they sought further clarity, or that the question was solely a matter for politicians and the electorate.

"Very few members expressed outright support for independence."

Glug, glug, glug goes the Yes Campaign - sunk like the Titanic

Edited by Stuart Dickson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...