Free Entry At Firhill For Serving Armed Forces

[TediousTom]

OK.... I'm setting myself up to be shot down in flames here by daring to speak the thing we dare not speak of... but it really get's me and here goes... ...

before I start... irrespective of what follows... kudos Jags... a forward thinking club prepared to do something different and reach out to the community... ...

now for my gripe... ... ... ...

aye... It's remembrance Sunday and I will have my poppy on and be paying my respects... ...

but why is a service person more worthy of free entry than a nurse in Yorkhill facing dying kids day after day?

Help For Heroes... ... it is a charity that since set up has taken in millions... ...

but as far as I can see... our Government employs military personnel... it should damned well look after them should they come back needing support... that is NOT the job of a charity!

People don't choose to have cancer, dementia, and a myriad of other illnesses that charities try to support.

People willingly elect to serve their country... the very country that SHOULD support them to the fullest extent when they have finished active duty. But if a "charity" takes millions from the charity pool to support them them why the hell should the government bother fulfilling their duties?

I have an acquaintance who was in the military and has now retired... he fundraises for Help For Heroes... as a result, he gets numerous freebies... free concert tickets... discounts galore... ... ... he never once saw active service... he did the bloody payroll FFS!!!!!!

How the hell is it right that a payroll operator gets freebies that a nurse in a hospice or a kids hospital; that a care-worker on minimum wage wiping arses and lovingly doing whatever needs done simply cannot?

(aaaaaaaaaaaaand breathe!!!)

You have a perfectly valid point my forum friend but without spending too much of my valuable time left of this earth reading the entire thread I would like to add to the point under discussion with a varying viewpoint.

We live in a country where thanks to people of my generation and beyond we enjoy the extremely valuable freedom whereby our finest young men and women are no longer forced to enter the national service of our country. Today I remembered people whom I knew well and I am proud to have known. I remember only some of the names now, I remember all of the faces. Today we still have some our finest young people serving abroad in varying theatres of war. Every one of those volunteered to serve our country, every last one. War affects not only the brave young people stepping forward to serve but the parents, the wives/husbands/partners, children and friends who keep an all too often fruitless vigil hoping for the safe return of the loved one.

What is in fact only a small gesture by one of our football clubs shows the finest amongst us that many of us appreciate them, we are proud of them and even though we may not know them as individuals many of us still hope for there safe return. Events like yesterday are a small but effective "pat on the back" and no one whom I wish to know would in any way argue with such a fine act.

Well done Partick Thistle. I hope the fine young men and women enjoyed the day, appreciated the good will afforded them and marvelled at a fine performance from the Paisley men.

Lest we forget forum user's, lest we forget.

[buddiecat]

I've always wondered why St. Mirren never let members of the Armed Forces in for free.

that will be because serving members of the armed forces have chosen this as their career, the people i will respect today are those who did not sign up as a career move, but who still fought for their country - they are the real heroes

[buddiecat]

No arguments from me about that. I just wondered why some teams do it and some don't that was all.

i'd say no teams should do it, it should be a matter of choice - just like signing up for the armed forces is a choice

[TediousTom]

that will be because serving members of the armed forces have chosen this as their career, the people i will respect today are those who did not sign up as a career move, but who still fought for their country - they are the real heroes

That actually upsets me. If people better than you were not willing to step forward into such a dangerous career then we would still have national service. Despite your apparent ignorance I am truly offended by your viewpoint, in fact I find it disgusting and I am only thankful that I do not know you and as such will never have to endure your presence. Whether you wish to admit it or not, the fact remains that you owe as much to our serving armed forces as we did when my generation was at its strongest and fittest.

I don't like this thread and I will not be back as I wish to spend my remembrance remembering and not bickering with the ignorant.

[buddiecat]

That actually upsets me. If people better than you were not willing to step forward into such a dangerous career then we would still have national service. Despite your apparent ignorance I am truly offended by your viewpoint, in fact I find it disgusting and I am only thankful that I do not know you and as such will never have to endure your presence. Whether you wish to admit it or not, the fact remains that you owe as much to our serving armed forces as we did when my generation was at its strongest and fittest.

I don't like this thread and I will not be back as I wish to spend my remembrance remembering and not bickering with the ignorant.

people better than me ? thats not in question, those people chose to sign up, and i don't see what threat the argentinians or iraqis or afghans posed to me, it's all political, and i repeat - they signed up - i owe them nothing, they have killed many innocent people in afghanistan and iraq; are they remembered today - no

[buddiecat]

That actually upsets me. If people better than you were not willing to step forward into such a dangerous career then we would still have national service. Despite your apparent ignorance I am truly offended by your viewpoint, in fact I find it disgusting and I am only thankful that I do not know you and as such will never have to endure your presence. Whether you wish to admit it or not, the fact remains that you owe as much to our serving armed forces as we did when my generation was at its strongest and fittest.

I don't like this thread and I will not be back as I wish to spend my remembrance remembering and not bickering with the ignorant.

you want to view yourself as better than me and in the same sentence call me ignorant and disgusting just because i have a different opinion than you do, laughable, i see photos of dead children in afghanistan and iraq and of people being tortured and humiliated by british troops in iraq - i would not like to spend a minute even thinking that this was done to protect me

[lovestreet]

How very dare you! You're not allowed freedom of speech on here!

Just like you're freedom of choice being taken away with minute silences for British Forces at football stadiums

[bluto]

i'd say no teams should do it, it should be a matter of choice - just like signing up for the armed forces is a choice

That's surprisingly simplistic and - dare I say - "stupid"?

I have not been in love with 'our' most recent forays into overseas wars, but I can see that our armed forces do wonderful work.

"Signing up" is not the simple matter of choice that you blithely suggest.

It involves a complicated set of reasons and decisions. Reasons such as our current armed services recruit from areas which traditionally have offered their younger generations little opportunity. The services offer an escape for so many young folk throughout the UK. The choice you are suggesting is remaining on the dole or getting into drugs or... offering yourself in service for your country and your compatriots.

Young people do want to get a job, engaged with life, find a purpose. If it's in our Service, how can that be a bad thing?! It's not.

Service is creditable aspiration. Service to unfortunate parts of the world like in the Balkans and throughout the community of the UK. They do that, too. You might not like the decisions that politicians take that involve our service people but that is no fault of theirs. They demand our respect for the shite they go into.

I guess you'd be happier if they stayed on the dole and littered the pedestrianised High Street?

The freedom of choice that you (Maximillion and lovestreet) advocate comes with a concomitant acceptance of a responsibility that you receive along with that glorious freedom. It's a tacit acceptance that the majority of people in the society that puts up with you also has a freedom of choice.

Their choice might well be to celebrate their war dead in various venues. I might well be in agreement with you about where that should be, but I certainly don't think the minority is in a position to proscribe or deny THEIR choice.

I know democracy is too big a word to use in times when some parts of our democracy want to separate cos not all of their minority wishes match what the rest of the country inflicts upon them, but is it so hard to accept that the majority of people in the UK still want to remember the generations that gave their lives for our good? And to try to shut up, accept it - or make yourself scarce whilst all the shite you loathe goes on?

I've never seen a Royal wedding, divorce or funeral cos I think it's all shite. I take myself off to places where I need not suffer. I don't watch tv. So I don't play their game and I don't get upset about it.

I've never seen any of England supposedly winning a World Cup at once upon a time, because I am grown up enough to know that it might upset me.

Just learn to accept that your petted lip cannot always win the day and that other folk might genuinely, inexplicably, like other things.

I guess my great age has just made me so much more mature.

I hope this helps?

Edited November 10, 2013 by bluto

[spoogy1]

people better than me ? thats not in question, those people chose to sign up, and i don't see what threat the argentinians or iraqis or afghans posed to me, it's all political, and i repeat - they signed up - i owe them nothing, they have killed many innocent people in afghanistan and iraq; are they remembered today - no

Thats a laugh that is killing innocent people you have got too be kidding me. Have you been to Iraq or Afghan ?

[Dave M]

Just like you're freedom of choice being taken away with minute silences for British Forces at football stadiums

Thats a good few posts, and I think everyone gets your point. You can surely shut up now.

I was surprised that only 2 of the 6 clubs in the SPFL participated in remembrance. Not ony because they have done it every other year,.. or even as a mark of respect, what with being very large community bases and a focus of many thousands of people,... but even more so because pretty much every club had players and fans killed in the great war, not to mention WWII. To forget about those players and fans who served is an absolute disgrace.

The little anti-british, anti-army, anti-everything chompers can easily think their own thoughts, or take solace in the company of a Celtic supporting atmosphere outside the ground if they want to go all 'Celtic'. I'm sure the vast majority would've appreciated a minutes silence, more out of respect for the sacrifice of the fallen than anything else.

[oaksoft]

That's surprisingly simplistic and - dare I say - "stupid"?

I have not been in love with 'our' most recent forays into overseas wars, but I can see that our armed forces do wonderful work.

"Signing up" is not the simple matter of choice that you blithely suggest.

It involves a complicated set of reasons and decisions. Reasons such as our current armed services recruit from areas which traditionally have offered their younger generations little opportunity. The services offer an escape for so many young folk throughout the UK. The choice you are suggesting is remaining on the dole or getting into drugs or... offering yourself in service for your country and your compatriots.

Young people do want to get a job, engaged with life, find a purpose. If it's in our Service, how can that be a bad thing?! It's not.

Service is creditable aspiration. Service to unfortunate parts of the world like in the Balkans and throughout the community of the UK. They do that, too. You might not like the decisions that politicians take that involve our service people but that is no fault of theirs. They demand our respect for the shite they go into.

I guess you'd be happier if they stayed on the dole and littered the pedestrianised High Street?

The freedom of choice that you (Maximillion and lovestreet) advocate comes with a concomitant acceptance of a responsibility that you receive along with that glorious freedom. It's a tacit acceptance that the majority of people in the society that puts up with you also has a freedom of choice.

Their choice might well be to celebrate their war dead in various venues. I might well be in agreement with you about where that should be, but I certainly don't think the minority is in a position to proscribe or deny THEIR choice.

I know democracy is too big a word to use in times when some parts of our democracy want to separate cos not all of their minority wishes match what the rest of the country inflicts upon them, but is it so hard to accept that the majority of people in the UK still want to remember the generations that gave their lives for our good? And to try to shut up, accept it - or make yourself scarce whilst all the shite you loathe goes on?

I've never seen a Royal wedding, divorce or funeral cos I think it's all shite. I take myself off to places where I need not suffer. I don't watch tv. So I don't play their game and I don't get upset about it.

I've never seen any of England supposedly winning a World Cup at once upon a time, because I am grown up enough to know that it might upset me.

Just learn to accept that your petted lip cannot always win the day and that other folk might genuinely, inexplicably, like other things.

I guess my great age has just made me so much more mature.

I hope this helps?

Any chance we could simply agree that football should be kept out of this nonsense?

[oaksoft]

On the positive side, this thread is considerably shorter than the one we had last year.

Maybe people are starting to accept that our society is moving on from this.

Clearly in public people support the armed forces because to do otherwise invites abuse.

It's getting to the point now where it's not enough to show your support.

There is considerable pressure for public speakers to outdo everyone else in their praise for fear of being attacked.

This is called Dianafication and it's putting people off the armed forces privately.

There's no doubt about this. I'm seeing a big increase in people rolling their eyes each November and it's because of people holding some of the views above.

[oaksoft]

Thats a laugh that is killing innocent people you have got too be kidding me. Have you been to Iraq or Afghan ?

Are you seriously suggesting that absolutely no innocent people were killed in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Or are you suggesting that there ARE no innocent people in either country?

Either way, you aren't looking too smart with that comment.

[bluto]

Any chance we could simply agree that football should be kept out of this nonsense?

I could certainly agree with that.

However, as the majority of people do seem content with this way of displaying support for the Services, past and present, I have no problem with holding my peace.

You could go for a referendum every few years of football fans who want the "outside world kept strictly outside of football stadia". But that would be silly and generate little support, as the majority of people do engage in and with the real world, not one to which we one day MIGHT aspire.

[spoogy1]

 

Are you seriously suggesting that absolutely no innocent people were killed in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Or are you suggesting that there ARE no innocent people in either country?

Either way, you aren't looking too smart with that comment.

I am saying that the boys DO NOT go over and kill innocent people and if there is any innocent people killed then they are casualties of war. I know for a fact that the troops only shoot when shot at or they know that lives are indanger(themselves there comrades and civlians). So if innocent people are getting killed then it is the soldiers off this fine country. I can name 1 innocent person that has been killed in the fight too rid terrorism and his name is private Lee Rigby.

[GlenburnSaint]

The armed forces should be respected as should a minute silence if it is being held at a venue.

If there is a silence planned and you dont like it, Dont Go! Simples

Cant believe this is even being argued.

[RickMcD]

On the positive side, this thread is considerably shorter than the one we had last year.

Maybe people are starting to accept that our society is moving on from this.

Clearly in public people support the armed forces because to do otherwise invites abuse.

It's getting to the point now where it's not enough to show your support.

There is considerable pressure for public speakers to outdo everyone else in their praise for fear of being attacked.

This is called Dianafication and it's putting people off the armed forces privately.

There's no doubt about this. I'm seeing a big increase in people rolling their eyes each November and it's because of people holding some of the views above.

Wasn't going to contribute to this because it has been flogged to death ad nauseam. But your remark about people in public only support the armed forces because to do otherwise invites abuse amazes me. I've always supported our forces albeit with some reservations. Because of that, I can tell you that I have been subject to a considerable amount of abuse both in Scotland and over here in Ulster. Our forces don't choose where they have to go and fight. Blame the politicians. Around remembrance Sunday I wish folk would shut up for a day or so or, at least, leave the rank and file soldiers out of it. How folk get so upset about a few soldiers getting into Firhill free is astonishing.

I toyed with quoting Rudyard Kipling but I don't want to overload the thread with any more culture.

[stlucifer]

I didn't realise so many Thistle fans are French soldiers.........it's just that so many of them surrendered and left long before the match was finished.

Loads of them were telling us the score on the way out.....that was before Thommo scored the third.

Could have been worse.

They could have been Italian soldiers and hunted out the black 'n white scarves!

[oaksoft]

I could certainly agree with that.

However, as the majority of people do seem content with this way of displaying support for the Services, past and present, I have no problem with holding my peace.

You could go for a referendum every few years of football fans who want the "outside world kept strictly outside of football stadia". But that would be silly and generate little support, as the majority of people do engage in and with the real world, not one to which we one day MIGHT aspire.

Why not do your hero worshipping at the proper time and place and leave ordinary football fans who are not interested in this nonsense alone?

It would be quite nice to have a weekend's football in peace without war dogs bringing their beliefs into a sport.

Sport has nothing to do with religion and it has nothing to do with war.

Apart from anything else, a growing number of people are simply getting pissed off with this as it's getting completely over the top.

[oaksoft]

I am saying that the boys DO NOT go over and kill innocent people and if there is any innocent people killed then they are casualties of war.

That'll be a HUGE f**king comfort to the families of the victims who were largely living quite happily until a bunch of foreign soldiers landed on their shores and started firing bullets.

Nobody is saying they packed their bags planning to kill innocents but surprisingly enough when you invade someone else's country and start firing guns innocent people get hurt.

Edited November 11, 2013 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

The armed forces should be respected as should a minute silence if it is being held at a venue.

If there is a silence planned and you dont like it, Dont Go! Simples

Cant believe this is even being argued.

You actually want people to give up their sport for a weekend because a group of people want to hijack it with their beliefs in a forum completely unrelated to their beliefs?

Do you not get enough of a minutes silence on the 11th?

Is that not enough hero worshipping for you?

Edited November 11, 2013 by oaksoft

[GlenburnSaint]

You actually want people to give up their sport for a weekend because a group of people want to hijack it with their beliefs in a forum completely unrelated to their beliefs?

Do you not get enough of a minutes silence on the 11th?

Is that not enough for you?

You need that second minute do you?

Sssshhhhh!

[faraway saint]

You actually want people to give up their sport for a weekend because a group of people want to hijack it with their beliefs in a forum completely unrelated to their beliefs?

Do you not get enough of a minutes silence on the 11th?

Is that not enough hero worshipping for you?

3 questions, same answer, shut up.

Edited November 11, 2013 by faraway saint

[oaksoft]

Our forces don't choose where they have to go and fight. Blame the politicians.

You are wrong about that.

Our forces can choose exactly where to fight.

They can down tools and refuse to invade another country illegally.

Many have done exactly that over the years but your lot call them cowards.

If there are any heroes in this mess it's those who refused to fight.

We don't even honour them at remembrance sunday.

[oaksoft]

3 questions, same answer, shut up.

Never.

These people fought for my freedom of speech apparently.