beyond our ken Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 If Danny is still our manager next season I'll be flabbergasted. He's overstayed his welcome and I can only hope the Board of Directors have enough intelligence to see that he is failing badly at his job. The telling sign for me is the nature and predictability of our defeats - its not as if the last few games we have competed, or had a lot of chances which we failed to convert - with the exception of the Dundee Utd game (which, to be honest flattered us as the game could have went weither way at one point) we have been played off the park - no shots on goal against Celtic, absolutely dominated by St. Johnstone, relinquishing a lead at Kilmarnock. God, we couldn't even beat the worst Hearts team in decades at home after going into a lead after a few minutes. Our away form especially is, quite frankly, scandalous. I barely make away games any more but i expect us to lose every away game as I don't think the players have any belief that they can win. It shouldn't be like that. Danny is obviously a very nice man, cares deeply about the club and takes his job seriously - of that I have no doubt. However, he is out of his depth and suffering from the same mistakes over and over. Every transfer window passes and ends with us trying to pick up scraps and emerging from it with our fans looking at clubs around us with green eyes wondering why we haven't signed those players. Even the past week or so - Ross County & Partick, our 2 biggest rivals for the play-off spot, go out and sign quality strikers, both of who scored 2 goals today. We pin all our hopes on a 19yr old loan signing who has hardly played 1st team football! (not that I'm having a go at Campbell, who may well be very talented, but won't get any more goals if our tactics are to ping long balls at him when he is being marked by a guy 1 foot taller than him!). Is the big problem that no-one at the club has any ambition and are happy to accept mediocrity, and the occasional 3 points where things "click" on the day? Are the board happy travelling to away games every 2 weeks, only to leave with their heads held in embarrasment having watched the guys they pay a salary to mess it up yet again? Whatever they think, I honestly think we should expect more from the team and manager. The fans are being short changed. The problem at the club is the fact that the oard have put financial handcuffs on every aspect of management and are more or less absent. SG comes in for a couple of half days every week at most and only Brian McAusland weighs in with any help for the business side (including matters regarding signing) The various managers at the club must feel very isolated and the players can see this, many felt at the start of the season that the board had taken a roll of the dice with Hearts in disarray and the fact that players have left but arent being replaced in mid-season seems to back up this notion. I dont think there will be any signings since we expect McLean and Teale to come back soon-the board will bank the savings gained from any players coming off the wage bill. I thnk DL has been shafted, he signed Harkins in the belief that Gowser was away, only to find himself having Gowser offered back following the arrest. He was put in a very difficult situation-sign two players for the same position or let Gowser move on. County or Thistle could have picked him up for buttons on a short-term deal, that was a helluva risk. So Harkins nose is out of joint as he is not the first pick as playmaker and he goes on a one-man go slow, taking the team morale down with him. It is almost a perfect storm for the manager as he still has the malcontent players who think he is only keeping the job warm until they retire to contend with. He turned things around but as very thin squad was exposed by injuries to key players. The kids have done well but they need resting now, mid season is the time for experienced heads. I think we have a very tired looking squad and you cant squeeze performances from the mentally and physically exhausted. Many people slate the manager for his tactics and formation, but i listened to a manager on TV today say that formations and tactics are actually secondary, nothing works wothout performances from the team. We could actually do with a good freeze and a few cancelled matches just now to let the squad rest and heal a little while. I think the squad will stay in the doldrums for now for as long as we are still in the cup, unless the board really surprise me and release funds for a couple of players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan4ever Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 The problem at the club is the fact that the oard have put financial handcuffs on every aspect of management and are more or less absent. SG comes in for a couple of half days every week at most and only Brian McAusland weighs in with any help for the business side (including matters regarding signing) The various managers at the club must feel very isolated and the players can see this, many felt at the start of the season that the board had taken a roll of the dice with Hearts in disarray and the fact that players have left but arent being replaced in mid-season seems to back up this notion. I dont think there will be any signings since we expect McLean and Teale to come back soon-the board will bank the savings gained from any players coming off the wage bill. I thnk DL has been shafted, he signed Harkins in the belief that Gowser was away, only to find himself having Gowser offered back following the arrest. He was put in a very difficult situation-sign two players for the same position or let Gowser move on. County or Thistle could have picked him up for buttons on a short-term deal, that was a helluva risk. So Harkins nose is out of joint as he is not the first pick as playmaker and he goes on a one-man go slow, taking the team morale down with him. It is almost a perfect storm for the manager as he still has the malcontent players who think he is only keeping the job warm until they retire to contend with. He turned things around but as very thin squad was exposed by injuries to key players. The kids have done well but they need resting now, mid season is the time for experienced heads. I think we have a very tired looking squad and you cant squeeze performances from the mentally and physically exhausted. Many people slate the manager for his tactics and formation, but i listened to a manager on TV today say that formations and tactics are actually secondary, nothing works wothout performances from the team. We could actually do with a good freeze and a few cancelled matches just now to let the squad rest and heal a little while. I think the squad will stay in the doldrums for now for as long as we are still in the cup, unless the board really surprise me and release funds for a couple of players. The problem at the club is the fact that the oard have put financial handcuffs on every aspect of management and are more or less absent. SG comes in for a couple of half days every week at most and only Brian McAusland weighs in with any help for the business side (including matters regarding signing) The various managers at the club must feel very isolated and the players can see this, many felt at the start of the season that the board had taken a roll of the dice with Hearts in disarray and the fact that players have left but arent being replaced in mid-season seems to back up this notion. I dont think there will be any signings since we expect McLean and Teale to come back soon-the board will bank the savings gained from any players coming off the wage bill. I thnk DL has been shafted, he signed Harkins in the belief that Gowser was away, only to find himself having Gowser offered back following the arrest. He was put in a very difficult situation-sign two players for the same position or let Gowser move on. County or Thistle could have picked him up for buttons on a short-term deal, that was a helluva risk. So Harkins nose is out of joint as he is not the first pick as playmaker and he goes on a one-man go slow, taking the team morale down with him. It is almost a perfect storm for the manager as he still has the malcontent players who think he is only keeping the job warm until they retire to contend with. He turned things around but as very thin squad was exposed by injuries to key players. The kids have done well but they need resting now, mid season is the time for experienced heads. I think we have a very tired looking squad and you cant squeeze performances from the mentally and physically exhausted. Many people slate the manager for his tactics and formation, but i listened to a manager on TV today say that formations and tactics are actually secondary, nothing works wothout performances from the team. We could actually do with a good freeze and a few cancelled matches just now to let the squad rest and heal a little while. I think the squad will stay in the doldrums for now for as long as we are still in the cup, unless the board really surprise me and release funds for a couple of players. I agree with a lot you are saying but I do think the blame lies with Danny. He does himself no favours by hiding week in week out in the dugout leaving it up to Tommy to get the abuse fired at him. I would not give danny any money to spend I would save it for the new manager and hope the players that we have can keep us up. Yes he won a cup which saved his job last year but then dismanteled the team which cost us money with no reinforcements equal or better to what he let go. And I do not believe the board asked him to do that he has thought the cup would bring us into the top 6 and maybe it would have but with the team we had last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heidtheba Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Good points made, beyond our ken. Also it pains me to say it but Danny doesn't seem to be getting the response from many of our players (with a few notable exceptions eg Teale and the breakthrough young players) which other managers expect and get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Good points made, beyond our ken. Also it pains me to say it but Danny doesn't seem to be getting the response from many of our players (with a few notable exceptions eg Teale and the breakthrough young players) which other managers expect and get. I think that's fair. The manager has a role to play, and that's an important part. The reasons for this possibility are hard to pin down but still the managers job to solve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McGarvey' wonky legs Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 The problem at the club is the fact that the oard have put financial handcuffs on every aspect of management and are more or less absent. SG comes in for a couple of half days every week at most and only Brian McAusland weighs in with any help for the business side (including matters regarding signing) The various managers at the club must feel very isolated and the players can see this, many felt at the start of the season that the board had taken a roll of the dice with Hearts in disarray and the fact that players have left but arent being replaced in mid-season seems to back up this notion. I dont think there will be any signings since we expect McLean and Teale to come back soon-the board will bank the savings gained from any players coming off the wage bill. I thnk DL has been shafted, he signed Harkins in the belief that Gowser was away, only to find himself having Gowser offered back following the arrest. He was put in a very difficult situation-sign two players for the same position or let Gowser move on. County or Thistle could have picked him up for buttons on a short-term deal, that was a helluva risk. So Harkins nose is out of joint as he is not the first pick as playmaker and he goes on a one-man go slow, taking the team morale down with him. It is almost a perfect storm for the manager as he still has the malcontent players who think he is only keeping the job warm until they retire to contend with. He turned things around but as very thin squad was exposed by injuries to key players. The kids have done well but they need resting now, mid season is the time for experienced heads. I think we have a very tired looking squad and you cant squeeze performances from the mentally and physically exhausted. Many people slate the manager for his tactics and formation, but i listened to a manager on TV today say that formations and tactics are actually secondary, nothing works wothout performances from the team. We could actually do with a good freeze and a few cancelled matches just now to let the squad rest and heal a little while. I think the squad will stay in the doldrums for now for as long as we are still in the cup, unless the board really surprise me and release funds for a couple of players. Agree with a lot of the post but McGowan was arrested two and a half months after signing the new one year contract. It is time for Danny to be punted as he cannot be trusted to sign anymore players. Chances are we will get a Celtic youth and possibly one other if he survives the week.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I agree with a lot you are saying but I do think the blame lies with Danny. He does himself no favours by hiding week in week out in the dugout leaving it up to Tommy to get the abuse fired at him. I would not give danny any money to spend I would save it for the new manager and hope the players that we have can keep us up. Yes he won a cup which saved his job last year but then dismanteled the team which cost us money with no reinforcements equal or better to what he let go. And I do not believe the board asked him to do that he has thought the cup would bring us into the top 6 and maybe it would have but with the team we had last year. Dismantled a squad? look at the raging success that Graham Carey has NOT proved to be since leaving us. We could only have kept Concalves if he was given a LOT of cash to spend and Dummet had no intentions of coming back. Samson loves Killie and was offered a standard wage for a standard keeper in th SPL. Many people slate DL for not offering him a longer deal, but if the board really were gambling on a Hearts and thistle collapse then maybe he was told no long term deals for players we cant sell (you cant sell a standard keeper in the SPL and that's a fact) Boards can brag about how much they put in a budget, but every penny is conditional. My firm belief is that this board saw an opportunity to tighten the screw for a year and left the manager out on a limb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 My firm belief is that this board saw an opportunity to tighten the screw for a year and left the manager out on a limb. My firm belief is that St. Mirren will break even this year just as we have done every single year since the current board took over almost 15 years ago. I believe the BoD have given the manager as much money to spend as they possibly can, just like they have always done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class of 76-77 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 In all the ensuing clamour to get rid of Danny, can I remind people that our board have previous for replacing managers with cheap options. If and when they do decide to replace Danny it's more likely that we're going to get another guy willing to work within a tight budget. Unless the club gets sold and we get new owners with some kind of investment plan to increase the player budget, then any new man will be working under the same restraints as Danny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Change the record will you? Great at suggesting we get rid while ignoring we cant afford to get rid and who do you think will come running to save us? Jeesus, grow up. In all the ensuing clamour to get rid of Danny, can I remind people that our board have previous for replacing managers with cheap options. If and when they do decide to replace Danny it's more likely that we're going to get another guy willing to work within a tight budget. Unless the club gets sold and we get new owners with some kind of investment plan to increase the player budget, then any new man will be working under the same restraints as Danny. A fact that is often overlooked. I would have loved Terry Butcher as our manager a few years ago but I doubt we could have afforded him. Quite rightly the club are living within our means, and that means we're f**ked in many aspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McGarvey' wonky legs Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 In all the ensuing clamour to get rid of Danny, can I remind people that our board have previous for replacing managers with cheap options. If and when they do decide to replace Danny it's more likely that we're going to get another guy willing to work within a tight budget. Unless the club gets sold and we get new owners with some kind of investment plan to increase the player budget, then any new man will be working under the same restraints as Danny. There will be plenty of volunteers to work within any budget that is laid out. It is all about tactics and getting the best out of players which Danny seems unable to do. Take the Hibs players under Fenlon and then under Butcher. Same players but a totally different work ethic and belief under Butcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) There will be plenty of volunteers to work within any budget that is laid out. It is all about tactics and getting the best out of players which Danny seems unable to do. Take the Hibs players under Fenlon and then under Butcher. Same players but a totally different work ethic and belief under Butcher. Do you think we could afford a "Butcher"? Fenlon, yes, he was probably taking them to relegation after initial success. Not saying Lennon, or St Mirren, couldn't end up in the same boat. You don't REALLY think we can find someone like Butcher? Yes, plenty volunteers, from where, lower leagues and a massive gamble like Lennon was? I'd say the gamble paid off, League Cup winner and highest finish in the SPL. I'm not particularly happy with our plight, and that mean St Mirren football club, so I would love some magical solution but sometime you need to be careful what you wish for. Edited January 12, 2014 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 There will be plenty of volunteers to work within any budget that is laid out. It is all about tactics and getting the best out of players which Danny seems unable to do. Take the Hibs players under Fenlon and then under Butcher. Same players but a totally different work ethic and belief under Butcher. Exactly , if we take ourselves in the 70s as an example , we had 7 players playing under Cunningham in our lowest ever league placing who played under Fergie in the Premier League and under Clunie in the top 3 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldo_j Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Not that I'm defending the manager, but I notice people trot out the point that he's not seen on the touchline very often. Plenty of good managers don't need to pound the edge of the technical area. Plenty of bad ones do. Either way, it's pretty irrelavant when discussing a managers quality. Oh, and no. Danny won't be getting contract for next season, and going on current form, may not potentially see the end of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McGarvey' wonky legs Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Do you think we could afford a "Butcher"? Fenlon, yes, he was probably taking them to relegation after initial success. Not saying Lennon, or St Mirren, couldn't end up in the same boat. You don't REALLY think we can find someone like Butcher? Yes, plenty volunteers, from where, lower leagues and a massive gamble like Lennon was? I'd say the gamble paid off, League Cup winner and highest finish in the SPL. I'm not particularly happy with our plight, and that mean St Mirren football club, so I would love some magical solution but sometime you need to be careful what you wish for. Any job that comes up there will be numerous managers quoted both with experience and also up and coming managers (some will be the usual suspects others a surprise). If you named everyone quoted it would be two or 3 different names each day that the papers insist are in the frame. All I pointed out was that some managers like say Butcher are able to get more out of players than others. At present I feel that pretty much anyone could come in and put us in a better place than we are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints0 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Do you think we could afford a "Butcher"? Fenlon, yes, he was probably taking them to relegation after initial success. Not saying Lennon, or St Mirren, couldn't end up in the same boat. You don't REALLY think we can find someone like Butcher? Yes, plenty volunteers, from where, lower leagues and a massive gamble like Lennon was? I'd say the gamble paid off, League Cup winner and highest finish in the SPL. I'm not particularly happy with our plight, and that mean St Mirren football club, so I would love some magical solution but sometime you need to be careful what you wish for. Short answer - yes , but it all comes down to trade offs ,risk and ambition . I would imagine he is on max £160k a year so if we binned two/three of our top earners problem solved .But would it be worth it ? would he unearth viable young and cheap replacements ? No idea but just to alleviate the mind numbing shite we are being served up 9 weeks out of ten i think the vast majority would be in favour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) What's gone wrong? It's barely a month since we were looking forward to a rather boring second half to the league campaign, instead we're involved in a 4-way scrap to avoid the play-off spot - at least it's better than fighting to avoid automatic relegation. My suspicion is that Danny's tendency to try and play football has come back to haunt him (and us), once again , come on Danny cut out the football and to use a favourite word of our absent friend Reynard let's shitfest our way out of trouble. New contract - still undecided. Edited January 12, 2014 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 What's gone wrong? It's barely a month since we were looking forward to a rather boring second half to the league campaign, instead we're involved in a 4-way scrap to avoid the play-off spot - at least it's better than fighting to avoid automatic relegation. My suspicion is that Danny's tendency to try and play football has come back to haunt him (and us), once again , come on Danny cut out the football and to use a favourite word of our absent friend Reynard let's shitfest our way out of trouble. New contract - still undecided. Going to be exciting, there's been a few seasons it's been shit and "meaningless" end of season games. Can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 It's not often I can say I've really enjoyed a reasonable passage of what I regard as good debate on this forum but there's a real danger of it happening here now. We've of course still got vituperation from clowns who think sacking Danny is a panacea for our troubles irrespective of who comes in afterwards. If only it was that simple. I have particularly liked beyond our ken's posts nos.268 and 273. Don't want to quote it all but I agreed with everything he said. I would particularly mention his reference to a manager saying that all the best thought out tactical plans under the sun are no good if the players don't perform. We all know the phrase 'the manager has lost the dressing room' and it looks as if there is something in that in Danny's case at present. I get the feeling some of our players should be having a right good look at themselves and reassessing their attitude. I'm afraid to say that I've been a St.Mirren fan for over sixty years and it has been my privilege over that time to have seen many players who would have died for St.Mirren. Unfortunately today we seem to have some who don't even want to break into a sweat for our club. Where is the board at present? Has Danny been abandoned? The board want to sell the club and that fact surely contributes to the reluctance to spend a penny on transfers. Is that Danny's fault? Our dealings in the transfer market look to have been shambolic over the last couple of years. The manager nowadays suggests players he would like at the club but after that it's down to the board. But a board that wants out isn't going to exactly push hard especially when parting with a fee might be regarded as making the club financially poorer in the short term and consequently even a bit more difficult to sell. I feel sorry for Danny. He's not perfect but then who is? Those who pour scorn on him at every opportunity should maybe be careful what they wish for. I don't see anyone obvious on the horizon that we can afford. The suggestion that Thomson and Teale with no experience might do it well is one hell of a risk. Danny is in a very sticky situation. The clamour from the dunderheaded masses is growing and the board is saying heehaw. Barring a remarkable turnround on the field with maybe an unlikely cup run, i cannot see him with us next season. Unfortunately some of our so called fans don't want to see that turnround happen, as it did last year, such is the hatred they show for Danny. They would have to find something else to moan about every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 On a related note to Rick's above, I'd be genuinely interested in who those who want to sack Danny expect us to replace him with. Who would we be expected to get within our price range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 My issues with Danny are twofold: 1. It took him long enough to find a system that worked for us with a string of good results culminating in that 4-1 over Dundee Utd.. But instead of keeping the formation and personnel he started to change things again to accomodate players like Harkins and Campbell resulting in another downward spiral. 2. Moving players into positions they are not comfortable with. We may have had no option when Teale got injured and someone had to play there ie Newton. For example Vanzy is never a central midfielder when we have McGinn, McLean and Newton in the squad. McGowan has to play behind a strikforce and not in front of a back row. Whatever job anyone does involves a learning curve. Nothing beats experience so mistakes will always be made while that experience is taking place. However over time people should improve no end from that learning curve. Has Danny? I really do not know. He has made a lot of mistakes over signings and formations in my opinion but I would always give him time to try and correct what is not working. He said on the radio yesterday that he had money to spend. I think the best option is let him spend it and make a decision in the summer about his contract. Binning him just now would cost too much and in my opinion there are no experienced managers on the horizon and within our budget that would instantly improve our fortunes. Think carefully about a Plan B over the next few months if Plan A does not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Can't disagree with anything Sonny has posted above. Danny won't be sacked. I am not sure that it would achieve anything in any event. Would I support the renewal of his contract? Sorry, but it has to be a no on that one. For whatever reason, it would appear that he is unable to facilitate any sustained progress, so, come the summer, it will be time to try something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmurray24 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 On a related note to Rick's above, I'd be genuinely interested in who those who want to sack Danny expect us to replace him with. Who would we be expected to get within our price range? It will need to be someone cheaper and untried and who will work with an even smaller budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 It will need to be someone cheaper and untried and who will work with an even smaller budget. That sounds depressingly realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 As I've mentioned a number of times before, next season's manager at St. Mirren will be Steven Thompson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 As I've mentioned a number of times before, next season's manager at St. Mirren will be Steven Thompson. Great scoop. While you're on a run, what league will we be in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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