Turned Around?

[Guest somner9]

Once again a person who only chooses to recognize one half of the argument, the other side of the scales hold 3 cup exits to lower league teams, two 11^th place finishes in the league, last season only an underprepared Dundee side finished below us - very much a mixed bag.

...........and yet your target for renewing his contract is tougher than mine.

I'll repeat my question from earlier - did Lennon say a Top Six finish was a target or a minimum acceptable finish?

Do you listen/read any of his press conferences?

[Bud the Baker]

Do you listen/read any of his press conferences?

Yeah, quite a few including this one which I reckon is a typical example............

St Mirren boss Danny Lennon wants his players to be inspired by last season’s shock top six finishers and fire the Buddies to European contention this year.

Lennon’s Saints limped to an 11th place finish in 2012/13 despite claiming the club’s first major silverware in 26 years.

The manager believes he has been able to address some of the weaknesses in his team through the summer and he has charged the Paisley men with living up to the top table finishes achieved by Ross County, Inverness and St Johnstone last season.

Lennon said: “We’ve had a fantastic pre-season in terms of trying to iron out our weaknesses and progressing our strengths.

“Every SPFL manager will want to get off to the best possible start and we’re no different.

“We want to raise our expectations and achieve more than last season.

“We envy what the Highland teams did last season, along with St Johnstone, as they were up against the odds and a lot of people didn’t think they would stay at that right end of the table.

“They had consistency and that’s what we will strive for.”

My problem is I see his aim of a Top Six finish not even directly quoted here as an aspiration not a declaration that anything less is a failure. If you can point to one where he specifically states that a Top Six finish is the minimum we should be achieving then fine - not that it'll make anything I've posted on the issue wrong.

Oh, and the offer of bet on us being in the Top Six by January 1^st is still open.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Bud the Baker

[Bud the Baker]

Yeah, quite a few including this one which I reckon is a typical example............

My problem is I see his aim of a Top Six finish not even directly quoted here as an aspiration not a declaration that anything less is a failure. If you can point to one where he specifically states that a Top Six finish is the minimum we should be achieving then fine - not that it'll make anything I've posted on the issue wrong.

Oh, and the offer of bet on us being in the Top Six by January 1^st is still open.

...............but answer came there none, and this was scarcely odd, with somner9 on the run!

[insaintee]

Stop quoting him, nobody, well almost nobody, bothers with him anymore.

Too much shite, too many times and he's become the forum ghost.

[insaintee]

What exactly did McPherson do that was better than what Danny has? Win a cup? Take us to the highest league position in decades? Nah didn't think so, this fixation with the horrible wee man that was Gus has to stop!!

Plus bored the arse of us

[billyg]

I wouldn't need you to be pointed out. You'd be the one standing on a table announcing your famous and brave victories to everyone not drunk enough to shut your voice out.

Of course you wouldn't be the first loud mouth in a pub to brag about how great you were so I'd wait until you announced how you could have been an SFL manager and then I'd be sure of who you were.

Of course I wouldn't come over and say it to your face.

Your manliness would intimidate me enough from the other side of the bar you big hunky scary thing you.

Is that the answer you were hoping for?

I hope so cos I'd like to get back to the thread.

5 days to come up with that piece of chest bashing just to get back to the thread you've been dodging ? Your insignificance far outweighs mine !

[WeeBud]

To answer your questions first "Big Yards"..........Yes Gus McPherson won us a cup, he also won us a league and took us to our highest league position for decades and certainly left St Mirren in a healthier state than the St Mirren he inherited, I don't think anyone can doubt that. I also think that he had probably run his course as Manager and things were going a bit stale.

What I don't understand is the fact that it is OK for a poster to decry what a manager has achieved and in other posts claim how unfair life is for Danny Lennon because people have dared to criticise him.

For what it's worth I'm grateful to both managers for seeing St Mirren steadily progress to a team playing consistently in the top division, winning a cup, two finals and a clutch of semi-finals in the last 5-6 years. If anyone tried really hard they would probably see that as a steady progress over the last 8-9 years.

Edited November 26, 2013 by WeeBud

[Big Yards]

To answer your questions first "Big Yards"..........Yes Gus McPherson won us a cup, he also won us a league and took us to our highest league position for decades and certainly left St Mirren in a healthier state than the St Mirren he inherited, I don't think anyone can doubt that. I also think that he had probably run his course as Manager and things were going a bit stale.

What I don't understand is the fact that it is OK for a poster to decry what a manager has achieved and in other posts claim how unfair life is for Danny Lennon because people have dared to criticise him.

For what it's worth I'm grateful to both managers for seeing St Mirren steadily progress to a team playing consistently in the top division, winning a cup, two finals and a clutch of semi-finals in the last 5-6 years. If anyone tried really hard they would probably see that as a steady progress over the last 8-9 years.

I agree Gus did well to take us up and keep us there, just! But he had run his course about 3 years before he was sacked and also had no respect for our support with statements like "if you want entertainment go to the pictures"

What I don't understand is why Gus got so much backing and respect from our fans yet Danny who has achieved even greater things just gets torrents of abuse no matter what he does!

[faraway saint]

I agree Gus did well to take us up and keep us there, just! But he had run his course about 3 years before he was sacked and also had no respect for our support with statements like "if you want entertainment go to the pictures"

What I don't understand is why Gus got so much backing and respect from our fans yet Danny who has achieved even greater things just gets torrents of abuse no matter what he does!

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's not in any way detrimental to what McPherson done for the club it's the incessant reminders we get and the unreasonable and frankly hilarious criticism Lennon gets.

McPherson, to be honest, also got quite a bit of unreasonable criticism close to the end, mainly down to his attitude and the dross served up week after week, funny how this seems to be forgotten when people remind us of his achievements.

Let McPherson go, he's long gone, his record speaks for itself, lets get on with supporting the club now.

[Lex]

Danny said he wanted to make us a regular top six side when he signed his last contract.

That was in 2011.

[faraway saint]

Danny said he wanted to make us a regular top six side when he signed his last contract.

That was in 2011.

Did he or are you making it up?

If he did there's nothing wrong with ambition, not sure he would have known he'd have to do it on a shoestring but he's already won us a national trophy, maybe this is the season the leagues paupers will make top 6, although I'd rather win another cup.

[Drew]

Danny said he wanted to make us a regular top six side when he signed his last contract.

That was in 2011.

What would you have had him say?

Of course he would say something to that effect. It is a reasonable ambition for a new St Mirren manager. Whether you choose to judge him on whether and when he would achieve this, is your prerogative, but surely you cannot take issue with what he said in 2011, nor why he said it.

ETA: it is worth bearing in mind that bigger clubs have failed to attain the position of regular top 6 finishers with significantly higher budgets. Danny set his sights quite high, and he should not be criticised for that.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Drew

[Hambud]

I agree Gus did well to take us up and keep us there, just! But he had run his course about 3 years before he was sacked and also had no respect for our support with statements like "if you want entertainment go to the pictures"

What I don't understand is why Gus got so much backing and respect from our fans yet Danny who has achieved even greater things just gets torrents of abuse no matter what he does!

You'll probably find it is the same people that wanted rid of Gus that want rid of Danny. Other than Isabella Duke who is the internets biggest WUM I don't think anyone would say sack Danny and bring back Gus.

There are people that support the club and are happy to go along to watch the team and there are people, who are never happy with what they see at St Mirren games and want rid of the manager, want rid of the board, want rid of Goodwin etc etc.

I'll admit I was very sceptical of Danny right up until I saw the U20's play Celtic in December last season and I realised that the good things he was trying to do with the first time were being instilled in the younger teams and if he could keep the job long enough to get these boys into the first team then the future could be bright.

I wouldn't ever campaign for the manager to lose his job though, I may find it difficult to defend them and no way would I dish out personal abuse to them.

I w

[W6Saint]

Danny said he wanted to make us a regular top six side when he signed his last contract.

That was in 2011.

That's paper talk Lex, he was trying to bring some ambition to our club because of the fact we had none previously, no ambition to go anywhere as fans and constantly harping back to the glory days. Are you ever finished whinging? Or posting constant drivel on here and P&B for that matter? All you do is make a fool of yourself by making knee-jerk decisions and being negative about EVERYTHING. Please just cheer up, we're actually on a decent run (which won't last because guess what, Danny Lennon isn't the next Mourinho). We're St Mirren, not Man Utd.

[W6Saint]

You'll probably find it is the same people that wanted rid of Gus that want rid of Danny. Other than Isabella Duke who is the internets biggest WUM I don't think anyone would say sack Danny and bring back Gus.

There are people that support the club and are happy to go along to watch the team and there are people, who are never happy with what they see at St Mirren games and want rid of the manager, want rid of the board, want rid of Goodwin etc etc.

I'll admit I was very sceptical of Danny right up until I saw the U20's play Celtic in December last season and I realised that the good things he was trying to do with the first time were being instilled in the younger teams and if he could keep the job long enough to get these boys into the first team then the future could be bright.

I wouldn't ever campaign for the manager to lose his job though, I may find it difficult to defend them and no way would I dish out personal abuse to them.

I w

Amen. Danny Lennon has a long term plan, and some things won't work out. We all frustrated by him at some points but as long as he is St Mirren Manager he will try his best to bring success. I know that for sure

[Kendo]

The Danny, McPherson debate annoys me.

They both done good and the record books will reflect this. I wish people would treat them both with the respect that they both deserve

Edited November 26, 2013 by Kendo

[Lex]

Jeez, talk about an over reaction! :

Did he or are you making it up?

If he did there's nothing wrong with ambition, not sure he would have known he'd have to do it on a shoestring but he's already won us a national trophy, maybe this is the season the leagues paupers will make top 6, although I'd rather win another cup.

Here's the link FS: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/st-mirren-extend-manager-danny-1087664

Here's the quote:

' "I've been here for about 16 months now and I believe that we have started an exciting journey towards our ambitions of making this club a regular top six side with a reputation for playing good quality football and developing fresh, young talent. '

Who said there was anything wrong with ambition? I certainly never, i was delighted when he said that in 2011. It's a pity he cannot match his own ambition though.

What would you have had him say?

Of course he would say something to that effect. It is a reasonable ambition for a new St Mirren manager. Whether you choose to judge him on whether and when he would achieve this, is your prerogative, but surely you cannot take issue with what he said in 2011, nor why he said it.

ETA: it is worth bearing in mind that bigger clubs have failed to attain the position of regular top 6 finishers with significantly higher budgets. Danny set his sights quite high, and he should not be criticised for that.

Jeez man. How am i taking issue with what he said? All i said was this is what he said and this is when he said it. If you have an issue with that i suggest you take it up with Danny Lennon not me.

With your last points... yes bigger clubs have failed to attain that. Each one of them have sacked their manager because of it. On the flip side its worth baring in mind that smaller clubs with similar or lesser budgets have attained the position of top 6.

That's paper talk Lex, he was trying to bring some ambition to our club because of the fact we had none previously, no ambition to go anywhere as fans and constantly harping back to the glory days. Are you ever finished whinging? Or posting constant drivel on here and P&B for that matter? All you do is make a fool of yourself by making knee-jerk decisions and being negative about EVERYTHING. Please just cheer up, we're actually on a decent run (which won't last because guess what, Danny Lennon isn't the next Mourinho). We're St Mirren, not Man Utd.

Mate, relax, it's only a game.

[Kendo]

Jeez, talk about an over reaction! :

Here's the link FS: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/st-mirren-extend-manager-danny-1087664

Here's the quote:

[

Who said there was anything wrong with ambition? I certainly never, i was delighted when he said that in 2011. It's a pity he cannot match his own

Ambition is a fine thing, leave him alone.

[W6Saint]

Jeez, talk about an over reaction! :

Here's the link FS: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/st-mirren-extend-manager-danny-1087664

Here's the quote:

' "I've been here for about 16 months now and I believe that we have started an exciting journey towards our ambitions of making this club a regular top six side with a reputation for playing good quality football and developing fresh, young talent. '

Who said there was anything wrong with ambition? I certainly never, i was delighted when he said that in 2011. It's a pity he cannot match his own ambition though.

Jeez man. How am i taking issue with what he said? All i said was this is what he said and this is when he said it. If you have an issue with that i suggest you take it up with Danny Lennon not me.

With your last points... yes bigger clubs have failed to attain that. Each one of them have sacked their manager because of it. On the flip side its worth baring in mind that smaller clubs with similar or lesser budgets have attained the position of top 6.

Mate, relax, it's only a game.

I know fine well it's only a game, that's why I don't near enough explode on every social networking platform available when we lose.

[smcc]

"I've been here for about 16 months now and I believe that we have started an exciting journey towards our ambitions of making this club a regular top six side with a reputation for playing good quality football and developing fresh, young talent. '

I don't see anything in this statement two years ago that put a time scale on realising this ambition. It is really only this season that we have begun to see the full fruits of developing fresh young talent.

Edited November 26, 2013 by smcc

[Lex]

Ambition is a fine thing, leave him alone.

I have never and would never criticise anyone for having ambition.

I know fine well it's only a game, that's why I don't near enough explode on every social networking platform available when we lose.

But you explode when i bring up an old quote? I would comment on your posts, but i haven't the foggiest idea who you are. Quite flattering you seem to be such an expert on me though.

"I've been here for about 16 months now and I believe that we have started an exciting journey towards our ambitions of making this club a regular top six side with a reputation for playing good quality football and developing fresh, young talent. '

I don't see anything in this statement two years ago that put a time scale on realising this ambition. It is really only this season that we have begun to see the full fruits of developing fresh young talent.

Surely he's referring to the duration of his contract? Would have been a bit presumptuous to make plans for longer?

[W6Saint]

I have never and would never criticise anyone for having ambition.

But you explode when i bring up an old quote? I would comment on your posts, but i haven't the foggiest idea who you are. Quite flattering you seem to be such an expert on me though.

Surely he's referring to the duration of his contract? Would have been a bit presumptuous to make plans for longer?

Indeed, I have exploded. That suits me. Continue not knowing who I am and i'll continue knowing that you are the St Mirren Fan that causes general hilarity for fans of other clubs on Pie and Bovril

[Lex]

Indeed, I have exploded. That suits me. Continue not knowing who I am and i'll continue knowing that you are the St Mirren Fan that causes general hilarity for fans of other clubs on Pie and Bovril

Nice to see you seem to have calmed down slightly. Now I'll add you to my list of voyeurs. Hope you enjoy the show

[W6Saint]

Nice to see you seem to have calmed down slightly. Now I'll add you to my list of voyeurs. Hope you enjoy the show

You're not funny, realise this and the world will be a better place.

[Lex]

You're not funny, realise this and the world will be a better place.

Lighten up man, it's only the internet.