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Putting The Fans In Control


rea

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Until the football governing bodies in Scotland insist on strict financial controls that all clubs must adhere to there is very little that will change.

Instead of trying to mimic the English model, the SFA and the relevant league bodies should be modelling our game on the German Bundesliga system that has been successful since the 1960's.

Instead these governing bodies are only interested in their own self importance and this will continue to destroy our national game.

Fans up and down the country are treated like shit and the rise of ticket prices will continue to drive supporters away.

There needs to be a significant change in attitude of supporters towards joining their own clubs supporters trust.

The power will come to supporters when there is sufficient number that reflect the majority of the support.

If SMISA had 2-3000 members contributing £2 per month it could start to build up a fund to support share purchase.

Sadly I don't see that happening - even in times of trouble SMISA could only manage to get around 100 fans to put in regular donations.

IIRC SMISA have raised well over £100,000. SMISA are cash rich to the tune of £50,000.

Imagine if 1000 fans had joined SMISA instead of 100 during that period?

I'd be more than happy to make a monthly contribution to a co-operative that's purpose was to fund share purchase. I don't think a one-off purchase of a controlling interest is likely to happen now, but there must be some scope for smaller purchases over a period of time - though I understand SMISA have had some difficulty in that respect. I've never got the impression that SMISA were particularly interested in having full control over the club, and I remember reading an article in the Black & White magazine to that effect, but having a fans organisation with any kind of significant shareholding could only be a good thing IMO.

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Community ownership of football clubs is the way forward - but I've talked about this till I've burned myself out on the subject.

I took a wee trip over to K Park in East Kilbride just over a week ago where I watched EKFC playing a match. Clyde are moving there from next season AFAIK. It's a great wee venue run by the East Kilbride Community Trust and EKFC - who have journalist Iain King heavily active on their board - appear to have a very good set up that will be the building blocks for their future. It'll be interesting to watch the dynamics of what happens when Clyde move in and it'll be interesting to see if a real partnership can be developed between the two clubs and how that works within the local community.

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Community ownership of football clubs is the way forward - but I've talked about this till I've burned myself out on the subject.

I took a wee trip over to K Park in East Kilbride just over a week ago where I watched EKFC playing a match. Clyde are moving there from next season AFAIK. It's a great wee venue run by the East Kilbride Community Trust and EKFC - who have journalist Iain King heavily active on their board - appear to have a very good set up that will be the building blocks for their future. It'll be interesting to watch the dynamics of what happens when Clyde move in and it'll be interesting to see if a real partnership can be developed between the two clubs and how that works within the local community.

Please do carry on talking about it, but don't print it on here.

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Community ownership of football clubs is the way forward - but I've talked about this till I've burned myself out on the subject.

I took a wee trip over to K Park in East Kilbride just over a week ago where I watched EKFC playing a match. Clyde are moving there from next season AFAIK. It's a great wee venue run by the East Kilbride Community Trust and EKFC - who have journalist Iain King heavily active on their board - appear to have a very good set up that will be the building blocks for their future. It'll be interesting to watch the dynamics of what happens when Clyde move in and it'll be interesting to see if a real partnership can be developed between the two clubs and how that works within the local community.

Clyde FC are not moving to K Park.

However both Clubs currently train on the same nights of the week and have a great relationship in terms of Players and Coaches from what I can tell

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Community ownership of football clubs is the way forward - but I've talked about this till I've burned myself out on the subject.

I took a wee trip over to K Park in East Kilbride just over a week ago where I watched EKFC playing a match. Clyde are moving there from next season AFAIK. It's a great wee venue run by the East Kilbride Community Trust and EKFC - who have journalist Iain King heavily active on their board - appear to have a very good set up that will be the building blocks for their future. It'll be interesting to watch the dynamics of what happens when Clyde move in and it'll be interesting to see if a real partnership can be developed between the two clubs and how that works within the local community.

Clyde aren't moving until a new ground/stadium is built from what I understand, in fact a lot of Clyde fans are pretty sceptical about it coming to fruition at all.

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Clyde aren't moving until a new ground/stadium is built from what I understand, in fact a lot of Clyde fans are pretty sceptical about it coming to fruition at all.

Don't tell stu that he insists Clyde (Nae grun) are the example all professional clubs in Scotland should follow... get Supporters Direct in! they've helped at:

Clyde

Dunfermline

Killie

Hearts

Sevco (allegedly)

And all the other clubs in/out the gary glitter we should strive to emulate

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Don't tell stu that he insists Clyde (Nae grun) are the example all professional clubs in Scotland should follow... get Supporters Direct in! they've helped at:

Clyde

Dunfermline

Killie

Hearts

Sevco (allegedly)

And all the other clubs in/out the gary glitter we should strive to emulate

You forgot Motherwell,east stirling, Livingston,stirling albion, ayr, kilmarnock and dumbarton , all of whom will be owned by the fans by the start of the new season, and don t rule out rangers yet , the momentum is shifting away from dictators or closed shops like our consortium ( or cartel ? )

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You forgot Motherwell,east stirling, Livingston,stirling albion, ayr, kilmarnock and dumbarton , all of whom will be owned by the fans by the start of the new season, and don t rule out rangers yet , the momentum is shifting away from dictators or closed shops like our consortium ( or cartel ? )

I didn't forget killie, Motherwell are an exception at the moment as not being a club in distress forced to seek funding from the only body willing to do so, it's fans. Hopefully they can make a fist of it, however there are grumblings already as to what representation/influence the fans actually have in excahnge for bankrolling the club. remember the club decided how, where and when Well would re-structure, not the fans.

The others and my list above are clubs are clubs who are, or headed into 'distress' and regardless whether its an individual, a consortium or fans group by the time its in distress this almost guarnatees the next regime will be dealing with the aftershock of that for years to come.

In Scotland there isn't as yet a 'Good Example' of a fan takeover, as it's always happened when the club is distressed and the fans group struggle to move forward. I note you forgot to add Dundee who only recently reversed there fan ownership model in exchange for the benjamin's!

I would add to liken the BoD of our club who saved the club, built a new stadium, training facility, all weather dome and won a league cup to a dictatorship/closed shop is poorly thought through bad form.

Anyone can join our current board, but normally you have to invest (with little prospect of realising a return) in the club to be allowed to do so. it's not closed, you just need to kiss goodbye to tens of thousands of pounds to take your seat (normally).

Do you honestly think the sharks that have their teeth into sevco are going to let go of that 'cash cow' whilst their are still tens of thousands of mug punters willing to throw money at them..?

Oh i'm sure they;ll be a token fund-raising in exchange for some toothless fan thingy, but the fans won't get near the books, money or running the club.

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I didn't forget killie, Motherwell are an exception at the moment as not being a club in distress forced to seek funding from the only body willing to do so, it's fans. Hopefully they can make a fist of it, however there are grumblings already as to what representation/influence the fans actually have in excahnge for bankrolling the club. remember the club decided how, where and when Well would re-structure, not the fans.

The others and my list above are clubs are clubs who are, or headed into 'distress' and regardless whether its an individual, a consortium or fans group by the time its in distress this almost guarnatees the next regime will be dealing with the aftershock of that for years to come.

In Scotland there isn't as yet a 'Good Example' of a fan takeover, as it's always happened when the club is distressed and the fans group struggle to move forward. I note you forgot to add Dundee who only recently reversed there fan ownership model in exchange for the benjamin's!

I would add to liken the BoD of our club who saved the club, built a new stadium, training facility, all weather dome and won a league cup to a dictatorship/closed shop is poorly thought through bad form.

Anyone can join our current board, but normally you have to invest (with little prospect of realising a return) in the club to be allowed to do so. it's not closed, you just need to kiss goodbye to tens of thousands of pounds to take your seat (normally).

Do you honestly think the sharks that have their teeth into sevco are going to let go of that 'cash cow' whilst their are still tens of thousands of mug punters willing to throw money at them..?

Oh i'm sure they;ll be a token fund-raising in exchange for some toothless fan thingy, but the fans won't get near the books, money or running the club.

Smashing alias. So much better than the last one, or in all likelihood, the next one.

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Clyde FC are not moving to K Park.

However both Clubs currently train on the same nights of the week and have a great relationship in terms of Players and Coaches from what I can tell

Fair enough Richard. I've probably put 2 and 2 together and got 22 instead of 4. I've been talking to the coaches at EKFC in our league and I got the impression that Clyde were going to be playing their home matches at K Park. Sitting in the stadium watching the kids match I assumed that it would probably be big enough for Clyde and with scope for three new stand on all three sides I thought it would be perfect.

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Fair enough Richard. I've probably put 2 and 2 together and got 22 instead of 4. I've been talking to the coaches at EKFC in our league and I got the impression that Clyde were going to be playing their home matches at K Park. Sitting in the stadium watching the kids match I assumed that it would probably be big enough for Clyde and with scope for three new stand on all three sides I thought it would be perfect.

The site at calderglen is not big enough and would need some upgrading and i supect some planning permission changes to do this. there is however the potential of a New Stadium in EK which would be suitable

Edited by rea
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Fair enough Richard. I've probably put 2 and 2 together and got 22 instead of 4. I've been talking to the coaches at EKFC in our league and I got the impression that Clyde were going to be playing their home matches at K Park. Sitting in the stadium watching the kids match I assumed that it would probably be big enough for Clyde and with scope for three new stand on all three sides I thought it would be perfect.

Stuart that sounds like an admission of.......I just made it up. :-)

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I'd be more than happy to make a monthly contribution to a co-operative that's purpose was to fund share purchase. I don't think a one-off purchase of a controlling interest is likely to happen now, but there must be some scope for smaller purchases over a period of time - though I understand SMISA have had some difficulty in that respect. I've never got the impression that SMISA were particularly interested in having full control over the club, and I remember reading an article in the Black & White magazine to that effect, but having a fans organisation with any kind of significant shareholding could only be a good thing IMO.

http://www.smisa.net/joinus

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I didn't forget killie, Motherwell are an exception at the moment as not being a club in distress forced to seek funding from the only body willing to do so, it's fans. Hopefully they can make a fist of it, however there are grumblings already as to what representation/influence the fans actually have in excahnge for bankrolling the club. remember the club decided how, where and when Well would re-structure, not the fans.

The others and my list above are clubs are clubs who are, or headed into 'distress' and regardless whether its an individual, a consortium or fans group by the time its in distress this almost guarnatees the next regime will be dealing with the aftershock of that for years to come.

In Scotland there isn't as yet a 'Good Example' of a fan takeover, as it's always happened when the club is distressed and the fans group struggle to move forward. I note you forgot to add Dundee who only recently reversed there fan ownership model in exchange for the benjamin's!

I would add to liken the BoD of our club who saved the club, built a new stadium, training facility, all weather dome and won a league cup to a dictatorship/closed shop is poorly thought through bad form.

Anyone can join our current board, but normally you have to invest (with little prospect of realising a return) in the club to be allowed to do so. it's not closed, you just need to kiss goodbye to tens of thousands of pounds to take your seat (normally).

Do you honestly think the sharks that have their teeth into sevco are going to let go of that 'cash cow' whilst their are still tens of thousands of mug punters willing to throw money at them..?

Oh i'm sure they;ll be a token fund-raising in exchange for some toothless fan thingy, but the fans won't get near the books, money or running the club.

The club have knocked back any investment since the formation of their cartel, it would mean reducing their 52prr cent holding, they have no discussion with the 48 per cent holders ,even to the point of not informing them when the AGM was being held and not sending copies of the accounts.

The club is stagnating and is in freefall if nothing changes soon

The dome is a great addition to the club but it is financed by the supporters trust, but this is a loan as they will not sell unissued shares.

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Ahem.......John that would be fair enough but I think you should disclose to potential new recruits that the money they donate isn't being used to purchase shares. Instead it's being used to give the football club soft loans to support capital projects that have the effect of propping up the selling price of the club, putting the objective of co-operative ownership even further out of reach.

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The club have knocked back any investment since the formation of their cartel, it would mean reducing their 52prr cent holding, they have no discussion with the 48 per cent holders ,even to the point of not informing them when the AGM was being held and not sending copies of the accounts.

The club is stagnating and is in freefall if nothing changes soon

The dome is a great addition to the club but it is financed by the supporters trust, but this is a loan as they will not sell unissued shares.

are you really suggesting that no one could by shares if they approached a shareholder and offered them what they wanted?

I do get your point Re: the consortium grouping their collective shares to force a sale to them... but if someone really wanted to invest (which we all know in scottish football means kiss your cash goodbye) then approaching the big shareholders in the 48% and buying their stakes to get towards 30% would soon entice one or more of the consortium to break ranks and sell to you.

The reality for the consortium is no one to date actually wants to use their own money (£1- 2m) to buy a football club that needs to fund a 300 - 400k shortfall....

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are you really suggesting that no one could by shares if they approached a shareholder and offered them what they wanted?

I do get your point Re: the consortium grouping their collective shares to force a sale to them... but if someone really wanted to invest (which we all know in scottish football means kiss your cash goodbye) then approaching the big shareholders in the 48% and buying their stakes to get towards 30% would soon entice one or more of the consortium to break ranks and sell to you.

The reality for the consortium is no one to date actually wants to use their own money (£1- 2m) to buy a football club that needs to fund a 300 - 400k shortfall....

Buying existing shares from anyone is not investing one penny in the club.

The club releasing unissued shares would be investing in the club but it would mean the cartel losing power as their 52 percent would drop

It is all about power , not the long term success of our club

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Ahem.......John that would be fair enough but I think you should disclose to potential new recruits that the money they donate isn't being used to purchase shares. Instead it's being used to give the football club soft loans to support capital projects that have the effect of propping up the selling price of the club, putting the objective of co-operative ownership even further out of reach.

you're absolutely right I didn't mention that, that and every other thing that SMiSA has done where every individuals interpretation or opinion can have a negative aspect particularly where the current shareholding of the club is concerned

I've been reading over on the match day thread v hearts how much a state the club is in through root causes such as, the boards inactions, the stale environment due to the consortium, resulting in a lack of investment, affecting quality of players etc etc

So the option is, using the dome loan example, to.....

a) NOT loan the cash, preventing a major asset for the team, reducing commercial opportunities and eliminating the facility used every day by the local community, continuing along the lines of reducing the worth of the club therefore not propping up the value of the selling price for the consortium. Basically stand by and watch the club be run down so that 'someone' can then buy it for a lot less than the £ 2 million ish currently being chased

Or

b ) provide the loan, allowing all the above points to be realised, facility for the team, commercial opportunity, community involvement etc etc. and yes, i agree it does help to keep the selling price of the consortiums share price at a higher level than the option above but surely option 'b' is the lesser of the two evils

I totally get where you're coming from and I'm not happy with the stalemate the club finds itself in, but would we all really be comfortable if everyone stopped investing in the club, eg the aforementioned loan, fans council raffles, season tickets, going to games, buying strips etc in an effort to encourage a quick exit by the consortium. It might work but whoever was to buy the consortiums shares at a lower price, might then have a club on their hands where everyone has lost any interest in investing in the club

I personally don't think it's worth the gamble

Edited by thewhiteman
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It doesn't matter how many times you tell a lie, it will never become the truth.

I had meant to post on this at the time.......I thought I wasn't part of the consortium but I must be as I received the accounts and was informed of when the AGM was. The swine on the consortium must have included my shares in the 52% without telling me!!

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