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Lennon Out


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Im gonna get ma baws toed here but a manager like di canio may be what we need. He knows the scottish league, he has plenty contacts europe wide surely. He is animated and interacts with the team, passionate albeit a bit of a fukin nutjob but he could teach the youngsters to toughen up, and install a but of fight in the team. (I think goodwin would be in death row if di canio rubs off on him tho) i actually liked what he done at sunderland with the fans and the old chin up thing. Hes not a epl manager but the type to get the most out of players with limited ability.

Shall i log off now? :(

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Just a question, but we are only 4 points away from 7th place...

What happens if we finish 7th?

Do we sack Danny despite increased earnings from improved league finish?

Are his cards marked no matter what he does? This season has the potential still to be one of our best in terms of league finish...

Just saying, it's easy to look at an argument from one side alone...

Edited by Bart Simpson
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Just a question, but we are only 4 points away from 7th place...

What happens if we finish 7th?

Do we sack Danny despite increased earnings from improved league finish?

Are his cards marked no matter what he does? This season has the potentially still to be one of our best in terms of league finish...

Just saying, it's easy to look at an argument from one side alone...

I'm as disappointed as everyone else given yesterday's lost opportunity but whilst the playoff spot is still closer than 7th, we have strengthened in my opinion in January and were not entirely at the races yesterday and beaten by a good Dundee Utd team.

Where are all of those who would gladly sacrifice a cup run for league position?

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Im gonna get ma baws toed here but a manager like di canio may be what we need. He knows the scottish league, he has plenty contacts europe wide surely. He is animated and interacts with the team, passionate albeit a bit of a fukin nutjob but he could teach the youngsters to toughen up, and install a but of fight in the team. (I think goodwin would be in death row if di canio rubs off on him tho) i actually liked what he done at sunderland with the fans and the old chin up thing. Hes not a epl manager but the type to get the most out of players with limited ability.

Shall i log off now? :(

If it's a nutcase you want , choose one of very own forum keyboard warriors :P
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This is the sort of comment that really gets under my skin. I'm not advocating we should be in the top 6 every year. Every so often would be nice, like every other team that's spent any reasonable time in the top flight. Also, it would be nice to avoid the battle for the drop almost every year. I don't believe those are unrealistic expectations given a club of our size.

For the majority of Lennon's tenure we've needed a strong centre back and some genuine width and pace. In the final window, before his contract runs out, he brings in some width but, after letting a centre back go, still hasn't addressed the most glaring need in the team.

The football at the start of his tenure was really good at times and he was to be applauded for that but in the last year we've been dire. 8 wins since the Cup Final in all competitions? That is f**king horrible whatever budget you're working to and I feel there must be someone out there who could do better and that's why his time is up IMO.

Since Danny assembled his team we haven't been involved in any relegation battles, we've been comfortable. Finishing in our highest league finish then last season winning the cup and avoiding relegation easily.

I agree 8 wins since the cup final doesn't read well but when you look at our history St mirren in the top flight tend to average around 10 wins a season so we are still on course for an above average finish. Considering we still have all the bottom 6 fixtures to play.

I don't agree with the need of a centre back, I think macausland and mcgregor are of good spl standard and with back up in Naismith and Goodwin I feel back up centre back would be a waste of money.

I'm sure I'm wasting my time regardless, I remember this forum was wanting DL sacked the season we finished 8th as people were upset there was no relegation battle and nothing to play for

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Well done Elvis, you have now demonstrated that you know nothing about betting to go along with knowing nothing about how to be positive.

To try to aid your understanding, I have a similar half-question for you;

Should St Mirren sell John McGinn?

no

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A bit like the manager's post at St.Mirren...if this thread and every other one barring the cup win are anything to go by...

Lennon is the second longest serving SP(F)L manager the fourth counting all leagues, before him MacPherson was the longest serving manager in the SPL - the current BoD has a record of backing their managers. If & when we decide to look for a new manager there will be no shaortage of candidates and maybe some whose quality will surprise us.

************************

If your point is aimed at DannySceptics like myself then I'd like to say I don't expect us to beat teams like Dundee Utd routinely, however I was extremely disappointed with 1 point from 6 against a Hearts youth team and a Partick side whose new season sparkle has long since gone.

What I do expect from a St. Mirren manager is to address problem areas like central defence in time to make a positive impact on our season and to protect young players like Kelly & Naismith who by my reckoning have had one game out since being introduced to the first team and key players like Thompson who has played all but about half an hour of our season.

My expectations of a St. Mirren manager are 10th in the league and not being put out of the cups by lower league opposition - obviously you can excuse falling short in the cups if you do better in the league and vice versa, nobody would trade seventh in the league for last seasons cup win, but Lennon has come up short in this modest criteria in each of his four seasons in charge - it will take something exceptional between now and the end of the season to earn him a new contract.

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My expectations of a St. Mirren manager are 10th in the league and not being put out of the cups by lower league opposition - obviously you can excuse falling short in the cups if you do better in the league and vice versa, nobody would trade seventh in the league for last seasons cup win, but Lennon has come up short in this modest criteria in each of his four seasons in charge - it will take something exceptional between now and the end of the season to earn him a new contract.

^^

The last two seasons were very successful by your standards then?

Edited by Simon_Towel
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Since Danny assembled his team we haven't been involved in any relegation battles, we've been comfortable. Finishing in our highest league finish then last season winning the cup and avoiding relegation easily.

I agree 8 wins since the cup final doesn't read well but when you look at our history St mirren in the top flight tend to average around 10 wins a season so we are still on course for an above average finish. Considering we still have all the bottom 6 fixtures to play.

I don't agree with the need of a centre back, I think macausland and mcgregor are of good spl standard and with back up in Naismith and Goodwin I feel back up centre back would be a waste of money.

I'm sure I'm wasting my time regardless, I remember this forum was wanting DL sacked the season we finished 8th as people were upset there was no relegation battle and nothing to play for

You were doing so well until the line about McAusland and McGregor..............

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Lennon is the second longest serving SP(F)L manager the fourth counting all leagues, before him MacPherson was the longest serving manager in the SPL - the current BoD has a record of backing their managers. If & when we decide to look for a new manager there will be no shaortage of candidates and maybe some whose quality will surprise us.

************************

If your point is aimed at DannySceptics like myself then I'd like to say I don't expect us to beat teams like Dundee Utd routinely, however I was extremely disappointed with 1 point from 6 against a Hearts youth team and a Partick side whose new season sparkle has long since gone.

What I do expect from a St. Mirren manager is to address problem areas like central defence in time to make a positive impact on our season and to protect young players like Kelly & Naismith who by my reckoning have had one game out since being introduced to the first team and key players like Thompson who has played all but about half an hour of our season.

My expectations of a St. Mirren manager are 10th in the league and not being put out of the cups by lower league opposition - obviously you can excuse falling short in the cups if you do better in the league and vice versa, nobody would trade seventh in the league for last seasons cup win, but Lennon has come up short in this modest criteria in each of his four seasons in charge - it will take something exceptional between now and the end of the season to earn him a new contract.

Simply pointing out the lack of support from certain quarters particularly on this forum, is not necessarily a great quality of our support in general.

Reasoned criticism should be encouraged but by your own criteria, he's not doing too badly (ETA: point taken about the and). My point however wasn't directed at anyone in particular personally.

Fair enough if he is out of ideas, but so many posters elude to knowing the ins and outs of everything without reference to DL's success albeit previously with Cowdenbeath, moderate league success with St.Mirren and (the elephant in the room of the) League Cup win. I accept that at times I am baffled by some decisions, but I don't work with the players on a daily basis, I don't know how they work together individually and DL has been fairly unlucky in that a stand out player in Gary Teale has been injured the majority of the season.

Edited by Bart Simpson
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My expectations of a St. Mirren manager are 10th in the league and not being put out of the cups by lower league opposition - obviously you can excuse falling short in the cups if you do better in the league and vice versa, nobody would trade seventh in the league for last seasons cup win, but Lennon has come up short in this modest criteria in each of his four seasons in charge - it will take something exceptional between now and the end of the season to earn him a new contract.

^^

The last two seasons were very successful by your standards then?

You seem to have missed the word and which I've highlighted again in red.

2011/12 was moderately successful - a good league position having to be balanced against being put out of the League Cup by a part time team.

Last season was one of the best in our history winning a major trophy, although it was alarming that the only team we finished above in the league was an underprepared Dundee.

This season we've been put out of the League Cup by a Division 1 team and without the safety net of a Hearts youth team we would be probably not be in our current lofty 9th place.

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First half we compteted very well, fought back into it after going behind. Second half we were pretty woeful, although Utd played some great stuff in the first ten minutes of the half as the went ahead again. We seemed reliant on long balls, which really pissed me off as with one up front it was a lottery. We've players who can play football, so the hoofing was depressing.

When all is said and done, I was disappointed with the result and very disappointed with second half. Some seem to want any excuse to fuel their claims that Lennon must go now! He'll be here til the end of the season, and depending on how we do from here til then, he'll either go or earn a new contract.

I hope he earns a new conract as we'll have to do extremely well for that to happen. Sadly some want to see us struggle to ensure the manager is fired, which is a bonkers way to look at things.

Take it you don't go to games then? NEW CONTRACT?

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Lennon, since the cup final, has tinkered with the team so much that even the players don't know how they're to play. Sometimes it was necessary to change, but the performance levels on the pitch leaves a lot to be desired, some good performances and mostly bad. Good players being misused is one of his failings, and another is that he doesn't see where the problem is on the pitch till ten minutes to go. Sitting in the dugout for most of the game doesn't help his cause, but he probably thinks that TC looks after that side of things, but who's the boss?

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Simply pointing out the lack of support from certain quarters particularly on this forum, is not necessarily a great quality of our support in general. Reasoned criticism should be encouraged but by your own criteria, he's not doing too badly. My point however wasn't directed at anyone in particular personally. Fair enough if he is out of ideas, but so many posters elude to knowing the ins and outs of everything without reference to DL's success albeit previously with Cowdenbeath, moderate league success with St.Mirren and (the elephant in the room of the) League Cup win. I accept that at times I am baffled by some decisions, but I don't work with the players on a daily basis, I don't know how they work together individually and DL has been fairly unlucky in that a stand out player in Gary Teale has been injured the majority of the season.

I don't know if I'd agree with that, Lennon's record with us is a bit of a mixed bag - he's fallen short of my requirements in either the league or the cups in each of his four seasons in charge.

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You seem to have missed the word and which I've highlighted again in red.

2011/12 was moderately successful - a good league position having to be balanced against being put out of the League Cup by a part time team.

Last season was one of the best in our history winning a major trophy, although it was alarming that the only team we finished above in the league was an underprepared Dundee.

This season we've been put out of the League Cup by a Division 1 team and without the safety net of a Hearts youth team we would be probably not be in our current lofty 9th place.

Thank you for highlighting the word and in red, however I did read your full post and took note of the word and

I was referring to the next line

obviously you can excuse falling short in the cups if you do better in the league and vice versa

So by your standard finishing 8th was a successful season and winning the cup was a successful season.

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I don't know if I'd agree with that, Lennon's record with us is a bit of a mixed bag - he's fallen short of my requirements in either the league or the cups in each of his four seasons in charge.

Fair enough (see above edit and above post) but I do take issue with the suggestion that league progress would not readily be swapped for cup success.

I completely agree with you in that I wouldn't swap these two unless it meant winning the league, but plenty others voiced that opinion in the aftermath of the League Cup win.

I less and less ardently feel bothered making the case for DL and TC, but I think there is more going on than meets the eye. I think they have been on a hiding to nothing for a long time and whilst it is only natural to aspire to success I fear there are a lot of unrealistic vocal Saints fans particularly on this forum. It is only my opinion, but I have followed our club through the depths we all of a certain vintage have over the majority of the past 3 decades (27 years for me). Yes 1st Division success (x2) was great and not to be belittled at all, as was the Challenge Cup success, but out with this and our current run in the top flight the rest was comparatively less enjoyable.

We are doing not too badly and are downsizing in terms of budget as far as I can see. Not bad all things considered. However if time is up fair enough. Giving a manager the January transfer window and then sacking him seems shortsighted to me though. Very different to Aberdeen where it was a step sideways for Craig Brown. DL will rightly feel hard done by after delivering cup win and league safety including highest league finish for in excess of 27 years.

Edited by Bart Simpson
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