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Some 40 per cent of season ticket holders don t live in Paisley

I would think that most of them are probably, like me, born and bred in Paisley but adult life has meant a move to the local environs. I haven't lived in Paisley for over thirty years but I've always been about 30 minutes drive away. It never leaves you, you know?

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If it is true that 40% of season ticket holders live outside of the town, is that not quite a sad reflection on the way the club works within the local community? I know it's not an unusual dynamic. Many people move away from the area they grew up in but you would think that locals would feel some kind of affinity with the club.

I know it's a different level of football completely but I had a conversation with the club secretary at Wishaw Juniors about a year ago where he talked about his lament about his clubs links within the local area. He felt that because of the way the club acted in the past with community groups people in the town had lost that affinity and he was really struggling to gain traction to get the locals back on side and the net effect was that it was now costing them in sponsorship and advertising revenue as well as in terms of supporter numbers. He felt it was a shame because he thought the committee there had done great work in getting the club their own venue etc.

I think Slash summed up the situation quite well with regards the business side of the club. The consortium just aren't interested in trying to develop it and I think that's been their failing. It's true that they have a formula that breaks even, more or less, every year and it's true that they are particularly risk adverse but surely it's clear to everyone that the waste lies in the fact that the football stadium is used more like a cathedral than a football stadium with the majority of it's business done one day every fortnight - from Autumn to Spring.

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It is entirely feasible that information has been shared at an AGM.

The club has a database of ST holders, shareholders and many customers who have shared their details.

It's hardly breaching the data protection act providing a rough estimate, but I'd say it is probably fair to say that 40% live outside of Paisley.

Either that or waldorf34 is a mass stalker and has followed people home.....

When I returned from the recent Dundee United cup game I did notice some guy hanging about out very selective area but I assumed he was a gypsy? whistling.gif

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If it is true that 40% of season ticket holders live outside of the town, is that not quite a sad reflection on the way the club works within the local community? I know it's not an unusual dynamic. Many people move away from the area they grew up in but you would think that locals would feel some kind of affinity with the club.

I know it's a different level of football completely but I had a conversation with the club secretary at Wishaw Juniors about a year ago where he talked about his lament about his clubs links within the local area. He felt that because of the way the club acted in the past with community groups people in the town had lost that affinity and he was really struggling to gain traction to get the locals back on side and the net effect was that it was now costing them in sponsorship and advertising revenue as well as in terms of supporter numbers. He felt it was a shame because he thought the committee there had done great work in getting the club their own venue etc.

I think Slash summed up the situation quite well with regards the business side of the club. The consortium just aren't interested in trying to develop it and I think that's been their failing. It's true that they have a formula that breaks even, more or less, every year and it's true that they are particularly risk adverse but surely it's clear to everyone that the waste lies in the fact that the football stadium is used more like a cathedral than a football stadium with the majority of it's business done one day every fortnight - from Autumn to Spring.

Let's be frank here, Stuart, you will endeavor to spin just about any feature of the club into a negative.

The fact that so many people who have either moved away from the Paisley/Renfrewshire area or always lived elsewhere continue to commit to the club is a good thing, no? A willingness to travel from out with the area, with the additional time and financial investment demonstrates considerable loyalty, and this reflects well on the club, does it not?

Edited by Drew
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Let's be frank here, Stuart, you will endeavor to spin just about any feature of the club into a negative.

The fact that so many people who have either moved away from the Paisley/Renfrewshire area or always lived elsewhere continue to commit to the club is a good thing, no? A willingness to travel from out with the area, with the additional time and financial investment demonstrates considerable loyalty, and this reflects well on the club, does it not?

He did however raise a fair point in relation to bringing up what Slash said about developing the club. A lot of things don't need large amounts of money either, to be good workable, and profitable ideas. We should know from our experience. Still stuns me that on approaching the club about doing the book the club themselves had no plans to do anything to mark the passing of Love Street. I contacted them absolutely expecting to be told that they were already working on a shedload of money making ideas - books, prints, DVDs whatever. Nope - zilch, zero. It was fans who did things. If that had been Aberdeen moving from Pittodrie, or Hearts moving from Tynecastle, there would have been all sorts done by the club.

I know we don't have huge manpower levels or a big team of staff to attack things, but even when the four of us did the book, only two people actually asked to see what we had written before going to print. Gordon Scott and Chick Young. No-one else even gave it a cursory glance. We could have written anything in there, especially about fractious OF games for example. I remember captioning a Nakamura photo 'Japanese international playmaker' or something, when I really wanted to say 'diving wee basturt'. We aren't the kind of people to have courted controversy, but no-one even asked what we were writing except as I say two people who showed a keen interest.

It's the same as my signature text - REA saw that the panels were an easily workable idea to brighten up the breezeblock, but with him away, two new inductees will be shortly heading towards a year without anyone seemingly interested in updating the collection.

I find it frustrating that there is such inactivity on wee things like that, or a missing stadium letter taking a year to fix - and only after fans started e-mailing the club, that it makes me wonder how more important stuff gets done.

Ach, rant over! Kettle on, chocolate hob nob!

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imo the club (BoD) who are obviously focussed on the short term aim of finding a buyer seem to now operate in a silo, at times oblivious to what could be done. perhaps in that we now expect too much from them?

They are neither getting any younger or willing/able to invest or raise investement into the club... Things the support might expect to happen as an obvious opportunity appears to them (BoD) either beyond their capability or inclination. I don't for one minute mean that in a bad way, they pony-ied up the dough when it was sorely needed, and guided us through stormy waters.

Taking a lead from the 'Time to revive community ownership thread'..... here's a curve ball..!

What if..? The BoD nominated proxy BoD members to stand in for them until such time as they had sold their shares, or put down a three-year plan?

Think on... if 3-5 people were nominated by the BoD and seconded by the support to become an interim BoD comprising of switched on fans with the time, inclination and drive to succeed. Would that not be a better situation than this seemingly endless limbo of 'The Club Is up for Sale'..?

They would of course have to pass a BAWA sausage roll thieving bastard personality test!

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My bad, forgot about your 1921 cup win, will edit tomorrow.

I would say if we took the average home gates from both clubs this century you'd see the degree of difference in size between the clubs. After a quick glance at average attendances for last few years it won't surprise you to learn I've yet to find one where Thistle come close to St Mirren.

Take last seasons league campaigns for example. You had a largely competitive title winning campaign which will always bring out the crowds and an astounding 8875 home gate against Morton. Just another season in 11th for us, our largest gate being 6200 odd. Due to Dundee being cut off we really had nothing to play for most of the season.

Despite these mitigating factors in Thistles favour, we still had a higher average gate than you.

And I was at the Thistle v Morton game, so don't count me in the numbers.

At the time I turned to my Partick supporting next door neighbour who I accompanied and said "I don't see anything here to worry us next year". Hopefully, I will not be eating my words come May.

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He did however raise a fair point in relation to bringing up what Slash said about developing the club. A lot of things don't need large amounts of money either, to be good workable, and profitable ideas. We should know from our experience. Still stuns me that on approaching the club about doing the book the club themselves had no plans to do anything to mark the passing of Love Street. I contacted them absolutely expecting to be told that they were already working on a shedload of money making ideas - books, prints, DVDs whatever. Nope - zilch, zero. It was fans who did things. If that had been Aberdeen moving from Pittodrie, or Hearts moving from Tynecastle, there would have been all sorts done by the club.

I know we don't have huge manpower levels or a big team of staff to attack things, but even when the four of us did the book, only two people actually asked to see what we had written before going to print. Gordon Scott and Chick Young. No-one else even gave it a cursory glance. We could have written anything in there, especially about fractious OF games for example. I remember captioning a Nakamura photo 'Japanese international playmaker' or something, when I really wanted to say 'diving wee basturt'. We aren't the kind of people to have courted controversy, but no-one even asked what we were writing except as I say two people who showed a keen interest.

It's the same as my signature text - REA saw that the panels were an easily workable idea to brighten up the breezeblock, but with him away, two new inductees will be shortly heading towards a year without anyone seemingly interested in updating the collection.

I find it frustrating that there is such inactivity on wee things like that, or a missing stadium letter taking a year to fix - and only after fans started e-mailing the club, that it makes me wonder how more important stuff gets done.

Ach, rant over! Kettle on, chocolate hob nob!

Absolutely, Paul, I couldn't agree more on these points.

When I collected the books from the printers and took a few down to the stadium to have them signed for the prize draw, the directors who were about showed no interest whatsoever. Indeed, a certain high office bearer was distinctly irritated by my presence, as opposed to interested in why I was there, and having a look at the book. He (very) reluctantly signed the book, but it was like pulling teeth.

In contrast, the players were spot on. They couldn't have been more helpful and showed a keen interest in the book - despite the fact that most of them couldn't have had a deep affinity with the club or our spiritual home. Mark Howard was great, and Craig Dargo took a genuine interest, while John Potter actually took the time to look through the book and comment on it in very complimentary terms. He was a real gent, as were his team-mates who happened to be about. Even Gus seemed more forthcoming despite his (sometimes a bit unfair) reputation.

Aye, there is certainly a mentality in some quarters that smacks of complacence and, at times, indifference. Time for some fresh impetus, that's for sure.

Edited by Drew
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Absolutely, Paul, I couldn't agree more on these points.

When I collected the books from the printers and took a few down to the stadium to have them signed for the prize draw, the directors who were about showed no interest whatsoever. Indeed, a certain high office bearer was distinctly irritated by my presence, as opposed to interested in why I was there, and having a look at the book. He (very) reluctantly signed the book, but it was like pulling teeth.

In contrast, the players were spot on. They couldn't have been more helpful and showed a keen interest in the book - despite the fact that most of them couldn't have had a deep affinity with the club or our spiritual home. Mark Howard was great, and Craig Dargo took a genuine interest, while John Potter actually took the time to look through the book and comment on it in very complimentary terms. He was a real gent, as were his team-mates who happened to be about. Even Gus seemed more forthcoming despite his (sometimes a bit unfair) reputation.

Aye, there is certainly a mentality in some quarters that smacks of complacence and, at times, indifference. Time for some fresh impetus, that's for sure.

John Potter was top class for his contribution. He asked for a day or two to get some thoughts together and then phoned me to give his story. All the players were top drawer - even when we photographed the allegedly difficult Will Haining, and he wasn't playIng, and couldn't sit under his own jersey, he took part in good spirit.

Big Yogi and Steve Clarke were absolute gents and were right into it. Fitzy was the same, referee Willie Young was well up for it too. Christopher Brookmyre took a lot of care in crafting his contribution. Everyone was brilliant with us.

The 'celebrities' who said they'd contribute, then didn't, leaving us close to the print deadline, or the 'celebrity' who wanted to know if he would be getting paid for his stories.... Shall forever remain nameless and our scorn heaped upon them for ever more!

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I can only imagine how much time and effort went into that book.

Well done to all concerned. It is a gem of a publication for Saints fans, and will be a terrific journal for future generations to look back on.

Have you considered making it available as an online eBook via Amazon as I'd certainly love a digital copy as I must admit to trying to keep the book in pristine condition and therefore it has not been read often enough.

Did the celebrity who wanted paid for his stories get them included or did you just say "feck um!".....for some reason my gut feel is that might have been Chick Young.

When you talk about John Potter and contributions, I keep visualising pumpkins...he may not have been the greatest footballer we ever had, but he was approachable like most of the players and was very popular in the dressing room.

I'm sure when John Potter looks back on his career his best times will have been with our club. Same goes for players like Mehmet, Maxi, Vanzy and many from that era.

St Mirren is a great club with fantastic achievements down the years.....in many ways I'm comfortable with the size of our support and our success on the pitch as it gives us all an opportunity to be as involved in some capacity with the club no matter who you are, as the door is always open.

How many fans of city teams like Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts, Celtic and Rangers know everyone from the chairman and BoD to the office staff, the manager to the groundsman, the chief executive to the commercial manager, the DJ to the official photographer, the HoF graphic geezer to the Web gurus, SMiSA to Fans council, bus conveners to the community coaches.

Not many I'd imagine. All these people I've listed many of us know and speak to on a regular basis.

That to me sums up what St Mirren is about and hopefully will continue to maintain moving forward.

No, the celebrity who asked if they'd get paid wasn't included, and shall remain nameless as far as I'm concerned. Maybe they get asked to do stuff all the time - by bigger concerns than four muppet St Mirren fans, and asking for payment is the norm'.

About six months ago I spoke to Div about doing a 'Final Chapter' website, kind of like the 'Apollo Memories' website that preserves photos and tales of the old Glasgow Apollo. I haven't been able to do anything with it due to family reasons, but will hopefully look at it again in six months time.

The workload involved in doing the book wasn't too great TBH. Not a patch on the 125th anniversary book which required historical research and a lot of heartache. Ours was a rolling project, from one home game to the next. A template for each home match was set up early on, and we just kept adding to it as the weeks went by. Doing the 'celebrity' pages was the hardest part.

It did the job we set out to do - to record the old ground and the rise of the new one for future generations to look back on. There's a pristine copy held by the Scottish Football Museum at Hampden, which is signed on the front cover by SG, John Potter, Gus and Andy, so it was the club chairman, manager, assistant manager, and club captain at the time of the move. Might be worth a few bob when I'm long gone!

Minor regrets are the somewhat unimaginative photos for the first two games - at that point we were working with the understanding that the club had only sanctioned what would be in effect a glorified match programme, same size and print quality, just thicker with more pages and no celebrity input. Then AWP saw the initial six pages or so and was excited about the prospect of making it into something more substantial, and the whole outlook changed to doing a full-on book. Too late to go back to the already-played first two games though! No big deal really, that's just the way it went.

Six wee typos, four very minor, no-one picked up on them, not bad for amateurs. Seems a long time ago now... Five years in fact!

Edited by pozbaird
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Let's be frank here, Stuart, you will endeavor to spin just about any feature of the club into a negative.

The fact that so many people who have either moved away from the Paisley/Renfrewshire area or always lived elsewhere continue to commit to the club is a good thing, no? A willingness to travel from out with the area, with the additional time and financial investment demonstrates considerable loyalty, and this reflects well on the club, does it not?

Drew - I'm trying to make a genuine point and I don't think I'm spinning.

If we take my personal situation - I was a first generation St Mirren fan from 1978 to 2002. My Dad was a Clyde fan, my Grandfather a huge Queens Park fan. I could have followed either one of them, but as an 8 year old I chose for myself to support St Mirren on the basis that I had been born in Paisley and that St Mirren were my local club - or at least I believed that at the time. (Pre Google Maps it certainly felt like the walk to Love Street was shorter than the walk to Ibrox but according to Google Maps now Rangers were actually my local club by some 0.1miles).

Now reflect that forward. If St Mirren fans do like my parents did and move away from their favourite club, what happens to St Mirren if their children do like I do and opt to support their local team and the club hasn't been successful in attracting new first generation fans from the local town?

Edited by Stuart Dickson
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I can't get my head around why anyone would support a team for a number of years and then support another team. Just don't get it . Were you bitten by a Saints dug when you were young ?

I've always been a Sunderland fan so I guess I do support another team, but I supported Sunderland long before I supported St Mirren. It's actually quite common to stop supporting a team though. There's loads of people out there who claim to support a team who barely have any interest in how the team is doing never mind watching them

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I've always been a Sunderland fan so I guess I do support another team, but I supported Sunderland long before I supported St Mirren. It's actually quite common to stop supporting a team though. There's loads of people out there who claim to support a team who barely have any interest in how the team is doing never mind watching them

2 posts above this you said 'as an 8 year old you chose for yourself to support St Mirren'

In this post you said you 'supported Sunderland long before you supported St Mirren'

Just wondered , at what age did you support Sunderland from ?

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2 posts above this you said 'as an 8 year old you chose for yourself to support St Mirren'

In this post you said you 'supported Sunderland long before you supported St Mirren'

Just wondered , at what age did you support Sunderland from ?

3 years old. Stupid reason really but they had a player called Dennis Tueart and I just liked his surname. Then I saw TV footage of the 1973 Cup Final and Tueart twisting and turning down the wings and I was hooked.

I can remember sitting watching the big Cup Finals at Hampden on TV as a real youngster too. If it was an Old Firm one my Dads family had a lot of Rangers fans in it so I'd support Celtic just to be different. I went to my first live game in 1977 - Glasgow Select v The Football League for the Queens Jubilee, Dennis Tueart was playing and my second game was the England v Scotland 1977 match at Wembley where Tueart was a sub. I went to a number of Clyde and Queens Park matches and toyed with the idea of supporting Hearts and Aberdeen before finally deciding on St Mirren when I found out they came from Paisley. It might not have stuck either but that week my Dad had a financial advisor in discussing mortgages and he got me a signed poster. He had some sort of link to Donnie McDowell who organised getting it for me. A few weeks later I was at Love Street watching Jimmy Bone play his home debut against Partick Thistle at Love Street. It was a shite game - finished 1-1. Ally Hunter had given away a penalty which Partick scored - I think it was Higgins that scored it - and St Mirren equalised with a tap in - I think it was Bone who scored.

Anyway that's well off topic.

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I can't get my head around why anyone would support a team for a number of years and then support another team. Just don't get it . Were you bitten by a Saints dug when you were young ?

Off topic. While most of us probably have our team chosen for us, it's definitely possible to make your own choice, even as an adult, though that's almost certainly rarer. I didn't know until late in his life that my Dad had grown up a Rangers fan but got sick of the bigotry and bile and switched to Saints in the early 70s and stuck with them to the end. He said he was far from alone at that time. I know a couple of much younger guys, one who's on here from time to time but not SD who did the same thing much more recently.

Anyway, we're not a big club, but so what? On the other hand, if you apply a population-adjusted comparator with Engerland, our relative crowds are very respectable and put us on a par with e.g. Liverpool.

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Ally Hunter was shite and didnae give waves unlike the Legend that was Donald.

But Ally wisnae as shite as Jim Gilmour.

He didnae give waves either although i doubt if he was requested to. bye1.gif

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Off topic. While most of us probably have our team chosen for us, it's definitely possible to make your own choice, even as an adult, though that's almost certainly rarer. I didn't know until late in his life that my Dad had grown up a Rangers fan but got sick of the bigotry and bile and switched to Saints in the early 70s and stuck with them to the end. He said he was far from alone at that time. I know a couple of much younger guys, one who's on here from time to time but not SD who did the same thing much more recently.

I actually did the same thing as your dad but much earlier in my life. Im 28 now but up until the age of about 13-14 basically through school i was a rangers fan or they were my chosen team. Possibly down to the fact my stepdad supported them. I was never pushed into it at all but if im honest probably attracted to the glory and things of that era. It wasnt until about 14 years of age i started coming regularly to stmirren though i had been a lot prior with my uncle who a lot of you will know as northendsaint on here. When i was old enough to know football and what mattered i followed my home club and will continue to do so.

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Not being from Paisley, I was in danger of going to the dark side but the 99/00 season title winning season fell when i was about 8 and hooked me for life punk.gif .

I have dozens of cousins and aunts/uncles from Paisley though and there is only myself, my dad, 1 uncle and 2 cousins who are saints fans. The rest all support either half of the Old Firm, but I think that is just the nature of football in Scotland and always will be as long as the OF dominate. It would be nice to live in a place like Newcastle, Swansea, Cardiff etc where everyone supports the one team but I wouldn't swap supporting a 'wee' team for anything thumbup2.gif .

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The reality is we are a club with a hardcore support of 3000 , success over the next few years will getting this figure to 4000 , I do believe a Saints take an exceptional away support in relation to our relatively low average home crowd . Like a lot of others I believe we can increase the size of our home support , but we need to have a few quality signings and a bit of enthusism for the club for this to happen .Hopefully a change in ownership will bring that. The current B of D , have done exceptional job , but time moves on , and maybe its now time for fresh ideas and fresh enthusiasm

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As the old saying goes, size doesn't matter it's what you do with it that counts! Cough cough. For a club that struggles to attract crowds of more than 4000 to remain in the top flight and win trophies is nothing short of a miracle. For me there has always been a feeling of being nearly a very successful club. Perhaps that's in our clubs DNA, who knows. As for marketing the club I do my bit down here and do everything I can to encourage people to go to a game if they are visiting scotland. I have no idea what the club does to attract people to games but winning games generally helps a little. Some of us will remember the days we played in Europe and called ourselves Paisley St Mirren purposely to embellish our identity and increase local pride in the team. I'm not a Paisley boy but it's funny how that has stuck in my memory so it worked for me ( I was already well converted by then anyway). One town, one team really appealed to me but did it bring more people in? On a visit to Paisley i found the atmosphere in the town very flat indeed, as if there was an air of despondency. If that's the case then motivating people to go to games at current prices when things are tight is going to be challenging. Just had a thought, I know it's not that far to walk but how about using the minibus as a courtesy bus from say gilmour street to the ground with a saints flag sticking out the top? Two or three trips and that an extra 40 odd on to the crowd. Not much I know, but it's a start.

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