Jump to content

Danny Lennon - 4 Season League & Cup Report Card


Recommended Posts

Edit: 12th May 2014 - The Stats below have been updated on Post #24 of this thread to reflect End of Season figures.

Most will have read on the BBC Sports website / general online media today 'St Mirren manager Danny Lennon insists he has "held up his end of the bargain" ahead of a board meeting at which his future will be decided'. Thought it was worth putting some meat on the bones with regard to this statement to allow us all to have a more informed opinion. Moreover, I think we can all agree that we could debate the transfer dealings, team selections, tactics, substitutions etc. all day long. The issue is that such parameters are largely intangible and subjective. Hopefully of more practical use is a one stop shop of our teams League and Cup statistics under the Management of DL.....

League
Position Points Won Drawn Lost Goal Diff Win %
2010/2011 11th 33 8 9 21 -24 21.1%
2011/2012 8th 43 9 16 13 -12 23.7%
2012/2013* 11th 41 9 14 15 -13 23.7%
2013/2014** 8th 38 10 8 19 -19 27.0%

* No Rangers
** No Rangers / Hearts deducted 15 points / 1 game still to play

League Cup Round 1, Round 2 (Premiership Sides Enter), Round 3, Quarter-Finals, Semi-Finals, Final

2010/2011 Lost Round 2: Round 2 lost to Ross County away on penalties
2011/2012 Lost Quarter Finals: Round 2 beat Morton away, Round 3 beat St Johnstone away, Lost QF to Ayr United in Paisley
2012/2013 Win!: R2 beat Ayr away, R3 beat Hamilton in Paisley, QF beat Aberdeen away on penalties, SF beat Celtic at Hampden, Final beat Hearts at Hampden
2013/2014 Lost Round 2: Round 2 lost to Queen of the South away

Scottish Cup Round 1, Round 2, Round 3, Round 4 (Premiership Sides Enter), Round 5, Quarter-Finals, Semi-Finals, Final

2010/2011 Lost Quarter-Finals: Round 4 beat Peterhead after replay away, Round 5 beat Ayr Away, Lost Quarter-Finals to Aberdeen away
2011/2012 Lost Quarter-Finals: Round 4 beat Hamilton after replay away, Round 5 beat Ross County after replay Away, Lost QF to Hearts in Paisley
2012/2013 Lost Quarter-Finals: Round 4 beat Brechin in Paisley, Round 5 beat St Johnstone in Paisley, Lost QF to Celtic in Paisley
2013/2014 Lost Round 5: Round 4 beat Queen of the South after Replay in Paisley, Lost Round 5 to Dundee United away

Edited by Wrong Planet
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Good stats WP, but I don't think those will be the focal point of any meeting held by the BoD to decide on DL's future at St Mirren.

Those 4 seasons have seen some terrific individual results, top league survival and a national trophy on the plus side.

On the negative side, too many expensive turkeys signed, too many awful team performances, too many late goals conceded, and disappointment that we have been under-performing compared to teams like Ross County, ICT, St Johnstone. Basically too many gloomy Saturday nights with that sick feeling in the stomach.

I think he's gone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good stats WP, but I don't think those will be the focal point of any meeting held by the BoD to decide on DL's future at St Mirren.

Those 4 seasons have seen some terrific individual results, top league survival and a national trophy on the plus side.

On the negative side, too many expensive turkeys signed, too many awful team performances, too many late goals conceded, and disappointment that we have been under-performing compared to teams like Ross County, ICT, St Johnstone. Basically too many gloomy Saturday nights with that sick feeling in the stomach.

I think he's gone.

in regards to the late goals conceded. i would argue that it has improved dramatically when you think back to when he took over. And would also say we have started scoring late goals. but the rest i agree with. sorry to see him go a genuinly nice guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand the 'who else are we going to get' and 'what more do you expect from a team of our size' arguments but wouldn't it be nice if we could squeeze into the top 6 every now and then? After 8 attempts we don't seem anywhere closer to that. Is it too much to ask that we could match what teams like Livingston, Ross County, ICT, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone have all done?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Danny is s really nice guy. I have been in his company a few times. So what will be will be. What I will say we will be a huge attraction in the event of s vacancy fairly decent budget great stadium and one of few clubs to have their own training facilities. I know Stewart well and in my opinion he should have declined the beeb interview last night especially prior to the match.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2010/2011

The infamous summer of Beath. Danny comes straight from the 2nd Division and seems to believe the players who done a job for him there will do a job for him in the big league.

Not surprisingly, the result is a disgrace of a campaign and failure in both cups. A combination of Michael Higdon and a terrible Hamilton side somehow keep us above 12th.

2011/12

Danny seemed to have learned his lesson in the transfer market, and recruits some top players. Thompson, Carey, Teale, Hasselbaink, Tesselaar all arrive and succeed to some degree, McLean comes onto the scene.

However, the team continues to underachieve. We can't get near the top 6, much less in it, and we flop at home to Ayr United in the League Cup.

12/13

We regress alarmingly in the league, going from 8th and comfortable the season before to 11th and nervous. The attention from this is diverted by 5 games and a glorious cup win.

The glory and performance levels in the cups goes further to highlight the infuriating lack of consistency the team is displaying. 1 week we are losing 4-1 at home to Ross County, the next we are beating Celtic at Hampden.

13/14

Danny's cup win grants him a stay of execution and one last chance at taking the club forward. He fails. A complete mess of a summer transfer window sees us lose 5 of our first 6 games and crash out the league cup to lower league opponents. He goes someway to rectify his mistakes in January, punting all but one of his summer duds out the door, at the clubs expense. Not surprisingly results improve.

For the fourth season running we are nowhere near the top 6, and spend most of the campaign in or around 11th. Thankfully we turn it around in 5 crucial end of season games and secure our safety for another season.

However, our captain regards it as yet another season of underachievement.

My conclusion is that, apart from the Cup win, Danny's reign has been a failure. We are regressing not progressing. I really can't see how any Buddie thinks he has a case for a new contract.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great stats - be interesting to see the league stats in comparison to Inverness and St Johnstone - two teams we all feel we should be doing better than, but don't seem to.

One quick stat that is quite interesting Slash, at least in terms of our aspirations to break the elusive "Top 6", is the delta between our points total and the team finishing 6th. Rather depressingly the gap has increased this season.
Season Position Points Won Drawn Lost Goal Diff Win% Draw% Lose% Points Gap to 6th
2010/2011 11th 33 8 9 21 -24 21.1% 23.7% 55.3% 16
2011/2012 8th 43 9 16 13 -12 23.7% 42.1% 34.2% 7
2012/2013* 11th 41 9 14 15 -13 23.7% 36.8% 39.5% 6
2013/2014** 8th 38 10 8 19 -19 27.0% 21.6% 51.4% 15
* No Rangers
** No Rangers / Hearts deducted 15 points / 1 game to go
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This (reasonable when we see who else achieves it) aspiration of finishing in the Top Six may well be the final nail (already a shoogly one!) for DL. As it will be all those who follow on in his steps.

It's the old... “It's not the despair. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand" syndrome.

Fans expect too much. (Me included - hence William Hill thriving.... :( )

I'm in complete agreement with Mid Calder's comments above.

(Despite never having met either DL or SG)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We would probably all be bored out of our nuts with top 6 mediocrity.

I'm sure that was tongue in cheak Slash :) . For me achieving top 6 is the gateway to kicking on that wee bit more season after season. Today our sights are reasonably on top 6, tomorrow, could be on sneaking a European place? Why not, we did it in the 80's. We need to aspire and we need to see progress. I'm not getting too caught up on whether we ultimately finish 7th or 10th, I think it is more of a benchmark to see how close we got to becoming a top 6 club, with the financial and fixture benefits that this would bring. Sadly this season sees the gap widening.
Bluto makes a good point.... 'reasonable when we see who else achieves it'. Indeed, why should we be getting eclipsed by the likes of St J and ICT?
It is easy to get caught up in stats, though as you can probably tell I like them as solid indicators of the health of any business. But leaving them to one side, what I'm really struggling with is the fact that the Premiership is currently without Rangers, and effectively without Hearts due to their -15. The average opinion among our fans would, I think, be that both those sides would 'normally' (I know, what's normal these days?) finish above us in the league. I don't think we can get away from this when looking at the / any managers performance.
Dipping back in to the stats, we have still lost over half of our games this season, and St Johnstone in 6th position are the equivalent of a full 5 wins (or 15 draws!) above us. Given the Rangers and Hearts situation, I'm struggling with this.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand the 'who else are we going to get' and 'what more do you expect from a team of our size' arguments but wouldn't it be nice if we could squeeze into the top 6 every now and then? After 8 attempts we don't seem anywhere closer to that. Is it too much to ask that we could match what teams like Livingston, Ross County, ICT, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone have all done?

There's more chance of a new manager taking us down than there is of him taking us into the top 6. That's me guessing our new manager won't be a proven, experienced manager with a track record to point to him getting more out of teams who've previously struggled.

Whoever is the manager next season, I'll still be there, and I'll give him my support, as part of the team.

Edited by Soctty
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Danny is s really nice guy. I have been in his company a few times. So what will be will be. What I will say we will be a huge attraction in the event of s vacancy fairly decent budget great stadium and one of few clubs to have their own training facilities. I know Stewart well and in my opinion he should have declined the beeb interview last night especially prior to the match.

But have you ever talked to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pod. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having ambition providing of course you live within your means. This of course means good housekeeping which our present board excel at. But come on we are better supported than Inverness or the other saints. Paisley is much bigger than motherwell so nothing wrong for aiming for top six. I wish you would stop your continuous rebellion of fellow buds with different opinions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Lennon definitely isn't the finished article. Admittedly, some of the performances under his management have been the best and possibly the worst I've ever seen. However, no manager is perfect and I think he's given some of the brightest youngsters in Scottish football their chance to shine and delivered a glorious cup win. I'm also buzzing each transfer window to find out who we are going to sign. This alone makes him the most exiting saints manager I've known (I'm 33) and worth another 2 year contract IMHO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see what the great fixation with the Top 6 is, other than you are guaranteed to be safe from relegation or the play off. In the running to win a European spot? Most Scotiish clubs get papped out of Europe at the first time of asking. Another bumper crowd against an OF team? Those games are live on TV and don't attract a much bigger attendance than regular SPL games.

Motherwell may not be a bigger town than Paisley but they get bigger crowds and in the recent past were bankrolled by a wealthy owner with money to burn and have also had the benefit of years of higher prizemoney than us. ICT and St Johnstone are enjoying a wee moment in the sun, a few years in the top 6 and possibly their highest league placing in their history... who knows how long that run will last.

If we finish 7th or 8th then my guess is that isn't a million miles off what you would expect as reasonable given the size of our attendances and income and budget for players.

While we may be disappointed to finish below 'smaller' clubs like ICT and St Johnstone, we have finished ahead of 'bigger' clubs like Hearts, Hibs, Kilmarnock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those of us who have lived through the horrors of the late 60s and most of the 70s, this present period in our history is actually pretty good. DL has achieved what few others have in out long history, a cup win! I am pretty optimistic about the next few years, as at last the youth system is bearing fruit. I hope Danny Lennon is given more time to see these youngsters progress. When was the last time that SMFC had players that will actually earn us a transfer fee?

Edited by cambiebud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there's more to it than just the performance of the manager. I would also bring into question the ambition of the current board.

Are they content to simply exist in the lower half of the league, surviving a flirtation with being relegated every year?

Of the signing debacle pre-season (and also pretty much in the January window) how supportive were they to the manager, and is that partly to blame for us struggling to bring in any players of a decent quality?

Why, when the season was lurching from bad to worse, was the silence from the boardroom deafening? Yet, as soon as we're safe, there are interviews being done where the manager's contract is discussed?

Was that an appropriate time to do that? And why even mention it? There was no need to tell the media when a board meeting was taking place and what would be discussed at it. Especially when no decision was ultimately made!!

As much as I'm not convinced DL is good enough to take us any further, which is a shame as he won us a trophy, I worry that we will take a gamble in replacing him, because of the lack of ambition I feel would be shown at board level. Both in terms of the quality of manager we'd be willing to invest in, and the support he (or she...!) would be given financially to build a decent team.

And I'm not talking about going crazy with money, I'm talking about giving the manager a bit of support. And not only financially.

As I said, there was hardly a sign of any boardroom interaction with the media this season. No surprise that, when we win a trophy, there are tearful live interviews being done on TV. Yet, bring on a poor season with the fans showing disgruntlement and unrest...? Silence. No support for the manager from the board, and no decision to terminate him from his position.

Then, we're safe? Interviews being rolled out again, and DL's job being talked about in interviews with the media, rather than keeping it all within the club. A poor show.

If I was DL I'd beat them to it, and resign straight after the Hearts game, and walk away with my head held high.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name="Wilbur" post="

On the negative side, too many expensive turkeys signed, too many awful team performances, too many late goals conceded, and disappointment that we have been under-performing compared to teams like Ross County, ICT, St Johnstone. Basically too many gloomy Saturday nights with that sick feeling in the stomach.

This here, pretty much sums up all my thoughts in a concise way.

Too many gloomy nights - time for a change at the helm, in my opinion.

Edited by Lizard King
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many expensive turkeys did DL sign exactly? This season the only signings that came with any level of expectation were Harkins, Graingers, and Djemba Djemba and even there I think lots of fans thought there was an element of risk with each of them.

I think we paid a fee to Bolton for Mooy, and paid £40k for Imrie and neither of those signings worked out well. The main area of acrimony has surrounded older higher earners being moved on: Gallacher, Dargo, Potter, Murray and Mair all left with a fair amount of acrimony behind the scenes supposedly but I think on balance DL got most of those calls spot on.

Most of DL's so called turkeys have been younger, lower league punts and loan deals / short term contracts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Final numbers, for nothing more than completeness / accuracy of the topic title.....
League
Season Position Points Won Drawn Lost Goal Diff Win% Draw% Lose% Points Gap to 6th
2010/2011 11th 33 8 9 21 -24 21.1% 23.7% 55.3% 16
2011/2012 8th 43 9 16 13 -12 23.7% 42.1% 34.2% 7
2012/2013* 11th 41 9 14 15 -13 23.7% 36.8% 39.5% 6
2013/2014** 8th 39 10 9 19 -19 26.3% 23.7% 50.0% 14
* No Rangers
** No Rangers / Hearts deducted 15 points

League Cup R1, R2 (Premiership Sides Enter), R3, Quarter-Finals, Semi-Finals, Final

2010/2011 Lost R2: R2 lost to Ross County away on pens
2011/2012 Lost QF: R2 bt Morton away, R3 bt St Johnstone away, Lost QF to Ayr United in Paisley
2012/2013 Win!: R2 bt Ayr away, R3 bt Hamilton in Paisley, QF bt Aberdeen away on pens, SF bt Celtic Hampden, F bt Hearts Hampden
2013/2014 Lost R2: R2 lost to Queen of the South away

Scottish Cup R1, R2, R3, R4 (Premiership Sides Enter), R5, Quarter-Finals, Semi-Finals, Final

2010/2011 Lost Quarter-Finals: R4 bt Peterhead after replay away, R5 bt Ayr away, Lost QF to Aberdeen away
2011/2012 Lost Quarter-Finals: R4 bt Hamilton after replay away, R5 bt Ross County after replay away, Lost QF to Hearts in Paisley
2012/2013 Lost Quarter-Finals: R4 bt Brechin in Paisley, R5 bt St Johnstone in Paisley, Lost QF to Celtic in Paisley
2013/2014 Lost R5: R4 bt Queen of the South after Replay in Paisley, Lost R5 to Dundee United away

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many expensive turkeys did DL sign exactly? This season the only signings that came with any level of expectation were Harkins, Graingers, and Djemba Djemba and even there I think lots of fans thought there was an element of risk with each of them.

I think we paid a fee to Bolton for Mooy, and paid £40k for Imrie and neither of those signings worked out well. The main area of acrimony has surrounded older higher earners being moved on: Gallacher, Dargo, Potter, Murray and Mair all left with a fair amount of acrimony behind the scenes supposedly but I think on balance DL got most of those calls spot on.

Most of DL's so called turkeys have been younger, lower league punts and loan deals / short term contracts.

You missed out the one we were waiting for, Bahookie.

Sorry but the biggest gamble would be to give Danny another contract. Look at the mess we are in with the number of players going out the door. I am worried about the state we find ourselves in relation the number of players out of contract. The squad needs an overhaul and could Danny do it? Personally I don't think so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You missed out the one we were waiting for, Bahookie.

Sorry but the biggest gamble would be to give Danny another contract. Look at the mess we are in with the number of players going out the door. I am worried about the state we find ourselves in relation the number of players out of contract. The squad needs an overhaul and could Danny do it? Personally I don't think so.

This is the situation for us every season, regardless of who is the manager, due to us only being able to offer 1 or 2 yr deals.

Can't expect Danny to deal with out of contract players when he himself is out of contract.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for they stats mate. I think it tells a story that he has enjoyed1 maybe 2 years extra on what he should have served.

Lets not forget we were 1 game from 10th this season which without Rangers and a dying Hearts is still quite a poor season.

The signing policy for me is the nail in the coffin. We have a defence that could operate without any issue in div 1 but not the premiership. I cant seem to get it out my head that the reason for this was upstairs influence for obv reasons. Then there is djemba, bahoken, caprice, campbell etc etc.

I would like to think that a team on a par with the like of QOS, Alloa or even M*rt*n could be a good level for Danny to do what he does best. Work with youth and try and teach the passing game. I think he would be an asset to a big club even in the EPL in a youth development role.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...