The Future`s Bright !

[Lord Pityme]

How many of those boys who have gone for free are playing in the English Premiership today, or abroad, or feature in our full Scotland squad? How many have moved on for free, impressed at their new club and now play at a higher level? As for McLean, he's just had a whole summer where clubs interested in him could have got him for free and yet he's back at St Mirren and he's meant to be the best the club have produced.

BTW I'm not criticising David Longwell - I don't know him well enough to do that and he's certainly never put my nose out of joint like Drew was suggesting earlier. Indeed the only time I ever dealt with David I thought he made a great deal of sense and that he was a pleasure to talk to. But there is something wrong whether it's down to the scouting network, whether it's down to the coaches, or whether there is some other influencing factor the Academy should have been producing better results than it has done to date.

This thread started with a proud boast about how St Mirren had the third best academy facilities in Scotland - that's great - but why are Hamilton Accies, Falkirk, Dundee United, Livingston, and Airdrie producing more in sell-able assets? Why are Hutchison Vale and Mill United more likely to produce Scotland Internationalists?

With the exception last season of Dundee Utd.... Why are most of your examples shit?

[Magic Monkey]

Only on B&WA could someone start a thread called 'The Future's Bright', only to have a load of folk shout back "Naw it's no'!"

[shull]

Its rhyming slang and he's wrang.

We have a bright future.

[madball]

How many of those boys who have gone for free are playing in the English Premiership today, or abroad, or feature in our full Scotland squad? How many have moved on for free, impressed at their new club and now play at a higher level? As for McLean, he's just had a whole summer where clubs interested in him could have got him for free and yet he's back at St Mirren and he's meant to be the best the club have produced.

BTW I'm not criticising David Longwell - I don't know him well enough to do that and he's certainly never put my nose out of joint like Drew was suggesting earlier. Indeed the only time I ever dealt with David I thought he made a great deal of sense and that he was a pleasure to talk to. But there is something wrong whether it's down to the scouting network, whether it's down to the coaches, or whether there is some other influencing factor the Academy should have been producing better results than it has done to date.

This thread started with a proud boast about how St Mirren had the third best academy facilities in Scotland - that's great - but why are Hamilton Accies, Falkirk, Dundee United, Livingston, and Airdrie producing more in sell-able assets? Why are Hutchison Vale and Mill United more likely to produce Scotland Internationalists?

for me the biggest failing is outside of the remit of Longwell and his coaches and scouts. It lies at the feet of the board and the managers (upto and including Danny Lennon - for the first half of his time) who have not brought through enough youngsters into the first team and went with experienced pros. This will have made the club a harder sell to parents of prospective players about opportunities they would have for their sons to make the breakthrough , and this would have led us to having less highly thought of players being signed as we weren't interesting the better players. It became self perpetuating, lesser quality talent being signed, resulting in less players making the breakthrough, which makes the club less attractive.

I think that whilst it is disappointing we've not secured good money, yet, for Mclean or McGinn, I think it is the the beginning of us having sellable players and clubs are going to treat us with caution until we've sold on a few (even if it is for relatively modest amounts). Once we can start transitioning players through every season and sell some on then I think we'll see greater returns.

Edited July 9, 2014 by madball

[flyingscot]

The key thing for Saints will be producing youngsters capable of playing first team football. In that regard we are starting to do well. Kelly, Naismith, McLean, McGinn from last year. We haven't exactly produced world beaters, nor have we been able to get money for many but if you can keep getting boys into the first team that are decent then that is half the battle. St Mirren's facilities should help with the development and recruitment of the next lot.

The Scottish Youth setup seems to me to be distorted by the OF. They hoover up a lot of the talent- Hamilton lost a goalkeeper to Celtic because he was a fan. I know of a player who moved to Rangers for same reasons. The OF of course rarely play them, stifle their development and most are cut adrift at 18/21. I think a lot of parents now realise this, although if a kid supports Rangers/Celtic can be hard to convince them to go to Hamilton/St Mirren etc. In Scotland's last competitive game I think only 2 players had come through OF youth academies in the 11- McGregor and Hutton?

Comparing youth set-ups is difficult. I don't think there is a magic bullet, often it seems a bit feast and famine. Hibs for example were held up as the pinnacle back a decade ago with Whittaker, Brown, Fletcher, Riorden, O'Conner, but now...?

[Vambo57]

Route one... is for bums

Ah'll get me coat now...

[Vambo57]

Only on B&WA could someone start a thread called 'The Future's Bright', only to have a load of folk shout back "Naw it's no'!"

"NAW I'TS NO'!"

[Stuart Dickson]

for me the biggest failing is outside of the remit of Longwell and his coaches and scouts. It lies at the feet of the board and the managers (upto and including Danny Lennon - for the first half of his time) who have not brought through enough youngsters into the first team and went with experienced pros. This will have made the club a harder sell to parents of prospective players about opportunities they would have for their sons to make the breakthrough , and this would have led us to having less highly thought of players being signed as we weren't interesting the better players. It became self perpetuating, lesser quality talent being signed, resulting in less players making the breakthrough, which makes the club less attractive.

I think that whilst it is disappointing we've not secured good money, yet, for Mclean or McGinn, I think it is the the beginning of us having sellable players and clubs are going to treat us with caution until we've sold on a few (even if it is for relatively modest amounts). Once we can start transitioning players through every season and sell some on then I think we'll see greater returns.

If that was the problem then surely there would be a large number of discarded ex Saints playing at a higher level but to my knowledge that hasn't happened as of yet. To me it looks more likely that the problem lies in the scouting and recruitment of players in the first place. To back that up just look at the successes St Mirren used to have with youth players when the likes of Joe Hughes was at the club, and compare it to the 15ish years since.

In 8 years of involvement at Juvenile Level in Lanarkshire I've never come across a St Mirren scout. I've met loads from Clyde, Hamilton, Albion Rovers, Alloa, Stenhousemuir, Dunfermline, Airdrie, Queens Park and Morton - we've even had scouts from Sunderland, Newcastle and Manchester City, but no-one from Paisley. Of all the kids who left Wishaw Wycombe in all age groups for pro youth clubs the only ones that were ever linked with St Mirren were the four I contacted David Longwell about. Perhaps St Mirren are just avoiding the Lanarkshire Development Leagues - something that would be a bit bizarre given it covers places as local as East Kilbride and Castlemilk - or perhaps they just stay well away from Wishaw - but if they haven't got any knowledge of youth players in neighbouring regions they have to be severely restricting their recruitment pool.

David Longwell once told me that he only had three scouts at the club. When I posted that on here ID rubbished that and said St Mirren had plenty of scouts. Maybe the club does and the problem really does lie elsewhere, but either way there clearly has been a problem over the years.

[shull]

Vambo, whit's keeping you getting yir coat ?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Can't get my head round the critics on this thread the people running the club more than most would love to see millions coming through the door. That would lead the club not being for sale I would think. From the videos the under 20s are being coached the right way. Hold on to the ball make space and go for goal it's how it's done on the continent and why they have much more success than we do at international level. Keep up the great work.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Isle Of Bute Saint

[Stuart Dickson]

Can't get my head round the critics on this thread the people running the club more than most would love to see millions coming through the door. That would lead the club not being for sale I would think. From the videos the under 20s are being coached the right way. Hold on to the ball make space and go for goal it's how it's done on the continent and why they have much more success than we do at international level. Keep up the great work.

So why isn't it happening? Apparently the third best youth facility in Scotland and it's produced nothing of any cash value. If the people running the club want £millions in through transfers then surely they have to be asking the same questions.

Criticism is only natural. The Academy should be self funding but fans are always asked to dig deep. Something isn't working and I think it's only right that questions be asked, especially since the academy is courting PR

[Isabella Duke]

doesn't mean its not producing, who would you suggest we get in? Some hoofball merchant who undoes all the hard work Longwell and his coaches have done in producing these players. its not his fault we don't get transfer fees its the fact players are going for free and we don't even get development fees just wait till mcginn and mclean and both kelly and naismith are wanted by teams willing to pay. then you will see the benefit of a good youth system and its not all just about transfer fees either its about having players in the first team and wee have 5 and we are darn lucky to have the ones we do.

its not longwell's fault that he hasn't unearthed any players that would attract a transfer fee?

did i just read that right? Wow.

we need to get in a proper coach who has actually played professional football. He cant attract the best young players.

he's been in charge for a decade now and the number of stars he has unearthed is poor.

he's a cheap option as are all his clueless wee boy coaches.

we need a total clear out of the youth system and longwell should go asap.

[windae cleaner]

If that was the problem then surely there would be a large number of discarded ex Saints playing at a higher level but to my knowledge that hasn't happened as of yet. To me it looks more likely that the problem lies in the scouting and recruitment of players in the first place. To back that up just look at the successes St Mirren used to have with youth players when the likes of Joe Hughes was at the club, and compare it to the 15ish years since.

In 8 years of involvement at Juvenile Level in Lanarkshire I've never come across a St Mirren scout. I've met loads from Clyde, Hamilton, Albion Rovers, Alloa, Stenhousemuir, Dunfermline, Airdrie, Queens Park and Morton - we've even had scouts from Sunderland, Newcastle and Manchester City, but no-one from Paisley. Of all the kids who left Wishaw Wycombe in all age groups for pro youth clubs the only ones that were ever linked with St Mirren were the four I contacted David Longwell about. Perhaps St Mirren are just avoiding the Lanarkshire Development Leagues - something that would be a bit bizarre given it covers places as local as East Kilbride and Castlemilk - or perhaps they just stay well away from Wishaw - but if they haven't got any knowledge of youth players in neighbouring regions they have to be severely restricting their recruitment pool.

David Longwell once told me that he only had three scouts at the club. When I posted that on here ID rubbished that and said St Mirren had plenty of scouts. Maybe the club does and the problem really does lie elsewhere, but either way there clearly has been a problem over the years.

Believe or not i'm going to agree with you.

Last season they did advertise for Scouts on the Offical website the first time ever.

I have been involved in Youth Fitba for many years i yet to come across a Scout from St Mirren but i have been approached by many other teams

I think at the moment they go by fans who recomend players to their coaches and take it from there for younger ones

In the older teams it seems players cast offs from the old firm

I think Longwell has done a decent job so far and he will make a lot of ememies through the years due to disappointed parents

[Girdiorn boy]

its not longwell's fault that he hasn't unearthed any players that would attract a transfer fee?

did i just read that right? Wow.

we need to get in a proper coach who has actually played professional football. He cant attract the best young players.

he's been in charge for a decade now and the number of stars he has unearthed is poor.

he's a cheap option as are all his clueless wee boy coaches.

we need a total clear out of the youth system and longwell should go asap.

who would you like us to bring in then?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

who would you like us to bring in then?

the captain is right you know look at the Chelsea manager he has so many medals as a top player at the highest level ! These critics are probably back seat drivers who know everything but never passed a test. It's not the youth coach who makes up the contracts. There has been a few gems came through the ranks in recent years. Everyone knows this was one of Gus"es weak points , meaning giving youth a chance.

[Stuart Dickson]

the captain is right you know look at the Chelsea manager he has so many medals as a top player at the highest level ! These critics are probably back seat drivers who know everything but never passed a test. It's not the youth coach who makes up the contracts. There has been a few gems came through the ranks in recent years. Everyone knows this was one of Gus"es weak points , meaning giving youth a chance.

Who are these gems that didn't get their chance under McPherson and landed up advancing their career IOBS? I keep asking but no-one so far has provided any names.

[TopCat]

I think our youth academy was poor in the McPherson era, and the players produced reflected that. Our move to our new facility raised the barrier in all aspects of youth development, hence a better quality of player is being produced. We are currently reaping the rewards of the investment into Ralston.

5 of our first choice starting 11 last season were academy graduates, did any other club at our level have such a high ratio? What these lads will go on to achieve, only time will tell. For now they are established first team players for us, and that's all that concerns me really.

Edited July 9, 2014 by TopCat

[pod]

Who are these gems that didn't get their chance under McPherson and landed up advancing their career IOBS? I keep asking but no-one so far has provided any names.

Nobodies listening.

[shull]

Nobodies listening.

Eh !

[pod]

Eh !

Anybody there

[shull]

Anybody there

.

[pod]

.

The Future's Bright as is Black and White.

[shull]

panda.jpg

The Future's Bright as is Black and White.

Disnae look very bright

[pod]

Disnae look very bright

He's tired. Hard job reading this forum.

[shull]

2500 Season Tickets have now been sold.

100 more than last season at this time.

Well done all.