Why So Much Negativity ?

[Callum Gilhooley]

If Brian is frustrated at forum negativity, do you know Div, if that extends to stuff like criticism of the strips, AWP leaving (again), or suchlike, or is it purely frustration at some forum bawbags having a pop at every signing we make, even before a ball has been kicked in anger.

what , like this ?

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/topic/38258-20142015-home-strip/page-8

but sales are the broadly the same as last year !

Yeah Right !

[Rabinho]

Being honest, I don't think this negativity is purely exclusive to St Mirren related boards.

You only have to scan through twitter or Facebook these days to see the amount of negative rubbish that is posted relating to football clubs and their attempts to stay afloat whilst still pleasing fans.

The reason I joined this forum was to keep abreast of team news, potential signings as well as have a bit of banter with fellow fans.

Sadly the amount of negative drivel on here really makes it hard to read at times, the numerous fake accounts trolling the same crap don't make it easy either.

Not everyone agrees with board or management decisions all the time which gives rise to some lively debate but supporters are meant to support their team.

[div]

I'm actually in despair at some of the comments that have been posted at the end of this article;

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/news-archives/matchday-news-reports/2010-pre-season-latest

Apparently the board need to take action to get us out of "the relegation mire" despite the season not having begun, whilst we shouldn't be pursuing Callum "Bell" because one of the lads hasn't heard of him.

These are the clowns that are supposed to be on our side FFS !

[faraway saint]

I'm actually in despair at some of the comments that have been posted at the end of this article;

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/news-archives/matchday-news-reports/2010-pre-season-latest

Apparently the board need to take action to get us out of "the relegation mire" despite the season not having begun, whilst we shouldn't be pursuing Callum "Bell" because one of the lads hasn't heard of him.

These are the clowns that are supposed to be on our side FFS !

I'm surprised you're so surprised?

[Big_Mougie]

I'm actually in despair at some of the comments that have been posted at the end of this article;

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/news-archives/matchday-news-reports/2010-pre-season-latest

Apparently the board need to take action to get us out of "the relegation mire" despite the season not having begun, whilst we shouldn't be pursuing Callum "Bell" because one of the lads hasn't heard of him.

These are the clowns that are supposed to be on our side FFS !

Its shocking. I could understand if we were on a 10 game losing run but the seasons not even started yet. Will be the same usual suspects that we all know. Ive got most on ignore however people still quote them so I see their nonsense. Makes the forum a worse place. I'm defo not a happy clapper and like a good debate but these people dont even have an arguement.

[faraway saint]

Who's the numpty that says this is our 6th season in the top flight?

[ss39Lavety]

OK, I'll stick my head above the parapet and expect to attract some bullets.

This season we have Rangers, Hearts and Hibs in a lower division. By my reckoning there are maybe only 6 sides in our division with larger average fanbases, Celtic, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Dundee, Motherwell and Killie. Also we have, as far as I understand, next to zero debt and a marvellous training facility. Maybe even a terrific crop of youngsters in there as well due to our club's commitment to youth development.

So I think it is a no-brainer that St Mirren's fans ought to expect the team to finish higher in the league than Partick, Hamilton, St Johnstone, ICT and Ross County. Yet for some reason there are a bunch of Happy Clappers content if we avoid relegation, even if do we finish below ICT, Ross County, etc. Fans have a right to feel short-changed when we look at the league table and see these teams above us.

I understand we are not a 'big' club but every season seems to bring along too many disappointing defeats to 'inferior' opposition, too many no-shows on the park, too many games with negative tactics, and too many miserable Saturday evenings. Mid-table is where I believe we ought to be this season and I'll be happy with that.

Agree with this all day long.

I would actually go one further...Euro League qualification and/or the big cup should be firmly in our sights this year. The likes of Ross County, St. Johnstone, Motherwell, Inverness CT have all found themselves at the top end of the table in recent years and there is no reason not to expect the same for SMFC.

Tommy Craig has been there a good while...and while I still think that if he had anything truly positive and different to contribute to the setup he should have done so by now in his role as assistant...now that he is in charge however he has no excuse not to hit the ground running...the club are well structured in relation to the teams around us, the acute composition of the league this year means that there are at least 6 teams we SHOULD be beating home and away...if we struggle in the relegation zone...again...it will be majorly disappointing.

Euro League qualification or the big cup...or at least a proper attempt at both, I think that truly is a reasonable expectation.

[nedflanders123]

Agree with this all day long.

I would actually go one further...Euro League qualification and/or the big cup should be firmly in our sights this year. The likes of Ross County, St. Johnstone, Motherwell, Inverness CT have all found themselves at the top end of the table in recent years and there is no reason not to expect the same for SMFC.

Tommy Craig has been there a good while...and while I still think that if he had anything truly positive and different to contribute to the setup he should have done so by now in his role as assistant...now that he is in charge however he has no excuse not to hit the ground running...the club are well structured in relation to the teams around us, the acute composition of the league this year means that there are at least 6 teams we SHOULD be beating home and away...if we struggle in the relegation zone...again...it will be majorly disappointing.

Euro League qualification or the big cup...or at least a proper attempt at both, I think that truly is a reasonable expectation.

What gives us the right to beat 6 of the clubs or as you say "should beat".? Our budget dictates the quality of player and most clubs will offer more than we can (despite putting themselves into financial difficulty). Perhaps in due course our youth development will produce good players but then the key problem is keeping them. Maybe we will all be pleasantly surprised this season. As for expecting to beat teams or should beat teams, that is generally for old firm fans.

[buddiecat]

Was speaking to Brian Caldwell today (update in the Q&A section) and he is certainly feeling very frustrated at some of the overwhelming negativity on the forum at the moment.

He's pointed out (again) that potential new recruits do look at fans messageboards and the like when weighing up their options. It can put players off when they see an overwhelming negative reaction etc..

That can extend from the first team right down to the youth team who are trying to recruit the best young talent to come and join.

Nobody is expecting the place to be full of sweetness and light all the time but at the same time it does appear that some posters are hell bent on putting a negative slant on everything the club does.

I can't and won't ban moaners, it is after all supposed to be an area of free speech but I'd ask each of you to take a moment to think before posting.

If your post is potentially going to harm the club then is it really worth it ?

By all means express an opinion good or bad, but don't stoop to personal abuse and try to celebrate the positives sometimes rather than just the negatives.

have a wee word with brian about the lack of communication over the postponed aberdeen game, "the match at pittodrie has been postponed" is simply not good enough, i hate the negs who jump on new players as much as anyone but they are in a minority,just unfortunately they are the ones who want to spew their bile online because it's the only place where anyone will pay attention to them

[ss39Lavety]

What gives us the right to beat 6 of the clubs or as you say "should beat".? Our budget dictates the quality of player and most clubs will offer more than we can (despite putting themselves into financial difficulty). Perhaps in due course our youth development will produce good players but then the key problem is keeping them. Maybe we will all be pleasantly surprised this season. As for expecting to beat teams or should beat teams, that is generally for old firm fans.

SMFC youth development already IS producing a decent level of player (by SPFL standard). More importantly, I would say that the majority of SMFC fans will be bitterly disappointed if they finish bottom 6, thus there is already a default position that at least 6 teams are there for the taking, or to an extent SHOULD be, and rightly so!

You are correct that really decent youth players will find themselves elsewhere in super quick time, at the moment though we have a decent squad in relation to the teams around us, if our youngsters are to move away to better things then I would imagine a lot more than another relegation battle will suffice. The league is a very poor one this year, and I don't think we should accept the same old position of being happy to avoid the drop, this season it simply is not good enough, for supporters or for the youngsters in the squad who fancy their chances of making it elsewhere.

Furthermore, I would hardly say that only the ugly sisters should expect their teams to do well, SMFC are not a newly promoted side with no top flight experience, there are a lot of smaller clubs (in terms of fan base and overall pedigree) around us, and the fact that teams are generally financially worse off does not necessarily equate to them being more acutely financially capable with regards buying players, don't see a lot of players signing up elsewhere that really makes me worry for SMFC.

I think overall SMFC have a decent squad (for the SPFL) a decent composition in terms of age, decent structure as a club, a better stadium than most and I absolutely see no reason why it shouldn't translate to a successful campaign.

Euro league and/or the big cup.

Edited July 29, 2014 by ss39Lavety

[David Mc]

I remember someone commenting after Higdon scored a perfect hat-trick against Hamilton......

"well it was only Hamilton - he does not do much else does he? He hardly runs about and looks over weight" - FFS the guy just scored a match winning hat trick.

Even after we beat Celtic and then Hearts in the League Cup, you had some people saying that "well it's only a diddy cup. Plus Hearts were crap and had lost a lot of players...."

In 87 when we beat United who were in the UEFA cup final and had beaten Barcelona and Borussia Monchengladbach enroute people would have no doubt have said - "but we never had to play Rangers or Celtic...." -

Sadly no matter how good things are some people are only happy when they are complaining.

They must all be Smith fans......heaven knows they are miserable cnuts........

To be fair United had played so many games Eamonn Bannon could hardly walk by the end. On second thoughts f*ck it we hammered them!!

[shull]

SMFC youth development already IS producing a decent level of player (by SPFL standard). More importantly, I would say that the majority of SMFC fans will be bitterly disappointed if they finish bottom 6, thus there is already a default position that at least 6 teams are there for the taking, or to an extent SHOULD be, and rightly so!

You are correct that really decent youth players will find themselves elsewhere in super quick time, at the moment though we have a decent squad in relation to the teams around us, if our youngsters are to move away to better things then I would imagine a lot more than another relegation battle will suffice. The league is a very poor one this year, and I don't think we should accept the same old position of being happy to avoid the drop, this season it simply is not good enough, for supporters or for the youngsters in the squad who fancy their chances of making it elsewhere.

Furthermore, I would hardly say that only the ugly sisters should expect their teams to do well, SMFC are not a newly promoted side with no top flight experience, there are a lot of smaller clubs (in terms of fan base and overall pedigree) around us, and the fact that teams are generally financially worse off does not necessarily equate to them being more acutely financially capable with regards buying players, don't see a lot of players signing up elsewhere that really makes me worry for SMFC.

I think overall SMFC have a decent squad (for the SPFL) a decent composition in terms of age, decent structure as a club, a better stadium than most and I absolutely see no reason why it shouldn't translate to a successful campaign.

Euro league and/or the big cup.

Which Division ?

[Lord Pityme]

Was speaking to Brian Caldwell today (update in the Q&A section) and he is certainly feeling very frustrated at some of the overwhelming negativity on the forum at the moment.

He's pointed out (again) that potential new recruits do look at fans messageboards and the like when weighing up their options. It can put players off when they see an overwhelming negative reaction etc..

That can extend from the first team right down to the youth team who are trying to recruit the best young talent to come and join.

Nobody is expecting the place to be full of sweetness and light all the time but at the same time it does appear that some posters are hell bent on putting a negative slant on everything the club does.

I can't and won't ban moaners, it is after all supposed to be an area of free speech but I'd ask each of you to take a moment to think before posting.

If your post is potentially going to harm the club then is it really worth it ?

By all means express an opinion good or bad, but don't stoop to personal abuse and try to celebrate the positives sometimes rather than just the negatives.

he could like , you know... do what most sensible people do and not read the guff???

That said the personal abuse on here has gone largely unchecked for so long the perps just keep, keeping on with it under whatever user name they fancy.

Re: the bit in bold... Gary Harkins obviously didnae drop by to catch up with the crack on BAWA very often?

Edited July 29, 2014 by Lord Pityme

[ss39Lavety]

Which Division ?

All the divisions, the whole SPFL. That is not to say SMFC wouldn't struggle in the championship, any Premiership side might struggle in the Championship actually, there is not a great deal of transitivity across the leagues in the SPFL, the SMFC squad is definitely not inferior to the opposition they are up against in terms of going for a Euro League berth however.

Edited July 29, 2014 by ss39Lavety

[BuddieinEK]

I'm bemused... this truly is a unique thread... ...

a whole lot of people criticising people on a public discussion forum for being critical on a public discussion forum!!!

Am I the only one who finds the irony hilarious?

I make critical comments and observations when I feel it is appropriate... I praise the club and players when appropriate.

I most certainly do not agree with everyone and often disagree with the majority... ...

but it is a DISCUSSION FORUM!

If you can't take the criticism then the answer is simple... shut the bloody thing down to protect the sensitive souls in society who are offended! As for Brian and the players... I tend NOT to publically criticise players... but surely they are subjected to negativity at games? If they are affected by online ramblings then they need to get a life!

Last week I was subjected to death threats, abuse and vitriol from fans of THE Rangers FC online... ... incredibly, I have managed to hold back the tears and am not too badly scarred as a result!!!

A whole lot of people criticising people on a public discussion forum for being critical on a public discussion forum!!!

[shull]

I'm bemused... this truly is a unique thread... ...

a whole lot of people criticising people on a public discussion forum for being critical on a public discussion forum!!!

Am I the only one who finds the irony hilarious?

I make critical comments and observations when I feel it is appropriate... I praise the club and players when appropriate.

I most certainly do not agree with everyone and often disagree with the majority... ...

but it is a DISCUSSION FORUM!

If you can't take the criticism then the answer is simple... shut the bloody thing down to protect the sensitive souls in society who are offended! As for Brian and the players... I tend NOT to publically criticise players... but surely they are subjected to negativity at games? If they are affected by online ramblings then they need to get a life!

Last week I was subjected to death threats, abuse and vitriol from fans of THE Rangers FC online... ... incredibly, I have managed to hold back the tears and am not too badly scarred as a result!!!

A whole lot of people criticising people on a public discussion forum for being critical on a public discussion forum!!!

Shut Yir hole ye f***** bozzer

[BuddieinEK]

Shut Yir hole ye f***** bozzer

reported... you violated me and made me cry... ... and you were somewhat negative in your WOOF (slipped that in there) tone FIRST WORD (round ye!)

[pod]

I'm bemused... this truly is a unique thread... ...

a whole lot of people criticising people on a public discussion forum for being critical on a public discussion forum!!!

Am I the only one who finds the irony hilarious?

I make critical comments and observations when I feel it is appropriate... I praise the club and players when appropriate.

I most certainly do not agree with everyone and often disagree with the majority... ...

but it is a DISCUSSION FORUM!

If you can't take the criticism then the answer is simple... shut the bloody thing down to protect the sensitive souls in society who are offended! As for Brian and the players... I tend NOT to publically criticise players... but surely they are subjected to negativity at games? If they are affected by online ramblings then they need to get a life!

Last week I was subjected to death threats, abuse and vitriol from fans of THE Rangers FC online... ... incredibly, I have managed to hold back the tears and am not too badly scarred as a result!!!

A whole lot of people criticising people on a public discussion forum for being critical on a public discussion forum!!!

Shut the bloody thing down.

[oaksoft]

there are at least 6 teams we SHOULD be beating home and away...if we struggle in the relegation zone...again...it will be majorly disappointing.

I'm all for ambition and we should certainly be TRYING to win every single game - not just the games you're talking about but what you are saying is a cracking example of how to set ridiculous expectations which can only be dashed.

Are your trying to ensure next season is a slog for you?

Only OF supporters talk about SHOULD wins.

No other team has any right whatsoever to spout stuff like that when we're all sharing roughly the same budgets.

We SHOULD be able to seriously compete with virtually all teams home and away but "should win"? Nah.

[ss39Lavety]

I'm all for ambition and we should certainly be TRYING to win every single game - not just the games you're talking about but what you are saying is a cracking example of how to set ridiculous expectations which can only be dashed.

Are your trying to ensure next season is a slog for you?

Only OF supporters talk about SHOULD wins.

No other team has any right whatsoever to spout stuff like that when we're all sharing roughly the same budgets.

We SHOULD be able to seriously compete with virtually all teams home and away but "should win"? Nah.

I've already mentioned that I think there is very little transitivity amongst ALL the teams in the SPFL, and I think I will hardly be surprised if it turns out to be a regular old relegation battle. I have never voiced anything like the opinion that SMFC are in any way superior...I think you misunderstand my "should" statement as blind arrogance...which is not the case at all, I simply think that given the fact we have seen Ross County, St. Johnstone, Motherwell and Inverness CT occupy high positions in the league in recent years...there is absolutely no reason not to expect that the same is not possible for SMFC...

I don't see the problem with expecting a top flight club who have been there quite some time in relation to the sides around them, being expected to beat the likes of Hamilton, Partick Thistle and Ross County, yes they will be tight games, of course they will be tight...but they really probably should be beating them at least most of the time...

For the record...my opinion is more objective than you might think, I don't really care if SMFC do find themselves in the Championship next season...I go watch them as they are the local team (hence my use of "we") however I watch them as a neutral, no black and white tinted specs etc...I simply think that they are the best placed team this season to go and do something relatively major, given that the league is quite a weak one and composed of sides that I do expect SMFC to beat...

I actually find it's strange that you take exception to an opinion that SMFC are possibly one of the better sides in the poorest Scottish top flight in a very, very long time...as if not being able to use the powers of small club mentality should disrupt you somehow.

Should Hamilton, Ross County, Inverness CT or St. Johnstone finish 2nd or 3rd I'm quite sure a lot of SMFC fans will feel that it ought to have been them, and I think they would be correct. The position as you say it seems to be that as long as they try really hard and manage to slug it out in the bottom end of a relatively weak Premiership and avoid relegation that everything is as it should be...I find it hard to believe that a lot of SMFC will buy that...again, and again.

I also want to clear up my dislike for the ugly sisters...I hate them...I hate both of them equally and I have a seething hatred for all the scummy quasi-religios bulls**t that a large contingent of their fans demand that we listen to...hate them all.

Edited July 30, 2014 by ss39Lavety

[pod]

I've already mentioned that I think there is very little transitivity amongst ALL the teams in the SPFL, and I think I will hardly be surprised if it turns out to be a regular old relegation battle. I have never voiced anything like the opinion that SMFC are in any way superior...I think you misunderstand my "should" statement as blind arrogance...which is not the case at all, I simply think that given the fact we have seen Ross County, St. Johnstone, Motherwell and Inverness CT occupy high positions in the league in recent years...there is absolutely no reason not to expect that the same is not possible for SMFC...

I don't see the problem with expecting a top flight club who have been there quite some time in relation to the sides around them, being expected to beat the likes of Hamilton, Partick Thistle and Ross County, yes they will be tight games, of course they will be tight...but they really probably should be beating them at least most of the time...

For the record...my opinion is more objective than you might think, I don't really care if SMFC do find themselves in the Championship next season...I go watch them as they are the local team (hence my use of "we") however I watch them as a neutral, no black and white tinted specs etc...I simply think that they are the best placed team this season to go and do something relatively major, given that the league is quite a weak one and composed of sides that I do expect SMFC to beat...

I actually find it's strange that you take exception to an opinion that SMFC are possibly one of the better sides in the poorest Scottish top flight in a very, very long time...as if not being able to use the powers of small club mentality should disrupt you somehow.

Should Hamilton, Ross County, Inverness CT or St. Johnstone finish 2nd or 3rd I'm quite sure a lot of SMFC fans will feel that it ought to have been them, and I think they would be correct. The position as you say it seems to be that as long as they try really hard and manage to slug it out in the bottom end of a relatively weak Premiership and avoid relegation that everything is as it should be...I find it hard to believe that a lot of SMFC will buy that...again, and again.

I also want to clear up my dislike for the ugly sisters...I hate them...I hate both of them equally and I have a seething hatred for all the scummy quasi-religios bulls**t that a large contingent of their fans demand that we listen to...hate them all.

I thought for a moment you were a St.Mirren fan.

[Phil McCracken]

a whole lot of people criticising people on a public discussion forum for being critical on a public discussion forum!!!

I'd like to take the opportunity to criticise you on this public forum for criticising the people on this public discussion forum who are critical of the people on this public discussion forum who are critical.

[ss39Lavety]

I thought for a moment you were a St.Mirren fan.

I happen to live in Paisley and be a massive football fan, as such SMFC receive ticket money from me each year, so I guess it depends on where you draw the line between supporter/fan/any other category of attendee.

A lot of St. Mirren "fans" at the league cup final I noticed...don't see more than 2/3 of them on any given Saturday when I go, the definition of fan is up for debate it would appear.

I would like to see them do well for a few reasons however, firstly because I would prefer to watch a decent side of course, and a lot of my family are SMFC fans, so personally I definitely like to see them turn up and play some decent stuff.

As a football club they probably are under-rated a lot of the time even by their own "fans". Being the only club from the biggest town in the UK gives them a certain stature, they are a proper club who are properly run with proper facilities and a proper outlook, which could have gone wrong if the deal for Love St. played out differently of course but as things stand they deserve kudos for manoeuvring themselves into a healthy position, they have a good base to work from is my point.

Yes they are a small club, with a small budget, and limited resources, however they play in a very small league, with a lot of other small clubs, with small resources and small budgets, and this season in particular they are surrounded by these sides with not a lot of exceptions, hence my rationale that the "we are just a tiny club in the big SPFL Premiership" position simply holds no currency.

As a club they are in a healthier position than a lot of others, and I don't see why this shouldn't translate to success, in particular this season.

As for matters on the pitch...I actually happen to think that the SMFC squad this year has more than enough about them to be up there challenging, they have some very decent youngsters with a solid season behind them as well as a few notable veterans, in relation to the majority of the league I make no apology for suggesting that they really ought to have a successful campaign...

I'm off now to go sit down and shut up for a bit since I've taken up some serious word count here fairly recently...

[BuddieinEK]

I'd like to take the opportunity to criticise you on this public forum for criticising the people on this public discussion forum who are critical of the people on this public discussion forum who are critical.

noted and criticism accepted as ... a/ it is appropriate and valid... b/ it made me laugh!

[BuddieinEK]

Imperative that we get off to a flyer.

COYS

That was my biggest criticism last season... we were simply nowhere near ready for the new season and effectively gave several teams a head start. Nothing to do with the results... more about the squad assembly.

Much better so far this season and I am a lot more optimistic as a result... even if I am still desperate to see us sign Scrapper Griswald from Melchester Rovers to play in defence!