Lord Pityme Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 As someone has already posted, if he's off to uni to pursue a long-term career path, other than football, then the club should assess what benefits there are to holding onto him (other than getting some compensation for the development of the lad).. It may be better to loan him out, or come to an agreement with him if he plays for any other team over the next 4 years they compensate Saints and that ends the furore. If after 4 years he wants to go back to football, having concentrated on his studies then that's his decision, he won't have much chance of making it big by the age of 23 or 24. Also, if what has been posted is true that he is heading off to do medicine, he will have no time to seriously train, or compete at any serious level for the next 5 years. The course is that demanding. Re: the last bit, makes you wonder why he is so determined to get released if he IS embarking upon a full time programme of medical studies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 So you agree it affects all youth players regardless of which club they are affiliated to! If the lad wanted to go play for Gleniffer or a similar club i dare say his registration would be cancelled, but in this case another club is attempting to lure a contracted and registerd player with the sole aim of avoiding payment of development fees. Now you are always banging on about how clubs wherever they play in whichever league should receive development fees when a youngster is poached. So you can't have your cake (although the scales may disagree) and eat it Dicko.... If the rules good enough for one its good enough for all! I have NEVER argued that juvenile clubs be paid development fees. You just made that shite up. And no, as I said it does not apply to juvenile clubs. If one of my players wants to leave and I don't want to release him, he can request that the SYFA release him, and they will so long as he has returned his kit and his dues are paid up to date. What I have always stated is that the pro youth set up fails Scottish Football and its failing our kids. The whole system needs a massive overhaul. These contracts pro youth kids are being asked to sign have dubious legality and theres a huge failing within the scouting and coaching infrastructure at these so called pro youth development clubs. In recent weeks we've had two lads tell their pro youth clubs they no longer wish to be with them and theyve returned to us. The reasons are varied but amongst them is the fact that the demands being made on these kids by their clubs is affecting their schooling. Personally speaking now if I knew what I know now Id have advised my players against going probyouth, and not for selfish reasons. One Head of Youth Development from a top SPFL side recently told me that out of the 270 odd kids they have on their books they KNOW that only 2 have a chance of making it. Perhaps the imposition of minimum wages in professional football will change this malpractice once and for all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 I don't think anyone could blame this boy for wanting to keep all his irons in the fire so to speak at this early stage in his life. I'm sure it is a dilema for any really clever boy that is also really good at football (or any other sport). He will be bright enough to know that the chances of being a real top pro footballer are slim but that chance is still there for him. In a sense he does want his cake and eat it as others have said but can anyone really blame him in his position. You can also see the clubs point in that we have developed the talent he is showing however there has to be a compromise somewhere as at the moment it's a turkey shoot in the press at our expense. With lawyers on the board why did it ever get to this stage - surely there must be a solution ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 As someone has already posted, if he's off to uni to pursue a long-term career path, other than football, then the club should assess what benefits there are to holding onto him (other than getting some compensation for the development of the lad).. It may be better to loan him out, or come to an agreement with him if he plays for any other team over the next 4 years they compensate Saints and that ends the furore. If after 4 years he wants to go back to football, having concentrated on his studies then that's his decision, he won't have much chance of making it big by the age of 23 or 24. Also, if what has been posted is true that he is heading off to do medicine, he will have no time to seriously train, or compete at any serious level for the next 5 years. The course is that demanding. In fairness it's no more demanding than any other course. It's almost impossible to do any degree well and also maintain a sports career. You really have to choose one or the other unless you do the course part time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 I don't think anyone could blame this boy for wanting to keep all his irons in the fire so to speak at this early stage in his life. I'm sure it is a dilema for any really clever boy that is also really good at football (or any other sport). He will be bright enough to know that the chances of being a real top pro footballer are slim but that chance is still there for him. In a sense he does want his cake and eat it as others have said but can anyone really blame him in his position. You can also see the clubs point in that we have developed the talent he is showing however there has to be a compromise somewhere as at the moment it's a turkey shoot in the press at our expense. With lawyers on the board why did it ever get to this stage - surely there must be a solution ? Agreed. Commonsense should have been applied here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Re: the last bit, makes you wonder why he is so determined to get released if he IS embarking upon a full time programme of medical studies? Was it not stated that he wanted to look into a part time gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 I don't think anyone could blame this boy for wanting to keep all his irons in the fire so to speak at this early stage in his life. I'm sure it is a dilema for any really clever boy that is also really good at football (or any other sport). He will be bright enough to know that the chances of being a real top pro footballer are slim but that chance is still there for him. In a sense he does want his cake and eat it as others have said but can anyone really blame him in his position. You can also see the clubs point in that we have developed the talent he is showing however there has to be a compromise somewhere as at the moment it's a turkey shoot in the press at our expense. With lawyers on the board why did it ever get to this stage - surely there must be a solution ? Nothing wrong with him wanting to keep all his irons in the fire, problem is he started a full time contract with saints in june, knowing he had done well in his exams and already had a provisional acceptance for uni. Some would take the view that he has taken a chance other kids wanted more than he did and shit all over it. He is now actively putting off other kids from coming to saints REDUCING the number of opportunities open to less fortunate youngsters. I hope he is never my doctor, that's for sure a classic case of a young man, no doubt spurred on by his family, signing up to something he was fully aware of but had no intention of honouring once he had got all the benefit he could from it-once it is down to him to make a few sacrifices and deliver for the people who have wasted scarce and precious resources on him he bales. Nasty wee boy with a very selfish attitude on this evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 I have NEVER argued that juvenile clubs be paid development fees. You just made that shite up. And no, as I said it does not apply to juvenile clubs. If one of my players wants to leave and I don't want to release him, he can request that the SYFA release him, and they will so long as he has returned his kit and his dues are paid up to date. What I have always stated is that the pro youth set up fails Scottish Football and its failing our kids. The whole system needs a massive overhaul. These contracts pro youth kids are being asked to sign have dubious legality and theres a huge failing within the scouting and coaching infrastructure at these so called pro youth development clubs. In recent weeks we've had two lads tell their pro youth clubs they no longer wish to be with them and theyve returned to us. The reasons are varied but amongst them is the fact that the demands being made on these kids by their clubs is affecting their schooling. Personally speaking now if I knew what I know now Id have advised my players against going probyouth, and not for selfish reasons. One Head of Youth Development from a top SPFL side recently told me that out of the 270 odd kids they have on their books they KNOW that only 2 have a chance of making it. Perhaps the imposition of minimum wages in professional football will change this malpractice once and for all So you release them when their (development fees) are met. Interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Was it not stated that he wanted to look into a part time gig. And that's the issue! Someone has tapped him. Up and doesn't want to cough up for ten years of development.... If he's studying in Edinburgh i'd put my money on Spartans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 So you release them when their (development fees) are met. Interesting! Nope. It costs a great deal more to run a juvenile football club than we take in through subs. The cost of the subs are published after they are agreed at an AGM. Players are only signed on agreement that they pay their subs. Players at juvenile clubs also sign amateur forms. At pro youth level claims for development compensation bear no resemblance to actually cost and indeed a side like Dundee United will receive more than enough in compensation for a single player to run their entire youth development programme for years. The fact you find it so hard to differentiate between the two speaks volumes about your relevance in this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Nope. It costs a great deal more to run a juvenile football club than we take in through subs. The cost of the subs are published after they are agreed at an AGM. Players are only signed on agreement that they pay their subs. Players at juvenile clubs also sign amateur forms. At pro youth level claims for development compensation bear no resemblance to actually cost and indeed a side like Dundee United will receive more than enough in compensation for a single player to run their entire youth development programme for years. The fact you find it so hard to differentiate between the two speaks volumes about your relevance in this topic. So what your saying is we are due compo for kierzo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 I wonder how many pages we'll get out of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 So what your saying is we are due compo for kierzo? Aw, you really are struggling. I won't mock, I'll just tilt my head to the side and look at you with the kind of pity I reserve for the most severely afflicted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 This thread is bringing out the weak and easily minded. Every thread created since 19th September, 2014 has turned into a shitfest where the "Yes" crowd have made themselves look like someone who'd start a fight in an empty ward house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McGarvey' wonky legs Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) If he has signed a professional contract and was contracted after the window shuts then technically even if his contract is cancelled then he cannot sign for another club until 1st Jan. Would that be correct? Edited October 9, 2014 by Frank McGarvey' wonky legs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 This thread is bringing out the weak and easily minded. Every thread created since 19th September, 2014 has turned into a shitfest where the "Yes" crowd have made themselves look like someone who'd start a fight in an empty ward house. Seem to me the NO voters on the forum bring it up at every turn. What has it got to do with this thread can't we drop it for once it's well played out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Seem to me the NO voters on the forum bring it up at every turn. What has it got to do with this thread can't we drop it for once it's well played out. I'd love for the whole thing to be "dropped" IOBS. Unfortunately though, I've encountered people I didn't previously have any issue with prior to the Referendum picking up on little things I post here and there and maybe even mistakes in a post I have made. Normally this wouldn't bother me but it's people who stamped their views all over this forum before the Referendum who are doing it and as has been pointed out by other forum members, there seems to be huge divide between people on here that I didn't even know existed before. I was told that a "No" vote would be respected and accepted graciously by any "Yes" supporters but it's been the exact opposite. If those people don't like it they shouldn't dish it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 I'd love for the whole thing to be "dropped" IOBS. Unfortunately though, I've encountered people I didn't previously have any issue with prior to the Referendum picking up on little things I post here and there and maybe even mistakes in a post I have made. Normally this wouldn't bother me but it's people who stamped their views all over this forum before the Referendum who are doing it and as has been pointed out by other forum members, there seems to be huge divide between people on here that I didn't even know existed before. I was told that a "No" vote would be respected and accepted graciously by any "Yes" supporters but it's been the exact opposite. If those people don't like it they shouldn't dish it out. Just as well no one keeps bringing up the referendum isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Aw, you really are struggling. I won't mock, I'll just tilt my head to the side and look at you with the kind of pity I reserve for the most severely afflicted I take my hat off to anyone who gives up their free time to coach, assist, develop, make tea, wash the strips, clear the dug shite aff pitches etc... Etc for youth football. It can be as thankless as it is hugely rewarding, and without these 'Local Heroes' it would never happen. Especially the ones who are modest and don't bang on incessantly about how many sacrifices they make, and if is wasn't for them showing leadership.... Etc...etc... Heres to the 'Local Heroes'.... You'll seldom hear them blowing their own trumpets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) This thread is bringing out the weak and easily minded. Every thread created since 19th September, 2014 has turned into a shitfest where the "Yes" crowd have made themselves look like someone who'd start a fight in an empty ward house. Why are you bringing up the referendum? As a yes voter I respect the no vote won. Does that mean I'll shut up about what I want from my country? Does it hell. Does it mean I'll stay quiet while we're dragged into another war? While we see the rise of UKIP which we were told was scaremongering? While the promises made about more powers become an elaborate hoax that many could plainly see it was? While the negatives of oil are turned into positives of oil again? While Human Rights are stripped from the people? While the NHS - which was in no danger according to the No Camp - is now in massive danger of privatisation? While Gordon Brown pleads for 100,000 to sign a petition for new powers, despite his guarantee that they would be forthcoming? I have plenty more that I could bring up, but I'll keep it for a thread which people would expect to see it posted on. If you want to bang on about the referendum and what a disastrous mistake the No vote seems to have been, start a thread devoted to it. Otherwise stick to the topic. That ok? Mods - feel free to delete this whenever you feel like it. Edited October 10, 2014 by Soctty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Why are you bringing up the referendum? As a yes voter I respect the no vote won. Does that mean I'll shut up about what I want from my country? Does it hell. Does it mean I'll stay quiet while we're dragged into another war? While we see the rise of UKIP which we were told was scaremongering? While the promises made about more powers become an elaborate hoax that many could plainly see it was? While the negatives of oil are turned into positives of oil again? While Human Rights are stripped from the people? While the NHS - which was in no danger according to the No Camp - is now in massive danger of privatisation? While Gordon Brown pleads for 100,000 to sign a petition for new powers, despite his guarantee that they would be forthcoming? I have plenty more that I could bring up, but I'll keep it for a thread which people would expect to see it posted on. If you want to bang on about the referendum and what a disastrous mistake the No vote seems to have been, start a thread devoted to it. Otherwise stick to the topic. That ok? Mods - feel free to delete this whenever you feel like it. Are you sure you haven't missed anything more about contract disputes, opts no, it's the referendum thing again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Why are you bringing up the referendum? As a yes voter I respect the no vote won. Does that mean I'll shut up about what I want from my country? Does it hell. Does it mean I'll stay quiet while we're dragged into another war? While we see the rise of UKIP which we were told was scaremongering? While the promises made about more powers become an elaborate hoax that many could plainly see it was? While the negatives of oil are turned into positives of oil again? While Human Rights are stripped from the people? While the NHS - which was in no danger according to the No Camp - is now in massive danger of privatisation? While Gordon Brown pleads for 100,000 to sign a petition for new powers, despite his guarantee that they would be forthcoming? I have plenty more that I could bring up, but I'll keep it for a thread which people would expect to see it posted on. If you want to bang on about the referendum and what a disastrous mistake the No vote seems to have been, start a thread devoted to it. Otherwise stick to the topic. That ok? Mods - feel free to delete this whenever you feel like it. Look..! see..! What you've re-started Kieran Doran..... I hole your happy with yourself young man turning a normally sanguine, thoughtful forum into a bear pit of slevering bile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Just as well no one keeps bringing up the referendum isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Why are you bringing up the referendum? As a yes voter I respect the no vote won. Does that mean I'll shut up about what I want from my country? Does it hell. Does it mean I'll stay quiet while we're dragged into another war? While we see the rise of UKIP which we were told was scaremongering? While the promises made about more powers become an elaborate hoax that many could plainly see it was? While the negatives of oil are turned into positives of oil again? While Human Rights are stripped from the people? While the NHS - which was in no danger according to the No Camp - is now in massive danger of privatisation? While Gordon Brown pleads for 100,000 to sign a petition for new powers, despite his guarantee that they would be forthcoming? I have plenty more that I could bring up, but I'll keep it for a thread which people would expect to see it posted on. If you want to bang on about the referendum and what a disastrous mistake the No vote seems to have been, start a thread devoted to it. Otherwise stick to the topic. That ok? Mods - feel free to delete this whenever you feel like it. FFS! Shooting fish in a barrel has never been easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 FFS! Shooting fish in a barrel has never been easier. On the contrary, you're giving people who might want to let off steam do it on an unrelated thread, because you've brought the subject up needlessly. Thanks for the opportunity to vent my frustrations without fear of being accused of being obsessed. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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