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Youngster In Contract Dispute


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Maybe it's a pissing contest to you - I haven't got the remotest interest in shite like that - all I ever do in threads like this is give legally accurate information based on my qualified expertise, which is exactly what I did. Others clearly have a chip on their shoulder and a misguided and incorrect interpretation of what they believe the laws are and how they work. People can take the correct information I give, or leave it, it's no skin off my nose - one thing I don't have is an ego. I think I demonstrated that in the referendum thread when I walked away after similar crap directed at me - just as I'm doing here and now.

So you've got no idea what is and isn't in this contract, or indeed the custom and practice which exists at every Scottish profesional fotball club in relation to youth players like the one discussed here..

You coild have saved a load of time at the outset and said "I don't know "

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I don't think St Mirren would make much money from compensation in this case since a major part of the compensation calculation would take into account wages + taxes paid during the "training" period and the reports claim that the player wasn't even being paid the £1 per week indicated in his contract.

Really?

Article 4 Training Costs

1 In order to calculate the compensation due for training and education costs, associations are instructed to divide their clubs into a maximum of four categories in accordance with the clubs’ fi nancial investment in training players. The training costs are set for each category and correspond to the amount needed to train one player for one year multiplied by an average "player factor", which is the ratio of players who need to be trained to produce one professional player.

2 The training costs, which are established on a confederation basis for each category of club, as well as the categorisation of clubs for each association, are published on the FIFA website (www.FIFA.com). They are updated at the end of every calendar year.

Article 5 Calculation of Training Compensation

1 As a general rule, to calculate the training compensation due to a player’s former club(s), it is necessary to take the costs that would have been incurred by the new club if it had trained the player itself.

2 Accordingly, the fi rst time a player registers as a professional, the training compensation payable is calculated by taking the training costs of the new club multiplied by the number of years of training, in principle from the season of the player’s 12th birthday to the season of his 21st birthday. In the case of subsequent transfers, training compensation is calculated based on the training costs of the new club multiplied by the number of years of training with the former club.

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Really?

Yeah David. I read that on the FIFA website then went to the FIFA categorisation for each individual association. You appear to have stopped short. The calculation also takes into account a ratio of how many players an association takes to get one to turn pro and theres a few other factors but the highest ratio is based on the amount paid in wages, bonuses and expenses hence why juvenile football clubs at Wishaw Wycombe level dont pursue compensation for developing players.

I would imagine that if this case ever went to a tribunal the fact that St Mirren have failed to pay the contracted amount would be enough to see this kid walk for free.

Theres more interesting and more informed people, particularly in the specifics of this case, than me posting on this thread. The only thing I would add is a few questions - at what age did Doran sign for St Mirren? Did he come with previous football experience or did he come directly off the street?

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I suspect the contract St Mirren have in place for players in their youth development programme will be a standard one used by most Scottish clubs who develop young players.

Developing young players is part of St Mirren,s business plan , which is to produce young players for the first team , and also hopefully produce players that can be sold on for a development fee.

Falkirk , are very good at this and have made substantial amounts of money ( I have heard £2 million ) , from selling on teenagers.

I think the whole issue is more than just the player concerned .

To survive , smaller clubs need to have a contract in place so that they are rewarded for the youngsters development . Without any sort of contractual agreement , parents and agents would just have young players just moving from one club to another for whatever reward they are able to get , and there just isn,t that kind of money in Scottish football.

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Every club in Scotland lives with the permanent fear of their better youth players being snapped up by one of the OF. Clubs can spend years developing players only to find that they move on. This can, and does happen at any age group.

If Kieran Doran wants to study and only play part-time, then I'm sure the club and the player's reps could reach some agreement. The tricky bit would be if the boy goes to a part-time club for a period and then pitches up at sizable Scottish Premiership or Championship club. I guess that this scenario is what St Mirren are trying to protect themselves against.

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Call me cynical but we have 2 posters on this thread who have just joined the forum in the last week and seem to have a huge amount of insider information.

You are completely correct. I used to be employed by the club for many years but I recently moved on however I am still in regular contact with people at the club and I know the boy personally having us both being part of the youth set up for many years.

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Nothing on the table again ? One is being as bad as the other here with the young boy smack in the middle , he is probably going on his fathers advice not his own. I'm on the clubs side here but the last part of your post really sounds petty and stubborn.

The club could do a 'good' PR job here by getting him out on loan and putting the clubs side of the story to the press. Holding back a young talent even an ill-advised one just seems wrong.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you on your belief that they are both as bad as each other - the club have been fully professional throughout this and have acted in a professional manner whereas the boy and his father have acted unethically and unprofessionally by going to the papers when various solutions to the problem have been proposed in the many meetings they have had with both the boy and his father.

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Completely agree - doing the loan deal would create a good image of the club in this particular case. It would suit all parties and if the club didn't do it simply out of what seems like spite they'd be risking it going to court where who knows what could happen. I think if anyone's giving him advice it's probably Willie Smith - I know Kieran is unaware of what seems to be his ulterior motives and therefore, even if you do think the boy has went down the wrong path in terms of the contract, it's not necessarily right to blame him or his father fully.

It is a shame that the boy ad his father were not thinking at all of the PR of the club when they decided to go to the papers which is a shame and despite what you say about not blaming him or his father fully they both need to be fully responsible for their actions especially the father as the boy will take direction from him as most boys would.

As for Willie Smith his influence with the boy worries me and I am surprised that the boys father was not fully aware of both his real intentions and the police investigation he is involved with through a coach at his club. If it is Kiaran's Dad's intentions to protect and get the best for his son as is the case with most fathers it is very surprising that he has allowed his son to become involved with such a character - I would go as far to say that instead of protecting him he has actually allowed him to be used as a pawn by a man with a very chequered history to say the least. I certainly wouldn't like any son of mine to be used in such a way.

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It is a shame that the boy ad his father were not thinking at all of the PR of the club when they decided to go to the papers which is a shame and despite what you say about not blaming him or his father fully they both need to be fully responsible for their actions especially the father as the boy will take direction from him as most boys would.

As for Willie Smith his influence with the boy worries me and I am surprised that the boys father was not fully aware of both his real intentions and the police investigation he is involved with through a coach at his club. If it is Kiaran's Dad's intentions to protect and get the best for his son as is the case with most fathers it is very surprising that he has allowed his son to become involved with such a character - I would go as far to say that instead of protecting him he has actually allowed him to be used as a pawn by a man with a very chequered history to say the least. I certainly wouldn't like any son of mine to be used in such a way.

As I say, it isn't common knowledge that Willie Smith is under investigation - i didn't know it and a few others ive spoken to didn't either, so I doubt the boy or his father would have known. And to essentially suggest the boy's dad is a bad father is certainly taking things too far. I understand your point about Willie Smith but I think that blame has to be directed towards him solely. Also, your point about Kieran and his father acting in an unethical manner is poor considering that in the 'business model' clubs work in, their practices aren't exactly pointed towards being ethical.
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I am sorry but I have to disagree with you on your belief that they are both as bad as each other - the club have been fully professional throughout this and have acted in a professional manner whereas the boy and his father have acted unethically and unprofessionally by going to the papers when various solutions to the problem have been proposed in the many meetings they have had with both the boy and his father.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you on your belief that they are both as bad as each other - the club have been fully professional throughout this and have acted in a professional manner whereas the boy and his father have acted unethically and unprofessionally by going to the papers when various solutions to the problem have been proposed in the many meetings they have had with both the boy and his father.

Let me put it another way then.

When a husband and wife get divorced you don't use the children against each other ( though some do )

Personally I don't think it's right , the best course of action from what I have read on this thread would be to send the boy out on loan that way the club hold on to his papers while the boy gets his football career back on track.

Holding this young lads papers and not allowing him to play seems childish ?

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You are completely correct. I used to be employed by the club for many years but I recently moved on however I am still in regular contact with people at the club and I know the boy personally having us both being part of the youth set up for many years.

You are completely correct. I used to be employed by the club for many years but I recently moved on however I am still in regular contact with people at the club and I know the boy personally having us both being part of the youth set up for many years.

How's life at mortonwhistling.gif

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As with all disputes, or disagreements, there is ultimately some kind of a solution and it very much depends on both sides giving ground and conceding some element of principled ideals.

This issue can be sorted and what I find incredible is that the issue even on this forum has now stretched to 10 pages (yes a certain poster from Lanarkshire has become involved in the process!bangin.gif )

Anyway, as now several have posted, find a way of ensuring that the club aren't being ripped off and release the boy to go and do his studies and play footie at some appropriate level if that's what he wants to do. By the looks of things we won't be getting him back at SM Park at any time in the near future!

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